I welcome from Active Retirement Ireland, Ms Maureen Kavanagh, CEO; Mr. Peter Kavanagh, information and networking officer; Ms Nancy Tynan, treasurer; Ms Mary Daly, secretary; Mr. Kevin Molloy, vice president; and Ms Nell Foley, executive member. I draw their attention to the fact that members of the joint committee have absolute privilege. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. If they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I ask Ms Kavanagh to commence the presentation on the impact of the proposed carbon levy.
Proposed Carbon Tax: Discussion with Active Retirement Ireland
I am concerned that, other than the Vice Chairman, there are no Government members present. This is an important group and it is very disappointing that no Government members are present.
I am here, although I take the point and will not argue. I do not intend to be patronising, but Deputy Ring is the new Fine Gael spokesperson on social protection and Deputy Catherine Byrne the new Fine Gael spokesperson on older persons. If Deputy Shortall does not mind, I welcome them in a special way.
Will the Vice Chairman address the point I have made? I do not want to call a quorum, but this is not acceptable.
I will take steps to deal with the matter, but if the Deputy wants to call a quorum, I have no problem.
I have no wish to hold up the meeting, providing the Vice Chairman takes steps to ensure they come here.
Mr. Kevin Molloy
I am vice president of Active Retirement Ireland and from Gorey. I am accompanied by Ms Maureen Kavanagh, CEO, Mr. Peter Kavanagh, network and information officer, Ms Nancy Tynan, national treasurer, from Thurles, Ms Mary Daly, secretary, from Multyfarnham, County Westmeath, and Ms Nell Foley, a board member from Blackrock, County Dublin.
No one from Tallaght, Ballymun, Crumlin or County Mayo.
Mr. Kevin Molloy
Not today.
Mr. Peter Kavanagh
I live in the Vice Chairman's constituency.
Ms Maureen Kavanagh
We thank the joint committee for the invitation to appear before it. Ours is a national voluntary organisation and our board and NEC are made up of members of the organisation. Active Retirement Ireland is a national voluntary network of 500 members, that is, 500 associations, and the national executive committee, of which this group is representative, comprises 18 of these members, with eight regional councils run by voluntary committees.
What is a local active retirement association? It is a group of older people who come together to manage their own activities and do things for themselves to keep themselves well and active, while contributing to their quality of life and that of their communities. The purpose of Active Retirement Ireland is to enable retired people to enjoy a full and active life and advocate for them. We have three strategic outcomes: to be the organisation people are proud to be part of locally, regionally and nationally; to be a recognised voice on social, health, learning and economic issues in collaboration with other organisations; and to develop the database structure skills needed to do this. We manage a range of activities — cultural, physical, life-long learning, social networking, travel and short breaks. These activities are aimed at reducing loneliness and isolation, learning new skills and meeting new people.
Active Retirement Ireland is concerned about the introduction of a carbon tax without measures to offset the hardship it will impose on some of our members. There are 250,117 people in receipt of the contributory pension, of whom 177,000 are over 70 years, with a further 97,784 in receipt of the non-contributory pension, of whom 79,596 are over 70 years. The total is around 348,000, with some 257,00 of those over 70 years. The majority of older people have contributed to their pensions. If the figures for non-contributory pensions are broken down, there is a gender issue.
I apologise, but there is a vote in the Dáil that we must attend. I will take the opportunity to attend to the matter raised by Deputy Shortall during the suspension.
I apologise that we were obliged to suspend proceedings. There is a small danger that another vote may be called in the Dáil. However, it may not come to that. I also apologise that I was obliged to cut Ms Kavanagh off in mid-sentence. That is the nature of the game. I again welcome her and ask her to continue with her presentation.
Ms Maureen Kavanagh
Before the suspension we were considering the statistics. What we are saying is that the majority of older people have contributed to their State pensions over the years. Active Retirement Ireland considers that the State pension is often seen in the same way as other social transfers. However, it is our view that it is the main and only source of income for people who are 65 years of age and older. The majority of people feel they have contributed to their State pensions over their working lives.
Statistical information on social welfare services indicates that the protection offered by social transfers against the risk of poverty was most evident among the two oldest age groups, namely, 65 to 74 and those over 75. This reflects the relative importance of the State pension and other allowances which people in the age groups to which I refer can access. If social transfers were excluded, the statistical information indicates the at risk of poverty rates for people aged between 65 and 74 and those aged 75 and over would stand at 84% and 89%, respectively. With social transfers, these rates fall to 12% and 10%. This highlights the importance of the State pension in keeping older people out of the poverty trap.
