Is onóir mór dom fáilte a chur roimh mo shean cara Liam Uasal Ó Niallais, príomh oifigeach feidhmiúchán InterTradeIreland, agus an tUasal Aidan Gough, stiúrthóir straitéigeach agus polasaí an fhorais céanna. Táimid lán sásta go bhfuil sibh anseo agus táimid ag súil le óráid a fháil uathu. It is a great pleasure for me to welcome my long-time friend, Mr. Liam Nellis, chief executive officer of InterTradeIreland, with his colleague, Mr. Aidan Gough, strategy and policy director, InterTradeIreland. We are honoured to have them before the committee. We salute them on the work they have achieved over the years and look forward to their collaboration and communication with the joint committee. I call on Mr. Nellis to address the joint committee.
All-Island Economic Development: Discussion with InterTradeIreland.
Mr. Liam Nellis
I thank the Chairman and other committee members for this opportunity to make a presentation. First, I pass on apologies from our chairman, Mr. David Duggan, who was invited to attend this meeting. He was to have come, but the dates changed and unfortunately he could not make today's meeting, although he would like to have been here.
It is a great opportunity for us to make this presentation to the joint committee. It is important that we keep the profile of InterTradeIreland high in the corridors of power, North and South. As we move through these difficult financial times, it is even more important that we keep our message up there so that when considerations are made about continued support, we are to the forefront of people's minds.
The topics I am covering today are basically around the work of InterTradeIreland. The joint committee received a paper so I do not intend to go through it in detail. I hope to pick out some of the highlights and then leave more time for us to answer questions from members of the committee.
Members of this committee do not need to be advised of our legislative agreement and the genesis of InterTradeIreland. Suffice to say that we were born out of the Good Friday Agreement and since then we have striven to prove that we are not just a creature of statute and politics, but very relevant in the business community. We are part of the fabric of economic development on the island and have proved that over the years.
Our remit within the legislation was wide, covering a number of areas. We have examined the legislation and have interpreted it to put it into a strategic context through several corporate plans in recent years. We exercise the functions set out in that legislation, which are quite wide. We get involved in all sorts of issues from North-South collaborative research and development through to opening up the equity venture capital sources across the island. We are heavily involved in science technology and innovation, which is in the middle of the strategies of both jurisdictions, including the smart economy. We are also involved in training and skills development, including a number of graduate programmes which are extremely important. We work in the broad area of competitiveness. Another major issue is public procurement in which we have done a lot of work. There is a market of about €14 billion in public procurement between both jurisdictions. Much of that goes off the island. Our role in this area is to try to ensure that more Southern companies have an opportunity to pitch into the Northern procurement market and vice versa. There has been a lot of success in that regard.
In our current corporate plan, which finishes next year, we have stated two clear goals, to generate business value by enhancing company competitiveness and capability and to improve the overall competitive environment on the island for mutual benefit. There are two levels therefore. At company level, it is to help individual companies to generate greater business value through operating in the other jurisdiction. At the higher national economy level, it is aimed at improving the overall environment through providing support and advice, including research.
An independent performance review by InterTradeIreland carried out a year or two ago, concluded that InterTradeIreland has:
...succeeded in building a small, resourceful organisation from scratch in a very sensitive, intricate environment. They seem to have managed that complex external government structure well.
From the start we have always tried to build our programmes and initiatives from a clear evidence base. We carry out a lot of empirical research within our policy unit, which is headed by Mr. Aidan Gough. Recent examples of that include a mapping of all research and technological development centres on the island of Ireland and an analysis of the polymer and plastics industry. We regularly publish a simple guide to cross-Border business, and the recent publication landed in the office yesterday. We have done a report on spatial strategies on the island of Ireland, trying to get the two jurisdictions to co-operate more closely on developing a coherent spatial strategy across the island. To show that we are keeping abreast and topical, one of the most recent studies looks at the business value coming through from the clean and green economy, and environmental goods and services.
Before getting into the detail of the programmes, I want to speak about the support infrastructure. As the committee will be aware, it is a complex environment. I have worked for over 35 years in the Government and public sector, mainly in Northern Ireland, and I know how hard it is to satisfy the corporate governance requirement at the centre of one jurisdiction. When one involves two different jurisdictions, that increases the complexity significantly and it is a very complex web with which we work every day between the agencies, Departments and representative bodies. In the early days, as the new kids on the block, we were viewed with a little surprise, even suspicion, as to who we were. There were territorial issues. We have gone way beyond all of that. This committee will be happy that I can report that our relationships with all of the main agencies on the island, North and South, have improved immensely and there is a healthy working relationship at all levels, from the policy level more recently and directly down to the practical level.
For example, a strategic review was carried out by our new board, which came in approximately 18 months ago and wanted, like all new boards, to examine the organisation to see whether it was fit for purpose, etc. One of the issues we identified and which we had to get better at was to remove this perception that somehow we were duplicating what others were doing and that we really were embedded. We have now arranged and agreed that twice a year the very top of the organisations — I refer to Secretary General, Permanent Secretary, chairs and chief executives of Invest Northern Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and InterTradeIreland — come together in a strategic and practical way to ensure that the remit we have been given is not just being paid lip-service and that we co-operate actively on that.
The next meeting, on 13 November, is coming up soon. That is an important development for us because, as we enter our fourth corporate plan soon, we need to ensure that we align our corporate thinking with the corporate thinking of each jurisdiction and that there is no room for the allegation that we are ploughing our own furrow. We need to embed what we are doing along with the other mainstream agencies while at the same time recognising that we have a unique commitment to ensure that these things happen on an all-island basis.
Our relationships are very good. We work closely with Enterprise Ireland. We have a strong relationship with Forfás and agencies in the North, including Invest Northern Ireland, IBEC-CBI Joint Business Council, which was mentioned, the chambers of commerce, local county enterprise boards and their Northern equivalents. In the Southern system, we have also got the recognition. I have sat for several years as an adviser on the National Competitiveness Council, and we are grateful to have that voice on that important strategic body. Mr. Aidan Gough will be involved with the innovation task force, specifically on North-South issues, and that is also extremely helpful. We find we are being recognised as an important voice in the area of economic development on the island.
Regarding the outcomes, I mentioned many of the areas in which we operate. InterTradeIreland is a small organisation in the grand scheme of things. We have a staff of 42 based in one location in Newry and a budget of approximately €12 million a year. The contribution from the Irish Government for the cross-Border bodies generally probably comes to roughly 0.5% of the overall public budget. In the grand scheme of things, the investment in the cross-Border bodies, and in InterTradeIreland, in particular, is getting more than the return one would expect.
