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Joint Committee on Media, Tourism, Arts, Culture, Sport and the Gaeltacht debate -
Tuesday, 20 Apr 2021

Key Priorities for the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media: Discussion

I welcome the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Martin. I believe the Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Chambers, will join us shortly.

We have to approve the draft minutes of our last public and private committee meetings of 13 April. Is that agreed? Agreed. No matters arise. Is that agreed? Agreed.

We are delighted today to have the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Catherine Martin, with us today. At some point we will have the Minister of State, Deputy Jack Chambers, who has responsibility for sport and the Gaeltacht, to discuss key priorities for the Department.

I welcome the Minister, Deputy Martin, the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, and their officials to the meeting. They will be joining us remotely from committee room 4 and via Microsoft Teams. As the Minister and Minister of State are present, officials are asked not to speak in public session. I have some housekeeping rules to go through, so please bear with me before we get to the juicy part of the meeting and the statements from the Minister and Minister of State.

I advise witnesses that their opening statements and any other documents submitted to the committee may be published on its website after this meeting. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind members again of the constitutional requirements that they must be physically present within the confines of the place where Parliament has chosen to sit, which is Leinster House, in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where he or she does not adhere to the constitutional requirement. Any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting. I also ask members to please identify themselves when contributing for the benefit of the Debates Office staff preparing the Official Report. I also ask Members to mute microphones when not contributing in order to reduce background noise and feedback. Members should use the appropriate button to indicate a raised hand when they wish to make a contribution and I remind everybody joining today's meeting to ensure their mobile phones are switched off or in silent mode.

I welcome our colleagues, Deputy Cathal Crowe and Senator Ollie Crowe, who are joining us today. I ask the Minister to make her statement.

Táim thar a bheith sásta a bheith anseo chun labhairt faoi thosaíochtaí straitéiseacha na Roinne. I intend to address the committee on tourism, culture, arts and media and my colleague, the Minister of State, will address matters relating to sport and the Gaeltacht.

I am pleased to have this opportunity to address the committee on the key priorities of my Department and to set out the vision for these wide-ranging and valuable sectors. These sectors contribute significantly to our country’s economy while also supporting individual and community well-being right across Ireland. It is important, however, that we recognise the ongoing impact the global Covid-19 pandemic and associated public health measures continue to have on these sectors, on the people who work in them and on the communities that depend on them.

When I last addressed this committee in November, I spoke about the devastating impact that has been felt by workers and businesses throughout our tourism, culture, arts, sports, Gaeltacht and media sectors, as well as the measures that my Department had put into place to mitigate against the harmful effects of the pandemic. We have since faced another wave of the virus and, along with it, another period of level 5 restrictions has been imposed on these hard-hit sectors. I am deeply conscious of the effects that measures taken in the interests of public health have had on our ability to participate in the arts, to watch a match or to enjoy a meal or a night out with friends, as well as the ability for artists, workers and businesses to provide these uniquely valued experiences. We should also recognise that the tough decisions that were made have enabled all of us, through collective action, to protect the most vulnerable in our society. With the ongoing roll-out of the vaccination programme, we find ourselves at the beginning of a process where we can start to move on from the pandemic and focus our efforts on economic and social recovery.

Over the coming months, as the restrictions ease and the vaccine programme is rolled out, we will see the safe and successful reopening of our society, and with it our tourism sector, our arts and culture venues and events and the eventual welcoming back of fans to our sports grounds. I am confident that the Government is ready to meet the challenges and opportunities of recovery. Covid-19 Resilience and Recovery 2021 - The Path Ahead recognises, in particular, the need for bespoke sectoral supports to address the worst affected sectors, such as tourism and culture, in the forthcoming national economic recovery plan.

Last week we saw the initial easing of some restrictions and yesterday saw the return of more high-performance sports and training for adult inter-county GAA teams. This is just the beginning of the positive changes we hope to see this year. From 26 April, our young people will be able to return to outdoor non-contact sports and dance training, which will provide a much needed well-being dividend. We are guided at all times by the health advice, we look forward to returning to in-person cultural and sporting events and being able to visit galleries, museums and libraries. The prospect of being able to eat in a restaurant or café or go on holidays within Ireland is on the horizon if the epidemiological position continues to improve. We are looking forward to the time we can welcome international visitors back to our shores.

As we emerge from the most difficult period of the pandemic, my Department will continue to prioritise the development and implementation of targeted supports for the sectors most affected by the pandemic. We will also work across Government to develop a national economic recovery plan that addresses the specific sectoral issues of our sectors, in line with the commitment set out in Covid-19 Resilience and Recovery 2021 - The Path Ahead.

I announced a new €55 million support fund as part of budget 2021 for strategic tourism businesses and €5 million for training and digitalisation support in the sector. These measures will complement the employment wage subsidy scheme, pandemic unemployment payment and Covid restrictions support scheme schemes and the restart scheme. Recently, as part of a suite of measures to support the live entertainment sector, I was pleased to announce details of a €25 million live performance support scheme for 2021, which is aimed at supporting employment and well-being opportunities across all genres of live entertainment and the continued production of high quality artistic output for the public. I also recently announced the new music and entertainment business assistance scheme, which will make a contribution to the overheads of businesses, including musicians, crew and engineers, that have been significantly negatively affected by Covid-19 and that do not have a rateable premises.

Earlier this month, initial applications opened for a new €17 million outdoor dining enhancement scheme being delivered in partnership between Fáilte Ireland and local authorities across the country. This scheme will provide funding for tourism and hospitality business to develop and increase their outdoor seating capacity and will also provide funding to local authorities to develop permanent outdoor public dining spaces in towns and urban centres, similar to those that exist in various European cities. These are just some examples of the kinds of supports that are needed to support hard-hit sectors as we transition out of the current restrictions, and I will continue to do everything-----

I apologise for interrupting but I ask the Minister to conclude her statement. I know she has much more to say but we have run out of time. We are tight on time and I want to ensure that every member gets the opportunity to make a contribution. If the Minister rounds off her statement, we can move to the Minister of State.

Sure. Tourism, culture, arts, language, sport and media are an integral part of the fabric of our society and democracy, serving to enhance our physical, mental and social well-being. As we overcome the challenges posed by the Covid-19 pandemic, I am looking forward to turning our attention to the restoration of these activities that sustain us and bring joy to our lives. I will ensure that the sectors can, in time, again become vital components of our economy, our social lives and our well-being. This will require a strategic approach and long-term vision. The Minister of State will now speak to sport and Gaeltacht matters.

Táim an-sásta bheith anseo inniu chun labhairt faoi thosaíochtaí straitéiseacha na Roinne, maidir leis an spórt, leis an Ghaeilge agus leis an Ghaeltacht. At the outset I echo the comments of my colleague, the Minister in recognising the ongoing impact that the global Covid-19 pandemic and associated public health measures are having on the sports sector and on our Gaeltacht communities. Due to level 5 restrictions, there has been a long period in which we have experienced the effective cessation of all sporting activity. That was until yesterday when the return of more high-performance sports and training for adult inter-county GAA teams was announced. This is first of many positive changes we hope to see this year for the sports sector. From 26 April, our young people will be able to return to outdoor non-contact sports and dance training and outdoor sports facilities like golf courses and tennis courts will also reopen. This easing of restrictions will allow people to re-engage in sporting activities of these types once again, and they are an important support for our physical and mental well-being.

Across the Gaeltacht, businesses and communities alike have suffered a significant reduction in economic activity, job losses and a lack of tourist and educational visitors, all as a consequence of Covid-19. The Irish summer colleges sector, worth €50 million annually to the Gaeltacht economies, was unable to go ahead last year. In 2020, Údarás reported a net job reduction of 6% in full-time jobs in the Gaeltacht, the majority of which relate to tourism and related sectors. My Department is working with Údarás na Gaeltachta, the Irish summer colleges and other stakeholders to mitigate the risks to these communities and the language. I am very conscious of the need to protect employment in Gaeltacht regions in order to encourage native speakers to continue living and working in those regions.