The UN Framework Convention on Climate Change states that carbon tax is a tax on energy use. Active Retirement Ireland is not opposed to the carbon tax. We know that the key objective of taxing carbon emissions is aimed at changing behaviour and to switch expenditure on to alternative energies. This would lead to reduced emissions, encourage greater fuel efficiency, improve the quality of the environment and raise tax revenues. This is really important. The reality is, however, that a disproportionate number of lower income families, including pensioners, are heavily reliant on burning coal and peat. Our members have identified the lack of financial resources as a difficulty when it comes to switching to other fuels.
According to the Department of Finance's budget website, the imposition of the carbon tax will lead to an 8.4% increase in the cost of kerosene home heating oil and a 6% increase in the cost of natural gas. As a result of the higher carbon emissions to which they give rise, there will be increases in the cost of coal and peat briquettes of 11% and 10%, respectively. The price of petrol will increase by 19% and that of diesel will increase by 16%.
The Combat Poverty Agency highlighted that the carbon tax will increase household budgets by €246 per annum, or €4.73 per week. This calculation did not include the cost of heating poorly insulated homes or the additional heating needs of older people. Not only do older people require more protection from the cold, they also need it more often and for longer periods. This is a major issue of concern for Active Retirement Ireland. During the extreme cold snap earlier this year, Active Retirement Ireland was inundated with calls from members who were concerned that their heating bills would be so astronomical that they would not be in a position to pay them. People had to keep their heating on to remain warm.
In 2008, the ESRI estimated that 19% of households could experience fuel poverty. It also stated that rural homes tend to use more energy and more carbon-intensive solid fuels than their urban counterparts. Research indicates that those who live in rural areas are more dependent on solid fuel and oil for their energy needs. The Combat Poverty Agency indicated that the concentration of fuel poverty will be among smaller households, including those of pensioners who live alone. The ESRI stated that the carbon tax would hit people — including older people — in smaller households. We are concerned that the carbon tax will affect older people to a greater degree than others.
Fuel poverty is influenced by three factors, namely, fuel prices, household income and energy efficiency. We are concerned with regard to fuel prices. The household income in this context means social transfers, the State pension, and so on. We are also concerned about old people's energy efficiency needs. Households experiencing fuel poverty tend to cut back on other important things such as food, clothing and transport. This contributes further to poor health and social exclusion. Expenditure on solid fuel accounts for 18.4% of total expenditure on fuel and light. Rural households expenditure on this type of fuel accounts for 24.4% of total expenditure on fuel and light. Evidence of this can be found in the ESRI's report from 2008. Unfortunately, we are not in a position to provide an age breakdown in respect of these figures. It would be interesting to examine such a breakdown.
There are several ways in which we might move forward. As already stated, Active Retirement Ireland is not opposed to the carbon tax. However, there must be a way to introduce a waiver system or alleviate the hardship older people who are dependent on the State pension will experience. One suggestion to alleviate the pressure on people relates to the national fuel scheme for social welfare recipients and those on State pensions. This scheme is means tested and paid for more than 32 weeks. In light of the income that will emanate from the carbon tax, we propose that an additional allowance of €4 per week, for the period over which the fuel scheme is paid, be paid to those in receipt of the State pension. The ESRI proposed raising the income threshold level relating to the fuel allowance means test.
Active Retirement Ireland also suggests that home heating oil should be added to the categories covered under the household benefit package. This fuel is not covered under the scheme but many old people use it to heat their homes. It would be viable to administer the proposed home heating oil allowance in the same way as the free travel scheme is administered. Oil companies could monitor the amount of oil given to recipients of the household benefit package and they could reimbursed for this oil out of the proceeds from the carbon tax. Home heating oil should be added to the list for the household benefit package. Allowances under this package are currently available in respect of electricity, gas and bottled gas.
We were glad to listen to what the representative from the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, had to say about the work that organisation has been doing. However, as Deputy Shortall stated, it has a great deal to do with word of mouth. Mr. Kevin Molloy was just saying that it was through word of mouth that he heard about the warmer homes scheme. The SEAI and the Combat Poverty Agency carried out research in 2009 which indicates that the warmer homes scheme has had a significant impact in terms of reducing fuel poverty. The latter is important but we would like the scheme to be extended countrywide. Our research indicates that the scheme is not available in every county. There are some counties in which it has not yet been taken on board. It is extremely difficult for people to obtain information relating to it unless one comes across such information by accident. That is not good enough, particularly if we are working towards encouraging people to become more energy efficient.
