I have received apologies from Deputy Gabrielle McFadden, who cannot attend.
The purpose of this meeting is to have an engagement with the Garda Commissioner, Ms Nóirín O'Sullivan, on the recently published policing plan, the changes she has made since taking up office and her future plans for the force. I ask members to stick to the policing plan even though they may be interested in wandering off into other areas.
We will stick to the plan.
Exactly.
So much for democracy.
If members wish to raise other issues at another time, I am sure that the Commissioner will facilitate us by returning to deal with them. The briefing on the annual policing plan 2015 has been circulated to members. I ask everyone to turn off mobile telephones or put them on aeroplane mode or some mode that does not interfere with the sound system, please.
I welcome the Commissioner and her team and thank them for attending. I will ask the Commissioner to make a brief opening statement of five or six minutes, after which we will have a questions and answers session with members. We will see where that leads us. I call on the Commissioner to introduce her team and commence.
Before we begin, I must draw the witnesses' attention to the privilege situation. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members should also be aware that, under the salient rulings of the Chair, they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.
The floor is the Commissioner's.
I will introduce the team. On my right is Mr. Kieran Kenny, Assistant Commissioner with responsibility for the northern region and risk in the Garda organisation. On my immediate right is Mr. Dónall Ó Cualáin, Assistant Commissioner with responsibility for the western region. He and Mr. John Twomey, who is on my left and is the Assistant Commissioner with responsibility for the Dublin metropolitan region and traffic, are leading the transformation programme with my colleague on my immediate left, Mr. Cyril Dunne, our chief administrative officer, and with Mr. Michael Culhane, our executive director of finance. Behind me are two more colleagues, Mr. Aidan Glacken, chief superintendent with responsibility for the strategic transformation office, and Mr. Andrew McLindon, our director of communications.
I thank the committee for its invitation to attend today and to outline An Garda Síochána's priorities for 2015 and the years ahead. Undoubtedly, the past few years have been challenging for the Garda. Like all public sector bodies, we have had to do more with less. We have met those challenges. We have also learned some difficult lessons on which we are determined to build. Most importantly, we want to build on our strengths, such as the professionalism, commitment and dedication of our people to provide the best possible policing service to the communities we serve.
Our 2015 policing plan focuses on how we are going to commence on our journey of reform, change and continuous improvement, particularly in terms of our structures, culture, technology and service delivery. It is important to stress at the outset that we see this as a journey and, like any journey, it will take time, a determined effort and resolve. There will be successes and failures. There will be diversions and the need to evolve and adapt agilely along the way. Throughout, we will keep to our vision of what we want to achieve, that is, a world-class police service for the people and communities of this country and in which people can have pride. This approach has informed the 2015 policing plan, as has feedback from our staff, oversight bodies like the Garda Síochána Inspectorate, the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission and committees such as this forum, the public, other stakeholders, the Minister for Justice and Equality, who has outlined her priorities, and the communities that we serve.
The message from the feedback was loud and clear. What people want is a professional community-focused police service in which they can have confidence, trust and pride. To meet this goal, we have developed a new operating model that focuses on five strands. In the first instance, we want to prevent people from becoming victims of crime and to reduce victimisation. As in any society, we want to ensure that people are supported when they become the victims of crime. We want to focus on proactive crime operations and investigation, education and awareness, and working in partnership with all relevant stakeholders, including the community.
Crime prevention will be at the core of everything we do, with the aim of reducing victimisation. We are committed to protecting communities and individuals from the dangers and harm associated with crime, drugs, domestic-related crime including burglaries, domestic violence and other forms of violence. However, when a crime occurs, as it does in any society, we will ensure that it is professionally, thoroughly and properly investigated.
National security is an integral part of protecting communities nationally and internationally against the threat of terrorism, as are proactive, intelligence-led operations targeting organised crime groups and individuals involved in criminality in all its forms. We will maintain a strong focus on protecting the State and its people against all forms of terrorism and on tackling serious crime, such as organised crime, violent crime, cyber crime and white-collar crime.
Reducing road deaths is a key concern. We have come a long way in the past decade and the number of road deaths this year so far are down on last year, but one death on our roads is one too many and we will continue our strategy of enforcement and education that, along with other stakeholders, has seen this country have one of the best road safety records in Europe.
We are acutely aware that it is critical for us to deliver these policing services while also making significant changes to the way we operate.
I have continually stressed to the organisation that we will be taking a twin track approach of continuing our core duty of protecting communities and the security of the State, while ensuring the necessary changes are made. It is vital for us to do both, and we will. In doing this, however, we need the help and support of communities. We have a proud history of community policing but I recognise that events over the last year have impacted on trust levels in An Garda Síochána. We are determined to strengthen our relationship with communities through closer engagement and partnerships. It is important that in making these changes we build on the good aspects of An Garda Síochána, of which there are many. One of the most critical of these are our people. Day in, day out they demonstrate their commitment to communities around the country. As leaders, our job is to ensure we can enhance their capabilities through training, development and support.
In making these changes, we took on board the numerous internal and external reports, as well as internal and external feedback, and distilled them into a strategic transformation programme. This programme has prioritised the changes we need to make in terms of risk, benefits and community impact. We are currently finalising the long-term roadmap for the programme and this will include putting in place internal and external governance structures to monitor its implementation. One of the first elements of the programme is the 2015 policing plan. The plan will act as a bridge to our next corporate strategy, which we are currently developing.
Other elements of the transformation programme have also been implemented. A strategic transformation office has been established to make sure the changes under the transformation programme are delivered correctly and on schedule, and to measure and monitor their impact. We have also established what we describe as a transformational spine to make sure the effects of the improvements are felt throughout the organisation and on the front line. Risk compliance and continuous improvement offices have been set up in each region, headed by a superintendent, to deliver changes at regional level in a standard and consistent way, as well as to support continuous improvement in day-to-day business. I recently appointed or re-allocated 90 senior officers to bring fresh thinking and leadership to critical areas of policing. We have created new units to more effectively leverage expertise in particular areas, such as organised crime, domestic and sexual violence and human exploitation. Detective superintendents in the regions have been charged with delivering a co-ordinated and effective approach to crime operations and investigation.
