Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement debate -
Thursday, 29 May 2014

Role of the Arts and Culture in Enhancing Reconciliation: Discussion

Chairman

Our session this morning deals with the role of the arts and culture in enhancing reconciliation. On behalf of this committee, I am pleased to welcome the delegations from various cultural groups in Derry: Donncha Mac Niallais and Carol Nic Conmara from Cultúrlann Uí Chanáin, Eibhlín Ní Dhochartaigh from the Fleadh 2013 executive committee, Lisa Anderson from Droichead, Derek Moore from the Londonderry Bands Forum, James Kee and Darren Milligan from the Sollus Centre, and Jonathan Burgess from Blue Eagle Productions. I welcome everybody. I met some of our visitors on a recent trip to the north west, and it is good to see them again. We look forward to an informative meeting at which we will find out what they have been up to since we last met them - on the bounce of the success of Derry-Londonderry City of Culture and Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann. No doubt they are still on a high up there and we certainly sensed that during our visit. The city is in a good place, although I know there is still an enormous challenge ahead of all us in regard to peace and reconciliation challenges on the ground. I believe the roles of the various groups here as cultural ambassadors must be commended. We are delighted they could all be here with us today.

We will allow each group make a presentation and then we will have feedback from committee members. Perhaps we will take half of the groups first and then have feedback and then take the rest. We will watch the time to see how that goes. Before we move on to the presentations, I advise witnesses that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their utterances at this committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease making remarks on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their remarks. They are directed that only comments related to the subject matter of this meeting are to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against a Member of either House of the Oireachtas, a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I now invite Ms Eibhlín Ní Dhochartaigh of the Fleadh 2013 executive committee to make her introductory remarks.

Ms Eibhlín Ní Dhochartaigh

I would like to thank the committee for inviting us here today to share our experience working in the field of arts and culture, particularly in the fleadh. The fleadh was a mutual sharing of experiences that was a meaningful, real and true community engagement process, and I believe it should serve as a benchmark for the potential for meaningful engagement where there is open and honest dialogue, mutual respect and the creation of meaningful opportunities for engagement. There are endless possibilities if there is a willingness to take a leap of faith.

Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann is recognised as a huge success - a truly historic and momentous event. It was an inclusive fleadh and all the people of the city were encouraged to enjoy and participate in it. We are grateful and would like to pay tribute to our friends in the Protestant and Unionist community who supported the fleadh wholeheartedly. The process of engagement that has ensued demonstrates to all of our communities that we can celebrate in an inclusive and positive way. The fleadh cheoil was just the beginning of a journey and a collective meeting of minds and sharing of cultures. We have already set targets for future projects, and our community engagement officer will provide some of the background on those.

Undoubtedly, the fleadh was a success, but our engagement with the Protestant and Unionist community, particularly with the Londonderry Bands Forum, was probably one of the most significant positive outcomes for us. The decision to bring the fleadh to the North and the realisation of those involved from all cultures that they had a place in it and that the engagement was all-inclusive and not tokenistic was significant. The fleadh is over now, but the feel-good factor and the good news story goes on, which is what we wanted the fleadh to develop. This is the legacy year, but even before the fleadh, we were looking towards what its legacy would be. We are on that journey for a continued engagement.

This is my personal experience of the fleadh in terms of community engagement. I am sure all the other groups here will give their individual interpretation of their sentiments on the fleadh and other aspects of the culture we have been sharing since then.

Chairman

Thank you. Brevity is the order of the day and it is a good sign that we are moving on, but that could change. Does Ms Anderson wish to make her presentation now?

Mr. Donncha Mac Niallais

Tá cúpla focal le rá agamsa.

Ms Eibhlín Ní Dhochartaigh

First, I would like to invite Donncha Mac Niallais and Carol Nic Conmara to comment and give the committee an insight into their work in Irish language development within the cultúrlann and the city.

Chairman

Okay.

Mr. Donncha Mac Niallais

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach as an fháilte a chuir sé romhainn chuig an cruinniú seo.

Táimidne insan cultúrlann ag obair ar chúrsaí Gaeilge le fada. Mar a tharla, thart faoi deich mbliana nó 15 bliain ó shin chuamar i ngleic leis an bpobal Protastúnach faoi chúrsaí Gaeilge, mar thuigeamar go raibh daoine sa phobal sin a bhí i gcoinne na Gaeilge nó nár thuig an tábhacht a bhain leis an teanga. Ghlac muid leis go raibh cóir agus a bheith 99% den phobal Aontachtach ar a laghad i gcoinne na Gaeilge, ach síleann muid go bhfuil sin ag athrú. Bhí mise bainteach le bunú Gaelscoileanna thart faoi 15 bliain ó shin agus bhí sé de rún againn i gcónaí fáilte a chur roimh páistí Protastúnacha. Tá áthas orm a rá gur tharla sin agus go raibh Protastúnaigh sa phobal a bhí sásta a bpáistí a chur chuig na scoileanna sin. Cothrom na féinne dóibh faoi sin, go háirithe nuair a smaoiníonn muid ar an dúshlán a ghlac siad a bpáistí a chur chuig an Ghaelscoil.

Faoi láthair, tá fadhbanna sna Sé Contaethe go fóill maidir le dearcadh, go háirithe dearcadh na páirtithe polaitiúla ar an dtaobh Aontachtach faoin Ghaeilge. Síleann muid gur cóir go mbeadh díospóireacht leis na páirtithe polaitiúla sin chun na tuairimí atá acu faoin Ghaeilge a shoiléiriú ionas go mbeidh seans againn-----

Chairman

There is a mobile phone interfering with the sound system. Perhaps if it was left on the floor, it might not cause interference.

Mr. Donncha Mac Niallais

Síleann muid gur cóir go mbeadh díospóireacht leis na páirtithe sin agus bheadh muid sásta a bheith páírteach sa díospóireacht sin.

