I welcome the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, Ms Elizabeth Cannon, assistant secretary, Ms Mary McLoughlin, principal officer, Mr. John Lohan, principal officer, Ms Michele Clark, principal officer, and Mr. Peter Hanrahan, assistant principal. I remind members and those in the Gallery to turn mobile phones off. Our meeting today is the first of those with the Minister. Members have submitted written responses and the Minister's responses to them have been circulated. I ask the Minister to begin her opening statement.
Update on Children and Youth Issues: Discussion
I thank the Chairman and the joint committee for the invitation to attend the meeting. I would like to take this opportunity to wish all members of the joint committee and the Chairman, Deputy Jerry Buttimer, well in their work. I congratulate them on the work they have done already on the very important areas of alcohol and drugs as well as other areas.
Last year I had the opportunity to set out in detail for the committee the role and functions of my Department and the vision for Ireland's children that we are working towards. The debate which followed was very helpful and a number of points were made by the committee which I hope to address in the course of my discussion with it. I look forward to constructive engagement with the committee as we shape the agenda for the new Department. I thank members for their contributions, not just at the committee but on the floors of the Dáil and Seanad in the various debates that have taken place on the range of issues that affect children.
I would like to provide a quick update on the work I have been doing and set out some key priorities for the coming year. I am aware we will have a separate meeting on the Estimates and a discussion on next year's budget. That is a new procedure and should be very useful. Copies of my presentation have been circulated to the committee and I do not intend to go through it in detail because members have had an opportunity to read it. I will highlight a number of areas.
I went into the details of the mandate of the Department when I was before the committee previously. We have provision for a range of universal and targeted services. One universal scheme is the ECCE scheme. There is a range of targeted services in other areas. We have a range of interventions with families, with which many members will be familiar. We are responsible for the harmonisation of policy across Departments, which is a complex area.
One third of Ireland's population is less than 26 years of age. Therefore, we have a significant group of young people. What is interesting at an international level is how much the economic benefits of early intervention are being focused on. They include better attendance in primary school; reductions in drug and alcohol abuse, which the committee has examined; better take-up of paid employment; and better longer-term outcomes. We have a range of high-quality information on early childhood care and its economic benefits. We need to do more research in Ireland on our services in that regard.
As the committee is aware, the Department was formally established on 2 June and I want to pay tribute to the complex work that went into its development and the support of the Attorney General in bringing together a wide range of functions, including education, welfare, criminal justice, early childhood care and other areas. We have developed a strategy statement.
The first priority of a Department of Children and Youth Affairs has to be child protection. Our children have to be safe and there have been serious issues, as everyone on the committee is only too well aware, in regard to child protection in this country over a long period. We are at a turning point regarding the better protection of Irish children. The publication of the Children First guidelines was a very important part of that.
I am very pleased that 94% of social work staff in the country have had access to high-quality information and training on those standards, which is a contrast to the Ombudsman's report of a number of years ago. There has been a roll-out of training and consultation with front line staff around the country. The Garda has been involved in this. The reports last week on the Garda highlighted the need for interagency co-operation and the Garda has been involved in seminars around the country, highlighting the need for quick action and reporting, interagency co-operation and sharing of information. I have seen substantial progress in the way the Garda is handling child sexual abuse, with an assistant commissioner now responsible for the area.
There have been some very important developments. We also have an interdepartmental committee on the implementation of Children First, on which the Garda and the HSE are represented. Interagency work is extremely important and played a key role in the Department's response to the Cloyne report. One of the areas which was important was for the church to publish the audits that were done. I called for that at the time of the publication of the Cloyne report. It has happened and the first of the audits has been published. It is to be hoped the others will also be published in the coming months.
One of the priorities of the Government was to establish a new child and family support agency. It is in the programme for Government. I have a working group who will be reporting to me shortly on some elements of the transition from the HSE to the new child and family support agency. This is a complex task. I hope to bring legislation for this to the House this year and to establish the new agency in 2013. Transitional arrangements will need to be established.
We are in a difficult economic environment and this affects every Department. I would like to have more money and as soon as we have economic growth in the country I would like to expand the services we are offering our children in certain areas. I have already spoken about extending the early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme to a second year, if the resources are available. I could mention a number of other areas. In the Estimates, we wanted to protect the front line. I welcome the provision of additional funding in a number of key areas, particularly to secure the universal preschool year. I have already talked about the importance of early intervention. Maintaining the funding for that scheme has been very important, and that has happened this year. Obviously, there have been some changes.
We also have an allocation of €8 million towards the development and maintenance of preschool and youth facilities. There are pressures on the infrastructure in this area but the capital provision has allowed me to announce a small grant scheme for community-run preschools and a separate grant scheme for youth facilities, including youth cafés. Many members will be familiar with the youth cafés, which have been a great success throughout the country. There is some capital funding for them this year and I compliment the inter-agency work taking place throughout the country. Religious and voluntary organisations, local authorities and Foróige have come together to provide youth cafés. They are being used by young people and are certainly an alternative to the sort of anti-social behaviour we are all concerned about. We need to see more of them.
An additional €21 million was provided for the HSE child welfare and protection services in 2012, a 4% increase at a time of economic difficulty. This recognises the financial and service pressures being experienced in this area and shows that this is a Government priority. This funding is reflected in the HSE national service plan for 2012 and will assist the national director, Mr. Gordon Jeyes, in managing the services and in their delivery.