We have also developed a methodology built around three themes to deliver these changes. It is not about change for the sake of change but about making sure we continuously improve the service we provide to the community. Put simply, we are going to fix the identified deficiencies; build the processes, systems or structures required to solve the problem; and then operate the solution to the highest standard to deliver benefits to the organisation, the citizen and the State. As an example of how this would work at an operational level, we identified looking after victims of crime as a priority area through our own surveys and on foot of recent reports. The Garda Síochána Inspectorate’s recent report and surveys of victims of crime have found that An Garda Síochána generally provides a good service to victims of crime but many felt disappointed by the lack of information and consistency in delivery of the service. We identified this issue as a key priority. Our fix was to provide for a more consistent and standard approach to dealing with victims of crime. Our build strand involves the implementation of divisional victim service centres that will provide a central point of contact for any questions, issues or problems victims of crime are experiencing as their cases are being investigated and moving through the criminal justice system. We have commenced the roll-out of these centres in every division to ensure that treatment of victims at a traumatic time in their lives will be consistent and standardised. The centres will be operated by specially trained staff working to a standard operating procedure, which should ensure the delivery of a professional and consistent service whether it is in Donegal or Dingle. This is a concrete example of how our fix-build-operate approach to change works. The approach will also be applied to a range of other areas, such as crime prevention, crime investigation, and community policing.
For such reforms to happen, however, there needs to be a number of key enablers. We need the right people in the right places at the right times. This requires a steady stream of Garda students, the acquisition of professional skills to augment policing, more training and development so that our people have the right skills, competencies and capabilities and the proper systems for managers to be able to deploy people more effectively and measure the impact of their deployment. We have started this process, with 299 students in the Garda college and new training programmes in the process of being delivered and developed. In terms of technology, as the Garda Síochána Inspectorate has noted, significant investment is required to bring us in line with other police services and to modernise the systems that will enable us to deliver this service. We have adopted a new approach that moves us from a short-term view based on making do to one that involves planning and building for the future. Further changes, such as providing regions with more responsibility and accountability through strengthened central oversight and reduced bureaucracy, are in the pipeline. We will develop more stringent governance and accountability mechanism in preparedness for the establishment of the policing authority. To ensure all our changes have a lasting impact, they will be underpinned by behaviour that emulates the values of honesty, accountability, professionalism and respect.
The men and women of An Garda Síochána are committed to continually improving the service we provide to the community but we cannot do so alone. By working in collaboration and partnership with agencies and communities, I strongly believe we can provide a professional, victim centred and community-focused human rights based police service. It will require time, careful analysis and a structured approach but it will happen. We will deliver a world-class police service that sets the standard for others to follow and be a source of pride for the people of this country. My team and I are happy to take whatever questions members of the committee members might have.
I thank the Commissioner for her comprehensive overview. I will now invite members to ask questions. The committee agreed earlier that we would initially limit each member to asking three questions and we can then return to a member if he or she wishes to raise another issue.
I congratulate the Commissioner on her appointment and thank her for a comprehensive presentation. She has hit the ground running in regard to where she is bringing the force. Does she envisage recommending to the Government the closure of any more rural Garda stations in the next year or two?
No, at this time we have no intention of closing any more Garda stations.
That is good to know. The Commissioner spoke about the victims of crime. In the UK a system is in place whereby victims can track their crimes online. That seems to be working very well and it has instilled confidence in victims of crime in that country. Are there plans to introduce something similar in Ireland?
We are aware of the initiatives in the UK and in putting together our transformation programme we examined other police services. Tracking for the victims of crime is an initiative we are currently exploring and we will evaluate its potential impact here.
The Commissioner referred to the threat of international terrorism. Does she think that threat has increased in this country, is she concerned about it and does she think the Government is providing the necessary support to counteract it?
We are very mindful of what is happening in the international sphere, particularly in respect of international terrorism. This is due not least to the events in Tunisia last week. It is something we monitor closely with our international law enforcement and security partners.
It is important to say that we enjoy a very good relationship with minority communities who, by and large, are very moderate. Nevertheless we must be mindful of what is happening in the international sphere, particularly in terms of the self-radicalisation of individuals over the Internet and the possibility of lone-wolf attacks or trigger events that may happen in this jurisdiction or in other jurisdictions that may impact on us. We monitor that very closely. We have a number of counter-terrorism strategies in place to deal with those issues and we have a number of contingency plans ourselves and with other agencies, and with international security partners. We monitor closely and we have a number of dedicated resources who work on the counter-terrorism and the counter-intelligence areas and we will continue monitoring the situation very closely. It is important to say there is no specific threat in this jurisdiction, but we are mindful of events as they unfold around Europe in particular.
Thank you Commissioner, thank you Senator. I ask all members to please make their remarks through the Chair. I call Deputy Ferris.
I had two questions but Senator Conway gave me an idea in regard to his question on whether there were any plans to close down more rural stations. Does the Commissioner have any plans to reopen stations that have been closed down in recent years?
Not at this point. The deployment of Garda resources is something we keep under very close monitoring but our focus is on making sure that the gardaí are out and engaged with the community in the communities where they are based. On that basis, we would have no intention at this stage of reopening any of the Garda stations that are closed.
The Commissioner referred to gardaí being out on their beat. It is very important to people in towns, villages and in rural areas to see high visibility policing on the street. I am a great fan of the joint policing committees, JPCs. I have been a member and still am a member of the committees in Wicklow. The Commissioner is intending to enhance the roles of the joint policing committees and perhaps she could give us some more details about that?
We are looking at ways we can enhance co-operation, engagement and partnership with the community. We will be looking at how we can do some of that through the JPCs and the local policing fora - we have some very good examples around the country of how that works in the spirit of true partnership, looking at joint solutions to problems that are affecting communities. For example, if we look at the text alert scheme which has been a phenomenal success, we will consider how we can roll that out and get more people engaged in looking at coming up with joint problem solving ideas. We will be looking to see how we can use the JPCs more as a forum to do that, along with the local policing fora and the neighbourhood watch schemes.
That would be great because certainly in Bray we get text alerts if there is going to be flooding, so it would be a great idea for that kind of thing to be run by the JPC.
The committee published its report on domestic and sexual violence last year and I was the rapporteur of that committee. We made a number of suggestions because many victims were very concerned at the way statements and photographs are taken and the delays in that process. The Commissioner undertook to take this on board. She has mentioned in her submission about providing a professional, victim-centred and community-focused police service. That is very welcome and I believe it is already in train and can be seen, and I congratulate the Commissioner on that. Can the Commissioner let us know about statements and about getting photographs taken straightaway in regard to victims who present at Garda stations? This would enable us to go back to the organisations that appeared before the committee on this issue.