An príomh éileamh atá ag pobal na Gaeilge - téann seo trasna ar achan gné den saol Gaeilge - ná go mbeidh Acht na Gaeilge ann, Acht a chaomhnóidh agus a chosnóidh cearta phobal na Gaeilge. Muna mbeidh sin ann, is féidir le Rannóga Stáit agus Rialtais cearta Gaeilgeoirí a shéanadh. Nuair a bhí na comhráite ar siúl cheana, d'aontaigh an dá Rialtas, Rialtas na hÉireann agus Rialtas Shasana, go dtabharfadh siad an tAcht sin chun tosaigh. Sílim mar sin go bhfuil dualgas ar an dá Rialtas cloí leis an dualgas sin a tugadh dóibh.

Sin agaibh réamhrá ar chúrsaí Gaeilge sa Tuaisceart. Táimid ag obair leis an bpobal Protastúnach agus le cuid de na daoine sa seomra seo maidir le sin. Ar ndóigh, táimid ag iarraidh imní ar bith atá ag an bpobal sin a laghdú. Tá súil againn, taobh istigh de roinnt blianta, go mbeidh ranganna Gaeilge i gceantar Protastúnach i nDoire, díreach mar atá i mBéal Feirste faoi láthair.

Ms Lisa Anderson

When I joined Cultúrlann Uí Chanáin, the fleadh executive committee had already set out objectives, long before the fleadh came to the town. Among the objectives were: to involve more people in the work of Comhaltas; to host an inclusive, cross-community fleadh; to build strategic partnerships and promote civic unity; and to contribute generally to the building of peace and reconciliation. That was the remit. Following this, various meetings were held with different communities within the city. We were very lucky that during one of the meetings the Londonderry Banks Forum became involved and challenged what its contribution could be. It expressed some ideas on what it would like to do and gave us food for thought. As a result, several meetings took place with the forum, during which a dialogue began.

One of the interesting things about these meetings was that when people went into them, the onus was to find common ground. If one had gone into to these meetings, one would have seen two groups of people who from the outside looked very different. If one was to judge the book by the cover, one would wonder what kind of meeting would take place. The common ground was music, cultural heritage and the roots of music and we found that people spent more time discussing their interest in music. Both groups and the bands forum were very enthusiastic and music was their motivation and passion. I believe it was because of this that the engagement worked so well. It was on this basis that the various engagements were built. The bands became very involved and through building trust with the cultúrlann, they realised their involvement would not be tokenistic. We had a number of different engagements with the bands, right through from the pageant to the closing event. They played on stages with the fleadh logo behind them and they were welcomed and applauded. This provided them with an opportunity to showcase what they were most passionate about - their music. This brought people together and gave them the opportunity to see what the fleadh was about and what, ultimately, many of the bands felt they were about - their music. They received a warm reception and everybody, from both sides of the community, came out of the event having learned a lot.

One of the most important aspects of the engagement was that a relationship had been built. There was listening to a significant degree on both sides. With the common ground being music, people were able to find something to talk about and could then negotiate and work around what was or was not possible. Everybody had the same agenda, which was to showcase music and cultural heritage which was to be celebrated, rather than used as a tool to make others feel bad. Following the fleadh, we have continued our engagement and hope to build on it.

A similar engagement is taking place on the Irish language. We have begun to put together a programme which uses the language as a tool to bring people together. Through looking at its history, we see that there is significant information of which people are unaware. We are working with groups and hope to bring the programme to communities that would not normally see the Irish language as something which belongs to them. We hope to do this through a programme that includes presentations, talks and engagement. We hope to get a group from the Protestant and Unionist community involved and it has already said it would be interested in using the language.

They have already said that they would be interested in taking up the language. The process that has taken place is using culture - which in the past was seen as one of the biggest areas of contention - as something to be celebrated. It is just about getting people to look at it in a different way and providing them with an opportunity to showcase their cultural heritage in a way that does not threaten another community. It is still at the early stages but has been very successful so far and hopefully that will continue.

Chairman

Thank you Ms Anderson. Who is next, Ms Ní Dhochartaigh?

Ms Eibhlín Ní Dhochartaigh

I would like to ask Mr. Burgess to speak next. He is a very respected writer and playwright in our city. One of his plays was presented to a packed house at the Fleadh recently and was well received by all. His work explodes many myths and misconceptions about the Protestant community. He will speak about his experiences, his work and why he does what he does.

Chairman

That is a lot to live up to.

Mr. Jonathan Burgess

Indeed and I hope I do not disappoint. I thank the committee for its invitation. It is nice to be here this morning. My name is Jonathan Burgess and I run an independent theatre company in Londonderry called Blue Eagle Productions. Other witness will speak about how the Protestant or loyalist community has developed since the UK City of Culture experience and the opportunities provided by that designation. I have been working in theatre in the city for over 20 years. My community does not really undertake the arts in any serious way in terms of exploding myths or presenting opportunities to validate or tell stories. My ambition is to continue to try to do that.

Work that I have undertaken in the last six or seven years which was particular to my own culture includes The Exodus, a full-length play examining the movement of Protestants from the west bank of the Foyle in the early part of the 1970s. Approximately 98% of Protestants left that area at the start of the Troubles and my play examines the reasons for that. That is a hot potato and something which lives deep-seatedly within the conscience of the Protestant community in Londonderry, but it had never really been talked about before. In presenting it in a theatrical way, one is holding it up but not telling one person's story or exposing one person's truth to the scrutiny of everybody. One is creating, fundamentally, a dramatised presentation to represent the theme. In representing that theme, one has created an opportunity for discussion and interaction. That play toured across the whole of Northern Ireland as well as in Donegal. It has gone on to create community dialogue. I have brought copies of the play for everyone here. It was picked up by the Church of Ireland, for example, which wanted to look at how something which happened in 1973 manifests itself within the Protestant community in 2013. I also wrote a series of short scenes which were filmed and which became part of a workshop facilitation process which was happening in the community. I have included a copy of the DVD with the copy of the play for committee members.

I did a show last year called Crows on the Wire which was set on the night that the RUC became the PSNI. It dealt with the dissatisfaction among rank and file officers in the RUC with what was happening to them. They perceived themselves as being a means to achieve political change rather than being reactive to political change. They felt that they were being used as a carrot to create that space within society and a lot of people wondered why that was so.

