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Joint Committee on Health and Children debate -
Thursday, 23 Apr 2015

Alcohol Consumption: BT Young Scientist Winners

Deputy Kelleher has sent apologies and Deputy Moynihan will attend the meeting in his place. I am delighted to welcome two transition year students, Mr. Ian O'Sullivan and Ms Eimear Murphy, from Coláiste Treasa, Kanturk, winners of the BT Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition, who are here to present the innovative research they carried out in their local area on the impact of parental alcohol consumption on the drinking behaviour of children and adolescents. It is appropriate that they are here, given that yesterday they met the Minister for Health, Deputy Varadkar, as part of the Alcohol Forum, and it is a fitting end to our discussions on the public health (alcohol) Bill. I also welcome Mr. Martin Davoren of University College Cork, who has supported Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy in their work, and Mr. Bobby Smith. I welcome the parents, families and school community representatives of Coláiste Treasa. I thank them for their assistance with Ms Murphy and Mr. O'Sullivan, who I again congratulate on their award.

Mr. Ian O'Sullivan

We thank the committee for the opportunity to present our research. The World Health Organization has identified Europe as the heaviest drinking region in the world. It is noteworthy that the Irish population consumes more alcohol than the European average. Alcohol plays a complex role in Irish society. It represents an integral part of modern culture and is generally consumed for reasons of relaxation, enjoyment and sociability. However, alcohol is a leading cause of global suffering, implicated in more than 60 diseases and numerous premature deaths each year. The assistant State pathologist, Dr. Margaret Bolster, has stated that the majority of her cases are alcohol related.

In Ireland, many of those aged between 12 and 18 years are drinking regularly, and young Irish people report being drunk more often than their European counterparts. It has been reported that young people who drink alcohol before the age of 15 years are four times more likely to develop alcohol dependency than those who wait until they are 21. Each additional year of delayed drinking reduces the likelihood of alcohol dependence by 14%. A number of factors influence the age at which individuals start using alcohol. These include peer pressure, societal factors and parental factors. Parents serve as role models for their children in imparting important health-related knowledge and appropriate behaviour. Parents are the most influential factor on their children during their formative years. The alcohol consumption pattern of the parent observed by the child is taken to be the norm and is a behaviour which they are likely to emulate. As one child noted in a recent Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, ISPCC, report, “If you see your parents get drunk, whether you like it or not, it will have an effect on your life”.

A recent systematic review highlights that previous research on the subject of the parent-child relationship and alcohol use have found inconclusive or weak evidence. Mongan et al noted the need to investigate the relationship between parental attitudes and alcohol consumption and adolescent alcohol consumption in an Irish context. Personally, we observed different drinking patterns among our peers. We found this interesting because it is well known that peer pressure is one of the principal factors in alcohol consumption among adolescents. We realised there must be other influences impacting adolescent drinking behaviour. Thus, the aim of our research was to investigate the relationship between parental attitude and consumption of alcohol and their adolescents' alcohol consumption.

Ms Eimear Murphy

We undertook a cross-sectional survey. The topics included in this questionnaire were alcohol use, self-reported height and weight, smoking status and mental health and well-being questions, all of which were previously validated. The Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test for Consumption, AUDIT-C, which is a series three questions that indicate whether or not someone is a hazardous drinker, was employed. Parental attitude questions were taken from Research New Zealand papers and consisted of a statement with which parents disagreed or agreed or felt neutral about.

It determined what parents considered to be social norms and also what they thought about their own drinking behaviour. The questionnaire was distributed to all fifth and sixth year pupils, as well as their parents, in the Kanturk-Mallow local electorate area during the academic year 2014-15. Each parent and pupil had a corresponding number on their questionnaires in order to link their results. This gave us a sample size of 982 fifth and sixth year students in eight schools. We received a response rate of 37%, made up of 360 students and their parents. Ethical approval for the survey was granted in October from the clinical research ethics committee of the Cork teaching hospitals. The data was entered in an Excel document and transferred to IBM SPSS Statistics 20 for statistical analysis. AUDIT-C and BMI scores were calculated according to specific instrument guidelines. Analysis included descriptive analysis, frequency analysis and binary logistic regression analysis.