The work of the committee in regard to domestic violence and sexual violence was very useful. We used it to inform our decision to set up a dedicated unit looking at domestic violence, sexual assault investigations and at all areas of human exploitation. Part of that will be using some of the work of the committee in developing standard operating procedures, SOPs, so the experience will be the same and that we will have especially trained people. As the committee knows, we already have specialist child interviewers and we have some people specially trained in taking statements because obviously it is a very traumatic time for people. We are very conscious of the impact it has on individuals - on individual victims and sometimes witnesses, making the type of statements that are expected from them and having to attend the sexual assault treatment units - and of being able to support people through that, working with the NGOs, and the other agencies involved in that. The new unit, the domestic violence and sexual assault investigation unit, will develop the standard operation procedures. The unit, along with our Garda professional standards unit, will also be monitoring the implementation of those SOPs and making sure that the service is continually improved. We will also be looking for the feedback of the various groups involved.
I join my colleagues in welcoming Commissioner Nóirín O'Sullivan and all of her team and I congratulate her on her promotion. She has a very difficult task ahead of her but I know it is a great honour to be made Garda Commissioner and I want to wish her well in the future. The witness mentioned organised crime and the response of the Garda to it. This is an issue, particularly in urban areas, where whole estates, whole streets and families are intimidated. They are even afraid to go to the Garda. At what level does the Commissioner think organised crime is currently and what is the Garda response to it?
I thank the Deputy. It is something on which we have a huge focus. One of the recent initiatives I undertook was to amalgamate and establish a new focus on the Garda national drugs and organised crime units. It puts additional resources to targeting organised crime and drugs because in fact they are inextricably linked. The Garda national drugs and organised crime unit, which the committee has seen in recent times has had some significant successes, will also be co-ordinating the work of some of the local units in targeting the impacts of organised crime and drugs on local communities. I am very mindful of the issue of intimidation, in particular around drug deaths. I know there was significant work done by this committee in regard to that. That is something we are looking at.
We also have a significant input into the new phase of the national drug strategy. While it has a big impact in urban areas, we are making sure that all our members in local areas are looking at the impact of drugs in rural areas also. We are making sure this is co-ordinated by the Garda national drugs and organised crime unit to make sure that impacts are addressed in local communities. We are looking at it at national and international level, but very much at the local and regional level also. I spoke about the role of the detective superintendents in the regions and they will very much form part of that role in terms of intelligence-led operations, targeting also those people operating at the lower level.
My next question is in regard to the amount of weapons available in broader society. I am talking in the region of 150,000 illegal weapons. We also have a debate within this committee, and in broader society, about the amount of legally held firearms. Would the Commissioner have any concerns about the huge amount of weapons, legal and illegal, held in society at large? Would she have any concerns about massacres which take place in schools or shopping centres or at social events because of easy access to firearms. Would she have concerns about that and the easy availability of firearms?
I know the work done by this committee and I know it has recently been in communication with the Minister. I understand the Minister will respond to you in terms of the legislature and the position what will be taken there. From the point of view of An Garda Síochána we are always mindful of any type of weapons that may be used in society to cause harm to others. Our primary concern is always around public protection and protecting communities and individuals within communities. Yes, we would have concerns in terms of any violence or weapons that are used to cause harm to any individual or any community around the country. It is something that, with the Garda national drugs and organised crime unit, we monitor very closely in terms of the impact that would have and in terms of any initiatives we can take to address any of those issues.
Deputy Finian McGrath can ask his final question.
My final question is a related but different question on the availability of legally held firearms. Is the Commissioner aware of any incidents or any cases where legally held firearms where used in criminal activities, whether they be murders or shootings or other incidents? For example, a citizen has sent me on an example of road signs down the country that were shot at, he suspects, by the owner of a legally held firearm. One can see that there has been high calibre rifle shots into the road signs. Would the Commissioner have any concerns about this? Has she any reports of incidents like this happening?
I am not aware of the specific incident to which the Deputy referred but it is important to state at the outset that the majority of licensed firearms owners are very law abiding and responsible people and have legitimate and lawful uses for the firearms that they are licensed to hold. Of course, people using firearms is of concern to us. I do not have the figures here but certainly there have been times when firearms licences have been revoked because people have not abided by the rules governing the licensing of firearms. I do not have those figures here but I can certainly make them available to the committee.
I can inform the Commissioner that we have not formally reported on our work yet. We are still in the middle of that and we will probably submit an interim report initially because it is quite a complex technical area, as the Commissioner will appreciate.
Yes.
Will the Commissioner come back with those figures?
Yes.
I thank the Commissioner. We will come back to Deputy Finian McGrath for further questions later. Deputy Farrell has three questions.
I welcome our guests and congratulate the Commissioner on her recent appointment. My first question is on the recent Garda Síochána Inspectorate report on ICT services and specifically on the PULSE system. There is a great deal of work that needs to be done. To go back to the previous conversation about firearms licensing, I know how difficult it was for PULSE to provide figures and statistics recently and I am aware that will be an ongoing issue. What are the Commissioner's views on the feasibility of implementing parts of the Garda Síochána Inspectorate report on PULSE and are there any issues within that report that the Commissioner believes will be difficult for the Garda Síochána to implement?
The Garda Síochána Inspectorate report is a very helpful report. It is extensive and elaborate and it contains over 211 recommendations. A significant number of those relate to ICT issues and some of them are specifically in relation to PULSE. I will ask Mr. Dunne to speak about our ICT strategy. We have used the report and previous reports that were carried out and some work that we had carried out ourselves on an ICT strategy to identify what are our ICT requirements. We very much welcome the commitment to modernise the ICT infrastructure and it will require significant investment. To ensure that we are doing that in the right way and in the right sequence, we have set up an ICT steering group which has identified the sequence of initiatives that we need to take.
The PULSE system contains an enormous amount of information. It is very useful information but in terms of providing figures, PULSE was not really designed to do that. Many other police forces are experiencing similar challenges. What is really interesting is that many of those police forces, such as Police Scotland, for example, are using a similar architecture to PULSE but are looking at integrating different applications into it. That is very much where our focus is at the moment, on establishing how we can build on the platform that we have and modernise it and make it much more effective in terms of being able to provide the type of data that is required. Mr. Dunne may be in a position to update the committee on where we are with it.
One of the things the Commissioner said in her opening statement was about moving from a situation where we are making do to a situation where we are looking at the long-term and planning for the long-term, and that is very much the case with the ICT side. It is worthwhile to say in this forum that many police services across the world would give their right arm to have PULSE because the information that we have is probably second to none. One of the issues is the technical architecture on which it is built, because it is probably about 15 years old at this stage and the kind of technology that was available then is different to what is available now. The key difference is that the ability to respond and develop new applications - or apps that one would see on an iPad or mobile telephone - is simply not available on technology that was state of the art ten or 15 years ago. The challenge is to take the applications that we have and move them forward onto a new technology base.