Leanfaidh mo Roinn le tosaíocht a thabhairt d’fhorbairt fostaíochta inbhuanaithe i gceantair Ghaeltachta, rud a sholáthraíonn cosaint do phobail agus stór sábháilte dár dteanga dhúchais. Chuige sin, i mbuiséad 2021, tá leithdháileadh breise suntasach curtha ar fáil againn don Ghaeltacht agus don Ghaeilge, agus leithdháileadh os cionn €79 milliún d’earnáil na Gaeltachta agus na Gaeilge. Áirítear leis seo €31.8 milliún san iomlán chun cur ar chumas Údarás na Gaeltachta infheistíocht a dhéanamh i bpobail Ghaeltachta, agus laistigh de sin beidh €4.454 milliún breise i maoiniú caipitil a chuirfidh leithdháileadh caipitil iomlán de €14.45 milliún ar fáil don eagraíocht, ar méadú 45% é ar leithdháileadh 2020. Beidh an méadú 45% seo i gcaipiteal Údarás na Gaeltachta ina chuidiú leis an Údarás a chuideachtaí cliaint a chosaint ó thionchar iomlán Brexit agus na paindéime Covid-19.

Mar a luaigh mo chomhghleacaí, an tAire, an Teachta Martin, chomh maith le déileáil leis an ngéarchéim reatha seo, ní mór dúinn féachaint freisin ar an téarnamh ar fud ár n-earnálacha go léir. Maidir liomsa, tá mé tiomanta an t-am seo sa Rialtas a úsáid chun cur i bhfeidhm foriomlán na straitéise 20 bliain don Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn trí na gníomhartha atá sa phlean gníomhaíochta cúig bliana don teanga.

Mar chuid dár dtacaíocht leanúnach don Ghaeilge i 2021, rinneamar €1.3 milliún breise a leithdháileadh i maoiniú méadaithe don phróiseas pleanála teanga d’fhonn taca breise a chur faoi fhorbairt agus cur i bhfeidhm na bpleananna teanga, laistigh de na réigiúin Ghaeltachta agus go náisiúnta araon. Fágann sin gur €5 milliún é an leithdháileadh iomlán don bhliain 2021.

Maidir leis an teanga lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht, d’fhógair mé leithdháileadh breise €1 milliún chun scéimeanna tacaíochta teanga na Roinne a leathnú, chomh maith le hinfheistíocht €2 milliún i gcaipiteal chun ionaid Ghaeilge agus chultúir a fhorbairt ar fud na tíre.

Ba chóir dom a rá freisin, i dteannta an €79 milliún a leithdháiltear faoi chláir Ghaeltachta agus Ghaeilge na Roinne, go bhfaighidh TG4 méadú €3.5 milliún faoi chlár meán na Roinne, rud a fhágfaidh go mbeidh beagnach €41 milliún ina leithdháileadh don bhliain 2021. Léiríonn sé seo aitheantas ar rannchuidiú suntasach TG4 maidir le cur i bhfeidhm na straitéise 20 bliain don Ghaeilge.

Ó thaobh na reachtaíochta de, i 2021, déanfaimid an Bille na dTeangacha Oifigiúla (Leasú), 2019, a chur chun cinn trí Thithe an Oireachtais chun úsáid na teanga laistigh dár n-earnáil phoiblí a fheabhsú tuilleadh.

B’fhorbairt dhearfach í atosú Chomhairle Aireachta Thuaidh-Theas, agus tugtar deis leis sin oibriú le comhghleacaithe i dTuaisceart Éireann agus sa chomhlacht teanga d’fhonn a gcláir oibre a sheachadadh amach anseo. Áiríodh i mbuiséad 2021 gealltanais maidir le maoiniú méadaithe €1.8 milliún do thionscnaimh Thuaidh-Theas, lena n-áirítear maoiniú do ghealltanais a thug an Rialtas faoin gcomhaontú Deich mBliana Nua, Cur Chuige Nua.

In terms of sport, our immediate priority will be to support sporting organisations and athletes in getting back to training and competing. The Department will continue to prioritise engagement with the sport sector, which over recent months has highlighted the significant adverse impact of Covid-19 at all levels of the Irish sporting landscape. A Covid-19 sports monitoring group, chaired at ministerial level, has been established to engage directly with the sporting bodies. An expert group on the return to sport, chaired by an official of my Department, has also been established to provide advice and guidance to sporting bodies. Sport Ireland is also directly engaging with sporting bodies on an ongoing basis.

As we recover from the current crisis, the Department will be working diligently with stakeholders across the sector to work out ways of meeting our target of 60% of the population participating in sport by 2027 and focusing on areas of gender diversity and inclusion. We are also committed to developing a high-performance strategy which will support and enhance Ireland’s position internationally. A third strand of our work for the future is to enhance the governance capacity of the sector in partnership with the national governing bodies and other stakeholders. We will also continue to improve the facilities available for everybody who wants to participate in sport through new rounds of the sports capital and equipment programme and progressing projects under the large-scale sports infrastructure fund.

I ask the Minister of State to wrap up. I know he has much more to say but, unfortunately, we have run out of time and we want to give our members a chance.

I understand there is limited time and members want to ask questions.

We increased the budget by €26 million for 2021. We want to prioritise and support the Tokyo Olympic and Paralympic Games with an increase in core funding. We have also increased funding in respect of the dormant accounts fund and have obtained a significant commitment on major events in the context of the Ryder Cup and developing the business case around the World Cup in 2030. There are a record number of applications for sports capital grants, with more than €200 million sought in funding, so we are assessing the more than 3,000 applications.

We are ambitious about turning the national sports campus into the home of sport in Ireland and we are going through a national development plan process around that, but there are also other pillars of funding in the large-scale sports infrastructure fund and the sports capital fund, so we will try seriously to scale up investment in sport over the coming years.

I thank everyone for their time and attention and am happy to take questions. I have to leave early because the Business Committee has been called at 5 p.m., so I will try to stay on as long as possible after then.

I ask members be mindful of that in terms of their line of questions. We have the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, for one more hour. I thank the Minister and the Minister of State for their comprehensive statements. Members have five minutes each for questioning and answers in their own way, whatever way they want that to be.

I thank the Minister and the Minister of State for attending today. I am conscious we only have five minutes and will focus most of my questions on the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, in respect of the sporting area, but I have an opening question for the Minister, Deputy Martin, in the tourism area.

The Minister came to the Seanad last month and had a substantial debate with us on the actions being taken to support the tourism industry. The Minister touched on the area of international travel that day and acknowledged there was no silver bullet for it. In acknowledging we do not have an exit strategy at present in terms of allowing for international tourists into the country, which is a huge part of the overall economy of counties such as County Kerry, let alone just the tourism economy, will the supports in place which are due to expire be extended beyond 30 June? How will those hardest hit be supported and what supports are likely to be put in place for them as the summer goes on?

It is great to see sporting activity return to our playing fields and we saw the draw for the various sports made this morning but the financial impact remains. In recent weeks, the Irish Rugby Football Union, had to lay off non-playing staff. It expects a €30 million deficit this year. I know the Minister of State made significant financial contributions to all the sporting organisations, but the reality of fans not being able to attend is hitting hard. The GAA made its draws for its inter-county championships over the past two days, but again, the lack of gate revenue has a severe impact on the running of all the units throughout the country.

When the Minister of State was before us last year, he said he hoped to see fans come back on a trial basis to the Six Nations earlier this year. Obviously, it did not happen as we had a change in the virus. Does the Minister of State see potential for fans coming back into games in some limited way in this country this year? In England, 8,000 fans will attend the league cup final in Wembley, a huge stadium, this Sunday. Can the Minister of State see something similar happening in Ireland this year, whether it be for the GAA championship or for rugby later in the year?

The biggest topic in sport over the past 48 hours is, without doubt, the establishment proposals for a European super league. People might not think it is relevant here but it very much is. We have pyramid system in Europe that benefits us in many ways, because relatively small clubs by international standards get to compete. I remember the games in 2004 in the old Lansdowne Road. I was there for Shelbourne versus Deportivo La Coruña and when Bohemians played Salzburg in Dalymount Park. In recent seasons we have seen our club perform in the group stages of the Europa League. The pertinent point is the clubs involved from Ireland, Shamrock Rovers and Dundalk, were playing two teams in the group stages, Tottenham Hotspur and Arsenal, that are proponents of this atrocity. It is very much relevant because our clubs get to play on the international level against this.

I ask about tackling this from a Government point of view. We have access to the highest units in UEFA.

The head of strategic development there is Mr. Noel Mooney, a former general manager of the Football Association of Ireland. The Government needs to tackle this in conjunction with other European Governments. It is being driven by American billionaires and Russian oligarchs. We need to see our domestic league and the hopes of fans here protected just as much as those in England.

The Minister and Minister of State have now one minute between them to answer all of that. I do not know how they will do it. I call the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, first, as there was one question for her.