The joint committee will have noted that for the first time we have a dedicated budget for children and family services in the HSE. Much work has gone into ensuring that we have this dedicated subhead. It is an important first step in the transition of child and family services from the HSE. The budget will be subject to revision. There may be other services that should come under the new child and family support agency, and that will be examined over the coming months.
Members of the committee will also know of the publication of the HSE review panel audits which have brought greater transparency to the issue of child deaths and serious incidents, both for the families concerned and the general public. Copies of these audits have been supplied to the committee.
A number of questions have been submitted on inter-country adoptions. I will address that matter when the questions come up. The hotline for missing children was raised at a previous meeting of the joint committee. Since that meeting, I have set up an interdepartmental committee to examine this issue. The joint committee will be aware that ComReg has recently allocated a missing children telephone hotline number to the ISPCC who will now apply for funding under an EU programme. Some supplementary funding will be necessary. Much progress has been made on that issue. The hotline should be in place this year.
I know the joint committee is concerned about child health. This area needs greater focus, whether relating to screening or to the disturbing number of three and a half year olds - 25% - who are overweight or obese. I was shocked when I first heard that figure, as I am sure members of the committee were. It is funny how we get used to hearing these statistics. I am sure committee members are as shocked by them as I was. We need interventions in this area. Last week, I launched a play and recreation network. I brought together all the play and recreation officers from local authorities throughout the country and we set up a new network to look at how young people are using local parks and sports facilities. A comprehensive plan will be drawn up to make sure there is access to sports facilities in local communities. This is an intergenerational issue. Accessing local facilities is also important for older people. I thought it important to bring together the play and recreation officers, who work with the sports partnerships, and to have a national plan and national approach.
Child protection is a key priority for 2012. We have ongoing work to do in this area. The children's referendum is a priority. It is my intention to propose to the Oireachtas that we put a referendum to the electorate on the incorporation in the Constitution of new provisions which copperfasten the interests of children. Much work has been done on this issue and several reports have been made over a ten year period. The referendum will be held this year. Discussions are ongoing with the Attorney General on the detailed wording. I will consult widely with the political parties, the joint committee and other interested parties. I am anxious to put proposals to the people as soon as possible but, given that this is an historic opportunity to address an important ambition for children that is held by many within this House and beyond, I am above all interested in achieving the support of our fellow citizens to ensure that the referendum is passed. This is an historic opportunity and a turning point. I will also be developing the new children and young people's policy framework and introducing the Bill to place Children First on a statutory basis.
I have received the report of the independent child death review group. The matters covered in it are extremely sad and tragic and my thoughts are with the families and young people concerned. The report contains an analysis of a shocking situation where, over a ten year period, the deaths occurred of 195 children who were either in care, in after-care or were known to the care system. The figure includes deaths from natural causes and others. I want to publish the report as soon as possible. I must get the advice of the Attorney General before doing so because we do not want to identify young children to the public. Privacy issues are being addressed.
Questions have been asked about St. Patrick's Institution but I do not intend to say much about this matter at this point. While this issue has been on the agenda since the 1980s, for the first time I have set up a group comprising all the key people who have an interest in this area. It includes the Irish Prison Service, the Irish Youth Justice Service, my Department, the Department of Justice and Equality and other interested parties and will make recommendations as to how we can quickly move forward on this issue. The group is chaired by the Secretary General of my Department, Mr. Jim Breslin, and I expect to be in a position shortly to make some announcements addressing alternative approaches to the detention of boys in this age group.
I look forward to this morning's discussion with the joint committee.
Thank you, Minister, for your presentation. It is important that we have a wide-ranging discussion and take a cross-party collaborative approach to the children's referendum. I congratulate you on your announcement that the referendum will take place this year and compliment you on the work done on the Children First Bill. The joint committee looks forward to your bringing the Bill to us for discussion. I thank you for that.
I intend to refer the heads of that Bill to the joint committee for discussion as soon as they are ready. I look forward to hearing what the committee has to say on the Bill. It is complicated legislation and we have made considerable progress on it.
I welcome the Minister and her staff and thank them for appearing before the committee. It is disappointing that as a result of the constraints which apply, we will not have time to deal with our very lengthy agenda in great detail. This is a very constructive forum for dealing with many issues and-----
I remind the Deputy that the constraints which apply relate to the fact that the room is booked for another committee meeting at 2 p.m. and that there is due to be a vote in the Dáil at 1.15 p.m. Those matters fall outside the jurisdiction and control of the committee and the Chair.
Yes, but it is nonetheless disappointing that we have such a short amount of time available to us. The committee provides a forum which is less formal than the Dáil in the context of working through various issues.
The Minister's brief and her role are extremely important. The establishment of both a specific Department with responsibility for children and a full Cabinet position for the Minister are welcome developments. These developments follow on from the initiative in recent years whereby a Minister of State with responsibility for children and youth affairs had a seat at the Cabinet table. They also continue the improvement of the infrastructure relating to the administration of children's issues.
I am disappointed that the child and family support agency will not be fully established until 2013. That will be a full two years after the Department was set up. I accept that there is a great deal of work and preparation to be done in this regard. However, the agency - which will lie at the core of the Department's operations and which will have responsibility with regard to the way in which issues relating to children will be administered in the future - will have been in gestation for a long period prior to its establishment. Why is it taking so long to set up the agency and what progress has been made to date?