In the last number of months we have looked very precisely and in a great level of detail at exactly what needs to be done to not just refresh and reinvigorate PULSE but also to look at, for example, case management systems, which were also identified by the inspectorate as being something that we could benefit from. Computer-aided despatch is another area that we could benefit a lot from. We have looked in great detail at exactly what we want to have to be able to provide the policing service that the Commissioner talks about, up to 2020 and beyond, and what it takes to do that, what the best sequence for implementation of that would be, the type of resources we would need, and everything associated with implementation and scheduling of that plan. That is now in place. To use the words that the Commissioner used earlier, it will be a journey. There will not be one fine day where we suddenly switch off what he have and switch on something new. We will refresh and reinvigorate the systems over a period of years but it is now well planned. We are not just making do.
Deputy Farrell can ask his second question.
I want to ask the Commissioner about the committee to which she referred that is working on the ICT side. When does she expect that report to be completed?
The work is well under way. We have a plan which forms an integral part of our overall transformation plan that is being finalised at the moment. We very much see the ICT part of that as a key enabler to help us deliver on the transformational journey that we are on. In terms of everything that Mr. Dunne has said in terms of sequencing, that all forms part of our transformational plan and the transformational journey. It forms part of the finalisation of our final document but it is well advanced and it is in its finalisation stage.
My next question is on resource allocation. Along with a number of other members, I have tabled a series of questions over a number of years on matters such as Garda vehicles and personnel. As this is the first time in a number of years that we will see additional members join the Garda Síochána and as we have invested quite heavily in Garda vehicles, could the Commissioner give the committee an idea of how the allocation of resources is decided upon, particularly in areas where there has been population growth or an increase in crime, or in inner city areas that have particularly bad records in terms of drugs or any other associated crimes of which the Commissioner is aware?
It is something that we are very conscious of and, as the Deputy will have heard in my opening submission, one of our key imperatives is having the right people in the right place at the right time. We are very conscious of shifting demographics over the last number of years as a result of the growth of different population centres and people moving out of urban areas to what would have been traditionally more rural areas. Now with the economic recovery we are looking at what that will mean. There are a number of variables that we want to factor in, including crime patterns and trends and emerging patterns and problems that we may not already have identified. The new executive director of human resources and people development and his team are very focused at the moment on developing an allocation model which factors in all of those variables to make sure that we have the people available.
We are looking at developing an allocation model that factors in all the variables. We must ensure that we have the manpower and the Garda vehicles. A significant investment was made in the fleet in recent times that meets the current needs but we must consider our fleet deployment and factor in the requirement for proper Garda vehicles in the future, taking account of the specification, the numbers and where they need to be allocated.
I welcome Commissioner O'Sullivan's response. Some members of the Garda Síochána have remarked on vehicles that go out of commission for a variety of reasons, for example soiling of the back seats. I tabled a parliamentary question recently on whether the use of leather or leatherette seating is more appropriate in 2015 in place of the current fabric covered seating, so that vehicles do not have to be taken out of service for a couple of days when cleaning of soiled back seats has to take place.
My third question relates to civilisation and the redeployment of gardaí. The Commissioner mentioned the need to have the right people in the right place. I am very aware since I joined this committee in 2012 that prior to the recruitment of the additional trainees who are currently in Templemore, a number of administrative positions were filled by members of the force, which could be delegated to civilians. I appreciate the constraints that applied to the public service and the limited scope for the recruitment of additional personnel. As a discussion point, could the Commissioner outline the number of gardaí who are engaged in administrative or non front-line roles that could serve on the front line? From a policing perspective what is the optimum number of Garda required to police the State?
That is a good question, which has been raised on a number of occasions. Has there ever been a study as to the optimum number of the force?.
There has been a number of attempts at studies to identify the optimum number of the force. It would be remiss of me if I did not say that police chiefs the world over would say the more resources they have the better. I am no different. The reality is that we are working on an operating model and are attempting to identify the baseline number that is required for front-line policing. It is important to say that high visibility policing, which Deputy Ferris mentioned, is a priority area. Deputy McGrath queried the specialist functions and specialist units and Senator Conway raised the question of international and domestic terrorism. It is very important that as well as high visibility policing we have the resources to provide the level of service to meet those specific functions.
Deputy Farrell asked about civilianisation, which we view very much as professionalisation. That is a very important shift in thinking that moves way beyond civilianisation. We are seeking to create a modern dynamic 21st century policing service. To do that we need professionalisation as civilianisation. We must ensure we get the right people with the competence, skills and capability to be able to provide and augment the service we provide to the community. In the past 12 months, we have employed an executive director of human resources and people development. We have identified policing analysts as a critical requirement for the future in terms of making sure we have evidence-based intelligence led policing information but also business information on the numbers required, so that we can model it and benchmark it against other police service and we can look at how we are doing in terms of professionalising the organisation. Our Department in conjunction with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform have started a competition in respect of providing policing analysts.
There are three strands to policing. We have front-line policing, and we need to ensure we have the capacity and capability to provide the specialist level of services that are needed throughout the organisation and we need to support all of that with the professionalisation of roles that can be done by people other than sworn members of the Garda. To do that we need to identify the correct skill set and competency. I mentioned the establishment of a strategic transformation office. It is populated at present with gardaí but we have identified the skills, competence and capability in terms of professionalisation that is needed to augment the structure and make it sustainable.
Members will be aware that a number of studies have been done in terms of civilianisation, but I think it has to move beyond ratios for civilianisation into professionalisation and developing professional capability.
I welcome the Commissioner and her team. I congratulate Ms O'Sullivan on her recent appointment and wish her well.
There is interference from a mobile telephone. Will members check as it interferes with the broadcasting system?
My question relates to the level of recruitment and the head-count of the force. Some recent statistics, supplied in a reply to a parliamentary question I submitted, state that as of 1 January 2015, the head count stood at 12,799. I was also informed that up to 500 people, on average, can be out sick on a given day of the week, in addition there are approximately 230 who are on an incentivised career break and the number who are eligible to retire today is 1,498. When one starts to do the additions and subtractions, one can see that the head-count in the force is under significant pressure.
If the Commissioner is to try to deliver her policing plan and roll out her strategies, she would be at a serious disadvantage if she did not have the main resource at her disposal, which is manpower. The Commissioner mentioned that at present, some 299 people are in training in Templemore. In approaching the job of providing a policing service for the country in the medium to long term, Ms O'Sullivan must engage in multi-annual planning. In this context how does she envisage the recruitment of personnel? The recruitment of 300 gardaí brings the head count up to 13,000, but the Commissioner must meet the challenges of replacing the numbers who are on sick leave in the short term or long term and providing for the number who will retire. What is the requirement for recruitment to maintain the force at the appropriate figure? It is a worry to try to compete with all the challenges that face her if she does not have the infusion of new people into the force. Given the exodus of eligible members, and given also that some 1,498 members, which is a significant number, can retire - I know they will not all retire in the same year or on the same day - will the Commissioner comment on that?