I thank Senator Cassells. Of course, international travel, as we know, accounts for 75% of the revenue generated by the sector due to the pandemic.

Specifically, because the time is short, in relation to supports, the Government has committed that there will be no cliff edge. Of course, tourism is one of the impacted sectors recognised in the path ahead and we will be looking at that in the context of the national economic recovery plan. The Tánaiste and I have a tourism and hospitality forum. The next meeting is in May. Also, I presented the report from the tourism oversight group to my colleagues at Cabinet and have discussed it with Cabinet colleagues as well. That identifies the key supports that are needed. As I said, there will be no cliff edge. We absolutely recognise the need for support throughout the reopening.

On Senator Cassells's first question, there will be significant funding needs for the sport sector again this year. We allocated additional funding of €26 million for Sport Ireland in budget 2021. We are engaging with the governing bodies on their additional requirements. We will be trying to meet them positively and trying to support the rebooting and promoting of our sport system when we can get it back. I am conscious of their needs and the difficulties of trying to live with the scarring effect of the pandemic on our sport system. We need to get as many people as possible back playing and participating, and supporting as many people as possible in terms of clubs and the grassroots support system.

In terms of spectators, we have a draft plan. Obviously, with the changes that occurred in the early part of the year and the difficulties around the pandemic, we were not able to run test events at that stage but a significant amount of work has gone into this through Sport Ireland and some of the governing bodies. I am optimistic that through the summer, we will be able to have test events, obviously, subject to Government decisions and the overall public health position at the time. I would be optimistic we can run test events and get spectators back at some of our games during the summer. We will be working with the sport sector to try and do that. As Senator Cassells mentioned, the ban on spectators is important. We can learn from other European countries that are doing this already and I am optimistic around that.

In terms of Senator Cassells' final point, I share the Senator's views. The super league is terrible for fans. It is terrible for football but it is also terrible for smaller nations such as Ireland and the leagues we run. It is elitism and a closed shop. We must have football and sport based on-----

I am sorry. I will have to ask the Minister of State to wrap it up.

No problem. I might continue on in a bit.

The Minister of State is getting the short straw here all the time but that is it. Moving on, I call Senator Carrigy.

I thank the Chair and welcome both Ministers. First, with regard to tourism, I welcome the development of a national tourism policy and the commitment for the financial investment that will accompany that. There are a couple of issues and we spoke about it at a recent meeting we had with the vintners and the restaurant association. With regard to hospitality, there is nobody on the tourism recovery oversight committee or as directors of either Fáilte Ireland and Tourism Ireland. It is important that there would be representation from the hospitality sector on those organisations. Fáilte Ireland states that it does not have a remit for hospitality, which I do not understand. Tourism and hospitality go hand in hand. It is an issue that needs to be addressed. As for a question, are there any plans for a new stay-and-spend scheme? Funding was allocated to it in the budget but, naturally enough, that has not been spent. What sort of a system are we looking at to help with rebooting the tourism sector?

For sport, I noted in the comments of the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, the target of 60% participation levels in sport by 2027. The Minister of State made comments about the high performance strategy but all sporting organisations need to concentrate on participation levels within sport and not only on the elite. Maybe we need to do an audit on the various sports throughout the country to learn the level of participation within those organisations to make sure that we hit that target in 2027.

I welcome the commitment to more funding support for organisations. In particular, I am very much involved in the GAA, and have been all my life. It gave us great joy last year. I ask for a commitment to support the club structure and to make sure that the championship flows this year.

I note the Minister of State's comments on the large-scale infrastructure fund which has been closed for a number of years. Would I be right in saying that the fund will open for applications later on this year? It is extremely important that it be opened up to allow others to start to develop long-term plans to develop their grounds or facilities. Is that the case?

In regard to the sports capital programme, the Minister mentioned the figures, namely, €200 million in applications for a €40 million fund with over 3,000 applications. We need to look at increasing the amount of money in that fund. I am from Longford and I will be biased. I was looking at the figures. Between 2017 and 2019, Longford received the lowest amount per person allocated from the sports capital programme, with €20.99 as against an average of €32.88. When we are making decisions on that with the sports capital programme, we need to achieve a balance in per capita expenditure across the country. We are the lowest in the country, at €20.99 as against an average of €32.88.

The Minister has approximately two minutes.

Quickly, on the tourism oversight group, that is set up to oversee the recommendations from that sector. It is not a representative group but, rather, it is made up of an independent chairperson and eight other members with a broad spectrum of backgrounds who were selected on the basis of each person's capacity to bring their knowledge, skills, experience, competence, capability and strategic leadership to the ideas of this working group. It is overseeing the implementation of the recommendations. The groups that the Senator mentioned are on the hospitality and tourism forum, which meets the Tánaiste and me regularly. It includes representatives from the Irish Hotels Federation, the Restaurants Association of Ireland, Fáilte Ireland, Tourism Ireland, the Vintners Federation of Ireland, the Licensed Vintners Association etc., to name but a few. They will be meeting me and the Tánaiste again this month. At the previous meeting, the Taoiseach met them as well.

In relation to the stay-and-spend scheme, that was set up last summer by my colleague, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe. Of course, it was to target that off-peak season. However, public health conditions beyond our control clearly prevented the success of this scheme. That stop-and-start nature of the pandemic and unpredictable consequences have resulted in the scheme being completely underutilised. A review of the stay-and-spend scheme is one of the recommendations of the tourism recovery oversight group and I have urged Cabinet colleagues to look at that. I am in favour of a scheme that would provide a boost to the industry in that off-peak season. Once the scheme ends at the end of this month, it is anticipated that my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, will take stock and look at what supports would be best suited to the tourism sector to be put in place for that off-peak season again.

I thank Senator Carrigy for the questions. On participation, Sport Ireland is doing a great deal of work with the sports system and auditing that to ensure that we see where there are gaps. Obviously, there are gaps in terms of areas of disadvantage, focusing on disability in sport, women in sport and supporting our grassroots system and our local partnerships. Part of what I and the Minister are doing around the new sports action plan is about how we can focus investment in sport and participation in sport in everything we do and how we align sports policy.

In terms of general sports, the Senator mentioned the GAA. We are engaging with all the governing bodies on supporting them but also the whole club and sport system, which is so important around participation and around sport getting back when it is allowed to do so. That will happen in the next week, which is positive for young people.

We are hopeful about the large-scale sports infrastructure fund. A submission has gone to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on potentially reopening applications for that, which would probably be in the early part of next year. That is going through the national development plan process so we have to await the outcome. It is really important for the investment in sport, however. The last allocations were in January 2020 when more than €80 million was distributed.

I thank the Minister of State. I must ask him to conclude.

Briefly, we will obviously be in engagement with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on the budgetary position there. Senator Carrigy mentioned that there is a gap between the ask and the amount available so we hope we will be able to improve the current figure. That is subject to negotiation.

I have been contacted by the charter boat businesses in Wexford. These are family-run seasonal businesses, many of which would not have a turnover of more than €50,000. Is any support available for them? Would the Minister consider reducing the cap for this sector?

The outdoor public space and outdoor dining enhancement schemes are very welcome and crucial supports. We want to make sure these schemes work, however. This is really a lifeline to save small businesses for this season.

I seek clarity concerning the use of the local authority's thoroughfare. It is my understanding that the fees for the use of these spaces are being waived, which is good news. Will there be any extra insurance costs? Will this be covered by the local authority's insurance? Will the Minister comment on this?

We welcome the re-establishment of the North-South Ministerial Council. Will the Minister of State explore the possibility of an all-Ireland soccer team based on the IRFU model?

The Minister also outlined the financial supports that are available for the arts. How will that money be distributed? How will small independent artists or musicians on the ground be in with a chance to access these grants? Will the Minister broadly outline the transparency mechanism of the process.

I will get back to the Deputy on insurance for the outdoor dining scheme. As he will be aware, it is €500 million for outdoor seating accessories for tourism and hospitality and €12 million for the local authority structures. I will get back to the Deputy with a note on that insurance query.

The charter boat operators were invited to apply for the first stage of that €55 million tourism business continuity scheme. I know some operators are disappointed that they were found ineligible because they did not have a minimum annual turnover, as the Deputy said, of €50,000. The rationale for this requirement is that the focus of the tourism business continuity scheme is to support strategic tourism businesses to offset fixed costs incurred in 2020 and support them to continue operating in 2021. That eligibility criteria for the €50,000 threshold is based on the likelihood that for a business with a turnover of less than €50,000, the non-payroll fixed costs will be sufficiently low to enable the owners to furlough the business by availing of other state aids, namely, income supports such as the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, and employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS, thereby enabling these businesses to re-emerge as public health restrictions ease.