As the Minister indicated, child protection is essential and integral to both her role and that of her Department. On previous occasions I raised with her the fact that social workers form a bulwark in the context of ensuring that we have a robust child protection system. Will the Minister indicate the number of social workers she hopes to retain in the system and how many she feels will be required in order to ensure that the gaps which exist will be filled? At present, almost 10% of children in foster care do not have access to designated social workers and there are difficulties in respect of ensuring that all child protection reports are dealt with appropriately. Will the Minister also outline her plans with regard to mandatory reporting and the impact these will have in the context of additional pressure being placed on social workers and the child protection system?
I voiced my concerns in the Dáil earlier in the week with regard to the fact that neither the Minister nor her Department has indicated the specific number of social workers they want to be in the system by the end of this year. A great deal of time, effort and resources have been dedicated to this matter in the aftermath of the recommendations in the Ryan report, particularly in the context of setting specific targets for increasing the number of social workers and of ensuring that vacant positions in the system will be back-filled. There does not appear to be a target-driven approach in place to ensure that there will be a particular number of social workers in place by the end of the year. The Minister indicated in the Dáil in recent days that some 45 social workers will be leaving the system as a result of the early retirement scheme. According to the information provided by the HSE, I am of the view that 71 social workers will be leaving.
The Deputy's five minutes have elapsed.
I urge the Minister to deal with this matter by ensuring that we return to a target-driven approach. There are other issues with which I would like to deal. Perhaps they can be addressed during the question-and-answer session.
I welcome the Minister and her officials. It is regrettable that we do not have the opportunity to engage with her more frequently. I hope that the pattern which obtained last year will not apply in 2012 and that we will be able to engage with the Minister on a quarterly basis.
I would be very happy to facilitate the committee in that regard.
The Minister previously indicated that she is prepared to engage with us on that basis and, to be fair, members are aware of that fact.
I know that, I am merely making a point.
It is the committee's timetable.
Those are my wishes. This is the second occasion on which the Minister has engaged with Members of the Oireachtas this week, having taken Question Time in the Dáil on Tuesday. I wish to inform the members of the press who cover proceedings of the Houses that they do a great disservice to the new Department and the Minister by not providing them with the appropriate level of coverage. I am of the view that the questions posed by Deputies on Tuesday last and the responses provided by the Minister merited more serious reflection in the media. The Department deserves the type of coverage to which I refer and I have no hesitation in placing my observations in this regard on the record. I wish the Minister and her Department every success. Media attention in respect of the Department's role is important.
The Minister referred to the establishment of the child and family support agency in 2013. She indicated in her preamble that the relevant task force would be providing advice in respect of a transitional arrangement. When will that advice be provided and when will the transitional arrangement come into play? Is the Minister in a position to be more specific regarding the establishment of the agency in 2013? I would be grateful if she could provide further information in this respect.
On child deaths and serious incidents, prior to the Minister's arrival the committee agreed that it would defer engaging in a more specific and focused discussion on the significant volume of work prepared by the national review panel until a later date. Having had an opportunity to peruse the work in question, however, I wish to pose a number of broad questions, particularly in respect of the terms of reference set down by HIQA. Concerns are expressed in the commentary to the national review panel's report with regard to the broadness of its brief and that this in some way curtailed the panel's work. Concerns are also expressed with regard to the panel's capacity to deal with the huge volume of cases involved. All of the historic cases were at issue here and I can understand the need to deal with them in order that residual questions, etc., will not arise. It is apparent that the panel was really stretched in the context of its work. There are added concerns in respect of the timeframes within which reviews are expected to be completed. For example, serious incident reviews must be completed in four months and those relating to deaths must be concluded within one month.
I have no wish to suggest that we should proceed with these matters in a dilatory fashion, thereby ensuring that disposing of them would take longer than is necessary. However, one must take on board the commentary of those who have been tasked with carrying out the relevant work. It has been suggested that adherence to the timeframes to which I refer is difficult, particularly in light of the need to procure, from a multiplicity of sources, information which might be relevant in the context of formulating a report. I have only one question to pose on the notes relating to the Baby G case. Has the Minister implemented the recommendations contained in the report relating to the death of Baby G? I will reserve commentary on the other cases involved until the committee has an opportunity to discuss the report in its entirety at a later date.
I welcome the fact that the Minister has bluntly and boldly stated that the referendum on children's rights will be held in 2012. Is she in a position to provide further information with regard to how her discussions with the Attorney General on this matter are progressing? Given that it is mid-February, will the Minister indicate when we can expect the facilitating legislation, the wording, etc., relating to this matter will be published?
The Deputy's five minutes have elapsed.
I wish to make a final comment on the detention of 16 and 17 year old boys in St. Patrick's Institution. The Minister has said she is due to receive recommendations from the Secretary General of her Department who has chaired the review, and he expects to be in a position to make early progress. We do not want to see children in St. Patrick's Institution. What is the position on Oberstown? Could the Minister give an update on the matter?
I thank the Minister for all the paperwork with which she has provided us in advance, and her responses to our questions. When I was preparing yesterday I put it up on my Facebook page and someone commented that the Minister is impressive and that we must encourage, support and commend her, that we need people such as she to take risks and be thanked for it. The person said she must do what she can, that we cannot change the system overnight but that we should try our best. It is in that spirit that I make my comments today. Due to the time constraints I cannot commend all the areas where I see positive moves as I must focus on where further action needs to be taken.
I welcome the Minister's statement that the children's rights referendum will be held this year. I also welcome that she will involve the committee. She has said clearly in her answer that following her work on the previous committee on the amendment, she will strive for all-party agreement.