The mean age of adolescents was 16.89 years, the youngest being 15 years and the oldest 19 years. The mean age of parents participating in the survey was 49.69 years for fathers and 47.53 years for mothers. Notably, 87% of adolescents reported having a normal BMI, compared to 47% of parents. In addition, less than 10% of adolescents had smoked 100 cigarettes in their lifetime, and although 46% of the parents surveyed had smoked 100 cigarettes in their lifetime, the majority of these, 72.6%, were ex-smokers.

Our study focused on hazardous alcohol consumption. The AUDIT-C results showed that 34% of adolescents surveyed displayed a hazardous drinking pattern. This was reported by 39.6% of males compared to 29.9% of females. Some 47% of all parents surveyed were hazardous drinkers. This was reported by 50% of fathers and 46.8% of mothers. In regard to parental attitudes, over 90% of parents disagreed with allowing their adolescents to get drunk sometimes and rejected the idea that getting drunk is part of having fun as an adolescent. Also, more than 80% of all parents surveyed believed they set a good example for their adolescent on alcohol consumption. Notably, some 16.8% of parents said they would not be worried if their adolescent consumed four pints of alcohol once a month. Almost one fifth of parents surveyed were not concerned if another parent was to supply their adolescent with alcohol. More than 40% of parents agreed with allowing their adolescent to drink on special occasions. It is also notable that mothers were more likely to believe that their adolescent had consumed too much alcohol.

Mr. Ian O'Sullivan

Using univariate logistic regression, we investigated the impact of the father on his adolescent's hazardous drinking pattern. We found that hazardous-drinking adolescents are three times more likely to have a father who is a hazardous drinker, six times more likely to have a father who agrees that it is okay for his child to get drunk sometimes, four times more likely to have a father who agrees that getting drunk is part of having fun as a teenager, five times more likely to have a father who would allow another parent to supply his adolescent with alcohol, almost five times more likely to have a father who would not be concerned by his adolescent consuming four pints of alcohol once a month, and five times more likely to have a father who believes that it is okay for pupils to drink on special occasions.

Similarly, for the mother, we found that if an adolescent is a hazardous drinker then his or her mother is 4.5 times more likely to agree that it is okay for the adolescent to get drunk sometimes, 3.5 times more likely to agree that getting drunk is part of having fun as an adolescent, almost twice as likely to think that it is a good idea to introduce alcohol to adolescents in the home environment, half as likely to think that adolescents should not drink at all, over three times as likely to think that it is okay for adolescents to drink on special occasions, 3.5 times more likely to consent to another parent providing alcohol to her adolescent under supervision, and three times more likely not to be concerned by the adolescent consuming four pints of beer once a month. Whether the adolescent’s mother is a hazardous drinker or believes that she sets a good example for her adolescent has no effect on whether the adolescent is a hazardous drinker.

Multivariate logistic regression applying backward elimination, which takes all variables into consideration, uncovered the most pertinent factors where an adolescent reported hazardous alcohol consumption. These were, first, having a father who reported hazardous alcohol consumption; second, having a father who believes it is okay for their teenager to get drunk sometimes; third, having a father with reduced well-being; fourth, having a father who is almost four times more likely to report allowing their child to consume alcohol on special occasions; and fifth, having a mother who is over three times more likely to report allowing the child to consume alcohol on special occasions.

Ms Eimear Murphy

The findings from this research highlight the need for some important public policy measures. Previous research has noted the importance of a minimum age for consumption. Exposure to alcohol in adolescence can have detrimental effects on brain development and intellectual capabilities and increases the likelihood of later alcohol dependence. The current study notes that the majority of hazardous adolescent drinkers, 68.2%, were under the legal age of consumption. Therefore, off-licences and pubs should be monitored continuously. There needs to be improved policing of the law regarding under age adolescents purchasing alcohol, in addition to responsible bar staff training.