Our first few years, from 2000 to 2001, were more or less an establishment phase — getting people in, getting the building and developing programmes. We have been working through our programmes since early 2003 in a concentrated way. Since that time we have engaged with more than 15,000 companies right across the island, providing advice, information, services, first-stop-shop advice, etc. More than 1,550 companies, drawn from every city and county on the island of Ireland, have participated directly on InterTradelreland programmes and have actively got benefit from what we do and gained more than merely an answer through a letter or a telephone call. Of those 1,550 companies, 277 — probably more now — have become first-time exporters. We find that a Northern company dipping its toe in the Southern market or vice versa gives confidence when they look to wider export markets. It is important in that they are able for the first time to work in a different currency, for example, or a different business ethos in certain areas.
Also, in terms of the smart economy and innovation, almost 250 have become first-time innovators. It is the first time they have engaged with a third level institution in terms of building their product basis, improving their processes and taking cost out of the business and this is also extremely important.
Although we are not a job creation agency and we do not purport to be directly a job creation agency, we have a beneficial side-effect in that arena and we are building targets into our new corporate plan in that regard. We can point to more than 800 jobs having been created during that time. These jobs are created from, for example, our Acumen programme where a company takes on someone for a year to build its business in the other jurisdiction. The retention rate in that programme is extremely high and these people are retained long after the year.
In our graduate programmes, for example, the FUSION programme, the retention rate is also extremely high and we find that of those who leave after the time, most of them have gone to do a gap year or have gone to take up other employment. Very few of these graduates are laid off after the period of the project.
The total added value from InterTradelreland's programmes already can be counted at more than €260 million, with almost €200 million more coming from ongoing programmes which are currently in train. Therefore, well over £400 million of added value is coming through.
On our relevance in the current time, as recently as April and May of this year we felt in the current economic climate to get out there around the country and ensure we were seen as relevant and proactive. We had a road show of six events, from Cork to Waterford, Galway, Letterkenny, Enniskillen and Ballymena. We had anticipated we would get up to 80 companies, or a maximum of 100 companies, at each event. The lowest we got was 120 and at several road shows we had 160 companies coming along. That built a tremendous pipeline for the work that we are doing.
At this stage we have gone from a position where we were set up, had a development phase and there was a controlled growth. We have now got to the point where we have the capacity to absorb and deliver the budget that we are given and more, for obvious reasons, like any other public sector body, we are in the spotlight of looking for efficiency savings, and we accept that absolutely. At this time we are more relevant to business than ever. We find that increasing numbers of companies want to get involved. We can offer them new markets, access to sources of finance and help with product development, etc. I stress that we see it as critically important that a sustainable level of investment is retained in InterTradeIreland.
The independent review I mentioned highlighted several outcomes of our work. It stated we have carved a distinct space in the all-island trade and development landscape, and probably uniquely in the world, we are the only body set up and funded by two Governments to development trade and business between two separate jurisdictions.
Since InterTradeIreland was established in 2000, the levels of cross-Border trade, co-operation and economic contacts, links and networks in the governmental, official, business and academic spheres that have developed are way ahead of anything that existed heretofore. Overall, we can argue that InterTradeIreland, which initially was an experiment, has proven itself extremely well, has evolved into being the primary advocate of competitiveness and is providing influence at a level that is equivalent to or better than the investment.
As stated, our new board recently undertook a strategic review. We know we cannot stand still and we have a number of major programmes which are obtaining a tremendous return. At the last count, we estimate that we are obtaining a six to one return in respect of every pound or euro spent, which is significant. Under our new strategic plan, we are seeking a return of eight to one.
One of the areas we are considering in respect of further development in the immediate future is that of the public procurement market. The figure I provided earlier in this regard was €14 billion but it is actually €19 billion. We are of the view that we can obtain a great deal more value for companies in this regard. We will increase our activity in the business venture capital area. We will provide opportunities and resources for companies, North and South, to continue to become involved in collaborate research and development activities that are critical to the smart economy. In addition, we are focusing closely on the new opportunities coming forward in respect of renewable technologies, environmental goods and services etc. We see these as critical. Overall, we have given a good account of our stewardship in recent years. We thank the committee, particularly the Chairman, for the opportunity to make a presentation. We will be happy to take questions from members.
I thank Mr. Nellis. Does Mr. Gough wish to contribute?
Mr. Aidan Gough
No.
That is fine. I will open the discussion to members.
I welcome the representatives from InterTradeIreland. It is important that they are here to sell their message to members. Some people will be more familiar than others with the activities in which InterTradeIreland is involved. I welcome the fact that there is some media interest in this matter. The All-Ireland Economic Forum was a necessary initiative and InterTradeIreland was represented on it. Traditionally, the all-Ireland roadshows usually stop somewhere between Galway and Dublin — they do not visit Letterkenny. I must declare an interest in that I do not live next to or near that part of the world. It was important that InterTradeIreland visited Letterkenny because it is vital to recognise that there are places to be found west and even north of Derry.
Project Kelvin is extremely important for businesses in the north west. This project is probably under-rated by the average citizen but I hope it will be rolled out to play the role we know it can play. Project Kelvin involves a major investment on a cross-Border basis and links us to America.
Are our guests of the view that there are more opportunities for development in the Border business parks, namely, those in Derry-Muff, Derry-Killea, Derry-Bridgend and Derry-Newtowncunningham? Do they accept that major work is being done at college level, particularly between Derry and Letterkenny?
InterTradeIreland has carried out a great deal of research in respect of what should be happening for businesses. Is there a particular area in which we should pursue activity? Activity in the north west traditionally revolved around textiles. This then moved to pharmaceuticals and call centres. Is there a particular gap in the market which we would be ideally placed to fill? How well is InterTradeIreland linked to the Departments of Education and Science and its counterpart in Northern Ireland in the context of bringing to their attention findings it makes in respect of where trade should be targeted? Does it have a strong level of interaction with the two Departments? This is particularly relevant if there is a need for a policy shift within the area of education regarding how children should be taught in order that the creative, imaginative or analytical people required as either employers or employees might be delivered. How good are the links between trade and education at present?