I looked at the questions tabled by my colleagues on inter-country adoption. It brought home to me the fact that we have approximately 2,000 children in long-term foster care in this country who are currently ineligible for adoption. The children's rights referendum could make a difference to them. The reality is that when the children in this country who are in long-term foster care turn 18 that right is extinguished. We can talk in theory about the children's rights referendum but as each day and month passes I am conscious that we are denying some children in this country what everybody agrees should be a right, namely, the security of being part of a family. It is another incentive for me that there are 2,000 very good reasons for not delaying the referendum.
I welcome the answers provided on the Children and Family Support Agency. My only concern in these recessionary times is that we focus on priorities and that it would be overly focused on child protection. I am concerned that we do not have an agency that will be the NAMA for children. We must ensure that it is an agency for the welfare of all children in the same way that public health nurses visit all families. The agency must be perceived as not just the "troubled kids agency" but as an agency for all children and families. I welcome the fact that the Minister will bring the heads of the Children First Bill to the committee. I agree that it is complex and that we must work with the Minister on it, as sometimes these issues seem simpler.
The second issue I wish to raise relates to St. Patrick's Institution. I look forward to the Minister's announcement on alternatives. I wish to voice a concern about the fact that in St. Patrick's, children who are convicted and on remand are held within the same space. The United Nations standard of minimum rules for the treatment of prisoners specifies clearly that untried prisoners shall be kept separately from convicted prisoners. That should be especially true for children. When the Minister is seeking alternative solutions I urge her to give consideration to whether there are alternatives in that area. In addition, I urge her to give consideration to extending the remit of the Ombudsman for Children who cannot accept complaints from children who are currently held in St. Patrick's Institution. The Minister has called for an extension of her remit to allow for that, so that they can be heard on the same basis as other children.
I thank the Minister for providing the reports in response to the question I tabled about entrusting the committee with the reports of the national review panel for serious incidents and child deaths. As my colleague, Deputy Ó Caoláin, said, because each report relates to a child and is extremely serious we need to give it due consideration. We will do that as a committee. It is clear that we must work with the Minister to establish a system that is child-centred, which learns the lessons from the tragedies that have occurred and that we work to provide vulnerable children with the best possible support and care. We will revert to the Minister on the reports. I hope that the fact that we now have the reports will ensure that we automatically get reports as they are published.
I thank Senator van Turnhout for being under the allocated five minutes. I invite the Minister to address the opening three remarks and then we will come back to members who have already submitted questions.
I thank members for their comments. To respond first to Deputy McConalogue's questions, the target I want to reach is that all children in care should have a care plan. The number of children in care nationally at the end of the December 2011 was 6,160. Of those children, 5,567, or 90.4%, had a written care plan in place. It is one thing to have a written care plan; it is another to have proper implementation of that. It is the right start. The very least we can do is ensure that each child has a care plan. Of all the types of care provided to children in this country, in general, foster care settings had the highest percentage with a written care plan - 91.3%. That is very important. It was 90% in residential care, in foster care it was 91.3%, in foster care with relatives it was 88.8% and in other care types it was 86.3%. It must be agreed that there has been much progress in having written care plans. We are going in the right direction and the numbers are increasing all the time, which is only right. The goal is to have 100%. Some children move in and out of care very quickly and in such cases it may not be feasible to have a written care plan but the vast majority of children in care should have a written care plan.
In terms of having an allocated social worker, which is another area on which concern was expressed, at the end of December 2011, 92.6% of children in care had an allocated social worker. The committee will see from those figures the progress has been made but there is more work to be done. We are focused on that. The HSE children and family services are focused on ensuring that all children in care have a social worker. A total of 97.3% of children in residential care have a social worker. That is a good percentage. Progress in those areas is clearly reflected in the figures.
Members raised the number of social workers on more than one occasion. I wish to make a couple of points. We are in a somewhat fluid situation at the moment with early retirements. I wish to focus on child protection. These figures may change somewhat but the latest figures I have show that 37 additional child and family social workers were recruited in 2011. I am pleased to say that even since we had Question Time in the Dáil on Tuesday, ten more social workers have been recruited out of the 62. We now have 35 out of the 62 recruited. There was some doubt as to whether I would get it, but I secured the budget for the 62. That will bring the numbers that will probably be in place by the end of January to 262 out of the 270 that were recommended in the Ryan report. It was always intended that ten were to be recruited this year. Thirty five social workers are already in place and the rest have accepted positions and are serving out notice. They will be in place shortly. When the 62 new social workers are in post, that will be an increase of 95 social workers in the area of child and family protection.
Is the Minister saying the 62 social workers will be employed this year?
Yes, in the next few weeks. They have all accepted the job offers. It is just a question-----
There was a degree of ambiguity in that regard.
They were recruited last year and they will be in place in the next few weeks.
Is there any ambiguity in that regard?
Absolutely none. Thirty five social workers have started and the rest have accepted the job offers and will be taking up those positions. That fulfils the recommendation made by the Ryan report on the number of extra social workers that should be recruited. That is very important.
The situation arises that we have some retirements. The latest information is that 45 social workers are leaving from the child and family area. That is still a net increase of 50. Given the early retirement scheme this is a period of transition. The increase of 50 is before the national director, who will fill some of the vacancies. He has the option to fill those vacancies where they are needed. This year there is a commitment to recruit the national therapeutic and multidisciplinary care team for children in care and detention. This is important because we need a dedicated team in place for the most vulnerable children in detention whose circumstances are most complicated. That team will be recruited this year.