I am not seeking to inhabit the middle ground but to take stories from the areas on the edges, from the marginalised areas within the Protestant community and represent them in a public forum for debate. A lot of my community missed out on the single identity work which was part of the PEACE Programmes. We have always been playing catch up but have never really caught up. Given that we never got the opportunity to do that single identity work, there has been a lack of trust in that process and in the mechanisms surrounding discussion and facilitation of stories within public fora. That is what I am trying to do through theatre and education.

Last year, as part of the UK City of Culture, I wrote a play which looked at the history of the Orange Order. That toured to maintained and controlled schools within the Derry City Council area and was received very well. All I was trying to do was to put the story out there and allow people to see it, create discussion and create the space for it. Art and culture facilitates such debates and engagement. I will try to continue to do that and hopefully the work will be well received.

I will now hand over to Mr. James Kee from the Sollus Centre just outside Londonderry.

Mr. James Kee

I thank Mr. Burgess. As a man from the country, from the sticks, I apologise for bringing a script here, which I will use. I will tell the committee some of what I see as good news stories that have developed from the community that I work with in the Sollus Centre. My name is James Kee and I will give the committee a synopsis of some of the projects I have been involved in on behalf of Bready and District Ulster-Scots Development Association.

Built on the site of an old Orange Order hall, the Sollus Centre is situation in north Tyrone in the village of Bready, seven miles from Derry/Londonderry and just two miles from County Donegal as the crow flies across the river Foyle. The centre, built seven years ago, is seen as the cultural hub of the community. Activities and projects that have been delivered from the centre include music tuition, particularly highland bagpipes and drumming classes. I apologise for the absence today of Mr. Darren Mulligan who had hoped to tell the committee about how, at the age of nine, he was encouraged by his grandfather to learn to play the great highland bagpipes. At the age of ten, he was told he was not going to make it but he decided that he was going to make it. He studied folk and traditional music at university in Newcastle in England and is now probably one of the top solo pipers in the country. He is now based in the Sollus Centre and provides tuition there to others as part of the skilled curriculum. He is somebody who others wanted to consign to the scrap heap at ten years of age but he decided that he was not having any of it.

Highland dance is also very popular in the centre. I have a biased viewpoint here. A young lady who left school with top marks in her GCSEs, Ms Georgina Kee-McCarter - a modern bride who wanted to keep her maiden name, and also my daughter - decided that she wanted to study dance. She had started dancing at the age of 13, studied dance at Magee University in Derry and is now a full-time dance instructor. She has about 500 pupils weekly, many of whom are from the seven local primary schools within a 20 mile radius of the Sollus Centre.

When we can, we try to undertake social economy projects. We have a womens' group called Sollus Social Enterprises composed mainly of the mums of the pupils of the highland dance classes. Many of them had previous experience of working in the shirt factories in Derry and the surrounding areas which are no longer extant. Some of them who are in their later years have skills which would have been lost over time but they are now making uniforms for the dancers. I do not know if committee members are familiar with the Royal Edinburgh Military Tattoo but the ladies from the Sollus Centre made the costumes for 84 highland dancers for that event three years ago. That was quite an achievement for a group of about 30 ladies from a wee place in north Tyrone.

We have approximately 12 to 13 regular user groups along with some letable office space, which contributes towards the running costs of the centre.

The day-to-day management of the centre is looked after by volunteers. We have no paid staff. Sontas, a ten-piece traditional group, use the centre for practice. Sontas, comprising five Protestants and five Catholics, got together approximately six years ago after I delivered a project called Traditions Meet, a showcase telling 400 years of local, national and international history through the medium of music, song and dance. The group performed for President McAleese at the launch of the 12 July celebrations in Dublin four years ago. They performed at the launch of the fleadh in Derry last year with President Higgins in attendance and for four of the past five years in Parliament Buildings, Stormont, at the request of the speaker of the House, Mr. Willie Hay. They have launched St. Patrick's Day festivities and at the request of the tourist board played in Vanderbilt Hall, New York, at a marketing event to persuade international visitors to come and see what we have to offer in this country.

Our latest venture is Sollus Cultural Promotions, another social economy project set up as a community interest company to organise the Walled City Tattoo, which has nothing to do with body art. Some 500 performers played to 14,000 paying spectators as part of the UK City of Culture event in 2013. The country's largest outdoor amphitheatre was created at the historic site of Ebrington, adjacent to the city's Peace Bridge. I have copies of last year's programme and, with the permission of the Chair, I will leave some of them for members.

We now work in partnership with Cultúrlann personnel on some events, delivering what I see as a positive message to the rest of the province. We do get chastised in some cases for raising our head above the parapet, but the end product is much too important to let this go.

The common thread that is running through all that has been achieved is the performing arts. This work may or may not have the ability to become self-sustainable, but in my mind this is one of the main arteries for continuing to building peace and reconciliation in our country. Our motto in Sollus is: "Have pride in your own culture and respect for others."

Chairman

Thank you, Mr. Kee. We are still in the hands of Ms Ní Dhochartaigh.

Ms Eibhlín Ní Dhochartaigh

Mr. Derek Moore, the co-ordinator for the Londonderry Bands Forum, will speak on the background to the bands forum, to be followed by Mr. Brian Dougherty, who is also connected with the bands forum, as well as with the peace and reconciliation work in St. Columb's Park House and other ventures in Derry.

Mr. Derek Moore

As Ms Ní Dhochartigh said, I work at St. Columb's Park House, Londonderry, as part of the International Fund for Ireland Pipes of Peace programme and as co-ordinator of the Londonderry Bands Forum. The Londonderry Bands Forum was set up in October 2010 with help from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. With another 16 bands, we are members of an umbrella group representing 435 of the 660 bands in Northern Ireland.