How will trade be hampered or enhanced on foot of the fact that two currencies remain in place? At our previous meeting I referred to the abuse of the currency exchange rate on Translink's website. I do not know whether by doing so I put a curse on the Enterprise train because the latter no longer runs as it previously did in the aftermath of the collapse of the bridge at Malahide Estuary. As stated on the previous occasion, people were being exploited on foot of the 69 cent exchange rate. The issue of the currency exchange rate is important in the context of trade, particularly when companies such as Translink are seeking to use and abuse that rate.
Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP, MLA
I thank the representatives from InterTradeIreland for their presentation. I have a high regard for their organisation and have always found it exciting, interesting and uplifting to hear from its representatives. I accept that there might be a little more to be done but there is a sense from their presentation that much of the work has been done and that InterTradeIreland has almost achieved its dream. Will our guests indicate if all the work has been done? Will they indicate if IDA Ireland and Invest Northern Ireland are working in sync? If all the work has not been done, will they outline the number of major items of work that remain outstanding?
I am fully aware that our guests must steer clear of politics. However, I am deeply concerned, listening to the DUP in particular and Unionists in general, that there is a certain resistance to cross-Border activity. How much restraint or inhibition exists in this regard? When devolution was suspended, during the most recent period of direct rule many cross-Border organisations were operating on a care and maintenance basis rather than on a proactive development basis. While paying due respect to their need to adopt a politically sensitive approach, will our guests indicate if they are receiving the political support they require?
I also welcome Mr. Nellis and Mr. Gough and I thank them for their presentation. Senator Keaveney indicated that some people are less familiar than others with the activities of InterTradeIreland. I must confess that I am one of those who is less familiar with its activities. I am, therefore, grateful to Mr. Nellis for outlining some of the work it does. Some extremely impressive-sounding programmes have been initiated since he was appointed CEO in 2000.
I wish to inquire with regard to the nature of the programmes that are ongoing to obtain a sense of how these operate in practice. Mr. Nellis estimates that over nine years more than 800 jobs have been created by the 1,500 companies which participated directly in programmes and that this resulted in a total added business value of more than €260 million. I am not sure how the latter figure was arrived at. I accept Mr. Nellis did not want to go into a great level of detail during his presentation but I would like him to expand somewhat on this matter. I am familiar with IDA Ireland's mentoring programme, under which small businesses benefit from the experience of seasoned entrepreneurs who advise them directly. Is that the sort of engagement to which Mr. Nellis referred in respect of small enterprises?
Mr. Nellis stated that InterTradeIreland is a small organisation which employs 42 people, which operates from a single base in Newry and has a total annual budget of €12 million. It sounds less small to me, particularly in light of the fact that NAMA is being debated in the Seanad today. The plan in respect of NAMA is to recruit between 30 and 35 staff initially and to recruit a further 40 in 2010. The contrast is marked as that is a large number of staff, but the organisation runs a range of programmes. I would be grateful for more information on how the schemes and programmes work in practice.
I welcome the delegation. I echo the sentiments expressed by Senator Keaveney regarding Project Kelvin. I am from County Monaghan and that project will significantly benefit the northern part of the county. A reformed chamber of commerce in Monaghan is actively pursuing investment to boost this Border town and it is buoyed up by the imminent arrival of Project Kelvin.
Mr. Nellis referred to developing trade relationships. It has never been as important to develop and cement such relationships. I share a constituency with Deputy Crawford and it was always self-sufficient. Large multinationals such as Dell and Intel were never attracted to our county. People engaged in furniture crafts, agriculture and food production but we need to examine our position as a county in the context of the North-South dynamic. Previously the excuse was that the road network was terrible, but it is excellent now and we are ideally located. Monaghan is one hour from Dublin and Belfast and its major towns are bypassed. We have worked on that and infrastructure is no longer a problem. Many indigenous companies in the constituency are working hard to turn out high quality food products but they need to focus more on North-South trade. Lough Egish food park where I come from is ripe for development and it is worthy of consideration for food production into the future.
I am interested in procurement. Much comment is made about costs and value for money and at a time when we are trying to keep people in work and to ensure projects are provided, procurement is making life difficult. Will Mr. Nellis elaborate on the work InterTradeIreland is doing in this area? Contracts which ensure local people work in their locality and spend money in the local economy are hugely important.
I apologise on behalf of Mr. Pat Doherty, MP, MLA, who is attending the funeral of Redmond O'Neill, political adviser to Ken Livingstone. He was an important person in the peace process as he helped our party, in particular, during those difficult years and I offer my sympathies and those of the party to the family of Mr. O'Neill.
I welcome the representatives of InterTradeIreland, an organisation that is doing fantastic work. I have been kept abreast of its work by a number of board members from County Donegal. They are excited about a number of the projects undertaken by the organisation, particularly the Acumen and FUSION projects. These excellent cutting edge ideas need to be replicated in a bigger way. Everybody is seeking value for money and a sixfold return is nice. I am reassured that the board members are not willing to sit on their hands and that they want to push the boat out with the new programme to achieve an eightfold return. The organisation's work is deeply encouraging in the context of the all-Ireland economy.
I refer to the elephant in the room, the barriers to cross-Border trade and developing an all-Ireland economy. According to the document that was circulated, €475 million and 600 jobs have been added over the past six years but, at the same time, total cross-Border trade in Ireland is less than would be expected between other border economies in Europe. What are the barriers and is there anything the committee or the board of InterTradeIreland can do to remove them?
There are three main barriers. The first is the different labour laws in both jurisdictions, which hinder companies that want to operate on both sides of the Border. The second is the widening of differences in the taxation systems, North and South. For example, the VAT rate was reduced in the North last December while, at the same time, it was increased by 0.5% here. The final issue is the currency and the need for Ireland to have a single currency, the euro. As an island nation, we are too small to have two different economies. While co-operation has increased between Invest Northern Ireland and IDA Ireland, which is welcome, these bodies still compete on the international market for foreign direct investment, and InterTradeIreland is in the middle. They try to outbid each other and it makes no sense that a company which may be willing to locate in Letterkenny or Buncrana can be enticed across the Border to Derry because Invest Northern Ireland is prepared to outbid IDA Ireland .
Cross-Border trade is a prominent issue. It is reported that the Exchequer is losing €800 million annually as southern shoppers travel across the Border. There is a great deal of anger about procurement and contracts that have been awarded to companies in the North and many political representatives have raised this. In my constituency of Donegal South West, a HSE project was awarded to a company in Fermanagh and the argument was made that it should have been awarded to a company in Donegal or Sligo. Ballyshannon and Fermanagh are budded to each other but there is a mindset that everything needs to stay in the South.