I am personally absolutely supportive of and would love to see an all-Ireland soccer team. We need to see both the FAI and Irish Football Association, IFA, trying to have that discussion on a shared island basis. We need to support cross-Border initiatives and co-operation. We have seen great co-operation over other parts of our sports system on a whole range of different sports. It is about having that space for both associations to discuss and work through it. I support all cross-Border initiatives. It would be great to see football in Ireland follow what has happened in many other sports.

I do not have too many onerous questions. They are not too complex. We have spoken a lot about young people returning to training. I believe that is happening this week and everyone is very excited about it. Does the Minister of State have any idea of when they are actually going to return? I know it is asking him repeatedly to predict something that may not be possible but they are eager to get out and actually play matches and compete again. This is specifically about young people playing matches. Does the Minister of State have any thoughts on when that will happen over the next period?

My other question is around funding for local clubs that have previously drawn down banks loans and other things to pay for upgrading community facilities. They are obviously still facing the repayment of these loans but they have no funding streams at the moment. I know some money was allocated, but clubs are still suffering. Does the Minister of State have any thoughts on that?

The Minister outlined really substantial packages around outdoor performances to support the industry. Does she have any idea or guidance, however, on how those outdoor performances will work over the summer? There is a great package to support the industry but how will it work in terms of guidelines? Again, I am asking the Minister to work within a parameter of slight impossibility with the virus. We had some guidelines for last summer. Does the Minister have any thoughts on that or guidelines for this year?

I thank Senator Hoey for her very pertinent questions. Last year when we had young people training in pods of 15, one of the bits of feedback we received from the sports system was that they were training but were not able to compete. We have a draft paper on this based on the feedback from all the governing bodies. I would like to see competition follow the training in pods of 15.

The next phase after the pods for young people is obviously to allow adults and young adults in pods of 15 to get back training and participating, and then it is hoped, competition will follow. We have tried to put a structure around that with the governing bodies and get feedback. We will bring that to Government. When it is possible, I would like to see that happen soon. I share the Senator's point.

A clubs aid fund was part of the mix last year in terms of Covid-19 support. As part of the funding we gave to governing bodies, we also had a key stream of funding in the context of the resilience fund. That was drawn down through the governing bodies. I am hopeful this year that clubs and the whole grassroots system will play a key role. I share the Senator's point. The feedback I have received from many of the clubs I am involved with locally and from other clubs throughout the country is, as the Senator said, that debt is continuing and perhaps membership is falling. We recognise that and we will try to reflect it in the supports we deliver through the year.

I share the Senator's enthusiasm and look forward to a return of outdoor performances. Unfortunately, the public health advice is that it is still too early to say when that will happen. We must look at the case numbers, hospitalisations, vaccinations and variants of concern. As the Senator will be aware, the Government will meet in advance of 4 May to review the level of restrictions and see what can be done.

I have two schemes in place to facilitate that. The €5 million for live performance schemes in local authority areas is to employ and engage live performers during the summer months and help them programme for outdoor live performances. The outdoor public spaces scheme of up to €250,000 is for projects to create those spaces for us all to enjoy. At the minute, however, it is too early to say when but I am cautiously optimistic for the summer.

I thank the beirt Airí for coming in and giving us their time today. Like the Minister of State, I will be leaving early to attend the Business Committee meeting.

I want to ask about GAA clubs, especially rural clubs, which have suffered, as have soccer and many other clubs.

They were trying to put on activities and found themselves with 5 km runs, including virtual runs. My GAA club, Caisleán Nua na Súire, has had to cut the 5 km virtual run three Sundays in a row owing to deaths of family members of club members. It is very difficult on the clubs themselves to get money. At national level they may get money, and I know the gate receipts are down, but clubs are stretched, especially clubs that are involved in projects and have applied to and have perhaps been successful with the sports capital grant. They have to make up other money and pay for the ongoing insurance and running costs and everything else.

I also want to ask about golf. I have never played golf in my life but I cannot understand how two or four persons at a golf club cannot continue playing - or a tennis club, for that matter, where there is no contact and there is plenty of space and plenty of fresh air.

I also want to ask about places such as Brú Ború in Cashel. It is a wonderful cultural centre run by Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann, by Labhrás Ó Murchú agus a bhean chéile, Una. Iar-Sheanadóir is ea Labhrás. Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann has done work there over the decades giving tuition and training, instilling confidence into young people, ag rince agus ag ceol agus gach rud, travelling the world and exposing our Irish culture to the world, literally every continent. It has gone out on various presidential visits as well and has entertained people from all over the world. It needs supports. It has not approached me but it is a wonderful venture. There are a number of branches in the country and they need supports to be able to get back up and running. There are archivists working there as well. These places that are locked up are suffering. Is there any way the Department might be able to reach out to them? I know it is all sport today, but there is the thorny issue all the time of the various kinds of dance schools, na scoileanna rince, that have felt discriminated against and felt, with the onset now of a return to youth sport, which is great, that they will take the buachaillí óga agus na cailíní away from the dancing and that maybe they will lose interest. It is hard enough to keep young boys interested in dancing. This will be direct competition for the dance schools because people want to get out and take part in whatever activities they can, and if the sport is available and dance schools are not, that will be denied to them.

We will let the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, go first because I think a significant-----

I thank Deputy McGrath for his questions. Going back to a similar question from Senator Hoey about the impact of clubs, I fully recognise and acknowledge that. That is why last year there was more than €11 million - nearly €12 million, in fact - in respect of the sports club resilience fund. We are conscious about funding requirements this year and that we need to ensure many of our sport and grassroots systems survive, as Deputy McGrath said, so we will look to support our clubs as they get back and are able to open up. That is a key consideration in the discussions we are having with governing bodies.

Deputy McGrath mentioned golf and tennis, and I acknowledge his point. The phased return to sport is cautious and staggered, and next week the Government will assess the broader reopening of society again. Sport will be a key part of that, and I hope we will have a further reopening in those particular sports and others across the sport system. I might let the Minister, Deputy Martin, come in on dance specifically and the other questions.

Minister, I think you are muted again, unfortunately. We want to hear you.

Sorry about that. I just keep switching on and off.

I am very familiar with the great work done by Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann. My children participate in it by Zoom. It has done a wonderful job of keeping it going, even though it is by Zoom. My Department does gives funding and grant assistance to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann. Additional resources were given last year for its great work, and we are engaged with Comhaltas on an ongoing basis as to its needs. Outdoor dance classes will resume in line with outdoor training for young people next week, but I am happy to engage with specific groups if Deputy McGrath wants to give me the details.

I welcome the Minister and the Minister of State to the committee. I am glad to say this Oireachtas joint committee has played a significant role in advocating the reform of nightlife and licensing laws in our towns and cities, well before the establishment of the night-time economy task force. The previous Oireachtas joint committee gave a platform to campaigners, councils, representatives of the Department of Justice and business people to platform this issue. I want to see this committee make a similar contribution because bars, clubs, music venues, concert venues, cultural institutions, etc., cannot and absolutely should not reopen their doors on the same terms as they closed, not least because this would be an incredibly important part of any stimulus package post pandemic but also because people are fed up with out-of-date licensing laws. All bodies and organisations that have come before us recently have called for reform in this area. Therefore, my question to the Minister, Deputy Martin, is this: when the Department announces a roadmap for the reopening of the economy, will nightclubs and music venues be included? They were excluded from previous roadmaps. Will the night-time economy task force report be published and publicly available? When will it be published? Will we see real changes, including later opening hours this year? Will the special exemption order system be scrapped before the industry reopens?

I have another question on perhaps a separate matter. The Creative Ireland programme was due to come to an end in 2022. It has made a significant contribution, not least to the creative schools element of the programme. It would be disappointing were it to come to an end. Has the Minister come to a view as to what its status will be post 2022?

The night-time economy is a hugely important sector, as the Senator said, contributing to our economy and our cultural and creative sectors. It can have a really positive impact on our well-being and has really felt the brunt of the pandemic due to the sector's very nature. I was delighted to establish the night-time economy task force last July, and the Senator will be aware that it has been examining all the challenges facing the vibrant night-time culture and economy such as regulations and licensing laws, transport and diversity of cultural activities. A huge demand for diversity of offering and flexibility in the operating environment arose from in-depth and extensive consultations. There has been a positive indication from the Minister, Deputy McEntee, regarding the modernisation of the licensing laws. That is a really positive outcome from the ongoing work of the task force. The task force is due to finalise its report, I expect, in the coming weeks with its practical recommendations, and I intend to publish the report once I have reflected on the findings, so yes, it will be published and available to the Senator. However, we have to get much more creative in our thinking and in innovative solutions to the challenges facing the night-time economy. Every opportunity has to be explored.