The aims of this unique project, the first of its kind in Northern Ireland, can best be summed up by the following. I am responsible for hosting monthly meetings of the forum in order to keep the members up to date with relevant issues. We are also developing training programmes with the aim of helping the current leadership of the bands with the management and general running of the bands. More importantly, we are doing the same thing with junior members who are identified as the future leaders of the bands. Education is the most important element of the overall project because we believe that a lack of knowledge and understanding that has led to many of the issues we face. We believe this initiative has relevance for all sections of the community, and that is our main focus and priority. In association with local community groups, we are encouraging the bands in some of the more marginalised parts of the city to take an active approach to developments in their own areas. During the two years I have been working with the forum, I have organised a series of network events for the bands' leadership with statutory bodies. We are working with organisers of the parades and marching bands. We are encouraging the bands to promote and publicise all the positive work they do and we are helping the members to forge links with various groups such as Cultúrlann in order to expand their horizons and spread the culture and ideas through dialogue and education. The programme is actively building on the tentative steps taken in the past few years by encouraging the member bands to look beyond their own communities and to engage with marching bands in areas they never explored before.

Mr. Jonathan Burgess wrote a play, "The Pride", about bands and it was performed by members of the band with professional actors under his direction. Another band is involved with "Coming Home for Christmas", which is about interaction in the community. We also work with the All-Ireland Fleadh, the Pan-Celtic Festival and the Walled City Tattoo. Our work is focused on challenging prejudice and negativity. We are looking inwards as well as outwards because, as we take risks with engagements, we realise that our stance and reasons must be clearly defined and we lead the debate because we will never lose sight of the fact that preconceived opinion exists in all communities.

We communicate with the media at local and national level to try to balance out coverage of the bands scene. It is difficult because the media focuses on the negatives and leaves out the positives that are less newsworthy to them. Our focus with the bands is to make them aware of their image in the media and their image on social media. In the eight months I have been with them I have had some success and there has been progress in the programme. The attendance at the monthly meetings has increased and we now have 14 bands in the forum, four more than when I started. One of the bands is a highly respected brass band, probably the first interdenominational band in the forum. We have developed training courses for 20 unemployed bandsmen with accredited training on event safety and management to help Mr. James Kee with the Walled City Tattoo. We have also produced a pamphlet with the good relations branch of Derry City Council, encouraging debate and understanding of the band culture. We started a programme on Tuesday of this week with four classes of 16 year old girls in a Catholic college in Greggan.

St. Columb's Park House has also hosted a two-day conference at which the forum supported the bands that are working with other groups in the area. They are developing a joint approach to social, economic and environmental issues. We are encouraging the local bands to engage with the development structures in the areas. We are challenging them to help use their influence with young people.

In tandem with the education programme, we have been very active in taking our message and aims to the public in the short time the project has been ongoing. We have had meetings and made presentations to the organisations identified in our aims. We have been invited to speak to a variety of community and culturally based organisations. In the past four months we have organised and hosted meetings with the Orange Order and the Apprentice Boys and people who are involved in the various parades and commemorations that will take part in the city. The aim is to discuss and create a code of conduct and a set of rules and responsibilities for the participants in the events. This work is very close to completion and we will produce a document and a blueprint for discussion in all areas of the province. These meetings are ground-breaking and the bands forum is a major factor in this effort. Progress has been made on proactive attempts to balance the negative press coverage by showing the work being done by the forum and our links with groups outside the city. We are trying to address the negative images of the bands. We are not saying that all criticism is unfair, but we are trying to create a balance.

In the short-term, the honest and successful portrayal of band related issues, "The Pride", will soon be on show in Sligo where the play will feature at this year's fleadh. One of the bands that did not play in last year's fleadh will also perform in Sligo where we will make presentations on behalf of the bands as part of our process of ongoing engagement.

We have been working with the Cultúrlann in the city as part of our ongoing strategy of helping all communities to move forward. We believe the people involved in the centre are genuine. The cost of our project over two years will be £124,500, which we believe will be the best money the International Fund for Ireland will ever spend.

Mr. Brian Dougherty

I do not intend to speak at length because my colleagues have discussed many of the benefits of the work we are doing to promote good relations in Londonderry. I am the director of St. Columb's Park House Centre for Reconciliation, an organisation based in the Waterside that is involved in a range of peace-building programmes and projects. We are also responsible for co-ordinating the Londonderry Bands Forum under which Mr. Moore is employed.

I will comment briefly on the strategic importance of this type of work we do, its benefits in terms of good relations and the progress we made last year working with Ms Ní Dhochartaigh and the Cultúrlann in building peace in Derry. I was born in 1968 and grew up in the city of Derry. I could not wait to leave the place. As Mr. Burgess outlined in his play, "The Exodus", the whole dynamic of the city was affected by the geographical and demographic split that occurred when the Troubles were at their height. In the past year, more has been done to promote good relations through culture than in the first 15 years after the Good Friday Agreement was signed. The principal reason was the opportunity the UK City of Culture provided to Protestants and Catholics in the city to push boundaries and put their heads above the parapet, as Mr. Kee outlined.

I was greatly frustrated to hear Dr. Richard Haass describe parading as a stumbling block to cementing peace in Northern Ireland. I believe parading and the structures around it offer the key to finding a solution. As Mr. Moore outlined, bands offer the most disciplined and organised structures for young people to engage in their personal development. Northern Ireland has 660 bands in which 30,000 people are involved. The vast majority of band members are young people who have a role to play. The capacity building work Mr. Moore is doing with band leaders provides a wonderful opportunity for them to do so.

The band leaders in loyalist communities should be youth and community workers because they make a significant impact on the ground. The recent flag protests in Northern Ireland continued in parts of Derry city until as late as March last year. One particular protest took place nightly outside Caw, a loyalist area of Derry. Through the work of the Londonderry Bands Forum we encouraged the young people involved in the protests and the leaders who were organising them to consider the possibility of progressing a fledgling band. They came to a meeting of the bands forum at which we discussed with them the possibility of engaging in the fleadh. While their initial reaction was not positive, having listened to their peers, all of whom, unlike me, were bandsman, they eventually decided to give it a go. They put their heart and soul into progressing the Caw band. Having blocked roads in March, the young people led the parade to the Foyle Cup, an international soccer competition, through the city of Londonderry in June. Their band was also one of five bands to play at the Gig Rig during the fleadh in August. To move from such sectarianism, for want of a better word, to expressing their frustration and culture in a more progressive way marked significant progress. This was only possible through the medium that culture provided.