One of the reasons the unemployment rate is approximately 30% in County Donegal is the lack of expansion in cross-Border trade and the barriers in place. This needs to work both ways. A strong Derry, Strabane or Enniskillen will complement a strong Ballyshannon, Bundoran, Letterkenny, Killybegs or Gweedore and, therefore, the region needs to grow. The Governments are not focused on labour laws and tax harmonisation while the currency issue means shops and companies in the North are benefiting because people are travelling in that direction. That trend will reverse in a number of years but the problem is companies are on an unstable footing in the context of cross-Border trade.
I welcome our colleagues from InterTradeIreland. I am impressed by the information they have provided but I am not as au fait with it as Senator Keaveney. Will Mr. Nellis highlight the activities in which the organisation is engaged in the other Border counties? There has been a deficit of investment in these counties in recent years and during the Troubles we could not get anybody to invest in the area and had to depend on local investors who were prepared to create jobs.
As someone with a farming and food industry background, I wonder has InterTradeIreland done any research into how to create more co-operation and development in the food industry. As Deputy Conlon said, the food industry is extremely important, not just in the Lough Egish food centre, but across the county, which has some of the biggest food producers. Monaghan has also led the way, as far as cross-Border investment is concerned, in that 80% of the product of the town of Monaghan creamery is produced in Northern Ireland and only 20% in Monaghan. Lakeland Dairies is also involved in cross-Border trade, as are Goodman, Kerry Co-Op and others. This activity was taking place even before the Good Friday Agreement. There has always been deep involvement in the food industry.
As an island, we are a major exporter of food, but the prices being received for our produce currently need improvement and research. Is there a role for InterTradeIreland in that regard? Can it do anything to improve the price of the end product to maintain and create jobs for the sector and has it identified further trade possibilities for both the North and South recently? Can we have some indication of what is happening in that regard?
It has been stated that InterTradeIreland has created 800 jobs. In what areas of the country were those jobs created? I was delighted to hear there had been a number of successful roadshows, but none of those was held in the Cavan-Monaghan area. Would InterTradeIreland consider having a roadshow there to try to boost interest there? Significant work has been done at community level, for example, by Fr. Seán Nolan in the parish of Truagh, who has co-operated with organisations north of the Border and done much work with young people. However, such co-operation does not seem to have crossed over into the industrial sector.
The issue of anomalies has been raised. One of the most significant anomalies is that if we export to Northern Ireland, that is not treated as an export by Forfás or IDA Ireland. However, if a Northern Ireland industry gets involved with an industry in the South, that is treated in the same way as an American industry or any other industry. This is a strange situation and I cannot understand it.
I welcome the delegation from InterTradeIreland. In the South, we see the North as the industrial arm of Ireland and the South as the agricultural arm, but there has been some change in this recently. Competition is important, but we are not as competitive as we should be in the South. The minimum wage in the South is approximately €9 an hour and the sterling wage is approximately £5.30. Therefore, the North has many advantages over the South and should maximise these advantages at this time. We see competitiveness as important and wage levels are part of that.
Research and development have been mentioned. What co-operation does InterTradeIreland get from southern agencies like Teagasc, which deals with agriculture and has a significant research and development budget, IDA Ireland, which is also involved in research, and Enterprise Ireland which looks after our domestic indigenous area? What co-operation exists? Research and development should be shared and pooled among both parts of this island.
In recent days the National Asset Management Agency Bill has been making progress through the Dáil and when enacted will be of significant advantage to the economy. Some 30% of the NAMA funds relate to areas outside of Ireland and 6% is related to the North. Once we have NAMA up and running, it will act as a stimulus to the economy and further growth and expansion, and will help get us out of the difficulties we are in as a result of what happened in the construction industry.
We in the South have become very dependent on the food industry, which, as InterTradeIreland is aware, is being challenged by areas producing food cheaply, such as South America and the Far East. The many imports from these countries have changed the structure of our industry, for example, the beef industry and dairy produce from New Zealand arriving in the European market. This has upset the structure of agriculture and our food industry and we no longer have the added-value products we had in the past. We must examine this situation and consider our involvement.
We are also getting a hammering on the retail front. I have been involved in the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment which has visited the North to see what is happening in the retail area there with major retail stores. Many more people are travelling across the Border to the North because prices are cheaper and because of the sterling advantage. This area will be even more active over the Christmas period. I do not know how we can address the issue which creates a problem for us in the grocery and retail area for jobs and turnover for the economy. There is little future in talking about Britain and Northern Ireland joining the euro currency, but the sterling difference is having an effect and, much as it helps the Northern economy, will continue to damage our economy.
I am amazed therefore that InterTradeIreland has not been able to capitalise more on the value of sterling because, with sterling low, prices are very competitive. I understand also that costs in the UK are between 15% and 20% less than they are in Ireland. There are fewer imports coming into the South from the UK because of the cost factor, although the UK is more competitive than Holland, which was the greater challenger in the past in this area. What is InterTradeIreland's opinion on competitiveness and finance and what direction does it see for the industry in the future?
I thank Mr. Nellis for his presentation. I agree with much of what has been said. Like Senator Bacik, I am not very familiar with InterTradeIreland. I would like to refer to some of the difficulties being faced by people in my constituency of Sligo-North Leitrim, whether in the retail or construction area. Senator Doherty was correct that construction workers and builders in our areas are trying to compete with builders from Northern Ireland who can tender for public work contracts. Irish builders must compete against a minimum wage that is lower than the minimum wage here. In the case of qualified people such as carpenters, the minimum wage in the North might be €14 compared to €20 here. Builders here must compete through an open tender forum for these jobs, but they are at a major disadvantage and, unfortunately, are losing many Government contracts. Much Government work here is being done by Northern builders and this is a cause of concern and annoyance. It is not the function of InterTradeIreland to deal with that, but it is important to point out the difficulty.
With regard to the retail area, there is no question but that with a weakened sterling, people are travelling North in large numbers to shop. I was listening to the local radio, Ocean FM, last month and heard a request being played for people stuck in traffic for over an hour near Enniskillen. This cross-Border shopping does not augur well for our part of the world. Has InterTradeIreland any function in this area or can anything be done to solve the problem? Are there any North-South business networks in Sligo and has InterTradeIreland been working in the area? Are people in the area of Sligo-Leitrim involved in what InterTradeIreland is trying to do? I ask the delegation to elaborate.