That links back to the question put by Deputy Farrell on the optimum number of the force. Have studies been conducted elsewhere in the world that have examined this? Deputy Collins may recall when we were in Scotland one of the questions that came up was the optimum number of police for a population and demographic structure similar to that in Ireland.
For the force to remain at 13,000 we would need a continuous recruitment of approximately 325 people per annum. We must look at how we maintain that number because as Deputy Collins has stated, there are variables. I mentioned the modelling exercise we are doing and the variable that need to be taken into account. It is not just the external demographic factor but the demographic make-up of the force. We are very conscious of the organisational demographic make-up of our own people. We are conscious of the gender breakdown and the fact that people may decide to opt for the family friendly policies we have in place. We are factoring in all of those variables.
I very much welcome the fact that recruitment has recommenced. The 299 people in training are very welcome. I would like to see that as the start of what will be a continuous process of recruitment. In terms of policing, it is a profession that requires ongoing continuous recruitment of individuals as well as ensuring that they are equipped, skilled and capable of going out and serving the people. I would very much like to see ongoing recruitment. The overall modelling we are doing is factoring in the external and internal demographic factors and making sure, in so far as possible, we identify the optimum numbers that we need to maintain the level of service we are providing. That is something we are watching very closely.
To respond to the Chairman's question on the optimum number, some police forces have tried to do this but it is not an exact science.
I believe we are very focused in the way we are looking at it - identifying the capacity requirements and capability gaps in requirements to actually sustain our transformation programme and, more important, to sustain the level of service we need to provide to the community. We do not have an exact number at this time, but we will have an estimated number. At the moment I would like to see it staying around 13,000 and increasing if possible.
From my own observation I believe recruitment of 325 per annum is on the conservative side when one looks at the numbers. People will have to take holidays and other factors -----
One thing strikes me. What is the capacity of the Templemore Garda College to train? How many recruits can it handle at any one time?
It depends on the size of the groups. We currently have 299 people in training. Some of those people have to live outside the college because of logistical issues at the college at the moment. This does not impact on the level of their training in any way. The college can actually accommodate groups of up to 150 at a time and we can keep those groups rolling.
What is the maximum throughput the college could train in a 12 month period?
We could certainly train 125 a quarter. We could manage those in groups without impacting on the quality of the training which people receive. Maybe Mr. Dunne could comment on that.
It is important to say that over 60% of the training or development of a newly recruited garda happens operationally out in the stations. That is something we must be careful about because the last thing we would want is to overburden the front line with a large increase in the numbers needing mentoring, training and ongoing development. This was picked up in some of the inspectorate reports, challenging us as to the level of support we are able to give at the front line to people who are undergoing that development. So it is not just a question of the physical capacity of Templemore - the ability to actually absorb and to properly develop people in the front line is also important.
This is an important point. Is the witness saying there is a barrier to recruitment in getting recruits out of Templemore and into the community and that there is a barrier in terms of absorbing those people into the course as it stands? Is that one of the factors which could limit the numbers of people An Garda Síochána could take in? Is that what he is saying?
As Mr. Dunne has said, we are very conscious, particularly in light of the Guerin report for example, that we want to make sure a significant part of training and development of individual members of An Garda Síochána is on-the-job training, particularly with the new training programme which the current batch of students is undergoing. These students will come out, fully attested with their powers, and they then go on the job. They will have garda tutors, coaching and mentoring locally in their stations. To make sure the balance is right in each Garda district and division to which student or probation gardaí are going, we factor in proper structure and infrastructures to support them in doing the job they have to do, particularly in terms of their training and development.
Is the witness saying that 500 recruits could be put through, at ease, per annum?
Yes.
The Deputy should ask his second question.
Thank you Chair. Are we under any time constraint?
Not at all, work away please.
I have been contacted by many Garda Reserve personnel, as have other members I am sure. There are approximately 1,100 of them - if I am right. Under the 2005 Act I believe it is limited to 10% of the force headcount. What is An Garda Síochána's plan to enhance the complement of Garda reserves that it has? People come to me as a public representative and tell me they have applied to become a member of the Garda Reserve for which one can apply online. The applications are sitting there with the Public Appointments Service not going anywhere. The point I make is that there are people out in the community who want to become Garda reserves and who want to give their time by way of service to their communities, working in conjunction with An Garda Síochána. Is there any plan or vision to expand the remit or role of the Garda Reserve, and grow it into a unit of the organisation similar to those in foreign jurisdictions, where it could become the feeder into the main force by way of recruitment?
The Garda Reserve members are not represented within the witnesses organisation. There is no representative organisation and many of the reserves feel undervalued. I say that with respect because that is what they are saying to me. They feel they are undervalued by Garda management. They do not have a co-ordinated, official voice. I believe the Commissioner should look at creating a formalised structure with them; there is the Garda Representative Association, the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors and various representative levels up through the force. I ask the Commissioner to comment on those points.
As part of our internal Garda survey, we surveyed all members of An Garda Síochána including the Garda Reserve. As Deputy Collins has said, it should absolutely be put on record that the Garda Reserve members are indicative of and the epitome of volunteerism in Irish society. They are people who come and give their own time, for very little remuneration, wanting to give something back to the communities in which they live and work. They are a very welcome asset to An Garda Síochána. We had a number of specific seminars for the Garda Reserve and the feedback we received and heard was exactly what Deputy Collins has said - that some members of the Garda Reserve perceived they did not have a particular point of contact where their voices could be heard. We are appointing a superintendent in charge of the Garda Reserve who will have responsibility for co-ordinating the Garda Reserve itself and who will also address any issues the reserves may want to bring to their attention. Each of the regional assistant commissioners will also hold a quarterly seminar with the reserves.
Regarding vision, we have identified a number of powers we will expand to the Garda Reserve. At the moment we are in the final stages of putting the necessary structures and training in place to ensure this can be implemented. The Garda reserves come from a wide range of communities and have a lot of skills. Many reserves are professional people and can bring a lot of skills to various aspects of the Garda organisation. We are exploring that at the moment to see where people could employ these skills to benefit them and the organisation. The Deputy also mentioned looking at a reserve stream. We are talking to the Public Appointments Service at the moment and exploring what options are available regarding that.