This is a very challenging area for the national director to manage. The number of referrals is increasing. Children under five years are entering care, particularly because of drug and alcohol issues in families. One should bear in mind the pressures families are experiencing and the inability to manage because of parental drug and alcohol addictions. That is a feature of the cases involving young children coming into care and it is very disturbing. The national director is working very hard on a national reform programme, which is needed. Although I could elaborate on the range of issues I inherited in terms of data collection and difficulties, I will not do so.
With regard to the timeframe for the establishment of the child and family support agency, there is a transition. We have a separate budget for the agency which is operating within the HSE. A transitional team has been established within the HSE and the number of managers, for example, has been reduced from 34 to 17. Work is under way on the better allocation of cases, gleaning more data and analysing what is turning up for the front-line teams. The data are not yet comparable across the country. This is a problem I share with other areas of the health service. We are still working on this to ensure we are comparing like with like when we obtain figures from social work teams across the country. However, we are making progress.
Deputy Ó Caoláin mentioned the Baby G case, the implications of which are being examined. It highlights the impact of domestic violence on the lives of children. Recommendations have been made about better interagency work between the HSE and the Garda. That is an issue on which there is work ongoing. It is challenging in the current environment in which there is a high demand for alternative places, very often for the women involved. Children are very vulnerable in the circumstances in question. The recommendations made in the child death report have been followed up on by the HSE.
On the comments made by Deputy Ó Caoláin and Senator van Turnhout on child deaths, it is very clear that we need a new national approach. There is no question but that we have been far behind other countries in having a mechanism to review child deaths. I praise the very valuable work done by Ms Helen Buckley on her report in which she made a number of recommendations as to how we should change our approach. The referrals are too broad, as she said and she is on the front line. The new report I received from Mr. Geoffrey Shannon and Ms Norah Gibbons, whose work I compliment, also addresses the kind of child death review mechanism we should have in place. I intend to bring forward a proposal, after the report is published, on a national approach to both monitoring and analysing the death of a child in care.
The children's rights referendum is of such importance that the Minister should make another comment on it. Will she also comment on St. Patrick's Institution?
The work on the referendum is very intensive and involves both my Department and the Office of the Attorney General. It will be necessary to publish the accompanying adoption legislation with the referendum wording. I have not spoken to the committee about this, but quite a lot of work has been done. It will be helpful in understanding the referendum if we publish the proposed legislation if the referendum is passed. I intend to publish it, with the wording. When I examined the circumstances surrounding the referendum, it became clear to me that it would be very desirable to have the legislation published at the time the referendum was held. The Cabinet has not yet decided on a date. It is working hard on the issue.
There is other legislation to be dealt with, including that on vetting, the withholding of information and Children First. These are provisions that should naturally be in place at the time the referendum is held and work is progressing in all these areas. The next few months will be a very busy period in dealing with the issue of child protection and the Cabinet will make a decision in due course. It is very important that we prepare well for the referendum and that people understand it fully. I do not want misunderstandings and want to give the public time to understand why we are doing what we are doing. The issue may have been discussed for ten or 12 years, but, as we know with referendums, it is very important to have the opportunity for a full discussion on the meaning of the wording proposed and the actual wording when the time comes.
It is important that there be a proper lead-in period and proper communication. I welcome the Minister's remarks.
In regard to St. Patrick's Institution, there is a working group in place. A very detailed analysis is being carried out by the group on the 16 and 17 year olds in the institution. We are examining various pathways forward for the young people concerned.
With regard to funding for the Oberstown centre, I am in ongoing discussions with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, on a mechanism to fund an initial part of the project in order that we can begin to move on having the facility in place.
We are dealing with questions Nos. 10 to 15, inclusive, and 20 and 21. I ask members to be concise. The questions have been submitted in advance and the Minister has replied.
I refer to question No. 19 which concerns surrogacy. I thank the Minister for her reply. The legal position on children born as part of a surrogacy arrangement is open. There is, therefore, a need for amending legislation to deal with the issue. Will it be considered? I acknowledge a document will be produced in the not-too-distant future. Will the legislation be dealt with within the next 12 months? It is a difficult legal issue, about which a number of legal colleagues have been in contact with me and are concerned. In the United States it has been dealt with legislatively. Could this option be considered?
My second point is on question No. 21 in regard to intercountry adoptions. Some agencies have received approval from the Adoption Authority of Ireland but others have not. I had a meeting as recently as last Saturday with one of the groups dealing with intercountry adoptions and it stated it had not received approval from the authority, although its application was with it for more than 14 months. One agency has approval for intercountry adoptions with three countries, whereas the one to which I refer is dealing with only one. Will the Department examine why there is such a delay in dealing with this agency as opposed to those which appear to be afforded priority? Can this matter be dealt with?
I call Deputy Naughten on questions Nos. 13 to 15, inclusive.
I thank the Minister for her detailed replies. I welcome the comments she has made on youth cafés which constitute a positive development. In the past three years there has been a cut of approximately 20% in the various funding streams to youth organisations. In the coming three years there will be a cut of between 15% and 36%, which is significant in regard to the provision of services, especially in counties such as Roscommon where there are not as many voluntary organisations as there are in others. Will the Minister re-examine how the cuts are being managed because of their impact on front-line services throughout the country, particularly in parts of the country such as my own in which she has had first-hand experience of the services available?
On question No. 13, is there now a full complement of social workers for child support services in Roscommon? Are there still vacant posts? If so, can the Minister assure members that they will be filled?
