JOINT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, EQUALITY, DEFENCE AND WOMEN’S RIGHTS debate -
Tuesday, 13 Dec 2005

International Agreements: Motion.

Chairman

The first item on the agenda is a motion on the terms of an agreement between the Government of Ireland and the Governments of the Republic of Bulgaria, Cyprus and Poland on co-operation in combating organised crime to be taken by the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Fahey. The second item is a motion from Dáil Éireann regarding the expansion of the area of operations of the Irish Army to include Sierra Leone to be taken by the Minister for Defence, Deputy O'Dea. It is proposed that the first motion will be dealt with by the joint committee and that the second motion will be dealt with by the select committee no later than 3.15 p.m. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Fahey, and his officials. Members have been circulated with copies of the briefing note supplied by the Department. I invite the Minister of State to make a brief presentation.

Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Fahey)

I will begin by providing the background to the negotiation of the bilateral agreements.

The technological, economic, social and political developments that have taken place during the past 15 years have provided organised crime with unprecedented opportunities to expand its activities. New markets have been developed, new fields of activity created and new alliances have been forged between organised criminal groups around the globe. The Government and the Garda Síochána are aware of the need for international co-operation in the fight against organised crime. The Garda Síochána has been proactive and successful in fostering law enforcement co-operation within the EU and between the EU and its neighbours by developing and executing numerous projects under the current EU-AGIS programme and its forerunners.

The Garda Síochána has also established positive working relationships with the Polish, Bulgarian and Cypriot law enforcement agencies. For example, effective mechanisms for the exchange of financial intelligence relating to money laundering are already in place on foot of memoranda of understanding between the financial intelligence unit of the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation and equivalent units in Bulgaria, Cyprus and Poland. These memoranda provide all participants with insight into each others expertise in the prevention and investigation of financial crime, including money laundering. Moreover, they have undoubtedly strengthened bilateral co-operation at all levels between the participants and are an important foundation stone upon which these intergovernmental agreements have been built.

Poland and Cyprus are among the ten new countries that became full member states of the EU with effect from 1 May 2004. Ireland assisted them with their preparations for accession. Trade between Ireland and Bulgaria, Cyprus and Poland is strong and links have been developed in recent years at intergovernmental and parliamentary level. Members will be aware of the involvement of the Garda and the Defence Forces over a long period in peacekeeping duties in Cyprus.

In common with other states from behind the old Iron Curtain, the transition from a centrally planned, command economy to a free market system in the Republic of Poland has created conditions conducive to the development of organised crime. Central and eastern European countries are increasingly mentioned as depots for drugs and other illicit commodities and as logistical bases for organised crime groups. In that context, there is an impact on the European Union. These countries are also used by criminal countries as depots for illegal immigrants waiting to be smuggled into the EU and elsewhere. As the borders of the EU expand eastwards, it is imperative that co-operation with the countries of central and eastern Europe is enhanced in the fight against organised crime to defeat our common enemy. While Ireland will continue to participate in the development of EU measures to improve co-operation with the countries in question, we must also co-operate at bilateral level. We have already concluded intergovernmental agreements with the Russian Federation and Hungary. A number of other intergovernmental agreements are being negotiated with countries in the region. Bilateral agreements with Bulgaria and Poland fit well within our framework for improving co-operation with the countries of central and eastern Europe in the international effort to combat organised crime.

I will focus briefly on the development of EU external relations in the fight against organised crime. The Hague programme to strengthen freedom, security and justice, which was approved by the European Council in 2004, is a multi-annual policy framework of the EU for the period 2005-10 in the sphere of justice and home affairs. It sets the agenda whereby the EU may build on its achievements and meet the challenges it faces effectively, including challenges in its external relations. During its EU Presidency in 2004, Ireland organised a conference on crime — EU Strategy on Drugs: the Way Forward — which was intended to provide a first opportunity for member states to exchange views on a new strategy on drugs for the period 2005-12. A new strategy was subsequently endorsed by the Council in December 2004, one of the aims of which is to progressively integrate candidate countries under the strategy goal of intensifying international co-operation with countries and international organisations in the drugs field. Similarly, the Justice and Home Affairs Council recently approved an EU action plan to combat trafficking in human beings. The action plan responds to a call in the Hague programme to combat human trafficking and is structured around eight themes including external relationships. The related actions are guided by a set of broad principles, one of which is the intensification of industrial co-operation.

In 2000, the Council approved an EU strategy for the prevention and control of organised crime at the beginning of the new millennium. A specific chapter of the strategy relates to strengthening co-operation with candidate countries with a view to their gradual incorporation into the EU strategy for the prevention and control of organised crime. The chapter emphasises that a truly effective EU strategy must look beyond member states. Organised crime has become transnational and if we are to combat it effectively, co-operation must be global. Ireland is a signatory to the UN Convention against Transnational Organised Crime and legislation to facilitate the rationalisation of the convention, including its provisions on the criminalisation of participation in an organised criminal group, is in the course of preparation.