Previous research has noted the impact of advertising and marketing aimed at adolescents in their formative years. The promotion of alcohol in areas such as sport and music is becoming increasingly prevalent, and evidence shows that alcohol marketing increases the likelihood that adolescents will begin to drink, or drink more if they already consume alcohol. The protective effects of a full ban on alcohol sponsorship of sporting events have been demonstrated in previous studies. This evidence-based approach to reducing alcohol-related harm should be introduced by the Government. We are pleased to see the introduction of a minimum unit price for alcohol, as proposed in the current Bill. This has been proven to be an effective measure when tackling hazardous alcohol consumption across the population.

Over the previous number of decades, alcohol consumption has continued to increase despite public health efforts. Education campaigns were regularly favoured when tackling alcohol consumption. However, these campaigns have been shown to be ineffective. Currently, the cost to the taxpayer of hazardous alcohol consumption in Ireland is €3.7 billion annually. By introducing this Bill, the Oireachtas has the opportunity to improve the lives of Irish people. It has the opportunity to save 88 lives every month which are currently lost to alcohol-related disease. It provides us with the opportunity to protect vulnerable children affected by their parents' alcohol consumption, as seen in every community across the country. It provides us with an opportunity to make a difference.

That was an excellent presentation with some revealing statistics.

I extend sincere congratulations to Mr. Ian O'Sullivan and Ms Eimear Murphy on their wonderful achievement in the BT Young Scientist Competition in 2015. This is a great credit to both of them and to their school in Kanturk. I congratulate the teaching staff and all involved. The presentation was excellent and, as they indicated, as legislators we have an opportunity to make an impact. The witnesses were in the visitors' area during the earlier session. We all committed to ensuring the passage of the proposed legislation even though we have varying degrees of confidence, or a lack of confidence, in some of the measures. The critical point made by the Minister is that this will be up for review after three years. That is where we have the opportunity to measure its effectiveness. It is down to its effectiveness, which we will debate and discuss. It is a good thing to have a variety of views reflected here.

I am interested in the correlation between hazardous drinking habits in young people or adolescents and hazardous drinking habits in their parents. There are a number of statements about this likelihood. One of the figures is that 34% of adults surveyed displayed hazardous drinking patterns, representing 39.6% of males and 29.9% of females. The witnesses went on to state that 47% of all parents surveyed were hazardous drinkers. Did the witnesses extrapolate a percentage for the relationship between the young males, the young females and the parents with hazardous drinking habits? The figures are not included in the presentation. Do the witnesses have the figures? If they do not have them readily available to answer the question, I fully understand. Perhaps it can be furnished us in the future. I am curious to know, of the hazardous-drinking parents, how many of the young males with hazardous drinking habits came from those families, and equally for the females.

It is a very telling point. There are all sorts of possible outcomes. I know many young people who have experienced, or are experiencing, difficulties in their home environments because one or both parents drink. They would be very much opposed to the use of alcohol, never mind its abuse. There are varying degrees of reaction, down to the individual make-up of the young person, the degree of their exposure and its impact on the quality of life in the home. What were the witnesses’ findings in that relationship quotient, as it applied to parents and the young males and females concerned? I thank the witnesses and congratulate them on their success, and I wish them every success in their future studies and career paths.

I welcome Ian and Eimear to the committee and congratulate them on their fantastic achievement in winning the Young Scientist of the Year award last January. I say this with some emotion because their families are present today and I have known them extremely well for many years. The award gives the witnesses a great opportunity. They have achieved a great deal.

In the last line of their presentation they said the Oireachtas had an opportunity to make a difference, but the witnesses have made an enormous difference. There should be a major public discussion about alcohol consumption and abuse, involving everybody - parents and children. We have been shirking our responsibilities in regard to it. The witnesses’ diligent research will have an enormous impact on public health policy for generations to come. I congratulate them too on the great enthusiasm and dedication with which they have conducted their public meetings in the months since winning the competition. I also congratulate the management and staff of Coláiste Treasa in Kanturk, who gave them great help and support. It is a proud moment for everyone in the school and for the Duhallow region in general.