Shortly after the fleadh, a bandsman told me that having been largely marginalised for decades - as a minority community, Protestants are simply tolerated in Londonderry - he felt for the first time in his life that the attitude to him, his culture and his band had changed from tolerance to acceptance. That is a major shift in the city and it demonstrates that it is much more comfortable in its own skin. While the position is not perfect by any means, Protestants feel part of the city for the first time and there is a sense of pride that was not in evidence prior to the cultural revolution in which Me Moore, Mr. Kee and Mr. Burgess have played a major role.

On the issue of leadership, St. Columb's Park House has been fighting consistently through its research to address the hunger in the Protestant community to establish new forms of leadership. There is a real sense that Unionist politicians in the city have let down Protestants who now see band leaders and structures as potentially offering such leadership. In last week's council and European elections more than half of young people in Protestant districts did not bother to vote. This illustrates the need to provide other forms of leadership in the city.

Ms Eibhlín Ní Dhochartaigh

This is essentially a synopsis of what we all do individually and collectively. While listening to Mr. Dougherty, it struck me that we have not taken small steps but made major strides forward. Last year, during the fleadh and various other events, it seemed as if Derry was waiting to blossom. People from all communities had a sense of pride about their city and themselves. There is a confidence that needs to be nurtured and community leadership will be key to doing so.

All the speakers, in their own way, are giving good community leadership. The secret of engagement is to create meaningful projects that work in the community. Such leadership has been lacking for one reason and another and I am not speaking out of turn - it has been stated here and elsewhere - in pointing out that, unfortunately, leadership has been lacking in the Protestant community. I describe the representatives of the Protestant community present today as community leaders because they are the key or secret to progress. Our purpose today is to speak and answer any questions members may have.

Chairman

We appreciate the contributions. Members wish to learn from our guests and, no doubt, make observations and ask questions. I ask that specific questions be directed at the relevant witness as this will make our task easier.

Deputy Frank Feighan

I welcome the delegation. Members have made a number of visits to Northern Ireland. Our visit to Derry earlier this year was incredible because one could see the positive and vibrant effect the fleadh had on the city. The event did not receive adequate attention. As Ms Ní Dhochartaigh correctly noted, it was the occasion of major strides rather than small steps for Derry.

I am looking forward to the witnesses coming to Sligo from 10 to 17 August 2014 and to meeting them. It is very near where I live.

I was at the European elections count in Castlebar last Monday. Behind the count centre is the Mayo Peace Park. We tend to forget our history. If one forgets it, one is doomed to repeat it. Here was a park for the many young Mayo men and women who died in the First World War and Second World War about whom we had totally forgotten. In 2008, the peace park was created but 95% of people in Mayo do not understand this rich history with which we are starting to grapple. It is an issue I am passionate about as I come from Boyle and note the 126 young men from a town with a population of 3,000 who died fighting with the Connaught Rangers. They were totally air-brushed from our history. These are matters into which we must look ourselves to realise where we come from.

What we are discussing here is more of a music festival that brought all traditions together and it must be publicised. It has done huge good work in Derry. Is Belfast ready for a fleadh? While it could be a step too far, it has done incredible things in the north-west region. It needs to be highlighted that it has been so positive. Is Belfast ready? It could be positive, but I ask the experts. While they are not from Belfast, I want to know their opinion.

Chairman

I will take all the members' questions first, which will give the witnesses a chance to reflect on Deputy Feighan's questions and decide who, if anybody, will answer it. It is a challenging question to be fair and, no doubt, people will have an opinion on it.

Deputy Martin Ferris

I welcome the witnesses and thank them for their presentations. I note that this is one of the most positive things that has happened in a very long time. The wider cultural aspect of it has been the fleadh in Derry, the city of culture. It was hugely encouraging that many people travelled from the Twenty-six Counties to the Six Counties to attend the fleadh. More importantly, they had a great time and thought it was very well presented. It broke down a perception that had been built up over decades with the Troubles. It had a huge impact on people.

Mr. Dougherty mentioned 660 bands and the 30,000 young people involved in them. He also made reference to band leaders and said they should be the youth leaders. That is a very good idea. The manipulation of bands for political and sectarian reasons has been a concern to many of us who have been trying to build cross-community relations and create a framework in which people can see others as equals rather than to focus on the labels associated with them. I refer to the role of the Unionist political parties on this. We have a committee here and try to do the best we can. The engagement we have with the Unionist, Protestant, loyalist communities is with groups like this and meeting them. There are seats here for the elected unionist representatives, which they have yet to take up. It does a disservice to everything the witnesses are trying to do. It is disappointing that people who have the mandate to represent their communities fail to avail of it. Having said that, the committee has been to many parts of the Six Counties and to Unionist, loyalist and Nationalist areas. Among the ordinary people who make a difference on the ground, there is a growing mutual respect, which is very encouraging. It is something that needs to be continued.

The debate within Unionist communities on the Irish language and the Irish language Act promised under the St. Andrews Agreement are outstanding issues. Cultural matters will play a huge role in progressing those matters. The witnesses are breaking down barriers every day. Breaking down those barriers creates that mutual respect. Creating that mutual respect leads to the implementation of what was agreed in a coherent and cohesive way. That is something I welcome.

The role of good cultural relations was mentioned. It is excellent that Protestant children are attending the bunscoil and that people can be educated together. You have integration of young people who see each other for what they are - human beings and kids, not labels. That is to be welcomed.

We are legislators and elected representatives from different parties. Some of the witnesses might like to elaborate on our role and the role of those within the Unionist communities. Are the witnesses satisfied with our role and with their role regarding the building of the necessary relationships?

Deputy Brendan Smith

I welcome the group which has made the presentation and apologise for missing it. Deputy Crowe and I were attending a meeting of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade as this meeting commenced. As one who attended the fleadh in Derry last August, I note that it was a great event. There were huge crowds, a great atmosphere and a wide range of activities. It was a great week. I am very familiar with the Fleadh as it was held in Cavan for three years, in which good town I live. The fleadh is not just about music nowadays. There is a huge range of cultural events outside the music arena which adds a very welcome new dimension to the fleadh week. That was very evident in Derry. When one looked at the clár, one did not know where to be there was such a great range of attractive events taking place at the same time.