The three intergovernmental agreements have been negotiated directly with representatives from the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Health and Children and Foreign Affairs, the Garda, the Revenue Commissioners and delegations from the republics of China, Poland and Bulgaria. After completion of the negotiations at official level and following Government approval, the agreements were signed by Ministers. The agreements are structured along similar lines to provide for co-operation in combating illicit drug trafficking, money laundering, organised crime, trafficking in persons, terrorism and other serious crimes. The agreements specify the competent authorities responsible for implementation and provide for direct cooperation and determination of the methodology for the achievement of cooperation between those authorities. They further provide for the establishment of direct channels of communication, languages to be used and the exchange of details of contact points. The agreements enable the exchange of information on the modus operandi of persons or organisations suspected of involvement in crimes covered by the agreements and on the commission of activities preparatory to such crimes.

The agreements also set out the rules on the protection of information received and its treatment as confidential unless otherwise authorised by the requested authority and the application of international data protection principles. There are additional requirements on the destruction of data in accordance with the conditions set out by the requesting state or when it is no longer needed or in the event of the agreement being terminated. The contracting parties can, in specified circumstances, refuse a request for assistance where this would impair sovereignty, security or other essential interests, be contrary to national law or impose an excessive burden. There are provisions for co-operation in the development of training programmes, including the secondment or exchange of law enforcement personnel. Also specified are arrangements for the bearing of costs, monitoring, the primacy of international agreements and the mechanisms for the entry into force and termination of the agreements. The Minister is confident that all three intergovernmental agreements will be of great assistance to the participating countries. Their implementation will contribute to the fight against organised crime within the European Union and beyond.

I hope I have provided the joint committee with a useful outline of the background to and provisions of the agreements as well as ongoing developments in EU relations with third countries in the fight against drugs and organised crime. The Minister believes bilateral agreements will prove of major benefit in the ongoing battle against organised international crime and will be helpful to the new law enforcement authorities of all participant countries. I thank the committee for its attention and will endeavour to answer any questions members pose.

Deputy J. O’Keeffe

I endorse and support enthusiastically the adoption of agreements with Bulgaria, Poland and Cyprus and their approval by the Oireachtas. I welcome to our proceedings the ambassador from Cyprus, who has been most assiduous in keeping all Members of the Oireachtas fully up to date on matters in his country. In general terms, I strongly believe in international co-operation. Large gains are made in the fight against crime such as drugs, money laundering, organised crime, trafficking and terrorism at any level by having the maximum amount of international co-operation. I view the signing of these agreements and the endorsement by the Oireachtas as a beginning rather than an end.

I strongly support the European Union and I enthusiastically welcome into our country nationals from the new member states. They make an enormous contribution to our economy and many people would question whether our economy would progress without the benefit of such people. I am also glad to see the growing trade between Ireland and the new member states. However, we must observe that, as always happens when many people enter a country with good intent, there will be the bad apples who begin by making a dishonest bob and others who may be engaged in crime of a most serious nature.

It behoves us all to ensure we work with the authorities in the other member states. In particular, we are discussing active co-operation between the Government and agencies here with the Governments and agencies in Poland, Cyprus and Bulgaria. I have only one problem with the agreements. How effective will they be? Will the Minister of State tell us what are the fruits to date of the co-operation? Can the agreements be extended and made more effective? A case arises for a review of the operation of agreements with all member states within a defined period. Such reviews should be carried out with the authorities of the other countries with the objective of establishing how effective they are and how they could be made more effective. That is my approach and I will be happy if the Minister of State confirms that approach will be adopted by the Government.

Deputy Costello

I, too, welcome the ambassador from Cyprus to the committee, particularly as we are discussing an agreement between Ireland and Cyprus. I welcome all proposals on co-operation in dealing with organised crime and must ask why it has taken so long. The former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy John O'Donoghue, signed all of the arrangements, one in 2001 and the other two in 2002 and little has happened since. Is this the same agreement that was signed then in its entirety or did further negotiations take place since?

These agreements are with three countries, two of which, Cyprus and Poland, are in the European Union while Bulgaria is outside the European Union. How many other countries within the European Union have we yet to sign mutual co-operation agreements on organised crime of this nature? Are there proposals to sign agreements with Romania or any other country expected to accede to the EU in the not too distant future?

We have some experience of co-operation in the areas of money laundering, drugs and the proceeds of crime and the Criminal Assets Bureau. We have unique policy items we can offer to other countries. I am sure they also have experience and information they can bring to us. What will all of this mean in practice? Does it mean we will establish a transnational crime unit? Will members of the Garda Síochána be trained in Cyprus, Poland or Bulgaria or vice versa in this country? Will there be anything other than a document that includes the exchange of information as requested and co-operation in some form of training programmes? Is anything specific being budgeted or planned for?