There is a need for greater public awareness in respect of energy efficiency. I refer, in particular, to older people in this regard. Further research must be carried out on the needs of older people in the context of energy use and energy efficiency. Such research is vital if Ireland is to become a far more energy efficient nation.
The benefits from what we are suggesting would be that the Government would be seen to offset a small proportion of the income from the carbon tax as a positive action to benefit older people whose heating needs are greater than those of the general population. If the public awareness programmes we propose were put in place, there would be increased awareness of energy efficiency among older people. Equally, the Government should be seen to use a small proportion of carbon tax income for the purposes of education, research and raising awareness, as originally proposed by the ESRI in its examination of the introduction of a carbon tax.
I thank the committee for giving us the opportunity to make this presentation.
I thank Ms Kavanagh. I now invite colleagues to make contributions and ask questions, to which the representatives might respond.
I thank the Vice Chairman for his compliments. I was delighted to be appointed recently Fine Gael spokesperson on older persons. I am no stranger to active retirement groups, particularly in my area in Dublin South Central in which there is a number of such groups, some of which were mentioned in the presentation.
Active Retirement Ireland is a good news story. It is nice to hear good news stories, as we do not hear enough of them. Having worked in the community, as I did with senior citizens and young people, I know older people have a huge connection with the community and can provide a link with young people. When I worked in my parish and was involved in summer projects and bringing children out, I only had to ask for help and people turned up to give me a hand. I express my thanks to everyone involved who showed such co-operation.
Every parish needs an active retirement group which is an essential part of life. As I have seen in my community, participating with others in the community is of great benefit to persons who would never have decided to become involved in any activity. However, when an active retirement group is formed in their community, they become involved in art classes, bowling and swimming. They become involved in so many activities that it is tiring to list everything they do.
Ms Kavanagh expressed many concerns. I wish to deal with the issue of fuel poverty and particularly the introduction of a carbon tax. I agree with her that heating oil must be an essential part of a credit system. A great number of people still use home heating oil in city and country areas in which there is no access to a gas supply and to which a gas pipeline has not been extended. My sister lives in Celbridge, not a huge distance from this city, and on her road alone ten houses still do not have access to a gas supply. It is a major issue for her.
All of the points I want to make about active retirement groups are complimentary. I wish to be associated with the compliments expressed. I read that Active Retirement Ireland received a once-off grant from Pobal. What other funding does the organisation receive? I know that it is run solely by volunteers. Does it have links with other communities across the city or country through partnership groups or community development projects? Do other such groups or projects participate in any of its activities? I do not know whether there are many community development projects throughout the country, but there are many in Dublin.
Active retirement groups have to rent halls for their activities. Do the representatives find this a major problem? The cost of renting halls, even in these recessionary times, is often raised with me as an issue. Instead of decreasing rents have increased. People are being charged a higher rental price to meet additional fuel and other such charges. I would like to hear the opinion of one of the representatives on this point.
I have nothing further to add, but I might speak again if other points come to mind when others contribute. We could all learn a great deal from active retirement groups and should all take a leaf out of their book. Given that many people are not working who are not in the active retirement group age bracket, there is a great deal that could be done through other activities and groups such as this. I compliment all of its representatives. A lady here said she met me during my tenure as Lord Mayor. I was very conscious of the role played by volunteers and organised to have a volunteer certificate given to people involved in communities. I do not believe people would be able to survive in our communities without the number of volunteers who give of their time. Sadly, now that times are changing, fewer want to volunteer when it seems more should want to do so. That is an issue we need to examine also.
I warmly welcome all of the representatives and thank them for their presentation. I repeat that I am disappointed that not a single member of the committee on the Government side has turned up to meet the representatives, listen to their presentation and express a view on the issues raised. It is a snub to this national organisation which I am sure has not gone unnoticed.
I warmly congratulate the representatives on the work of Active Retirement Ireland throughout the country. I am very aware of the organisation within my constitutency in which there is number of very active groups. I admire its "can do" attitude. More mature members of society are getting up and doing it for themselves, which is what it is all about. They make a fantastic contribution to the quality of life of older citizens. That independent approach to life — being active and involved, mentally and physically — is critically important to people's well-being. That attitude is commendable.