I thank Deputy Scanlon and the other members for their contributions. There are many questions and if written replies are needed we will be delighted to receive them in due course.
Mr. Liam Nellis
I will deal with the questions in order and Mr. Gough will elaborate on some of the issues.
Senator Keaveney raised the issue of Project Kelvin which we support. I planned to meet the people involved in the project tomorrow morning but I must attend the funeral of a close friend tomorrow. I will, however, meet them next week. I have been involved in some talks. The Newry-Dundalk area pushed hard to have Project Kelvin linked into that area as initially it was not planned to have it linked in. I understand there is now a linkage. I wish to ensure that the island of Ireland is best connected for the modern age and it is vital to have fast connectivity.
Senator Keaveney asked about our involvement in some of the areas in the north west. We have been involved with all areas on the island. Most of our projects are not regionally based. We are an all-island body and we do not target cross-Border local networks although we support broader collaborative networks in all regions. We have worked closely in the north west on a number of projects. I remember being involved in organising a major entrepreneurship conference with Letterkenny and Derry chambers of commerce a year or two ago and it was attended by some of the top businesspeople on the island of Ireland. We have significant projects in Derry-Donegal, Cavan-Monaghan and Newry-Louth. We have been focusing on the area of collective health with regard to the north-west area. This involves bringing together businesses, academics and clinicians, and great work is being carried out. The Senator also asked about innovation in North-South projects. Ireland has become a popular destination over the years in the areas of pharmaceutical, life sciences and ICT. I am not alone in thinking that one of the significant issues of benefit to both North and South is the area of renewables, particularly wind and wave energy. These are rapidly becoming very important. The Chinese have made an absolute commitment to clean green technology. It is easier to do so in China because one person takes the decision. However, the island of Ireland should take on this commitment. I attended an event at Queen's University at which Eoin O'Driscoll stated that he comes from the western seaboard which has 5% of the wind of Europe and only 0.5% of the population on the island of Ireland, and he sees the significant opportunity there. There needs to be more concentrated collaboration in the area of wind and wave power.
Not just hot air.
Mr. Aidan Gough
On the issue of peripherality and the Border counties, including the north west, it is our firm belief that closer co-operation in the development of an all-island approach to industrial development policy puts the Border areas at the centre of an island economy rather than at the periphery. We have strong representation across our full suite of programmes, of companies involved in those programmes and we can supply that information to the committee. Six months ago we held a bridging the Border event for businesses in the Cavan Crystal Hotel which was attended by approximately 180 businesses. We have been running the bridging the Border series of events for the past three years across the Border counties. Yesterday we held one such event in Dublin, attended by 180 companies.
Mr. Liam Nellis
That is a great example of close collaboration. Our partners are Enterprise Ireland and Invest Northern Ireland. Senator Keaveney asked about collaboration in the area of education and skills. Education is not our main brief. Where appropriate we bring whatever influence we have to bear. A year or two ago we took the initiative. It was noted that no skills audit had ever been organised on an all-island basis. Particularly at a time of high inward migration people complained that there was no knowledge of where the skills resided. We commenced an all-island skills audit which was then taken over by FÁS and the Northern Ireland Department for Employment and Learning, DEL. We become involved in many such areas but I refer to the point about the size of the organisation. A total of 42 people is a very small number to take on the whole of the island of Ireland. Unlike many organisations which are concerned with either policy or implementation, we do both. We are required to do research and implementation. I assure the committee the people in Newry are fairly stretched in terms of resources because of the level of demand for the programmes we put in place.
Mr. Aidan Gough
Senator Keaveney also asked about our links to various Departments. Our modus operandi has been to set up steering groups with representation from relevant bodies across the island in our programmes and research projects. We always ensure the relevant Departments North and South are represented on those steering groups.
Mr. Liam Nellis
This helps with implementation.
I will now deal with some of the points raised by Dr. McDonnell. This is still a work in progress and there is a lot more to be done. The area of collaboration is a lot better, as is the whole feel of North-South economic co-operation, which is at a much higher level than previously but there is still more to do. We are the only organisation on the island of Ireland where the people wake up in the morning thinking about how we can improve North-South economic collaboration and co-operation. No one else is doing this. Enterprise Ireland and Invest Northern Ireland may become involved in some North-South activities where these are relevant to their work but that is not their remit. If it were not for the work of InterTradeIreland it either would not happen or it would not happen as quickly as it does. We are the catalyst to keep things moving along but there is a lot more to do. Other areas need to be considered. We continue to carry on co-operation.
The remit was very specific when we were established and it continues to be so. It is set out in joint legislation between two sovereign Governments. It very clearly excludes involvement in foreign direct investment. We are not involved in that arena as our remit is within the island of Ireland, North and South. We do not go into the territory of co-operation between IDA Ireland and Invest Northern Ireland. Obviously we are keen to see them co-operate and we promote such co-operation. We are aware of their co-operation on overseas projects, perhaps not in the competitive arena of chasing a particular project but in terms of access to each other's offices. This means that businesses in Northern Ireland now have full access to all the resources of the Irish Government overseas and vice versa. In the past few years there has been much greater involvement in joint trade missions where Northern Ireland companies are part of trade missions headed up by the Taoiseach or the President to places such as China or Saudi Arabia and vice versa. That is all happening and is very healthy, but we do not get involved in the inward investment issue.
The second point Dr. McDonnell MP raised concerned resistance, real or perceived, to what we are doing. We have found a tremendous shift in the attitude to and involvement with InterTradeIreland in recent times. Some people have been sceptical of our work. I am not talking about this coming from one particular area. Many people are very sceptical about the work we do and how we add value. We convinced many people across all sections in the political establishment and across the official Government establishment. I will give one example. Dr. Paisley had heard that we were bringing the roadshow that I mentioned to Ballymena. He contacted our office to ask if it would be appropriate for him to come along to support what were doing and have a photo call with us. Ian Paisley Sr. and Ian Paisley Jr. came to our roadshow in Ballymena and stood side by side with us, with the people from Ballymena. Some 160 companies were present promoting North-South collaboration. That is a sign of the progress we have made on this.