Finally I want to touch on the issue, already aired, of Garda stations. Can the Commissioner maybe reconsider the policy on this? I will give an example from my own constituency. Senator Heffernan is aware of this also. The Askeaton district in Limerick was merged into two neighbouring districts and the Garda station was effectively closed, operational for one or two hours a day. There was a public meeting six months ago and chief superintendent Dave Sheahan and the newly appointed superintendent Tom O'Connor came along. The community was very annoyed because there had been a spike in crime in the general area and they gave the members of An Garda Síochána who turned up that night a hard time. The chief superintendent, in fairness to him, undertook to go away and revisit the opening hours of the Garda station, within the capacity that he had in the area.
There were about 400 people at the public meeting. That was six months ago. There was a follow-up public meeting two weeks ago to which 20 people turned up. So the situation had greatly improved and there was credit due to the Garda Síochána and everybody within the community and the community council. I think there was a lesson to be learned from that. The station had effectively been closed and that situation was reversed so that it was open pretty much through normal operating hours every day and the public felt they were getting a better service and indeed they know that there is a Garda presence and visibility. That was the big issue that came to all of us when up to 150 Garda stations were closed, that there was a diminution of the presence and service in the particular area, whether it was perceived or not. I think, in particular, in relation to Stepaside and to Whitehall and to many of the stations that were closed around the country the Commissioner should revisit the issue. I know that it will not be practical in some of the locations because the properties have been sold by the OPW. I want to offer the Commissioner that as an experience that I have had, and I am sure others have had, as a public representative. I urge the Commissioner to reconsider opening some of them on a limited basis as a first instance and compare the results based on the experience of that.
Does the Commissioner wish to comment on that?
I thank the Deputy. Last Friday, the whole management team went to Limerick and we met with the local team in Limerick. The teams from Askeaton and Newcastle West, in particular, told us about some of the meetings that were held there recently so I am familiar with it. As I have said to Deputy Ferris, at this moment in time we do not have any plans to reopen Garda stations. I hear what Deputy Collins is saying and I think it is important in terms of crime to say that we are working on an anti-crime strategy. Operation Fiacla and the regional operations that supported that were very effective. We are evaluating those at the moment and in the coming weeks we will launch a new anti-crime strategy which will be very focused on the areas that the Deputy is talking about, not only the Limerick areas, but areas where pockets of crime are happening. It will also ensure that we have the agility to respond to it wherever it is happening. As the Deputy says, a lot of it is about reassuring the public and communities, particularly in rural areas. Certainly, as I said to Deputy Ferris, we are very focused on the level of community engagement that we have and looking at new ways of doing that and working in partnership.
Deputy Kenny has three questions.
I thank the Chairman and welcome the Commissioner to the committee and wish her every success in her new role. I may not need the full three questions because some of them have been asked already. I want to raise a question about crime and vandalism and how it impacts on public transport and what strategy the Garda Síochána has to deal with that. I am thinking, in particular, of DART stations in my constituency from Howth to Killester, about six or seven of them, which are regularly subjected to acts of vandalism. The week before last Bayside DART station was vandalised during the night time to such an extent that it was out of action for a number of hours the following morning. Vandalism has also occurred at Howth Junction and Kilbarrack stations. I heard today that Irish Rail is considering removing its staff from Kilbarrack and turning it into an unmanned station because of the level of vandalism that takes place there. This causes people to have a certain amount of fear. They will not travel late at night on the DART, particularly women, if they have to get off at an unmanned station. There is a real fear there and there is a certain vulnerability there for people who use public transport at night. What kind of strategies does the Garda Síochána have to deal with that kind of situation?
I would like to add a supplementary question to that of the Deputy. It was reported recently that some members of the criminal fraternity were using public transport, particularly main line trains, to avoid road checkpoints. Could the Commissioner link both of those questions?
Deputy Kenny makes an interesting point. Vandalism and anti-social behaviour in general have an effect on and increase fear in communities. I will ask Assistant Commissioner Twomey from the DMR to deal specifically with the Bayside and Kilbarrack issues.
We run a number of operations over the course of the year with the various public transport operators, be they Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann, DART or Luas. We have targeted operations where at different times of the year there will be members of the Garda Síochána on public transport, working very closely with their own security people to support them. We have had a number of very successful operations where an issue arises and we target it and they have been quite successful. Similarly, we will work with the management of each of these groups and we will assist them with what crime prevention measures they have at their stations to help with that. The specific incident that the Deputy mentions in Bayside is being investigated and it is hoped that the people involved will be brought before the courts in due course. We deal with it in a number of ways. We deal with the individual incidents as they arise. We investigate each and every one of those and we work with the operators at a more strategic level in terms of planned operations over the course of the year and help them with crime prevention at various different stations and how we can assist with that. CCTV is one area that we focus on specifically.
Can I ask a supplementary question about the Luas? Mr. Twomey mentioned the talks he was having with the operators of the Luas. There is a particular problem on the red line from The Point to Tallaght and particularly during the tourist season when people are coming and going by train from Heuston Station, a quite serious level of pickpocketing takes place on that Luas. The Luas lends itself to that because it is so easy to hop on and hop off whereas with other types of public transport one has to enter through a gate or get on through a door of a bus or something so there is a particular vulnerability there. Are there any particular strategies to deal with that kind of pickpocketing?
We have a specific policing operation with Luas. We meet the operators on a regular basis and we have had a number of very successful operations over the past 12 to 18 months targeting specific issues as they arise. Some of those have been very successful in terms of anti-social behaviour on the Luas lines and I think there has been considerable improvement as a result of the co-operation between the Garda Síochána and the Luas operators.
My last question is about anti-social behaviour in housing estates. I am thinking of housing estates in the Dublin 17 area. I attend the local joint policing committees and they play a very valuable role but there is still a particular problem in housing estates where there may be low level anti-social behaviour as well as the kind of behaviour that is related to crime and drugs. Very often people are forced to leave the area and to seek accommodation elsewhere because of the ongoing low level harassment and abuse and because children are afraid to go out to play. All of that kind of stuff continues and it has a very damaging effect on communities. There are certain areas where people are afraid to go to live because of this pattern of behaviour. As I say, I give credit to the gardaí in that particular area but I think there is a need for some new strategies to try to deal with it.
Can I ask the Commissioner about the use of ASBOs in relation to the Deputy's question?
We work very closely with the local housing authorities and the local authorities in terms of addressing anti-social behaviour issues because we recognise that they are very disruptive to individual families and also to communities because they create a sense of fear. We engage at a strategic level with the local authorities but also at a local level with the local communities in attempting to address those issues and we have a number of initiatives in place. We take on board what the Deputy is saying and we will look at that specific area and see if there is more that we can do.