As the Minister is aware, a further child neglect review was commenced on foot of the report. It identified that in one in four of neglect cases, the families concerned still were deemed as being at risk on foot of that audit. I find the extent of this to be surprising. I understood the report on this case was to be published by the end of the year. In a reply to a parliamentary question, the Minister has indicated to me that an executive summary will be published and the HSE national director has stated that a redacted version of the report would be provided. When will that report be published and what status will it have? Will it be published in full or as an executive summary?
With regard to the national audit that is under way, County Roscommon was the first county to be audited. In what other primary, community and continuing care, PCCC, areas have such audits commenced? Have they been completed and has the same frequency of children who are deemed to be at risk been identified in other counties as was the case in County Roscommon?
With regard to question No. 14, regarding the missing children seeking asylum, the Minister is aware that sadly, in the past some of those children have ended up in the sex industry in Ireland. It is important to remember this and that children did not simply evaporate into thin air. The Garda-HSE protocol was to be reviewed by 1 November 2009. While I understand this review is now formally under way, why has it taken so long for it to take place? I reiterate that the Minister should furnish members with the figures for the children who disappeared in 2011, as well as for those who have not been accounted for to date.
I thank the Minister for the opportunity to address these questions to her and note she already has touched on the questions I posed with regard to the child protection agency and the referendum. However, I have some specific questions in this regard. I welcome the language that is now being used to discuss how child protection issues will be dealt with in respect of both the social and economic returns that can be seen from early investment and from preventative services. With this in mind, I wish to tease out a commitment in the programme for Government to consider rolling out services, such as those provided by Young Ballymun, in partnership with philanthropic organisations. To what extent, if any, has the Department engaged with organisations such as Atlantic Philanthropies to ensure such funding has been secured to facilitate the rolling out of such preventative early intervention services? I refer in particular to the provision of such services in the five areas of significant disadvantage identified by all research, namely, Dublin, Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford city. A roadmap with which the Government can engage already exists in respect of trying to act preventively to ensure a return for its investment. This would be welcome and the Minister should indicate what role, if any, the proposed child protection welfare agency will have in the development of such programmes over the lifetime of the Government.
I wish to raise another issue with regard to the proposed referendum on children's rights. I welcome the Minister's success in securing an increase in funding to deal with child protection and welfare. However, I also wish to impress on the Minister the importance of achieving equal success at the Cabinet table in ensuring it is a stand-alone referendum. In other words, people should not be in a position in which they may be voting on the future of the Seanad on the same day. It must be a stand-alone referendum because a dialogue on this issue is necessary to deal adequately with any apprehensions the public may have in this regard. I welcome the Minister's comments to that effect. This will be a seismic change and I refer to experience regarding social change, such as the divorce referendum, when the "Goodbye Daddy" posters went up and it became about everything except divorce. I do not wish to see similar hysteria revisited regarding what could be a seismic and transformative referendum for the lives of children and the Minister should impress this point on the Cabinet.
I wish to make one further point on the ongoing changes in the transition from the HSE to the establishment of the child protection agency. To what extent has there been engagement regarding the change process with the staff on the ground? While it is great to have in place the structure, policy and procedure, one must see real engagement with front-line staff for the culture of an organisation to change. I welcome the Minister's comments that more than 90% of staff have access to training. What was the figure for uptake, as opposed to access, in this regard? Will it be reviewed because such training and support will be important when trying to implement change in work practices in the area of child protection and welfare.
I echo Deputy Conway's remarks by stating the joint committee is of the view that the referendum on children should be a stand-alone event, given its importance and the historic opportunity it presents to the nation. On behalf of the committee, I make the appeal to the Minister that it should be a stand-alone event.
It is the Government's intention that it will be a stand-alone referendum. I take the points made by members regarding the complexity of this issue and on ensuring that people understand clearly what it is about. This issue deserves a referendum that is held on its own and that is the Government's intention.
I thank the Minister.
On the questions that have been raised, it is clear the issue of surrogacy has not been addressed in Irish law or policy to any degree to date. This means those couples who are surrogate parents are in an extremely vulnerable position. This issue is being examined. It is primarily an issue for the Department of Justice and Equality to bring forward guidelines in the first instance to provide some continuity and consistency for Irish embassies, families and those who are in this position, as to how couples are dealt with. However, it raises extremely complex issues both for Irish law and the laws of other countries. This is a complex issue and certainly anyone who is contemplating this option should obtain independent legal advice. It is an area on which my Department has worked with the Attorney General and the Department of Justice and Equality and a surrogacy guidance document will be issued shortly.
Senator Colm Burke raised the question of assessment in respect of inter-country adoption. Quite a lot of progress has been made by the Adoption Authority of Ireland on finalising agencies that can be involved in this process. The Senator raised the issue of one outstanding agency without naming it, although I know the agency to which he referred. I assure the Senator this matter also is being regarded as a priority issue. There is no delay and no question of putting other agencies ahead in respect of dealing with any issues that might arise. Information is sought and on its return must then be analysed as part of the assessment. It is a highly rigorous process and I understand that ranges of information are required from the various agencies on practice and finance. When such information is returned, a decision is made and I note decisions are due on agencies. I understand the Senator was referring to an agency that works in Vietnam and a decision is due on that agency shortly.
Is it due imminently or in the long term?
I expect it is imminent. I am informed by the Adoption Authority that a decision is imminent, provided the data for which it asked are satisfactory. However, much work has been done to ensure a decision can be made in the near future.