Mr. Aidan Gough
Dr. McDonnell asked whether all the work was done. In many respects we are now reaching the stage where the work is beginning to maximise the opportunities. In the first few years we found that the two economies on the island had essentially developed back to back. This meant that the business communities did not know each other. We had to reintroduce the business communities to each other because it is that face-to-face interaction that leads to new business. Now that we have done that, we need to help these companies reap the opportunities of cross-Border co-operation, which is what our programmes are doing. The demand for our programmes is rising.
Mr. Liam Nellis
Senator Bacik asked about the nature of some of the programmes and for some more detail on what we do. I may have been a bit light on that in the interest of time. I will give two examples, one on our whole trade side and one on the innovation research and development technology transfer side. On the trade side the programme that has been mentioned is Acumen. Acumen is a programme where a company on one side of the Border has never done business on the other side. In that case we can give it up to 50% of the cost of a market research study to investigate the opportunity for its business and products. If the company has done a little bit of business in the other jurisdiction — for example less than 10% — and wants to build that business in a serious way, we can give it up to half the cost of a salesperson to go into the other side of the Border for up to a year. That programme has been running under our auspices for approximately six or seven years and has had tremendous results. That is where we get much of the feedback on value. We set companies targets when they go into the programme. It is very easy if they are doing nothing; at the end of the year we can see that building and it is easy to extract the business value to them.
Is that invested directly into the company?
Mr. Liam Nellis
We would pay the company half the cost of putting a salesperson on the road for a year with the target of increased business in the other jurisdiction. It is very carefully monitored and measured that the person is being used for that purpose. Examples are useful. Within Acumen, for Donegal Carpets the Northern Ireland market would appear an obvious target. However, despite its proximity to Northern Ireland, the company had no sales presence in the North. We were involved in helping to put in an experienced marketer in Northern Ireland and within a year sales had gone from zero to €235,000 with contracts from private residential, industrial and commercial clients. It also got significant work from the Odyssey Arena in Belfast. That is just one example and there are many more.
On the technology transfer side, within the FUSION programme we identify the first stage of a company. We identify a company somewhere on the island of Ireland with a product or process development need clearly identified by the company. We then link it through to an academic institution or knowledge centre — it could be a university, institute of technology or further education college, or it could be Teagasc as we have mentioned before. It would be somewhere that provides academic support. We put in a graduate for up to 18 months to develop the product or process, to develop a new product line or to take costs from the bottom line. For example, at Roche Manufacturing in County Galway the FUSION project introduced a computer-aided design department to facilitate product design. Following that support the company has developed five new products and has accessed new markets in the Middle East, with 80% of sales now exports versus 40% before it took on the graduate and academic support. It has reduced its product design process from 12 to two weeks and has trebled its production capacity. That is an example of the power of what we are doing.
We are tracking projects over time. We are getting better at it; we were not so good but we now are. A few months ago I visited a company in Donegal that completed a FUSION programme two years ago and asked it to outline the benefits it had accrued from that investment — we are not saying this, it is on record. The company advised us that the FUSION project had helped it to get €35 million of new business and secured 80 jobs. There have been some very powerful programmes. I have given only two examples. I could go on all day, but I know we do not have time. We would be very happy to provide information.
I was also asked what we do on public procurement and again it is very easy to measure the success of that. When we find a company that has never had a contract on the other side of the Border, it is very easy to see the effect. We give 1.5 days' tailored training to small companies probably brought together in groups of approximately 14 or 15. We advise them what the public procurement market is like in the other jurisdiction, what the opportunities are and how to pitch. In the North, for example, all public procurement is centralised through the central procurement directorate. They all go out in framework contracts, etc. In the Southern system, each individual Department, utility company or local authority does its own. They are very different systems. We advise companies as to how to do that. We are talking about a return on investment of 6:1. That is probably the most cost effective programme we have ever run. It is very reasonably priced and is good value to put on. It does not cost that much. From the results we are getting back from companies that have cracked the other market, we can report a return on investment of almost 25:1. These are just some of the things we are doing. I ask Mr. Gough to come in to give me time to draw a breath.
Mr. Aidan Gough
I believe Deputy Scanlon raised the issue of public procurement tendering disadvantage for companies in the South tendering in the North. We have found that this is a massive €19 billion market. Very few companies from the North or the South are winning contracts in the other jurisdiction because of the different requirements. We are trying to open this market through the programme Mr. Nellis has described. We are finding success for both Northern and Southern companies. I know there are very high profile local issues when a company from one particular area does not win it and a company from across the Border does. However, it works both ways. A big contract in Belfast went to a Cork construction company just a week ago. It was one of the biggest public infrastructure projects.
Mr. Liam Nellis
It is for the new museum and arts centre to be in the cathedral quarter. It will be the biggest public procurement investment in the North in the foreseeable future and it has gone to a Cork company with an association with a Belfast company.
Mr. Aidan Gough
The wider benefit of an all-island approach to these issues is that it makes companies more competitive. Both economies benefit because it drives down costs.
I seek clarification. Do companies approach InterTradeIreland seeking advice and guidance on procurement, following which it organises the 1.5-day sessions for them to attend?
Mr. Liam Nellis
A company can find us through our website, which contains all this information. We have companies involved in a number of different programmes. There is one programme I did not mention. We work with county enterprise boards and local enterprise agencies on a programme called MicroTrade. They would find information about what we can do and then we would bring 14 or 15 of them together at a time to take them through that process. These happen regularly during the year. If members know of companies which may be interested, they should contact us.
When a company approaches a county enterprise board, the IDA, Enterprise Ireland, its local Leader company or one or other of the roughly 25 organisations in the South, not to speak of the North, which deal with these matters, does a North-South dimension form part of the process?
Mr. Liam Nellis
I brought representatives of two companies to the most recent meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council to make a presentation to Ministers. Both are engineering companies, one is Combilift from County Monaghan, and the other is Marlborough Engineering from Belfast. The chap from Marlborough Engineering spoke very well about his involvement in the Acumen programme but forgot to mention that it is run by InterTradeIreland. He stated the advice to join the programme had come from Invest Northern Ireland. The process works very well.
There is potential for greater sharing of resources and costs. Enterprise Ireland provided a pot of money for its Acumen programme clients and Invest Northern Ireland provided a pot of money for its clients on the programme. InterTradeIreland does not have clients and can deal with any company, which means we provide support for any companies that are not picked up. This is collaboration at its best and the Enterprise Ireland and Invest Northern Ireland sit with us on the steering committee. There is scope for more of this type of work in the FUSION programme and some other programmes, particularly as resources become tighter. The models are, however, in place.