We use ASBOs in terms of anti-social behaviour issues particularly around teenagers and young people and also in terms of invoking the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act and the Criminal Damage Act to deal with the kinds of issues that have been described.
The Commissioner might send us a note at some stage on the number of ASBOs that have been used recently and their effectiveness. That is something the committee is interested in.
Yes.
I congratulate the Commissioner on her recent appointment and on her clear and obvious grasp of all the issues concerned. I want to say two things. Firstly, I would like to thank the Garda Síochána for the protection that it offers members of the Oireachtas, particularly in these difficult times, and for the visits we have all had in our offices in relation to security and issues around that. I also congratulate the Garda Síochána on its even-handed policing of public order issues that arise in many places and I recognise the difficult job that it has.
I want to ask a question about police resources, which I believe, through no fault of the police, are being wasted. As I understand it, in 2014, some 8,965 people were committed to prison for non-payment of fines.
I have had a visit, to my office, from somebody who was in that position. They had been visited by the Garda and were to be brought to the prison by Garda car for committal. As I understand it, he or she was brought to prison but was released back into the community after a very short time. I am not asking the Garda Commissioner to comment on a political issue here because it has already been decided by the Oireachtas that this practice will cease at some date in the future. Is it a fact that 8,965 Garda cars brought individuals to prison in the past 12 months only for 99% to be returned either in those cars or by public transport immediately thereafter?
It is not a figure I have available to me now. I can certainly look at it and we can come back to the committee in regard to same. I wish to thank the Deputy for acknowledging the work done by An Garda Síochána.
The figure came from a response to a parliamentary question.
Yes.
Does what I have outlined happen when somebody is committed to prison for the non-payment of a fine or otherwise?
What would happen if there was a warrant executed against a person? Yes, he or she would be committed to prison and, therefore, would be transported to prison.
The figure amounts to the population of Dungarvan and the surrounding area being brought to a prison and returned home on the same day.
The Deputy cannot comment on Dungarvan in that way.
I cited Dungarvan and its surrounds because its population is approximately 8,250.
Dungarvan is a very nice town which is located close to my constituency.
My good wife's mother comes from the region.
I wish to make a second point. The number of women, as a proportion of the people sentenced and committed to prison for whatever reason, has risen from 12% in 2010 to 19%, which is information supplied to me on foot of my tabling a parliamentary question.
I again acknowledge the work of the Garda and there is no criticism implied or intended by in what I have to say. Are there extra things the Garda could do, particularly interaction with women who end up in prison? I ask this question due to the disproportionate impact imprisonment for whatever reason has on women, many of whom are mothers and who are key people in the family, etc. I repeat, I do not criticise in any way what is done by the Garda. Are there new initiatives? Is there more we can do to prevent women being imprisoned?
I wish to clarify that in the transportation of people to prison, on the execution of a warrant, we would not use patrol cars necessarily. A lot of taxis or hackneys are used, depending on the part of the country. Yes, people would be conveyed to prison but there may be a variety of transportation used to do so.
In terms of specifically dealing with female offenders and more importantly, in the first instance, engaging with people to divert them from crime, we have a number of initiatives under way. In our own community relations section, we have a number of individual projects. In particular, we also have a number of initiatives with the Irish Prison Service and the probation and welfare service, in terms of trying to help people stay out of the criminal justice system and divert people away from crime. A lot of our juvenile diversion programmes, and some of the diversion programmes that we are working on, in our community relations section would look, particularly, at trying to divert people away from crime and try to give them alternatives.
We are very much listening to what the Deputy has said, in terms of women and young female offenders and trying to work together. We work with a number of NGOs on the various programmes that are in place in communities and make sure that gardaí are engaged with those at a very early stage in an attempt to divert people away from crime.
I thank the Garda Commissioner.
I seek clarity.
I remind members that we are up against time because we must deal with another very important session.
Do gardaí accompany a person for committal in the taxi?
I ask the Deputy to wait, please. I remind members that we are up against time. We are scheduled for another very important session now and there is another session afterwards.
My question is simple and clear. If it is a taxi or some other vehicle, does a garda accompany the prisoner?
Yes, there is.
Is it one or two gardaí in most cases?
It would depend on the circumstances.
Could it be more than one?
Yes, it could.
I thank the Chairman. That is all I wanted to know.
Go raibh maith agat. I have a couple of questions on cyber crime which I shall skip. Instead, I shall directly refer to national security and some of the remarks the Garda Commissioner made in her opening statement. She said, "We will maintain a strong focus on protecting the State and its people against all forms of terrorism, and also on tackling serious crime such as organised crime and violent crime". I wish to ask in particular about organised crime, terrorism and intelligence-led operations. It is my understanding from meeting people in communities, such as west Belfast, south Armagh, north Louth, north Monaghan and other areas, that these areas and communities are being ruled through threats, intimidation and fear by, what I would term, a vile, violent and insidious organisation. To me, and from all the people that I have spoken to in those areas, that organisation is the Provisional IRA.
I wish to ask the Garda Commissioner a question, especially in regard to a letter that was issued a number of weeks go and which has been circulated on a number of occasions. Can she tell me whether she fully sanctioned the letter? Does she believe, in all honesty, that the Provisional IRA does not exist?
I am very much aware that there are a number of individuals, both acting individually and acting in consort, involved in organised crime in a number of the areas mentioned by the Senator. We work very closely with our colleagues in the Police Service of Northern Ireland, and with the British Security Service, in terms of targeting and dismantling both individuals and groups involved in organised criminal activity and terrorism. We will continue to do so and remain steadfast in doing so.
I am conscious of not crossing into discussing operational matters which do not come under our remit. I ask Senator Heffernan to direct his comments through the Chair.
With the greatest of respect, the Garda Commissioner has not answered my question. I asked her did she believe the IRA does not exist
What I would say is that An Garda Síochána will investigate any incident of criminality and we will investigate anybody or any group of individuals that are involved in any type of organised crime or terrorism. We will continue to do so.
I find it frustrating that I cannot get a simple "Yes" or "No" answer. Either the organisation exists or it does not. To me, the answer is simple. The answer is simple for the people who live in those areas because to them the organisation exists and is in their faces. What assessment took place? What was it based upon? Let us be simple. If the organisation does not exist, did it hold a convention to disband its organisations? What assessment or intelligence was used? Was the PSNI asked about the matter, previous to the Garda issuing the letter? Were the British intelligence services asked about the matter in regard to the letter that was issued recently?