Senator Warfield is correct that the current iteration of Creative Ireland will come to an end next year. My officials are preparing proposals, which I hope to bring to Cabinet, that will seek to extend the programme, in particular Creative Communities, through local authorities and Creative Ireland's wonderful work increasing access to creative opportunities for our young people. That has proven to be really impactful and I would like to see it continue. I hope to see that report in May.

I thank the Minister on behalf of the music sector in west County Cork, the live venues, sound engineers and everybody else who breathed a sigh of relief at the announcement of the extension of the live performance support scheme, LPSS. It is hugely welcome. I watched some of the productions before Christmas as part of the pilot scheme. I think the Minister will agree they were absolutely phenomenal and there is huge gratitude that there has been that significant investment in the continuation of the scheme.

I want to spend my time on tourism and the hospitality sector. There is a need for a solid, clear plan for how we will deal with the months and years ahead. As the Minister knows, businesses crave certainty and that is exactly the same for those involved in hospitality. They crave certainty in order to have security and be able to think about their future. For that reason, such businesses need clear direction and a clear path ahead. I do appreciate how difficult that is in Covid times when we are not 100% sure about the future of this pandemic but the more certainty we can provide for them, the more sure we can be there will still be a hospitality sector when we come out of this. The sector is losing skills and losing staff to other sectors because of that uncertainty. Whether we are talking about a hotel, a restaurant or whatever other business, they are not sure whether they will still be in existence by this time next year so I would like a comment on that. I acknowledge the Minister mentioned the national tourism policy in her opening statement. We just need some clarity and businesses in the hospitality sector will be so grateful for that.

I have some specific questions and apologise if they have already been asked. Will we see the 9% VAT rate extended to 2025?

The Covid restrictions support scheme, CRSS, has been the lifeblood of so many in the hospitality sector. Will we see an extension of it and will we see an increase because it is exactly what the sector is calling for? Will we see an extension of the EWSS until the end of the year, at the very least?

I ask the Minister to comment on the stay-and-spend scheme. Can we acknowledge that it has not been a success? I have suggested before in the committee that we should look at a national voucher scheme whereby families and the Irish population can spend money within the local economy in order that we can see money going back into the economy, as opposed to a tax relief scheme of which, let us face it, people are less likely to avail.

Are there plans to have members of the restaurant sector and representatives of pubs that do not serve food on the tourism task force? It is a very important question because I believe they are not represented at the moment and it is important that their views are known.

I know there are a lot of questions but my final point is on the small business assistance scheme. The €50,000 limit on turnover is freezing out a lot of smaller businesses and I would love to see that limit drop. I think the Minister has about a minute left to address some of those points. The main one I would like her to address is the point about certainty, clarity, direction and a path going forward.

I thank the Deputy for his feedback on the LPSS. I know that venues such as De Barra's Folk Club, Connolly's of Leap and many others did great work under the scheme. We hope to see a lot more of this with the recent scheme which closed for applications just last week.

I absolutely understand the sector's need for clarity and certainty. I have extensive and ongoing engagement with the sector. However, it is still about the public health advice, as I said earlier. It is still too early to say how and when other restrictions should be eased, given the current uncertainties. Based on my engagement with people from the sector, they find the speculation quite unhelpful so I do not want to engage in it. I prefer certainty too but at the minute, the restrictions and the public health advice do not allow me to give that certainty just yet. It comes down to the case numbers, the hospitalisations, the vaccinations and the variants. The Government is meeting in advance of 4 May to look at what May, June and July will look like and as I said earlier, I am cautiously optimistic, and when it is safe to do so we will look at that. There is also the tourism and hospitality forum. I addressed that issue regarding the oversight group, which is a more representative group and the bodies the Deputy is talking about are part of the tourism and hospitality forum the Tánaiste and I have established. We will meet again in May. At the last meeting, we brought the Taoiseach in to hear the concerns of all the members. The Restaurants Association of Ireland, the Irish Hotels Federation, the Vintners Federation of Ireland, the Licensed Vintners Association, Drinks Ireland, Fáilte Ireland and Tourism Ireland are just some of the stakeholders in the forum.

On the specific supports the Deputy mentioned, everything will be examined. A lot of those supports are in the recommendations of that tourism oversight group so I have brought that to the attention of my Cabinet colleagues and we will look at everything in the context of the national economic recovery plan.

On the stay-and-spend scheme, as I mentioned earlier, the stop-start nature of the pandemic has resulted in the scheme being completely underutilised. I am in favour of a scheme that would give a boost to the industry in the off-season. It was designed for the off-season and has attracted consumers. It was my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, who did that. It was an innovative scheme but as I said, the stop and start nature of the pandemic led to it being underutilised. It is anticipated the Minister for Finance will take stock of the scheme as we reach the end of the month and look to see what appropriate measures could be put in place for the off-peak season.

I thank the Minister and Minister of State for coming in. Over the past 12 to 18 months I have got into the habit of saying that every day is a bonus and your health is your wealth of life. Sport plays a major part in the lives of many people in Ireland. Even internationally, Ireland is known as being a sporting nation. I believe we have missed a major opportunity on the island of Ireland. The Government and the Norther Ireland Executive had an opportunity to work very closely together and we failed really badly. Sporting organisations are among those which should be working very closely together. I ask the Minister and Minister of State when was the last time they spoke to their counterparts in Northern Ireland. From my perspective as someone from a Border town like Dundalk, it is very important we work very closely with Northern bodies. For example, golf resumed last week in Northern Ireland. A considerable number of people from Dundalk and the surrounding areas, and even from Dublin, to whom I have been talking went up there to play golf. That is wrong at the moment, especially as it is the one island. Do not get me wrong, I welcome the fact that as of Monday, our elite sports people are back training and participating but we should be working more closely with the North. I am very disappointed we do not have more of a roadmap and we need clarity, which is very important going forward.

Who makes these recommendations, be they for Gaelic football, soccer, rugby, golf or whatever? Take Gaelic games for example. Who makes the decisions that clubs can go back at a certain time and can train at certain times? One sporting organisation is saying it is coming from the Government and vice versa. People just want to know who makes these recommendations. Going back to the example of golf, last week many people went up to the North and were playing in groups of four. As of next Monday, golf is resuming in the South and two golfers may go out every eight minutes. It does not seem to be right. It is two people going around a big open space of between 100 and 150 acres. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. What I want to know, therefore, is who is making these decisions. Let us be manly enough to own up and say we need people back outside. The chances of catching the coronavirus is 20 times lower outside. I would appreciate answers to some of those questions.

I appreciate Deputy Fitzpatrick's questions. There is strong bilateral engagement between the Department and the Northern Ireland equivalent and its officials. The North-South Ministerial Council is the forum where we regularly engage. There was a meeting prior to Christmas. I am not sure of the month, but I think it was November. There was due to be one in the last number of weeks but it was cancelled because of the current circumstances in the North. I agree that North-South co-operation on sport has a major role, if one considers sport as a space for peace building in communities in the North. One thing we intend to do through the shared island unit in the Department of the Taoiseach is to have that conversation on advancing co-operation on sport and to use that unit to advance the use of sport as a pillar to build peace. I am ambitious about that in particular.

The Deputy asked about golf and the broader reopening. We were only in a position in recent weeks to start reopening sport. Golf Ireland has issued guidance on that, which the Deputy mentioned. I am hopeful. The Government is meeting again next week. We have brought forward other decisions, for example, on allowing young people to return to training next week. The Government decided that. We want to see a broader reopening of sport and to prioritise that because it is outdoors and is important for physical and mental health. We also want to catch up on lost time. I recognise the difficulty the suspension of sport has caused for so many people over the last number of months, but we are ambitious to prioritise that in the Government decision next week.

Can the Minister of State answer the question about who is responsible for making the decisions? Is it the Government or the sporting organisations? The sporting organisations are saying that only a certain number of people can train. Who is setting the rules? For example, the GAA stated last weekend that only inter-county elite athletes can train, but those under 20 years old could not train. Was that decision made by the GAA or the Government? For me, a 20-year-old is an adult, and they are elite and play inter-county football. They should be allowed to train with the adults. Who is making the decisions, the Government or the sporting organisations?