The specific issue about which the representatives have come to talk to us is a carbon tax and the lack of a scheme to lessen the impact on the incomes of those at risk of fuel poverty. It is extremely disappointing that a carbon tax has been introduced to a number of fuels, yet no steps have been taken by the Government to introduce a scheme to offset the cost. It is important that we remind Government members and Ministers about the promises made when the carbon tax was announced initially in the budget last December. At the time, when the Minister for Finance announced his budget proposals and talked about the need for a carbon tax, there was cross-party support for that approach with a view to changing people's habits and the fuels they used, but the concern was that if a carbon levy was introduced, it would impact negatively on people with low and fixed incomes, in particular, and pensioners specifically. The Minister said a vouched fuel allowance scheme would be developed to offset the increases for low income families dependent on such fuels. He gave an undertaking that on the introduction of the carbon levy there would be a vouched scheme, on which he went into detail, to offset the cost, but since last December it seems no action has been taken to progress that commitment. We know when questioned by the Opposition in the Dáil, the previous Minister, Deputy Hanafin, gave a commitment that a vouched scheme would be put in place prior to the introduction of a carbon levy, but, again, that promised was welshed on.
I express serious concern about the fact that the Government has not followed through on the undertakings given by two Ministers. Often at this time of year it can be particularly cold and people might still need to heat their homes, but we are lucky the weather has been good recently. I hope this will continues to be the case during the summer months. It is reprehensible that the commitments given have not been adhered to. It is critically important that a new scheme is put in place before the end of the summer. This is a perfectly reasonable demand to make. The proposal the representatives made, that an additional €4 per week be provided for those in receipt of fuel allowance, is reasonable, of that there is no question.
I hope that at the end of this meeting we will take a decision on this issue. I formally propose that the transcript of the meeting be sent to the Minister for Social Protection, with a strong recommendation from the committee that the commitment to introduce a vouched scheme is honoured in full and that the new scheme be in place by the autumn to reflect the recommendation made by Active Retirement Ireland. Obviously, the whole question of the cost of home heating oil is a huge one for older people in particular. We know that in the past year alone the cost of home heating oil has increased by 40% and the effect of the carbon levy on home heating oil will be an increase of almost 9%. This will have a huge impact on people who are dependent on home heating oil, particularly those in rural Ireland. We know the cost of gas has been going in the right direction but there has been a recent announcement in regard to an increase. While gas prices have been improving somewhat, the situation in regard to home heating oil in particular has meant a huge financial burden on people on low incomes and the levy increases its price by approximately 9%.
This needs to be brought into the household benefits package as well as the additional subsidy that should be provided. I strongly endorse the recommendations made by Active Retirement Ireland. I make a formal proposal that we call on the Minister to have this new scheme in place before the autumn.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I welcome the delegation and apologise for being late. I am a great admirer of Active Retirement Ireland and the fact that it is such a strong lobby group, which was very evident at the time the medical cards were taken from older people. As welfare rates have been reduced, the concern is that people will suffer from the cold. It is a very good proposal that home heating oil be added to the categories to be covered in the household benefits package. The majority of people use kerosene to heat their homes and I propose that we adopt this measure along with the €4 per week extra allowance for the fuel scheme. I completely endorse what Active Retirement Ireland proposes and thank it for its proposal.
Have Active Retirement Ireland's members had conversations with the delegation on the impact of the ban on turf cutting? Many people depend on turf to heat their homes, particularly in rural Ireland and particularly those in the lower socio-economic bracket.
Does Active Retirement Ireland have an opinion on the fair deal nursing home programme? Although it is not relevant to what we are discussing, many of the public facilities are being closed down. I feel strongly about people being put out of their nursing homes, some having lived there for up to 15 years, as has happened in my local town. Has Active Retirement Ireland received representations or is it lobbying on behalf of older people in public nursing homes?
I welcome the delegation. I have a strong interest in the work of Active Retirement Ireland. In my constituency, I am a member of the board of the former Tallaght Welfare Society, now Trust Us, which is very much within the remit of Active Retirement Ireland. We had an opportunity in this regard last week when Deputy Pat Carey, the Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs, came to Tallaght and met a number of people in the Active Retirement Ireland group. I am very happy to express my support for what it is doing. With regard to the business mentioned by Deputy Shortall, we will certainly do that and send the proposal to the Minister.
Ms Kavanagh is welcome to deal with those questions and then sum up.
Ms Maureen Kavanagh
I will pass the question of turf cutting to Ms Mary Daly, who is from the midlands. Deputy Catherine Byrne asked about our funding. Active Retirement Ireland is funded from a core grant from the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs. It is three-year funding which finishes this year and, obviously, like other groups, we are concerned that this funding mechanism is being reviewed. We hope it will be continued because it is the only funding mechanism whereby national organisations apply for core funding for staff.