The night they won and the night they came home there was a sense of genuine goodwill and euphoria, unlike that at many functions I have attended where there are different agendas. All those involved in this research from University College Cork and Coláiste Treasa, and most importantly, Ian and Eimear, have made an enormous difference to the serious, genuine and open discussion that our society must have about our relationship with alcohol, as discussed with the Minister for Health at the earlier part of this meeting. We must tackle our relationship with alcohol for economic as well as personal reasons.

I too welcome Ian and Eimear here today. I want to say “Wow!” but I am not sure whether that is for winning the Young Scientist of the Year Award or for their presentation today. Both deserve huge congratulations.

All too often, when people talk about alcohol and young people they think about young people’s consumption, but the witnesses have turned the issue on its head. They have provided not only their own evidence but also the statistics on which we need to base our work. That is very useful. This is a children’s rights issue, for those children who consume alcohol and also because of the indirect effects of alcohol consumption on children and young people, including domestic violence, which has clear links to alcohol.

One figure that jumped out at me is that one-fifth of parents surveyed were not concerned about their child being supplied with alcohol by another parent. One-fifth of parents are not concerned that other adults can flout the law and buy alcohol for children. I find that really startling. I had assumed that the people who did that were not parents. I hope that figure, as well as the other research, gets headlines. Parents and adults must think about that and answer serious questions. Why is it okay to introduce alcohol to children and adolescents when we know its harmful effects?

I am also interested in what Ian and Eimear said about sport and music and the promotion of alcohol. They were present for our last session on this issue. They call clearly for a ban on alcohol sponsorship of sports. We should perhaps send this presentation to the Minister for Health, given that it contains some evidence for this call.

They met the Minister yesterday.

That is excellent. There is a question of normalising alcohol consumption and making it socially acceptable, which is very important and comes across in the study. We on the committee feel very strongly about the legislation. I did not think I could feel more strongly, but this presentation shows me as a legislator why we need to do more and to bring the Public Health (Alcohol) Bill 2015 into law.

We also need to shine a spotlight on the role of parents and adults in young people’s lives. That is a call to action to us as legislators when talking about alcohol-related harm or alcohol consumption. I thank Ian and Eimear for giving me the evidence for that.

I thank Ian and Eimear for their presentation this morning. When I proposed to the committee that it invite them after they won the Young Scientist of the Year Award I did not think it would be on the same day that the Minister came here. They can see how significant their research is for framing policy. This shows the influence their work can have. It deserves the recognition it is getting, because it is very comprehensive research. I also thank the staff of their school and their parents for their support, and everyone who took part in the survey, because without the participants they would not have been able to get the information.

While they were doing the survey, and in the time since then, did it come across that parents and young people were aware of the health risks associated with excessive drinking?

One of the figures included in the research was that 47% had normal a BMI and a breakdown was given between men and women. I am open to correction on my figures, but it appears that 67.9% of men did not have a normal BMI. Outside of the alcohol issue, other issues were identified in the health survey that we have overlooked. This is an issue. Do Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy think people were aware of the risks associated with excessive drinking, particularly young people? They have the experience of conducting all of this research. What do they consider would have the effect of getting the message across to people that excessive drinking damages health? I referred to Dr. Orla Crosbie's paper last week in which she identified that young women were coming to her attention with serious liver problems, cirrhosis, which she did not see 20 years ago. How do we get the message across to young people and parents?

I welcome Ms Eimear Murphy and Mr. Ian O'Sullivan and offer my huge congratulations to them on their fantastic achievement. I thank them for their excellent presentation. It is a huge volume of work and they have shared some interesting but shocking statistics. We have a major problem in this country with alcohol. The reason we have a minimum age - 18 years - for consumption is health. Not alone is it shocking, but it is also outrageous that one fifth of parents surveyed would not be concerned if another parent was to supply their adolescent with alcohol. The age limit is 18 years of age for a reason and no parent should supply an under-age child with alcohol. Furthermore, it is outrageous that parents would accept it.

Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy said there was a need for improved policing of the law on under-age adolescents purchasing alcohol, in addition to having responsible bar staff. In my view, there is a need for improvement in policing the law in the case of parents supplying under-age children with alcohol. I cannot get over the fact that the statistic is so high, at 20%. It is outrageous. I made a point to the Minister on which he was not sold. It was about increasing the age at which alcohol could be purchased from an off-licence to 21 years. I was thinking about the difference in the gap between a 22 and a 23 year old supplying alcohol to a 15 or a 16 year old. I am beginning to think the Minister might have been right if parents are supplying it. What do Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy think of my proposal?

I welcome Mr. Ian O'Sullivan and Ms Eimear Murphy to the joint committee and thank them for their presentation. I congratulate them on winning the BT Young Scientist competition. I include in my congratulations their parents, school and all those who supported them in this endeavour. The research they have produced is, to say the least, disappointing from the point of view of parents. In some aspects, it is shocking and highlights for parents and committee members their responsibility when it comes to under-age drinking and over-indulgence in alcohol. One of the telling paragraphs in the presentation is at the end and it puts the whole thing in a nutshell. Referring to the Oireachtas, the presentation states:

It has the opportunity to save 88 lives every month which are currently lost to an alcohol related disease. It has the opportunity to protect vulnerable children affected by their parent's alcohol consumption as seen in every community across the country. It has the opportunity to make a difference.

I hope we will make the difference, in particular, in the legislation we discussed earlier this morning. I also hope the presentation, of which the Minister is aware, will feed into the legislation and ensure we will have strong laws in place that will be policed and effective. I further hope the Minister will take into account the banning of sports sponsorship and question of online advertising. I thank Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy for their presentation and again say, "Well done."

I missed the beginning of the presentation, but I have read it. We receive lots of in-depth reports, some of which include many statistics. Many of them cost a great deal of money to put together, but I have never seen anything as comprehensive as this one, which did not cost a great deal of money to compile. It took the initiative of two very young people to establish what our drinking habits were, on which I congratulate them.

When the research was conducted and the study concluded, what was the reaction of the students and parents who had participated? Were Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy disappointed that of the 982 people who had been given the questionnaire, only 37% had responded? I might have missed it, but was there a figure for the number of parents who did not drink? Of the parents surveyed, 47% were hazardous drinkers, something that jumped off the page for me. I agree with my colleagues about the parents who were not worried that their children might drink even one pint a month. They were not at all worried that they were actually breaking the law by telling their children to do this.

This is a wonderful piece of work, for which Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy deserve every credit. I had another question, but it has slipped from my mind, which comes with age. I again thank Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy, their parents, their school and all those who participated. If my other question comes back to me, I will come back in and ask it.

I am not a member of the joint committee, but I am particularly pleased to be present, not least because of the subject matter but also to welcome Mr. Ian O'Sullivan and Ms Eimear Murphy. As indicated by my constituency colleague, Deputy Michael Moynihan, it is a particular honour for us in the constituency to have the BT Young Scientist winners coming from Coláiste Treasa in Kanturk. I salute the achievements of Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy, their families and school.

As legislators, we are preoccupied with changing the law, but what jumps off the page for me is the fact that changing the law would be relatively easy. The ingrained nature of alcohol abuse has become a cultural norm and it is much more difficult to change human patterns of behaviour. We can ban advertising and deal with the issue of cost, but we have a societal issue to which we must face up. In that context, we would like to think that when history is written, 2015 will be considered to have been a watershed year when the Government, society, academia and the medical profession moved and BT recognised something for the first time in many years.

For the first time in many years, the nature of the project that won the BT Young Scientist award was not technical, not one that scared the living daylights out of us; rather it was a social project that most of society could acknowledge and respond to by sitting up and taking notice of a problem that was a ticking time bomb. According to the final paragraph in the submission, it is costing us €3.7 billion. The culmination of everything I have outlined will ensure 2015 will be a watershed moment. However, changing the law is much easier than changing the cultural norms evident in the research.

Interestingly, the final paragraph reads:

Education campaigns were regularly favoured when tackling alcohol consumption. However, these campaigns have been shown to be ineffective.