The guidance has been issued to the GAA on the return to senior inter-county training. It has been issued for Monday of this week. I realise that many young adults want to get back to training, be it with their clubs or their counties. That will be part of the review we will have next week for May. It is very important that we get many of our young adults back playing. We recognise the current difficulty. It is a matter of weeks before we get much more of the sporting system up and running. Senior inter-county was part of that this week, but there is also broadening high-performance sport. Many pathway athletes across a range of sports have not been able to train and we prioritised them as well. They have got the go-ahead from next Monday.

I have one question on sport and then I will focus on questions relating to the arts. I have raised my question on sport directly with the Minister and the Minister of State previously. It concerns the Winter Olympics in Beijing. I am of the view that Ireland should encourage moving the Winter Olympics next year from Beijing to deny the Chinese Communist Party propaganda opportunities. I would be grateful to know the Government's position on moving them. I do not believe we should boycott the games because we should not disadvantage the athletes. However, under no circumstances should we give official Government recognition to the Beijing Winter Olympics and we should support a move.

I have a number of direct questions on the arts. When can we reopen the theatres? The Minister was quite imaginative with some of the pilot projects, but we would like to know when we can reopen the theatres and, indeed, dance classes and dance schools.

Outdoor sports will be permitted for groups of up to 15 from next week. Will that also apply to outdoor arts activities, in other words, outdoor arts classes, dance classes, arts groups, music workshops and so forth, in the same way as is the case with sporting events?

My third question relates to the specific challenge faced by circuses. Circuses were not eligible for the Covid restrictions support scheme, CRSS, or the employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS. They are facing particular difficulties at present so what supports can the Minister put in place?

I also have a question about the situation for elite musicians and artists. Could they be treated in the same as elite sports people? For example, if an international pianist was seeking to do work here, he or she would be treated in the same way. I would be grateful for her view on that.

Finally, I have raised this matter with the Minister previously and it is something she is quite passionate about, but could she give an update on the proposed universal basic income pilot scheme for artists? When we emerge from this pandemic will we examine some way of supporting a direct model of providing basic income for those who are operating in the arts?

I appreciate the question. Senator Byrne has been in written correspondence with us on the issue as well. It is very important that any host country supports human rights and fundamental freedoms. In terms of Ireland's engagement with China and the issues the Senator raised, we have reflected that to the Minister for Foreign Affairs along with the correspondence the Senator submitted to us. European Ministers for sports are clear that all countries hosting events should respect the European Convention on Human Rights, the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights and fundamental freedoms. I have reflected that to the Minister for Foreign Affairs as well.

With regard to the theatres, I conducted that pilot in the Abbey Theatre and in the National Concert Hall, and the feedback was very positive. Due to public health advice, it is still too early to give a definite date for theatres. Obviously, it is something I would like to happen. On the return to live events, the theatre forum is on the expert group that is examining the roadmap for a return. That will be helpful.

Outdoor dance for groups of up to 15 will be permitted. It is the same for all non-contact outdoor activities, so it will be allowed.

On the elite artists, we are engaging with the sector on that specific point about artists' travel. Unfortunately, at present there is no opportunity to perform, but we are in engagement with them.

The circus is an art form and it is funded by the Arts Council. The Arts Council is independent in its funding decisions, but I will relay the Senator's concerns to it.

Like me, the Senator is an advocate for the basic income. As I told him, he is pushing an open door with me on the issue. The basic income by its nature supports creativity and innovation. That specific recommendation has been very well received, and not only here. Even internationally, journalists are talking about it. The latest information is that an oversight group has been established to deal with the recommendations. I have given direction to the oversight group to prioritise the basic income. The Ministers in the relevant Departments are supportive of this proposal being examined. Of course, any proposal on this will not just come from my Department so it is positive that the relevant Ministers are supportive. On a personal level, the Senator is pushing an open door with me, as it would be with the Senator. It is the most important recommendation of that report and I have asked the oversight group to prioritise it.

I have a number of questions for the Minister. I am looking for detail on the two outdoor dining grants. Did I hear her correctly that €12 million will be allocated to local authorities and €5 million will be allocated to the outdoor seating and accessory schemes for individual businesses?

The €17 million outdoor dining scheme is being administered by Fáilte Ireland through the local authorities and there are two elements to it. There is the €5 million element, which is for outdoor seating and accessories for tourism and hospitality businesses, and the second element is the €12 million for local authority structures for weatherproofing and outdoor dining infrastructure.

I thank the Minister. How many businesses will be able to avail of these grants, according to her calculations or those of the Department? Did she research the average cost of businesses upgrading their facilities? It looks like outdoor dining will be the only option this year so many individual businesses will have to do major upgrades.

As the Deputy said, the aim of the scheme is to support local authorities and businesses to increase and operate their outdoor dining offering. It is up to the businesses to apply. I am sure many businesses in County Louth will do so.

I am asking about the €5 million awarded for individual businesses. How many businesses will be able to avail of this, according to the Minister's calculations? Did the Department research the average cost for businesses to upgrade their facilities?

That will depend on how many businesses apply and how much money they want. The maximum grant for an individual business is €4,000. It will depend on how many wish to apply and how many wish to go for the €4,000 maximum. Fáilte Ireland will be running the scheme and assessing the applications.

I am curious as to why the maximum grant is €4,000 if no research as such was carried out to find out the cost of an upgrade to individual businesses. It is likely that it will be their only option this year.

It is €4,000 per business. This has been really well received by the Restaurants Association of Ireland and all businesses. I have not heard an individual business question this but rather welcome it. It depends on the individual applications.

I am curious because I spoke to Louth County Council yesterday and the person in charge of the process did not have information as to the amount it would receive. I am curious as to how the €5 million for individual businesses throughout the State was calculated, given the pressure they are under. This is why I am asking.

I understand why the Deputy is asking. Fáilte Ireland did the assessment. The scheme was developed by Fáilte Ireland based on its knowledge and engagement with the sector.

The Minister does not know what research was done.

It is not a case that I do not know, Deputy Munster, with respect. What I am saying is Fáilte Ireland developed the scheme based on its knowledge and engagement with the sector. Based on the response to this from the sector it has been very well received. It is one of the most positively received schemes we have and I have not heard the questions being raised by the Deputy. I have only heard positive affirmation of the scheme.

Fáilte Ireland did not forward its reasoning for the €5 million allocation.

I can get the information for the Deputy but I suspect that for the businesses concerned the priority is not the reasoning of the allocation but rather the actual allocation and how helpful it is to them.

I know it is welcome but there are concerns that it may not be sufficient, given the pressure that individual businesses in the hospitality sector are under at present. It would be useful to have the information.

The possible increase and extension of the CRSS has been raised. In her opening statement, the Minister said the hospitality sector has borne the brunt and has been one of the worst affected sector. She said in responses that she has brought this to the attention of her colleagues in government. What pressure has she put on them? Is she insisting that it be done in the recovery plan? Does she have public health conditions that will need to be met to help us gauge when we might see the sector opening up? I know she said she cannot predict what is coming with regard to public health guidelines and NPHET. Has she been given information on percentages that will need to be vaccinated? Will it be receipt of one or two vaccines? What would the R-number have to be? The Minister does not need me to tell her the industry is crying out for some sort of roadmap. Has she been given this information or direction?

I have one more question and I will be brief.

The Deputy is out of time.

It is with regard to the Minister's scheme that is similar to that proposed by my party last year because the stay and spend scheme was a bit of a disaster.

I ask the Minister to respond in a word if she could because we are out of time.

All supports, including the CRSS, will be considered. I am a strong advocate for the sector and this is reflected every time the Taoiseach makes an announcement. I reflect that the sector needs supports. I am a very strong advocate and voice for the sector and it knows it from its engagement with me. As I said earlier in reply to other members, the Tánaiste and I will meet the tourism and hospitality sectors in May. We have brought in the Taoiseach to hear their concerns. I asked for recommendations on the supports to be on the agenda for the meeting that the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and I attended. I felt it was also essential for the Taoiseach to hear them. The Deputy can be sure I am a loud advocate for the sector.

Reopening is dependent on public health conditions. It is about the public health advice and the case numbers, hospitalisations, vaccinations and variants of concern. I am anxious for the sectors to reopen but we want them to do so as soon as it is safe.