Deputy Conlon referred to relationships in the Monaghan area. While InterTradeIreland does not specifically target sub-regional areas, I could find several examples of companies from the Monaghan area which have benefited significantly from our programme. I referred to Combilift, for instance, which has been involved in several of our programmes, including Acumen and FUSION. As I pointed out, Martin McVicar from the company recently made a presentation to Ministers at Dublin Castle.
Senator Doherty asked about the level of trade one would expect between two neighbouring jurisdictions with a shared border and indicated that trade between Northern Ireland and the Republic is 80% lower than one would expect. This figure is taken from a gravity model we used recently in an examination of more than 40 countries worldwide with shared borders. An important fact that does not emerge from these stark figures is that Ireland has a very strong international direction, with most exports supplied to the United States from the pharmaceutical and software sectors. The level of cross-Border trade we can extract from the overall trade figures is therefore small. However, much of the reason for this is that Ireland has such strong economic links with the United States. Nevertheless, the results show significant opportunities.
Deputy Crawford referred to the food and drink sector. Agrifood is the most integrated sector on the island and still has scope for improvement. A major agrifood study is under way and InterTradeIreland has been pulling it together. All the main agencies, North and South, including Bord Bia, are represented. Mr. Gough is closely involved and may wish to say a few words about the study.
Mr. Aidan Gough
While it is important to point out the benefits of North-South co-operation, for example, in the agrifood industry, they go beyond mere trade and can be reaped in improved international competitiveness for companies on the island. We have not completed the study on the agrifood industry. Agrifood is the largest indigenous sector North and South, employing more than 60,000 people across the island. It is also one of our largest exporting indigenous sectors. Clearly, therefore, there are benefits to be reaped from co-operation on innovation, research, training, skills development and, in particular, in scale.
Another example of how North-South co-operation can produce international benefits is the US-Ireland research and development partnership, for which InterTradeIreland provides the secretariat. The partnership was first mooted in Washington in 2002 and we are now reaping its benefits. Only two weeks ago, four projects were announced under the partnership. These are being funded by Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and the United States through its National Institute of Health and National Science Foundation. As these projects go through the peer review system in the United States, they brand this island as world class in the areas in which they are working.
Mr. Liam Nellis
The areas in question are diabetes, multiple sclerosis, nanotechnology and sensors, all of which are high end research areas. The researchers involved, who described some of the projects at the recent event, are truly world class.
Senator Doherty asked about remaining barriers to trade. There is no doubt that it is not a perfect world. When InterTradeIreland was established all those years ago we did a considerable amount of analysis. We spoke to 1,500 companies from across the island at four locations, Dublin, Limerick, Derry and Belfast. We had focus groups with companies and put a series of questions to them. For example, we asked if they did business on the other side of the Border, if so, how much business they did and, if not, why not. We analysed the results and set out our stall for our future direction.
We expected that the large macro issues, such as currency volatility, which is still an issue, infrastructure deficits, which have all but disappeared as a result of the significant improvement in infrastructure, and taxation differences, would be cited as the main barriers. We found, however, that these issues were not causing problems for companies. Consistently, across all four locations, soft issues were cited as barriers. For example, respondents stated they did not know who the relevant people were in the other jurisdiction, were not familiar with how business was done on the other side of the Border or did not have sufficient information on the local market. As anyone involved in business or politics will know, one does not do deals unless one trusts people and one does not trust people unless one knows them. Our role in recent years, apart from addressing the hard issues, has been to bring people together, often for the first time, with a view to developing relationships. We have now gone beyond this evangelising phase and are now at the point where companies know about InterTradeIreland and approach us unsolicited because they see the economic value of what we are doing.
We have discussed research, public procurement and agrifood, about which we can provide further information if members wish. On local networks, we were also asked about Sligo-Leitrim. We can give examples of any area, county or city on the island where our projects have been established and achieved success. While this has been patchy, there are some areas where we have not achieved as much penetration as we would like. The six roadshow events we held earlier in the year will not be the end of our activity in that respect. While budgets must be a consideration in future, we intend to roll out another group of roadshows. Some of the ideas and discussions here today point us towards areas to consider.
We are pleased to have had an opportunity to inform the joint committee about our activities. InterTradeIreland is an open organisation which welcomes visitors. If the joint committee decides to travel, its members will find a welcome home in Newry for an afternoon.
I thank Mr. Nellis and Mr. Gough for their presentation and responses. Members of the joint committee would like to visit InterTradeIreland's offices in Newry, hopefully in the new year. This will form part of another programme of visits to key institutions and agencies in the North. We have been considering that for some time.
When I was Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with special responsibility for science and technology I helped to assist in the creation of the North-South innovation conference and international lecture series. That was of major assistance in creating a bond between the business communities North and South. Is that still ongoing and has the process been sustained?
Good graduate programmes have been in operation, especially in conjunction with the United States, involving people from all sides of the divide, North and South. A successful programme operated in conjunction with Boston College and there was one in Washington. Are they still in operation?
Are functional foods being considered in the agrifood study? Does InterTradeIreland see a role for them and an opportunity for Ireland to develop into the international market? Will the witnesses expand a little on the polymer plastics area? We have a big interest in that. The Athlone Institute of Technology has a big polymer plastics programme. Kingspan, which is a North-South company, is also involved in that area. The GFC group, which is based in Galway and has an international dimension, has a big engagement in that area also.
I am pleased with the success of the merger and partnership between the Construction Industry Federation and the Northern Ireland Construction Employers' Federation. I pay tribute to Mr. Nellis for the major role he has played in that regard. I was pleased to collaborate with him on that in the past. In these difficult days for the construction sector, does he consider there is much potential for that to continue? Will he expand a little on the impact of county and city enterprise boards in terms of the micro-trade initiative?
I was impressed with the fact that InterTradeIreland considers there is a 6:1 return on the investments being made. That mirrors the investment the European Union has made on the island of Ireland since 1973. That is positive. It is important for us to understand the generous way in which Ireland is treated by the European Union. It treats the Republic of Ireland as one entity, Northern Ireland as another entity and England, Scotland and Wales as separate entities. Where we need European collaboration to draw down resources we can qualify once we have three different partners. It is important to acknowledge that. We should appreciate that no other island or member state gets that treatment from the Union.