Is this a criticism of the principle behind education campaigns? I am aware, as I am sure our guests' school community are, of the inclination to add to schools' responsibilities; for example, they must educate students about alcohol awareness, the importance of fitness, etc. Responsibility for solving all ills is dumped on schools, but is that the nature of how we try to inform younger people? Do our guests share my opinion that it is not that education does not have a role to play but that we must act at a much earlier age? At secondary school level it is probably too late. I am in favour of doing this in primary school and confronting fifth and sixth class children with graphic presentations showing the consequences of alcohol abuse. With due respect to the Pioneer movement which does excellent work, I am unsure whether its format - perhaps I have a dated perception of the movement - of highlighting the evils of alcohol abuse will change people. Instead, role models, be they sports people or reformed alcoholics, could confront young people with the reality of what it is like to be that person who suffers from alcohol abuse and show its impact on them personally, their families, communities, health, financial standing and relationships with their partners and children. It is not that education has failed, rather it is down to the way we have done it. I would be in favour of earlier and a more graphic confrontation of the issue in the education system.

I congratulate our guests. It is tremendous research that, in essence, summarises the problems we face. Changing the law would be the easy part; changing societal norms willl be much more challenging.

Before I hand back to Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy, if Mr. Davoren and Mr. Smith wish to comment on the questions asked or analysis of the presentation, they are more than welcome to do so at this juncture.

Mr. Bobby Smith

I add my congratulations to Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy. As someone who has conducted some research in this area, I was impressed and a little jealous when I read the report. It was an area of study I had considered exploring, but had never been able to come up with an easy way of doing it. This is not to say Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy's methodology was easy; it is comprehensive. It is fabulous that they obtained information from teenagers and parents. Others have considered parents or teenagers alone, but having both is what makes it fascinating. It is great to have Irish evidence that confirms what has been observed internationally, that parents exert a significant influence and that liberal or casual attitudes on the part of parents towards their own or their teenagers' drinking increase risk.

Senator Jillian van Turnhout and Deputy Sandra McLellan appeared upset and surprised at the number of parents who had seemed to be providing alcohol for teenagers. I speak to parents regularly in schools. By the time teenagers reach the age of 16 or 17 years, many parents believe they are doing the right thing by giving their children alcohol. Once they have made that decision, some of them also believe it is okay to allow other parents to offer drink in what they view as a controlled environment. For whatever reason, they have been caused to believe drinking by teenagers is inevitable. As a result, they give permission in a misguided effort to exert control. However, the international evidence and this new Irish evidence indicates that once teenagers are given permission by parents to drink alcohol, they seem to give themselves permission to drink even more than they are already drinking. Rather than helping, it makes matters worse. There is, therefore, a lack of understanding. There is a middle class notion that, by giving kids alcohol at home, one is somehow doing the right thing when, in fact, it does not work.

To respond to Deputy Michael Creed's comment on the Holy Grail, the ultimate challenge is to try to change cultural attitudes, not just towards drink particularly but specifically to getting drunk. As a society, we have a particularly tolerant attitude towards getting drunk, whether one is 16 or 60 years of age. However, I am optimistic that legislation is an important first step. For example, in terms of drink driving, it seems that the legislation came first and the shift in attitude followed. It is a clear message from our leaders - that is what committee members are - for the first time ever in identifying alcohol as a health issue and putting in place measures to begin turning the tide. This will assist the public. In fact, there already appears to be momentum among the public towards recognising this as a health issue, about which we as individuals, adults, teenagers and parents need to do more.

Mr. Martin Davoren

I agree with Mr. Smith in that this is a cultural shift. The Bill is a great first step in tackling in a meaningful way Ireland's relationship with alcohol. For a long time price has been shown to have an impact on consumption patterns. In the past 20 years, if the rate of excise duty decreased, the level of consumption increased. The introduction of minimum pricing can drive the issue forward.