Deputy Naughten referred to youth funding and the challenges to provide a service in this area. I can only agree with him. Had I been in office for the past ten years, I would have been giving out money but that is not the current position, which is one of reform and trying to do more with less. I want to reform the way in which youth funding is allocated, including the different streams. I believe that the current system leads to undue restrictions with youthwork organisations. A lot of work is being done by my staff to ensure that front line services will be protected as far as possible. We are asking both at national HQ and organisational level that youthwork organisations seek to reform and share services in order to do their work more efficiently. It is a big ask because they are delivering a valuable service. I have seen those services in Roscommon and elsewhere throughout the country. We need such services but unfortunately we are in an era where less money is available. Those are the facts of the situation. We need to see reforms whereby agencies can work together more.
I am trying to protect front line voluntary social youth services as much as possible. However, I take the point that it is a tough environment for all our organisations. Across the board people are being asked to examine their budgets carefully to give good value for money. I will help by reforming the way in which youth budgets are allocated, giving more flexibility to youth organisations to use the money across the various services they are supplying.
Some reform is also needed in youth information services because we are in an era where young people access information in a totally different way. Money that has gone into youth information can now be used in different ways. The organisations will step up to the plate in this regard. I have had discussions with all of them about this but as I have said, it is a challenging environment for them.
I was asked about the Roscommon report and I will come back to Deputy Naughten on those details. As far as the audit is concerned, one must look at the HSE national service plan to learn some of the lessons of Roscommon. The section entitled "Cultural change", on page 59 of the service plan, makes it clear that we want to develop and implement a quality assurance and audit framework across child protection, welfare and alternative care services. In learning the lessons from Roscommon we must assess how the work is being done, as well as having consistency across all child protection teams. We must also be able to compare what is happening. We talked about child deaths and we must have a national system of monitoring serious incidents both locally and nationally.
We need to roll out the kind of manual on child protection I launched last year. It is my intention to roll out another manual on alternative care services like fostering. The service delivery plan which is in place for this year, takes up what was recommended in Roscommon - that is about having a consistent framework for policies and standards. We have had too much inconsistency concerning child protection, so a more consistent approach is required. I am saying that, while at the same time respecting the work of front line social workers who do a difficult job under a lot of pressure. I certainly do not want to minimise that. Management can help those social workers by putting in place what Deputy Naughten mentioned - a national audit, national standards, a clear framework for dealing with cases of child sexual abuse.
Deputy Naughten also referred to neglect which is the highest growing area of referrals. Both here and in the United Kingdom people are reluctant to report because they may feel they are interfering with the family concerned. Children who are suffering neglect, however, are very much at risk in terms of their development.
What about Deputy Conway's question? I am conscious of time because Deputy Fitzpatrick wants to get in as well.
Yes. As regards separated children, the numbers are far lower. I did publish the numbers of missing children for last year and there has been quite a drop. There are also fewer unaccompanied children coming in. There is a completely new process in place for unaccompanied children who now have a dedicated social worker and receive the same type of care as Irish children in care. That is a big change and hostels are no longer being used. I believe those hostels were inappropriate for those children to be in.
Deputy Conway talked about early intervention and a lot of dedicated money from various philanthropic organisations has been put into that. It presents both a challenge and an opportunity. It is a challenge because those organisations will be leaving the country and they have put a lot of money into these services. The opportunity is how to take the lessons that have been learned from the sterling work they have done in Ballymun, Tallaght and other areas throughout the country. How do we take those lessons and integrate them into mainstream services? That is what we intend to do and at the moment I am awaiting reports on the community development initiatives. When I have them I can then see how we can begin to mainstream because we simply will not have the money to continue in the same way as with those services, which were pilot projects. We must learn the lessons from them nonetheless and try to incorporate them into mainstream services. There will be a difficult transition period for some of those projects because millions of euro have been put in. They are wonderful services doing major preventative work with families. That is a challenge and I look forward to coming back to the committee to discuss how we will do that.
Deputy Conway also mentioned the stand-alone element for the children's rights referendum and I support what she has said. She also asked about the number of social workers. In fact, some 94% of social workers have been involved in that training, which is a very high number. Given the pressurised situation under which the HSE is working, it is a credit to the staff and the priority they have given to this matter, including the consultation work that has gone on throughout the country.
Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick
I thank the Minister for attending the joint committee. I have three matter I want to talk about. First, I am interested in the arrangements the Minister has in place for reducing youth crime. Can she elaborate on that area?
My second point concerns the ECCE, which is the free school year in childhood care and education. The programme for 2012 will cost €175 million which is an increase of approximately €10 million over last year. It is welcome that an extra 3,000 children will be participating. Families are concerned nonetheless, so I am pleased that the Minister is pursuing that matter.
Third, the Minister spoke about grants for community schemes and the separate grant for youth facilities, including youth cafés, which are much appreciated. I know from first-hand experience that the Minister has invested in a youth café in Dundalk, which is a fantastic facility and is much appreciated.
I am also interested in tackling childhood obesity. The study entitled "Growing up in Ireland" is very good and has been well accepted. The committee has put a lot of time aside in March to discuss this topic among others. We are taking it very seriously. Can the Minister elaborate on the question of participating in special groups on obesity?
I wish to thank the Minister and her staff for their help. I appreciate the fact that they are very approachable and adept at dealing with questions I have raised. It is always great when one rings a ministerial adviser and receives assistance.
I thank the Deputy for complimenting my staff.
There is a vote due in the Dáil at 1.15 p.m., so the room must be vacated by then.