The Chairman, Deputy McHugh, and I were in Derry some months ago and we met some of the groups. The whole area of cultural activities has the potential to bring people together to a greater extent to work on common interests. How does the city council interact in this regard? It was very much involved the Fleadh as was necessary to provide the necessary infrastructure and human resources to make its hosting feasible. I note that there has been a reconfiguration of local authorities and district councils in Northern Ireland. Do local authorities take a leading role in the promotion of cultural activities?

Regardless of the deficiencies in public administration, whether at national level or local level, there is always room for improvement. Oftentimes the statutory framework has the potential to bring together different groups and to leverage better outcomes and more activity. To my knowledge, Derry City Council has been a rather progressive council over the years. Derry has put the past behind it far quicker than Belfast. Thankfully, we do not hear of violence in Derry for the most part and we have no wish to hear of it. Does the statutory framework and its architecture assist the deputations in their daily work and ongoing activities and in their programmes and hopes for the future? I am sorry I missed the presentation but I will get an opportunity to read it when it is published. From my knowledge of their work the deputations deserve great commendation. I wish them well in the initiatives under way to improve life for all society locally.

Deputy Seán Crowe

I welcome the deputations to the meeting this morning. Festivals, by their nature, should be inclusive rather than exclusive and this is what the deputations have pulled together in respect of the Fleadh Cheoil and the work of its executive committee in the city. People say that if we could have bottled what happened in Derry during that period we could all have benefited from a sup of it.

What will happen now? The city has had this success and the deputations have brought people together. What is next step? What are they looking for in terms of support?

People have spoken of Derry and the surrounding region. I gather access is one difficulty. Should the road infrastructure and tourism be developed to a greater extent? I realise bridges have been built and so on. If the deputations had a magic wand in the morning what would they do in this area?

People have commented on the fact that things are different in the Derry region compared to Belfast. What do the deputations put that down to? Is it that people are talking to and meeting each other? Is it because it is a smaller area and people know each other? Is it a matter of leadership, whether political leadership or leadership from the churches, the community and so on? What is the difference? If the deputations were to send a message to the areas clearly in conflict or where there are difficulties at the moment, what would they say about what has worked for Derry and what they would like to see replicated elsewhere?

What about the financial benefits for businesses in terms of pounds, shillings and pence? Have the deputations outlined the benefits in the submission? Were jobs created? Was there more employment during that period? Has there been associated economic benefits and spin-off benefits?

The fact that it was enjoyable is relevant. Among everyone I know who was involved the common factor was enjoyment. The executive committee pulled all these things together but at the end of the day it was enjoyable. It was not about symbolism, rather it was about all these other things. The most important thing for all the people who took part was that they enjoyed it. Will they come back? Anyone I talked to who travelled to Derry, including people from outside Ireland, was excited. It was talked of as the gig of the year. Where does Derry go from here? Well done to the deputations.

Deputy Seán Conlan

The deputations are welcome. What I find most interesting is the fact that over a 12 month period such change unfolded in the area. It is more an observation than a question. It has been good for us to hear this. What we need to do is figure out how the knowledge and experience the deputations have gained in the past 12 months as well as the changes that have taken place in the city can be harnessed for the rest of Northern Ireland and the Border counties to determine if change can take place in those areas as well. The knowledge and experience gained needs to be tapped into for the wider area. I am keen to see some way that the deputations could be contacted by other communities to ensure the knowledge they have gained over the period is not lost and such that it could be harnessed elsewhere. We need to consider ways to facilitate that, if possible.

Chairman

Do you see what happened here, Ms Ní Dhochartaigh? Your brevity today was a precedent. It was a first and everyone has been very focused. Thank you for that.

Ms Eibhlín Ní Dhochartaigh

It has been useful. I am happy to address the points raised, all of which were valid. I will begin with the comments of Deputy Frank Feighan on Belfast and the Fleadh Cheoil. We had many obstacles. Initially, the fleadh bid was rather public and it was not without its problems. Furthermore, we had to sell the fleadh to people who had never been to the North before. Some people had preconceived ideas about what the fleadh would be like, how difficult it would be for them and how it would not be safe. There were various other obstacles in the way initially which we had to get over. It was a constant hill to climb. We can talk now, just as we should, about how successful it was as an enjoyable event and for community building as well as the various other tourism benefits and so on.

Reference was made to Belfast. I suppose those in Belfast must do all the groundwork. They have to do their homework and get their communities to buy into it. All I can say is that if there is a will, there is a way. I see no reason why Belfast should not host the fleadh or anywhere else in the North for that matter. Derry has done it. It is not rocket science. People simply need to have the will to engage. They must have their communities behind them and get community leaders to drive the process forward.

We focused our thinking, as Deputy Ferris noted, in terms of music. There was a major focus on that, although it was only one of the vehicles in terms of community engagement that has worked and that does work. We have an ongoing project. Although the fleadh seems to have been the highlight of what we did during the year there were other community engagement projects leading up to the fleadh. One such event was Singing the Bridge from which we are about to embark on a substantial three year programme with an international music organisation, Musicians without Borders. I am unsure whether the committee members have heard of it. We have done work in areas coming out of conflict using music as a vehicle for engagement. There is also a programme to train community leaders. We have seen what the bands forum leaders are doing. People see them as community leaders and that is what they are. The idea is to target such people in a meaningful project using music as a vehicle for engagement and training.

I will push on because Mr. Mac Niallais and others may wish to comment at this stage. Our engagement with the city council has been very positive. The fleadh is a huge animal. It is not the small event it used to be when it took place in small villages in Ireland. It is a major event and it cannot work without the support of the local council. We had all of that. Our dealings with Sharon O'Connor, the chief executive, were very good. We had the support and the back up of the various committees at our disposal and this was without a doubt positive and helpful. Mr. Mac Niallais may wish to comment on some of these points.

Mr. Donncha Mac Niallais

I will comment on some or all of them. There was an issue around the designation of Derry as the United Kingdom city of culture which created problems in some people's minds, although personally I could not really understand it. One of the other major issues in terms of bringing the fleadh to Derry was that it is a city. Some people took the view that it was too big and consequently that it would not work there.