The committee is conscious of not moving into discussing a policing operational matters which are strictly outside our remit. I am sorry but I must rule some of the Senator's questions out of order. If he wants to meet the Garda Commissioner privately and have those discussions, I am sure she will facilitate him. The committee is not allowed to discuss operational matters because it is outside its remit. I am sure the Garda Commissioner would meet him privately, at any time, if he wants to discuss the matters. Has the Senator a further question?
No, I have not. I had hoped the Garda Commissioner could have been able to respond in some form but the Chairman has ruled.
The Senator's questions were on operational matters. I invite him to contact the Garda Commissioner, to meet her privately and go through his concerns and report any matters of concern to her.
I call Deputy Farrell. He has spoken already but I shall allow him to ask a brief question.
I have one question which I have whittled down while listening to the Chairman.
I urge the Deputy to be as brief as he can, please.
I shall leave out what I was going to say.
I have a question on the professionalisation that was mentioned earlier, which is a welcome move by the service. The issue of continuous professional development, ongoing training on the job and-or even the likes of proficiency, and-or physical fitness tests and such like are very important. I am interested to hear the Garda Commissioner's view, and that of the Assistant Commissioners in attendance, on the necessity to provide additional continuous professional development for members of the service.
I am aware that members of the force seek a professional qualification in a particular field which I assume is complementary to their role. I am aware also that, as in any other employment, there are certain provisions to allow for this. In terms of the need for ongoing training, it has been brought to my attention on a number of occasions, anecdotally, that when certain members leave Templemore, that is pretty much it in terms of their education. They will be briefed on certain aspects of new legislative provisions and so on, but in terms of CPD in which members of many professions are required to take part, what is the view of the Commissioner on it being a requirement for members of An Garda Síochána?
In my opening submission I mentioned training, development and support. I also mentioned to Deputy Niall Collins that in the case of the students in the college, we wanted, as Mr. Dunne said, to ensure training, development and support would be available within the field, but we very much see this as part of the infrastructure to provide for the continuous professional development of all our members, not just students. Certainly in the last while, due to nobody's fault, gaps have appeared in training and we are conscious of the need to prioritise the filling of those gaps. With the executive director of HRPD and our director of training, a programme of continuous professional development is being prioritised. We are looking at mechanisms on how to deliver it differently from how it was delivered in the past, whether it should be delivered closer to source or online. We have a number of collaborations with academic institutions and professional bodies to provide sworn members, but also Garda staff members, with CPD and professional accreditation.
Physical proficiency.
Under our occupational health strategy, we look at the issue of physical proficiency. Recently we have held a number of seminars on healthy living and such like. We have a number of ongoing programmes under the occupational health strategy to try to deal with some of the issues mentioned.
The Garda Inspectorate made a comment in its most recent report on the recording and classification of crime statistics. We are still awaiting the statistics for quarter three of 2014. Will the Commissioner state whether there is an issue between An Garda Síochána and the CSO or what is the reason for the delay?
We have had a number of meetings with the CSO. A high level group is reviewing the crime counting rules and the classification of crimes. It is important to emphasise that this not peculiar to An Garda Síochána. Recently her Majesty's government inspectorate carried out a study of the 43 police forces in the United Kingdom in which similar issues were identified. Nevertheless, the Garda analysis service is working with the CSO on the crime counting rules and the classification of crimes. We have also set up a data review team in the Garda information service centre in Castlebar. It is a pilot project as part of which all crimes are reported and classified.
If I understand correctly, the two Deputy Garda Commissioner positions are vacant. Will the Commissioner outline the process that will be followed? Will the process be external or internal or a hybrid of both? Is the chairperson designate of the new independent Garda Authority, Ms Josephine Feehily, involved in the process?
The process is run by the Public Appointments Service; therefore, it is independent. As I have outlined to the committee, we have an enormous transformation programme ahead of us and an enormous job of work to do. In my opening statement I mentioned that we had to continue to deliver on the twin tracks of policing and security and providing for continuous improvements to drive the transformation agenda. An important imperative for me is not only to have the top team in place but also to ensure there will be teams in place throughout the organisation that can hit the ground running in the implementation of the programme.
Senator James Heffernan had a question to ask on cyber crime. Does he wish to ask it now?
No. If allowed, I will return to my other question.
No; cyber crime is the one in which I am interested.
When it comes to child pornography, serious VAT fraud offences, other tax offences and so on, is the computer crime investigation unit up and running and fully resourced?
Cyber crime is one of the future threats we have identified and it is growing at an exponential rate. Every police force in the world is dealing with it and there is collaboration. Recently we amalgamated the domestic violence and sexual assault units and a key part is the paedophile investigation unit. We are identifying the capabilities required in this regard. The computer crime investigation unit is up and running and an extensive amount of work has been done. We are not on our own in dealing with this issue, as everybody is exploring it. At the rate at which it is growing, how do we stay ahead of the problem? It is important that the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources have a high level group and a national cyber strategy in place. We have staff at a very high level in that group and are represented on the cyber emergency response team under that Department. We also have an internal cyber strategy. The Senator asked about economic crimes. We look at the issues involved, cyber crime in particular.
Is the Commissioner happy that An Garda Síochána is adequately resourced to deal with white collar crime?
We are focused on white collar crime which increasingly is cyber enabled. With the team and the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation, we are looking at innovative ways to address white collar crime, including the part that is cyber enabled, and any collaboration and partnership in which we can engage.
Will the Commissioner comment on the proposal made by the committee at one stage - in her presentation she made a number of references to the work of the committee, for which I thank her - that community courts be established in Dublin on a pilot basis? Yesterday a report appeared in one of the newspapers in which it was stated 700 tourists had been targeted in the city by muggers and pick pockets in 2014. Would a community court have an impact on the level of this crime? The Garda works closely with the tourist service. A service is needed in Europe to assist tourists, given the importance of tourism.
I am aware of the report that appeared yesterday. We work closely with the tourist support association and the other NGOs involved in providing victim support services. We have a number of initiatives in place in the city centre and throughout the country because we are very mindful of the role An Garda Síochána plays. These initiatives aim to make the city centre a safe and secure place for tourists. Certainly in terms of having community courts, we would be very happy to work with whatever structure was put in place, again building on the experience of the drug courts.
I thank the Commissioner and her team for appearing before the committee. We have had intense engagement for an hour and a half. I congratulate her on assuming her new position. I wish her and the Garda well in their continued work on behalf of the community. It is complex and detailed work which, as we have learned, is becoming even more complex because of the impact of cyber crime, computers, social media and so on.