Yes. I want to acknowledge the work of the Department, which is a new entity. As with every other Department, there is always room for more resources. I wish to thank Deputy Fitzpatrick for his comment on four areas.
On youth crime, one of the reasons we see a drop in detention is because of the work being done in the community by the Garda youth diversion programme and the Irish Youth Justice Service, IYJS, elements of the work of which is under my Department. I want to see more preventative work being done at community level. It is very important. The youth cafés and, as Deputy Naughten stated, putting funding into the youth area are important as well. The Garda youth diversion programme, which is community-based, nationwide and multidisciplinary, is making a difference on the ground and is the correct direction in which to go.
We might see fewer children in detention but we probably see more children coming in through the care system. There is that kind of switch going on. There are more than 100 Garda youth diversion projects. We have done an analysis of them and I can certainly communicate with Deputy Fitzpatrick about that. There is interesting information coming out about how best to work with young offenders.
I made the point about early intervention. It is difficult to believe, but if one intervenes in young children's lives early and one gives them quality care like the ECCE scheme, which is Deputy Fitzpatrick's second question, the international evidence suggests that youth crime figures are lower. They have made direct correlations between early intervention with young children and later anti-social crime rates. We have maintained the ECCE scheme and I thank the Deputy for his comments on it. Some 95% of all those aged three to four years in the country are attending.
Senator van Turnhout and Deputy Ó Caoláin indicated, but I ask them to be brief.
On St. Patrick's Institution, I look forward to the report and the announcements the Minister will make in the coming weeks. I am conscious there are 45 children there at present and we have been talking about this since the mid-1980s. In parallel to the work the Minister is doing there, will she consider extending the remit of the Ombudsman for Children to investigate complaints from children in St. Patrick's Institution? Obviously, I will welcome any announcements but, in parallel, we should ensure all children in Ireland have a right to the Ombudsman for Children.
In reference to another point in the Minister's presentation about the comprehensive review of expenditure, in talking about all the changes she and we would wish to see made, the Minister makes the point that we do not have the resources to fund all the services we want to provide and that the Department is carrying out an in-depth analysis and assessment of all programmes of expenditure to identify priorities for scarce resources in the years ahead. Some of the critical voices of parts of what the Minister proposes and what her Department hopes to see in place, and indeed some who are hugely supportive of what she wants to achieve, have expressed concern that under-resourced systems of intervention and support themselves, by the very nature of the new situation we hope to see, with greater awareness and proactivity on the part of persons in alerting the system to dangers and problems presenting, could end up being dysfunctional. There is a need for resourcing of all that the Minister wants to see in place. Can she give us any hope in these difficult times that this is appreciated by her colleagues in Cabinet?
Very briefly, Deputy McConalogue.
I seek clarification on my earlier question on social workers. What will be the total number of social workers when the 270 extra social workers are employed as a result of the Ryan report recommendations? Is it intended to keep the number of social workers at that level?
I am conscious there is a Dáil vote imminent.
I did not deal with the question from Deputy Fitzpatrick on obesity. I welcome the focus the committee is putting on this area. The consequences for these young children are horrific at every level and intervention is so important. My Department is working on the interdepartmental group which has representatives from a range of Departments working on an implementation plan to address this issue. I can give Deputy more details if he wishes.
On the question from Senator van Turnhout, I am positively disposed to extending the remit of the Ombudsman for Children to St. Patrick's Institution. I intend to discuss this with the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter. I want to ensure that young people are not in St. Patrick's Institution.
Absolutely.
Let us see how we progress not having children there in the first place. If there are some children there, I would have no reason not to support extending the remit of the Ombudsman for Children, Ms Emily Logan, to St. Patrick's Institution. I have had a brief word with the Ombudsman in this regard. I note that her primary goal, like mine, is not to use St. Patrick's Institution for young children. While there are young children in St. Patrick's Institution, however, I believe the Ombudsman for Children's remit should be extended there.
I take Deputy Ó Caoláin's point about resources. Clearly, one would like to have more resources but we are in a difficult economic situation and my Department, like all other Departments, must look rigorously at the areas of expenditure. I believe there is scope for reform. I already spoke of youth funding. As Deputy Ó Caoláin will appreciate, we must drive efficiencies in every area. However, there are priority areas which I am addressing, some of which I outlined today. When I return to the committee to discuss expenditure, that would be a good opportunity to examine the priority areas I have chosen and the views of the committee in terms of priorities for the future.
And Deputy McConalogue's question?
The best course, in reply to his question, is to give the figures. I put these on the record in the Dáil the other day. The total number of social workers - I focused on child and family protection social workers today - was 2,189 in 2009 and 2,431 in 2010. In 2011, it was 2,441, which does not include the majority of the 62 social workers to be recruited. I might need to come back to the Deputy with the figure for those who were in place at the end of December last.
What was the figure to be reached as a result of the Ryan report recommendations?
There is a vote now in the Dáil.
It is in excess of 2,441. I am trying to remember the figure for those in place. It is 2,441, plus 62, minus the figure that had started at the end of December, on which I will come back to the Deputy.
There is a vote in the Dáil. I thank the Minister and her officials for attending. I reiterate the importance of us using the referendum as a unique opportunity to safeguard the interests of children and that it will be a stand-alone referendum. I thank the members for their participation and look forward to our next quarterly meeting with the Minister which will be part of the committee's work. We look forward to working with the Minister on different legislation and progressing the areas of children and youth affairs in the years ahead.
The joint committee adjourned at 1.20 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Thursday, 23 February 2012.