We saw off that kind of argument. I am surprised that others did not touch on the fact that the day before the Fleadh started there were 20,000 Protestant loyalists marching through the city of Derry. When we got the bid for the Fleadh we were aware that would happen and said we had to take it on board. It had to be part of the engagement with people in the Unionist community. The last thing we wanted was petrol bombs flying back and forth the day before the Fleadh was due to open. It was the quietest Apprentice Boys of Derry commemoration in years, which was not a coincidence. That was due to a lot of hard work by people across the city, on both sides of the river.

It is for people in Belfast to make a call. It has to be done on the basis of being as inclusive as possible. The Fleadh is regarded as an economic generator. It can generate millions of pounds or euro for local economies. We could also consider it as a peace generator. That was part of its role in Derry. Senator Ó Murchú touched on that magnificently in Derry.

Politicians have a very powerful role in society, which can be negative or positive. For the most part, Derry politicians have been very positive. I speak from personal experience in my engagement with William Hay, MLA, who represents the Democratic Unionist Party, DUP, in the city and is Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly. He has been very positive across the board and it is regrettable that he is retiring. He will be missed. I hope whoever succeeds him in representing the Unionist community will be as positive as he has been since the Assembly got up and running.

The council was positive. People in Derry would be quite critical of the council’s engagement with communities. We are the people who elect the councillors. They will be increasingly held to account. It remains to be seen how the new super councils will kick in. The cultural drive will come from local communities. The council has only to facilitate what the communities want to do.

Mr. Brian Dougherty

Deputy Ferris asked about leadership and Unionist engagement. Although bands culture was an integral part of my life as I grew up I have never been in a band. Mr. Moore is in a better position to talk about that. There are many misconceptions and myths about what bands represent. The media focus on Twadell Avenue last year accentuated those myths. The Parades Commission is at pains to point out that there are 4,500 parades in Northern Ireland every year, of all types, not just loyalist parades and it has to make a determination on less than 5% of those. Between 95% and 98% of what bands do is locally-based, village musical competitions. They are like sports competitions, where the interest is simply to be better than the band from the next village. The majority of them are not politicised. For example, the Newbuildings band is going to the Fleadh in August. It has two bands, with a combined membership of approximately 100, of which approximately 50 or 60 are under the age of 21. They practise 52 weeks a year. There is no youth club in Newbuildings that could cater for that number of people over the year.

The bands have a major role in building confidence in those young people. Most of those attracted to them are the most marginalised in Protestant society. Some of the figures in recent reports about educational under-attainment among Protestant boys show it is crucial to maximise the potential of this type of structure. Mr. Moore is involved in a capacity-building training programme in schools. It is ironic that we find it easier to get into the Catholic than the Protestant schools. That perception exists within many elements of Protestant society. The bandsmen and bandmasters are not perfect but they are the most progressive group of people I have ever worked with. I have a good relationship with them. We have an opportunity to build on that.

I am as frustrated as the committee members at the lack of consistency in Unionist representation at meetings such as this. Our politicians in the city have been progressive in many ways. Derry has always had a history of communication and dialogue from the mid-1990s. That ethos and mentality made it easier to sell the concept of Unionist engagement in the Fleadh because the groundwork had been done. As Mr. Mac Niallais said, William Hay was at the forefront of much of that work. Unfortunately, it is not consistent across the board in the city. We are trying to work towards achieving that. In the run-up to the Fleadh the Unionist politicians were slightly wary of whether to support it. It came to a point where the bands said, "To hell with you" – excuse my language – "we are going to do this". That opened the floodgates for the broader Protestant loyalist community to endorse it because these were respected, credible leaders in their community. The majority of Protestants in the city did engage, they went across to the city centre and enjoyed it. That had an economic impact because up to the opening of the Fleadh the local bars and shops were wary of whether to endorse it. When the bands endorsed it they felt free to endorse it and get into the mood in the city.

The strategic part of Derry City Council has always been very progressive. We did research in 2005 that indicated otherwise but in the years preceding that there was a huge push by the council’s good relations department to ensure the minority community was fully engaged in all forms of good relations.

Mr. Derek Moore

I will speak from the bands' point of view and stay outside the strategic issues others have discussed. Participation in the Fleadh was not as big a deal for bands as others might think. Within the city and within other cultures there might have been questions about why they did it. Two of the bands at the Fleadh have been coming to the Limerick International Band Festival for the past 15 years.

They have received a great reception. At times in the North when we could march nowhere, we were more than accepted in Limerick and Cork.

Reference was made to bands in Belfast. Some of the bands around Belfast also go to Limerick to play. People do not realise that bands are pretty insular. We are very lucky down in the city - the 14 bands in the forum are really lucky to have me because I have the only full-time position in the country and I am at the end of a phone. Most of my life in a band has been spent going home from work and working for the band then, working with other people. There was never anyone one could telephone on a Monday morning at ten o'clock to try to sort out problems and to pass on information. It is far easier to deal through a central person or a central organisation. The bands forums are not as strong in Belfast as in the rest of the country. There are so many bands in Belfast and it is much like a football team in that people want their best players so they keep to themselves all the time. There is no huge structure among bands. In the case of two or three bands in the Village area of Belfast there would be more animosity between those bands than there would be between them and their Catholic neighbours anywhere else. That is the sort of mentality around Belfast.

On the issue of helping out in Belfast, Brian Dougherty and I have spoken recently to an outreach worker from Sinn Féin in the city who came to visit us. We stressed to him that perhaps the key lies with them engaging with the bands in Belfast and not the other way around. We feel that they could exert more influence around some of the trouble spots. How can they say that marching bands are a problem in Belfast when they do not say that in Derry? It is a perception. We feel that maybe Sinn Féin has more power than they realise or are prepared to use in those situations. They could use us as an example. We work with the schools and we are trying to take the demonisation out of being in a band. We use the analogy that young Catholics going to school with musical instruments are musicians while young Protestants with flutes are in a band and they are not classed as musicians. From the perspective of the bands it is not a big deal because it is about the music. We tend to stay away from the political end of things. Some bands around Belfast and other places are politically motivated by sections of the community but on the whole, we do not practice for 50 weeks of the year and spend £30,000 to £100,000 in gear to go out and annoy people; it is just too big for that.