We get a grant from the HSE on a yearly basis which allows us to support the voluntary development officers we have in each region, whose job is to get out there, keep our active retirement associations, or ARAs, going and keep people supported. Unfortunately, as with everything else, that is down 8% this year. The other part is our membership fees, which make up over one third of our income. It is fantastic that the membership see they can support their own organisation. We are also in receipt of a grant from Atlantic Philanthropies for capacity building. This is a 30-month grant which allows us to get new premises. If members could see what we have moved from, they would know how horrendous it was. In short, our core funding comes from those areas.
We got a grant from Pobal to run training on financial templates in our regional areas to ensure our regional committees and Active Retirement Ireland are abiding by the charities legislation and that we are all using the same reporting templates to satisfy that legislation. This is to ensure greater transparency and openness across our regions given that we have public grants and membership fees and we are accountable for every penny that comes in. We have an excellent committee and an excellent treasurer in Ms Nancy Tynan.
As to whether we have links to partnerships, yes we have. The Go For Life programme, which 70% of the ARAs now apply for, is a grant that operates through the sports partnerships in the counties, thereby giving the ARAs a small grant to run physical activities. We have links to the community development programmes, which, in many areas, provide space for our active retirement groups to meet, and it is similar with family resource centres. These groups have to pay and, unfortunately, some ARAs are paying up to €5,000 a year in rent for community spaces and parish centres. It is of grave concern to our members as they struggle to keep their hours going that much of their income and funds has to go into renting community spaces.
Mr. Peter Kavanagh
On the point raised by Deputy Catherine Byrne, we found that while between 20% and 30% of our ARAs pay what we term medium to high rent per annum, anecdotally, many other groups say that while they have the facility for free, they simply have to pay for the heating. This becomes incredibly relevant when we talk about a subject such as that being discussed today, because these people are now bearing the brunt of the carbon tax, not only at home but when they go about their businesses as members of Active Retirement Ireland. They are now shouldering an increased cost of heating premises throughout the country.
Ms Mary Daly
I am delighted the issue of turbary rights was raised by Senator McFadden. The majority of older people lost their turbary rights, so they have to buy a plot and pay somebody to dig the turf. I live in the Multyfarnham area and know that a person in the area was recently refused permission to cut turf above a certain tonnage, so it has an effect.
The carbon tax will be seen as an extra tax on older people. I live in the country. To get a taxi to Mullingar is €25 each way, and this will obviously increase if the carbon tax increases. To see the doctor is €60 and the majority of older people do not have a medical card. To come to our meetings, they have to get someone to drive them. We raised funds to do up our parish hall because, otherwise, we would not have had a place to meet. As we could not rely on having the heat on a timer, we said we would pay for the oil so we could run our functions, and that is paid to the parish priest.
Transport is a major problem. Regardless of where one wishes to travel, for example, a visit to a chiropodist or anyone else, it requires money up-front. As the committee is aware, older people are dignified and it is a pity they are being targeted in this way.
Loughloe House and St. Mary's care centre, Mullingar are places I know well. St. Mary's received the go-ahead from HIQA this week, resulting in a great sigh of relief because it is essential for older people in the area to have such places in which to spend their last days. It is a shame that care of the elderly has gone into the private sector. It is now a profit-making organisation. That is all I have to say.
Ms Maureen Kavanagh
Our members have given a rather mixed reaction to the fair deal. However, the one generic reaction is that there is not enough information about what the fair deal means to each individual at the end of the day. The financial assessment is complicated and people question what they will get. Many of our members find that the costings of the fair deal were done on a bed and breakfast basis and the cost of necessary extra supports have not been added in. The question still hangs over us of whether someone in a private nursing home must still go to clinics to receive chiropody, continence assessment and so forth and, if this is the case, how does one get there. A nurse is supposed to put a person a car and bring him or her down. Many issues arise in respect of the fair deal about which people remain concerned.
To sum up, we are pleased that the committee will take up Deputy Róisín Shortall's recommendation to bring the issues and especially our recommendations to the Ministers. We welcome this development and that something is coming forward by way of some support for older people to address fuel poverty.
We are pleased to do that. I thank the delegation for attending this morning. I apologise for the delays because of Dáil business. The delegation is especially welcome and we have been very interested in what it has said. In light of what was stated earlier, I propose that we send a transcript of the proceedings this morning to the Minister along with the recommendations made by the delegation in its presentation.
Is the following motion agreed?
That the Joint Committee on Social Protection calls on the Government to honour its promise to introduce a voucher fuel allowance scheme to off-set the carbon levy on home heating fuels and that this scheme be put in place before the autumn of this year.
Agreed. We will keep the delegation informed and it should feel free to get back to us at any point. Again, I thank the delegation and colleagues for their attendance.