Questions arose about the response rate to the survey, at approximately 37%. In surveys such as this which includes adolescents and their parents and in respect of which informed consent was gained it is difficult to achieve very high response rates. As a local electoral area was sampled, however, it is representative of the general population, with an urban-rural mix. It provides a comprehensive overview of alcohol consumption patterns among adolescents and their parents. It also maps nicely into the report of the Health Research Board, with the consumption patterns among parents being similar.

Ms Eimear Murphy

I shall answer one of the questions asked. We could not divide male adolescents from female adolescents because their numbers were too small. If we return to this work, we would like to examine that point. We did not ask whether people knew what the effects of alcohol were. As such, we do not know whether they knew.

We were also asked why we did not examine hazardous drinking by adolescents and parents. We used the system of univariate logistic regression which gives stronger evidence.

Mr. Ian O'Sullivan

There was a question on how we could get the message across about the effects of alcohol on young people. Given the nature of our study, we suggest the introduction of a parenting programme which has shown evidence of being effective in reducing alcohol use in pre-teens and adolescents. It would be about letting parents know, instead of adolescents. Parents have a significant effect on their adolescents.

Increasing the age limit to 21 years was mentioned. Improved policing of the current age limit would be better. We could change the age limit, but it might not make a difference if it was not enforced. We know that most people buy alcohol for themselves. They do not have to get others to buy it for them.

Is that a common occurrence, even though the age limit is 18 years and one is meant to have some form of ID?

Ms Eimear Murphy

Yes.

Does it happen in a shop, at a petrol station, in an off-licence or a combination of all of three?

Mr. Ian O'Sullivan

This would be more in pubs and clubs. Most people would not go to off-licences to buy. In general, they would be on a night out.

Ms Eimear Murphy

If they are under age, they will use somebody else's ID to gain admittance and then they will not be asked for ID inside.

Mr. Ian O'Sullivan

Once they get in, they are not asked for it.

The question was asked whether people were surprised by the results. It was mainly adults who were surprised. Most young people were not at all surprised.

On the issue of education, as somebody said already, education informs behaviour, but does not change it. Education is important, but it is not enough on its own.

In the presentation you made a strong point about the increasing prevalence of the promotion of alcohol in the areas of sport and music.

Mr. Ian O'Sullivan

Yes. Perhaps Mr. Davoren will speak on that.

Mr. Martin Davoren

Recently, a Scottish study found that children in primary and secondary schools more easily recognise alcohol brands than biscuit brands. We are, therefore, starting to see a real shift in pattern because children of primary and secondary school age are so overly exposed to alcohol advertising through sports, TV advertising, print media advertisements and billboard advertisements. These advertisements are not aimed at a specific group, but at everybody. We see a link between this and what children recognise.

Did an awareness of the risks arise at all in the survey? Were people aware of the health risks and was that seen as an issue?

Ms Eimear Murphy

That was not a question in the survey, so we have no information on that.

Mr. Ian O'Sullivan

We just asked about the patterns, not about what they thought.

Was there any indication at all of awareness of risk?

Mr. Ian O'Sullivan

No. We just did not ask that question.

Based on your observations, having done the project and being teenagers in the context of this discussion, have you any thoughts on what might or might not work? As Deputy Creed said, we are here to present, articulate and implement policy, but we cannot change cultural behaviour and patterns of behaviour. Based on your research and experience, have you a view on what we should do or what might work?

Mr. Ian O'Sullivan

We would definitely back up the minimum unit price, because young people only have a certain amount of money to spend. If they can only buy less, they will drink less. That would be one solution.

On behalf of the committee, I thank Mr. O'Sullivan and Ms Murphy and congratulate them on their excellent work and their award. I thank their parents, families, school and school community for the support and encouragement they have given them and commend them on their initiative. I hope they are enjoying their fame and wish them well in their future studies. I should also thank their teacher, Mr. Derry Donovan, and I thank Mr. Davoren and Mr. Smith for attending.

I remind members that the Select Committee on Health and Children will meet at 10 a.m. on Thursday, 30 April 2015 and there will be no meeting of the joint committee.

The joint committee adjourned at 12.25 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 7 May 2015.
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