What does "the exchange of information" mean considering recent developments? The Minister of State stated that information will be exchanged and it will be treated as confidential. We are discussing personal data on individual citizens in this country as well as vice versa. We find it difficult to get our Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to treat as confidential personal data in Garda files. Are the authorities in Cyprus, Bulgaria and Poland aware the Minister can access any file in the possession of the Garda relating to any ongoing investigation and that he stated he is entitled to put such files in the public domain as he sees fit in the interests of national security? Can we guarantee the protection of personal files and guarantee that information given by other countries will remain confidential, will not be accessed and will not be put into the public domain?

I welcome the agreement and I am fully in support of maximum co-operation in the fight against crime.

Deputy F. McGrath

I welcome the ambassador of Cyprus. I have three short questions. There must be more co-operation on organised crime throughout the EU. I welcome the fact that it is an issue at EU level. All Ministers throughout the EU with responsibility for justice must be extremely careful about this issue. Organised crime is expanding and getting more dangerous and violent.

I ask the Minister of State to emphasise to other member states what happens in poor parts of many EU countries regarding drugs, violence and the destruction of communities. I also ask him to raise the issue of excessive violence and the use of knives and guns by people on crack cocaine. The level of violence used by some of these people is horrific. It must be dealt with and tackled head on.

On the sad issue of trafficking in human beings, we must face up to the reality that we just cannot deport everybody and put them on aeroplanes. There was the case last week where 120 young Afghan men were being sent back to Afghanistan which is a war zone. It is unacceptable for wealthy countries to be involved in these practices. We have a responsibility under United Nations rules and regulations, but also out of respect for human rights, to ensure trafficking ceases. The reason the people in question are coming here is economic hardship and to ensure the survival of their families.

Chairman

I wish to raise two matters. First, I note that the Revenue Commissioners formed part of the group which negotiated these agreements. To what extent, if any, will the tax affairs of individuals be open to scrutiny under them?

On the other matter, does the Minister of State see the provisions in respect of co-operation and the development of training programmes, including the secondment or exchange of law enforcement personnel, being used to a greater or lesser degree? In that regard, is there potential for the development of co-operation between the police forces of various countries to improve training and development programmes in areas other than in respect of organised crime and the major crimes discussed in the agreements?

I ask the Minister of State to reply to the questions asked in so far as he can. We understand he only became involved at short notice. If there are matters that he believes would be explained better in a briefing note to the committee, we will certainly take this on board without difficulty.

Deputy Fahey

I thank members for welcoming the agreements and the questions posed.

In reply to Deputy O'Keeffe who asked about the effectiveness of the agreements, the experience to date has been that they have been very effective. The evidence shows that where we have entered into agreements with various countries, there has been much police co-operation and that its level is growing and intensifying. There is every reason to believe that the agreements before us with the three countries mentioned — Poland, Bulgaria and Cyprus — with which we have good relations and significant agreements on the economic front will achieve the objects they set out to achieve. The experience has been good and already there have been exchanges of financial information. In that regard, the Chairman's question has to do mainly with customs, money laundering, etc. Where issues of criminality and fraud arise, they will be examined on their merits in the context of the Revenue Commissioners, etc. That is a question to which we can give the committee a more detailed reply. There have been significant successes in the provision of intelligence on drug trafficking, etc. There is co-operation between Ireland and the three countries in question in tackling drug trafficking and organised crime. There is every reason to believe, therefore, that the building on existing arrangements will produce significant results. There are provisions for the monitoring of the agreements. Consequently, there will be an ongoing review and monitoring process to ensure progress is being made and to look at new issues as they arise on an ongoing basis.

In reply to Deputy Costello, similar agreements have previously been approved by the Government. It is a standard agreement designed to create a structure for the exchange of information and ensure co-operation right across the spectrum.

There will be points of contact. There will also be an opportunity for Garda and other personnel to travel to other countries to exchange information and take part in training and exchanges. All of the normal features of co-operation which one would expect will be covered under the agreements.

On the question of confidentiality, the agreements set down rules for the protection of information received, including its treatment as confidential, unless otherwise authorised by the requesting authority. Consequently, as is the case in respect of much security information, it will be exchanged on a confidential basis, as is provided for in the agreements.

In reply to Deputy McGrath, trafficking is an important issue in respect of the agreements. Human trafficking, in particular, is a source of major concern. Every effort will be made through the agreements to improve intelligence and ensure the apprehension of those people involved. It is evident that organised crime gangs are using some of the former central and eastern European countries as a base for the trafficking of human beings to western Europe. The agreements will further strengthen the ability of our security forces to crack down on such trafficking.

The Chairman raised the matter of the development of co-operation between police forces on training and other issues. There are links between the Garda and police forces in other countries through the international police organisations. The existing relationship between the Garda and the police forces of the three countries which are the subject of the agreements is strong. There is potential to provide for training and other developments to ensure greater efficiency in the co-operation that will result from the signing of the agreements.

Chairman

I thank the Minister of State and his officials for attending. Is it agreed there should be no further debate on the matter by Dáil Éireann or Seanad Éireann? Agreed. Is the draft report agreed, subject to insertion of details regarding attendance and contributors to the discussion? Agreed.