With regard to the stay and spend scheme, when the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, launched it he did not foresee the stop-start nature of the pandemic and how it led to the scheme being completely underutilised. As I said in reply to previous speakers, I am in favour of a scheme that gives an essential boost to the industry. Everything should be considered by the Government.

I thank the Minister. I have to bring this to a conclusion because we are way over time.

I can ask Fáilte Ireland to engage with Louth County Council on the scheme if that would be helpful.

I thank the Minister.

My first question is for the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers. Earlier, we touched briefly on the audit the Department is conducting on sport infrastructure throughout the country. Where are we on this? When is it intended to conclude it? Does the Minister of State have any idea on what the findings of the report will be?

As is the case with the Minister, Deputy Martin, the arts is a forte of mine. I want to ask about Creative Ireland, which one of my colleagues touched on briefly. Some time ago, partnerships were formalised through Creative Ireland. These were the local creative youth partnerships.

Cavan and Monaghan Education and Training Board, ETB, was one of the pioneering champions of local partnerships in respect of its partnership with the local authorities. Unfortunately, it was not selected when the Department and Creative Ireland were establishing those partnerships more formally. Instead, Kerry, Laois and Offaly, and Limerick and Clare ETBs were successful. Does that section of the Department have any plans for similar future endeavours? Major plans must be afoot in respect of schools not being able to carry out the normal activities Creative Ireland would ordinarily be doing. I hope the Minister and the Minister of State might have some insight into what plans Creative Ireland might have to further establish these creative local partnerships. It would be important and interesting to hear about that aspect.

I concur with my colleagues on the committee regarding the living wage for the arts and entertainment sector, which is a commitment in the programme for Government. The Government has asked the Low Pay Commission to design that initiative. Will the Minister and the Minister of State perhaps flesh out the plans to pursue that goal?

Turning to the hospitality sector, we touched on this aspect but I am not clear concerning one element. It was recommended that a representative from the restaurant and pub sector be appointed to the tourism recovery oversight group. Has that been done? I am not clear on that point. If it has not been done, when is it intended to do that? Will the same be done for the boards of Fáilte Ireland and Tourism Ireland? I refer to the appointment of representatives from the restaurant and pub sector.

On the stay and spend scheme, we have to be honest that it has not been as successful as we would have liked. What is the vision for a new scheme that might be initiated? I will go to the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, first because he is pressed for time.

I thank the Chair and I appreciate the questions. There are two aspects. An ongoing audit measures participation to try to track national sports policy and ensure we hit our participation targets up to 2027. We are trying to underpin a sports action plan in that regard. Turning to the other question concerning auditing infrastructure, major work is being undertaken by Sport Ireland to tag every piece of infrastructure in the country. It will be a very useful resource in trying to align funding to areas where there are serious gaps, such as in disadvantaged areas, rural areas and particular regions in certain sports. That will allow us to focus investment in funding in areas where there are obvious gaps. I will ask Sport Ireland to send the committee a note on that initiative and a timeline concerning when it will be concluded. It is, however, significant work which could have a major long-term impact on how we fund sport and sports infrastructure.

I thank the Minister of State.

Regarding local creative youth partnerships, those are in the gift of the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, as it is led by her Department. A significant announcement about that initiative will be made on 13 May at the creative youth conference, in which the Taoiseach, the Minister for Education and I will participate along with panellists from the areas of education and business. We are very keen to expand these partnerships and I have engaged with the Minister for Education in that regard. As the Chair said, the ETBs have been brilliant at targeting the most disadvantaged young people, and the Deputy knows this from her previous work.

Regarding the basic income, I express my thanks to the committee for its support of the proposal. I welcome the committee's support for this initiative. I reiterate that I am working with colleagues to progress the appraisal of this recommendation. I am very supportive of it. I have indicated to the oversight group that the number one priority is determining how this can be done. The Ministers from the relevant Department, whose officials sit on that oversight group, are key in this regard. I confirm those Ministers are supportive of this proposal being examined. That is very positive. I am strongly advocating for a basic income. It would be a game changer for the arts, so it came as no surprise to me that this proposal was being sought as the number one recommendation.

Moving to the tourism oversight group, it is not a representative group. It is there to examine the implementation of the recommendations. What I said was that the restaurant and pub sector had its voice on the tourism and hospitality forum, which the Tánaiste and I set up in the autumn of last year. We have another meeting in May. However, all those relevant sectors which the Chair mentioned are on that tourism and hospitality forum.

Staying with that point, is it possible that the Minister would appoint somebody to the recovery oversight group?

No, because it is not a representative group. The voice of the restaurant and pub sector is heard by the Tánaiste and me in the tourism and hospitality forum. The oversight group is not a representative body.

Moving on to the State boards, those appointments are made through the Public Appointments Service, PAS, process and it is open to all applicants. I do not direct those appointments.

The stay and spend scheme, as I remarked earlier, was completely underutilised because of the stop-start nature of the pandemic. The scheme was designed for the off-peak season. It is my understanding the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, will take stock of the situation and look at the relevant supports. As I said, however, there will be no cliff edge cut-off of supports for the sector, and we will look to see what relevant supports can be put in place for that off-peak season.

I thank the Minister and the Minister of State for their comprehensive answers to my questions. I call Deputy Cathal Crowe, who has joined the meeting.

I thank the Chair for allowing me to participate. I also thank the Minister and the Minister of State. I was following this session on and off, but another meeting coincided with this one and I apologise for not being here. I thank the Minister for everything she is doing. Many positive announcements have come from her Department in recent weeks and involving a great deal of outdoor activities. That bodes well and gives much hope for what can be achieved in a west of Ireland county in the months to come as we try to kick-start tourism.

Has the Minister given any thought to creating a major international marketing plan for Ireland post Covid-19? The Gathering occurred in 2013 and we have had some great events which have brought hundreds of thousands of people to our coasts. It is time we looked beyond the Covid-19. We are probably now looking to the summer of 2022 as the time when there could be a major initiative to bring passengers from the United States into Ireland to spend time in the west and along the Wild Atlantic Way and to visit other parts of Ireland. Has the Minister examined the possibility of running something major in that regard next year?

We have kept funding for international marketing in place with Tourism Ireland all along. Contained within the programme for Government is The Year of The Invitation. I think that initiative is along the lines of what Deputy Crowe is talking about and it is a commitment in the programme for Government. It is envisaged for the moment for 2023, but we are engaging with the sector in that regard. However, I think that is exactly along the lines of what Deputy Crowe was saying.

That is good to hear and we need something major to bring tourists back into the country. There is a perception, which is probably warranted to an extent, across the Atlantic that Ireland is a no-go place at the moment and it is effectively because much of the world is no-go at the moment due to Covid-19. However, we need people beyond our shores to know that this is an island of welcomes when we get beyond the peak Covid-19 phase and international air travel becomes possible again.

The Minister will understand my next point well, but tourism and hospitality, along with aviation, has probably been the most exposed sector during Covid-19. Those areas, by their own admission, are going to require long-term supports. Will the Minister outline some of the measures she anticipates being in place for those sectors? I refer not just to this summer and autumn but in the longer term as those sectors try to make a full recovery.

Recommendations concerning the requisite supports were presented to me and I brought them to Cabinet. Everything will be considered, and the outcome will depend on when things reopen. The Government has given the guarantee that there will be no cliff edge cut-off in the supports. These sectors will need support beyond their reopening. We are very aware of that aspect from our engagement with the industry. That commitment exists. It was recognised in the national economic recovery plan that tourism was one of the sectors most impacted. The Taoiseach also flagged this as one of the sectors which will need supports on the path ahead.

Everything will be considered for the supports, not just for reopening but also beyond.

That is good and reassuring to hear. My last question is to the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers. Two years ago, while I was a councillor, I put down a motion proposing that Ireland would once again look at hosting an early stage of the Tour de France race. It was very successfully held in Ireland in 1998. It took two years of planning. It ran really well. They ran a circuit along the southern coast counties and there was also a stage in Dublin. Like many council motions, I believe it got buried and never saw the light of day again. Lo and behold, I found out that it actually did make its way up to the Department and it was being considered by an expert advisory group. As we look beyond Covid at opportunities, will the Minister of State's Department look at the possibility of bringing a stage of the Tour de France back to Ireland? Would the Minister of State consider the Wild Atlantic Way? Better still, we have EuroVelo 1, the international cycle route going down the whole west of Ireland, looping down through Clare, Limerick and down into Cork and Kerry. There are some fabulous routes there. Would the Department look at restarting that?