We estimated that following the Good Friday Agreement there was potential to grow trade North and South by approximately 400%. How much of that estimated capacity has been achieved? I thank the representatives of InterTradeIreland. We look forward to meeting them again. I would appreciate some response to my questions where possible.
There is reference in the documentation to equity finance being raised. What is the situation and is it still possible to do that? Especially in the Border region, where we depend on banks whose home base is not south of the Border we have a difficulty getting seed corn and finance for business. Is it possible to get finance from InterTradeIreland?
There is huge potential North and South for collaboration on this island between third level institutes, in particular, and others on laser technology. We have not engaged in the potential that exists. Perhaps that is something InterTradeIreland might address in the future. Teleworking has developed successfully in rural Northern Ireland in the past two decades, especially in the past ten years.
Mr. Liam Nellis
I thank the Chairman. I will first take Deputy Crawford's question about access to capital. We do not raise the funds. We provide the environment and signposts. We provide a centre of knowledge and excellence on equity and venture capital across the island and have links into all the funds. Several different models exist. We have an all-island business angel network where high net-worth individuals come on panels North and South to look for suitable investments for companies that are investor ready. I am happy to provide details on that. I am sure there will be some in Deputy Crawford's area.
We also have a seed corn competition, which is part of that network. It takes place once a year. We closed applications to it in September and we are in the process of sifting through them. A potential high-growth company seeking seed capital can enter this competition as an early entrée into that system. The competition is done regionally across the island and there are regional winners. The beauty of it is that it is not all about the money prize at the end. Companies going through the process are tested on an ongoing basis by panels of people from the business community and venture capitalists. There is mentoring and master classes. By the time the companies move through the process their investor pitch is ready. One of the biggest difficulties in the area, especially for small companies in every region of the island, is not that there is no money, but that the investment pitch is not properly developed or matured and that the product is not investor ready. Part of our work is getting companies investor ready so that when they have the five minutes or ten minutes in front of a venture capitalist they will say the right things. What one finds is that a small company that has developed its product, let it be a box or whatever, spends all of its time talking about the box, not who will buy it and how much it will get for it. It is up to us to ensure that people can give more information.
On the Chairman's questions, we had a number of all-island competitiveness lectures, some of them in Limerick and other places. I thank him for supporting us in those early years. We are very grateful. We still hold a number of events in the area of competitiveness and innovation. That is Mr. Gough's area of expertise.
Mr. Aidan Gough
The events the Chairman was talking about were probably the genesis of the new North-South or all-island innovation programme. We invite key speakers, who lead international figures in the area of innovation, to talk. Three universities have signed up to participate. The speakers go to Queen's University, NUI, Galway, and UCD in Dublin. It is a practical initiative. The focus is on getting companies to attend the events. We succeed in that regard as more than 100 companies attend each lecture. Around the all-island innovation programme we have built a network of researchers in the area of innovation, which brings in the academic and business links as well as the cross-Border links.
Mr. Liam Nellis
The Chairman gave us credit for something that was not ours so I have to admit that. We are supportive of the international Boston College and the Washington programmes. I attended an event in Dublin Castle two weeks ago to celebrate 15 years of the Washington-Ireland programme. It does tremendous work and gives graduates North and South an opportunity to get into the inner workings of Washington and Capitol Hill. I continue to support the programme by bringing it to the attention of business.
We will incorporate functional foods into the agrifood study. Another aspect of the area, which has been taken up by companies is branding. There is a strong feeling among food companies that we have lost the good Irish brands and that we need to get brands that are internationally recognisable. I refer to Erin Foods and other such companies that have disappeared over the years through mergers and takeovers. A big drive is taking place in that regard.
Mr. Aidan Gough
Polymer plastics is an underappreciated sector in terms of its contribution to the economies North and South. That was the first surprise in the report. Following the report's publication, co-operative actions in the areas of innovation, research and development, skills development, benchmarking and training have been taken on the basis that the industry was willing to co-operate. Co-operation is also taking place between research institutes North and South. Currently, there is a very active network.
Mr. Liam Nellis
I take on board the Chairman's comments on the construction sector. I will talk to some contacts in that area and revert to the Chairman with information on what is happening. The MicroTrade programme, which we funded, reached the end of its phase earlier in the year. We have been working with those concerned to remodel it because we felt the overall value did not match up to the requirement regarding impact. Everybody agrees more could be got out of it, including the county enterprise boards and the local enterprise agencies. We have developed a new regional model consisting of four discrete regions. Part of the difficulty was that some of the enterprise boards liked the idea and some did not. There were areas of the country that were not involved in North-South initiatives and we are now trying to get local people to address this.
With regard to the frameworks, we are involved in all aspects of innovation. We are actively involved in considering the framework programme, which involves the collaboration of three European countries. At the next meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council, we will present a paper on innovation and technology and put to the Ministers that we really need to capitalise on the opportunity we have as two neighbouring states. All we need is one other partner to gain access to the money. We are actively working on this case.
On behalf of all my colleagues, I thank Mr. Nellis and Mr. Gough for their most informative presentation. Both of them, with their colleagues, are to be commended on their work to date on building cross-Border business networks. We value and appreciate them. We are delighted to have collaborated with the delegates in the past and hope there will be greater emphasis on their initiatives across the island.
The delegates have done the groundwork for achieving considerable growth in cross-Border trade and all-island economic development. Their work is a great example of the advantages that can be derived on both sides of the Border from the effective functioning of North-South bodies. We envisage considerable potential and numerous opportunities for all people on this island as a result of the work of InterTradeIreland. Northern Ireland companies are creating new requirements for companies in the Republic in terms of competition. At all levels, we must adapt to this changing environment. To respond, we must have political consensus on making the necessary changes, with union flexibility, industrial leadership and positive, pragmatic social partnership to create a level playing field for investors, producers, retailers, workers, consumers and, ultimately, all people on the island of Ireland. The work of InterTradeIreland will help us in this regard. We all have responsibility, personally, politically and collectively, to ensure we can make the vital changes so there will be considerable opportunities for all people, North and South, as we develop an all-island economy.
On behalf of all members present and those who are absent, I pay special tribute to a lady who has devoted four decades to public service in the Civil Service, namely, Ms Ita O'Looney from County Clare, who is in the Gallery today. She will retire tomorrow after considerable service to our country. We are deeply grateful for her service and would like to wish her well. We look forward to meeting her in the future and appreciate all the work she has done. Through her, I pay tribute to all her colleagues, past and present, for their contribution to the development of this country and its public service.