The UK Prime Minister, Mr. Johnson, has made comments over the last 48 hours - and I am not comparing the Minister of State to the Prime Minister - where he has come out quite strongly against the European Super League. For any Irish football clubs that are listening in, they may not believe in their heads that they will ever win a champions league, but certainly the hearts and the hopes of a nation believe it. When we consider what Dundalk FC has done and what other big clubs have done in trying to get to Europe and to move through the phases, they live in belief, and this is what keeps fans going. Does the Minister of State plan on making a strong statement in opposition to the European Super League proposal from an Irish perspective and in the context of a club structure that really relies on what comes in through grant supports from UEFA and the FAI?

I appreciate Deputy Crowe's two questions. On the first question, we are developing a major events policy. I share the Deputy's ambition around the Tour de France or any other major event we could host. Obviously, there would be enormous economic tourism and sporting benefits to such a proposal. To someone who was born in the west, even though I live in Dublin, I share the Deputy's ambition for the whole of the west of Ireland and the Wild Atlantic Way from Kerry, to Clare and up to Donegal. As a major events unit in the Department, we are very much open to proposals that we can host and make work. The 2030 World Cup is a possibility and we are engaging on that basis. We are very much open for proposals. There is a fixed budget there to work on major event proposals and economic and business cases are developed on the back of those. We are keen to get a mix of sports, which is part of the discussion on major events, to ensure we open the eyes of our young people and everyone across the State to a whole range of sports. I hear what the Deputy has said on the Tour de France.

Senator Cassells has also raised the issue of the European Super League proposal and we absolutely agree and share those views. It is bad for football in Europe and is bad for Ireland as a small nation. It undermines leagues such as the League of Ireland. It is about elitism, a closed shop, and excess capitalism. The Taoiseach has sent a very strong message, along with other European leaders. I will be sending a very strong message with other sports ministers across Europe. We will also be supporting UEFA and the whole principle of UEFA, which is to respect all leagues and nations, and all young people across the world where football is about participation and community. It is not about this type of excessive capitalism that we have seen in recent days. The reaction from the political system in Ireland and across Europe has shown great unity of purpose across the board. We will be sending a very strong message. The Taoiseach has referenced that this afternoon. I will be doing the same through the FAI, UEFA and the European Union, that we need to ensure football is grassroots based, is community led, and that all teams can dream big. In my work as a Minister of State our constant engagement with the FAI has been to focus on strengthening the League of Ireland and our grassroots football development. Hopefully, when we get people back playing we can show that. From a capital perspective the Minister, Deputy Martin, and I have demonstrated that in recent weeks. The European Super League proposal is everything that sport should reject. I am completely opposed to it and will work with all colleagues to send a strong message from an Irish perspective.

I thank the Minister of State. I will have to ask him to-----

Out of interest, what team does the Minister of State support?

I do not believe that he can reveal that. The Minister of State may have revealed that on Twitter last night. I think I saw something all right.

Very good. We will check Twitter. I thank the Minister of State.

We have one final request from Senator Malcolm Byrne.

I thank the Chair for allowing me back in again. I echo Deputy Crowe's suggestion that we invite the Tour de France back to Ireland. I am sure Deputy Mythen would agree that it would be most welcome if it was to start in Wexford once again, as it did 23 years ago.

I wish to come back to the issue of the reopening of theatres. I know that the Minister cannot give a specific date but maybe the Minister will confirm, if possible, if we are considering May for the reopening of museums, galleries and art spaces. We had a period last summer where we were able to reopen theatres safely, and theatres operated very effectively in a safe manner. The Minister obviously had a pilot there. If we are going to start to open other venues where social distancing can happen I would argue that there is more chance of interaction between people in the supermarket than in a theatre. I would like the Minister to flesh out some of the issues around the criteria and the decisions that will be required to open the theatres.

I will try to finish on a positive note. The artistic and music communities have helped us through this pandemic. It has been a really difficult period for artists and musicians. It will also be very important for that community, as part of our recovery, to recognise the need to rebuild our cultural identities too. I ask the Minister to conclude by talking about, as part of the Government's programme, how we are going to culturally rebuild as we come out of this period.

As I said earlier, we are guided by the public health advice, which depends on the numbers for case numbers, hospitalisations, variants and vaccinations. We can be cautiously optimistic for reopening but the difference with museums, galleries or theatres is that theatres are enclosed and seated venues. This is quite different from walking through a gallery. Nobody would like to see them open more than I would. This is why I made sure to have that pilot for theatre in December. We will continue to be guided by the health advice, but the Senator can rest assured that I will be advocating for this. As soon as it is safe to do so, they will reopen. We must, however, be guided by public health advice.

What about museums, art galleries and such specific venues as opposed to theatres? Is there a confirmed or likely opening date for them? Are we going to look at May?

We said we would look at May for museums and galleries. We have indicated that when we come to the end of April, we will look at museums and galleries. This is a positive first step for the reopening of culture and arts. It is significant that this is happening in May. As I said, theatre is slightly different because it is enclosed seating. As soon as it is safe to do so, rest assured I will be looking for that. We have to go with public health advice on this. Based on the recent numbers it is looking more positive for us. I absolutely agree on the issue of rebuilding our cultural identity. We are a nation that has spoken so much about how much we value the arts.

We have all felt it and as we emerge out of this, it is not just a case of getting these cultural institutions reopened or performers back on stage but of supporting them beyond that and showing the intrinsic value they have to us and our very being as a nation. That is essential. I am absolutely determined to work with my Cabinet colleagues, performers and all stakeholders to identify the best way not just to support them but to really emphasise the value we place on our arts and culture, which have been so sorely missed in the past year. I do not know if the Senator caught the programme on TG4 for President Michael D. Higgins's birthday. It was wonderful. Every time I hear magnificent performances like that it brings sadness to me, as I think it does to everyone else, because it emphasises how much we miss hearing those performances and how we yearn to return to theatre or hear someone sing live, and more important, how that performer yearns to have that interaction with an audience again. My priority right now is the reopening of this sector as soon as possible but beyond that, it is working with colleagues like the Senator on identifying the ways we can show how much we as a nation value our arts and culture.

I thank the Minister and the Senator. There is nobody after me so I might take this opportunity to put two issues to the Minister. I did not see Deputy Munster's hand but I will bring her back in again. I have an observation and a question. I will not comment on this matter any further because it has come up a lot and the Minister will have received this message from this committee loud and clear. We have had the hospitality sector before the committee and we have had in-depth presentations from the sector about the impact of Covid-19. One very loud and clear message that came from that sector was to ask the Minister to consider putting a restaurant and pub representative on the tourism recovery oversight group. That was certainly a clear message from those on the ground who are at the coalface of Covid-19. I ask the Minister to put that on her list of items for consideration. Perhaps she could revert via letter to this committee having considered that proposition.

What State agency has a remit for hospitality? Fáilte Ireland has told the Restaurants Association of Ireland that it does not have a remit for food for tourists. Who is in charge of that?

I ask members to please communicate with me and I will give everything consideration and get back to them. Did the committee communicate in writing with Fáilte Ireland on that query?

Okay. I will connect with Fáilte Ireland on that exact question.

It is more of an information point for the Minister. Fáilte Ireland told the Restaurants Association of Ireland that it does not have a remit. The question is who is in charge of food for tourists. The Minister might revert to the committee in writing following this meeting.

I call Deputy Munster.

I have a final, very quick, question. Does the Minister have an update on any progress by the Future of Media Commission? Specifically, when does she expect to have recommendations on the licensing portion of its work?

I would hope to have that in the summer. That is the plan for when to expect the report from the commission, which will include all the recommendations. I do not expect it to give individual recommendations at different times. I expect to see that report in the summer.

That brings us to the natural conclusion of our debate. I thank the Minister and Minister of State most sincerely for their comprehensive presentations and insightful thoughts and ideas, as well as their willingness to soak up suggestions from this committee and our members. We appreciate that. Anything we have brought up is reflective of what we have heard at previous committee meetings. It is important to state that. I thank members for their engagement. It has been a very good and beneficial meeting and I am sure it will inform our work going forward.

We have a very interesting discussion to look forward to at our next meeting with the Federation of Irish Sport, the Ladies Gaelic Football Association, the Camogie Association and the Gaelic Players Association, where we will discuss issues facing women in sport and how to progress the inroads that have been made from the 2020 campaign. There will be great interest in that from the public, from members and from those who will be making presentations.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.26 p.m. until 6.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 27 April 2020.
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