Mr. James Kee

Deputy Crowe, I think, asked a question that has not been answered about what is happening in Derry now. The good news is that the party goes on. We have just come down from a very successful pan-Celtic festival in which we all participated. We have had the jazz festival and the Clipper yacht race again this year. I am glad to say that the walled city tattoo is back due to the success of last year. The sun shines some days up in Derry so the show goes on. It is evident that resources are not as plentiful as last year so we have to cut our cloth to suit. In view of the work there will be a lasting legacy in Derry city.

The question of Belfast keeps coming up. We were asked if we could leave here today and go to Belfast and maybe sort out the issue there. Perhaps the reason for the question is whether the PUL community would be included. I do not know the answer to that question. I wish to be associated with Derek Moore's remarks that we should take small steps at a time rather than trying to sort things out overnight. We have a template in Derry city that can work elsewhere but it is a case of identifying those leaders in the community who are prepared to take an odd knock and who have an influence. The bands forum and places like An Cultúrlann can provide that leadership.

Mr. Jonathan Burgess

Our issue is about sustainability and it is a question of how to make this sustainable. We had a great year last year as part of the UK city of culture. We got to do things that were bigger and better than we could ever have imagined. We could not have achieved the scale of events such as the Tattoo with 13,000 people over four nights. We could not have that scale without the UK city of culture accolade. It is a question of how to get that to filter on. We do not have a massive population to support arts and culture activities and we have to look to the public purse for funding. The committee members will know better than anyone the strain being put on the public purse because of the recession and recovery. We have to line up in the queue. I am sure the city did very well economically and in the number of bed nights for specific events but we are not privy to those figures. It would be nice to see the level of funding and the desire to create a legacy to be built on and to continue in the future and that those events can be made and sustained. From the point of view of community relations what has happened in the city is that the people in what is a fairly small Protestant community within the city, know each other fairly well and act cohesively quite well together. The city council has tried to drag people in to facilitate stories and to tell stories. They have been quite proactive for which their officers should be congratulated because it has resulted in a good community relations outlook. I work with the telling of the single identity stories. I always come back to the point that in terms of keeping the Protestant community engaged it is creating the opportunities for single identity work whereby we are working with people to try to establish their story and to identify their culture and to manifest it in the public forum for everyone to see and to appreciate, instead of people being part of a culture which is reactive, with people having cultural positions which are in spite of other people as opposed to being actually what one is. Once people feel comfortable enough within their own community - by that I mean the entire community - to represent their own opinion then that is when the genuine peace-building begins because that is when they tell their story and they are heard and it is received and it is not a scary thing to have opinions which are from a cultural perspective. We do not all have to go into the middle and agree that beige is the one colour that we all like. That is my opinion.

Ms Lisa Anderson

As a relatively new girl on the block, although I have been here for 25 years and I am married to a Belfast man with a long history, one of the things that struck me during the Fleadh and prior to it and having been here, is that in the past a lot of the symbols we saw during the Fleadh were symbols that have been used by the media and politicians and various other people as tools to divide people. Whenever culture is on show and has been on show, it has been something that shows the difference in people. One culture is different from another because of this, that and the other. As Jonathan Burgess says, one does not necessarily have to go to the middle ground. What the Fleadh has done and what we do in our work is to provide people with an opportunity to show their culture. On a personal and psychological level, people are very interested in their own identity. Culture gives people an opportunity to identify their own culture and also to be proud of it and to celebrate it.

At one of the meetings a discussion took place and one of the band members said that at the end of the day they were all musicians and they love to show off. They all wanted to have the opportunity to show what they could do. As Derek Moore said they practice and they spend a lot of money so they are passionate about it. At another meeting it was very clear that because of the symbols present in the room, such as the shirts being worn and key-rings, the conversation began. At the end of the meeting, all those symbols had really disappeared.

From my personal experience, that has not happened very often, because those types of symbols are very much the things that take precedent. In fact, what people say is often regarded as secondary to the symbols they display. During those meetings, however, I found that it did not matter what tattoo somebody had or what they were wearing; they were talking about something they were passionate about in a way that was not offensive to anybody else. The lesson we can take from that is that people want to have an opportunity to investigate and celebrate their own identity, and they are very passionate about it. Culture and music provide a space to do that in a way which has not been done in the past, in a positive rather than a negative way.

Chairman

Thank you, Ms Anderson. Does Ms Ní Dhochartaigh wish to make any concluding remarks?

Ms Eibhlín Ní Dhochartaigh

Thank you, Chairman. Reference was made to infrastructural issues, problems with job creation and the continuing problem of poverty. These are ongoing issues and are greater than we around this table can solve. All we can do is work within our communities to bring a positive sense of belonging to people. I sit on the board of the Arts Council of Northern Ireland and one of the major elements of its strategy for the coming years is the question of how to engage with impoverished communities and bring the arts to them. There are aspects of the arts that are very important in people's lives. The fleadh, for example, has played a role in facilitating community engagement and peace-building, but it also simply an enjoyable event. People living in areas of poverty need some of that in their life. It is what we are about and will continue to be about.

Chairman

I thank all of the delegates for their contributions. We have learned some interesting things today which will add value to the committee's work. Gabhaim comhghairdeas le Donncha Mac Niallais as an obair iontach atá á dhéanamh aige maidir leis an teanga. We appreciate his observations on the language and wish him well in his work. As discussed, there is the outstanding issue of an Irish language Act and so on. Mr. Mac Niallais should feel free to contact us if he ever wishes to discuss that or any other issue.

Deputy Feighan and I attended an event hosted by the City of London Corporation in the London Guildhall during President Higgins's State visit. I am not sure whether the delegates have read or heard the speech the President made on that occasion but it was a phenomenal tribute to the work they have been doing in Derry in the past year or so. We will send them a copy of the speech, which offered real insight into the historical connection between the City of London Corporation and the city of Derry, which was the genesis of Londonderry. It is part of the unique history of the city. It was a very powerful contribution and, as I said, an acknowledgment of the work being done by the delegates.

There have been several high-level political visits to the city in recent times. President Higgins was there in March last year, as the delegates will recall. I hope that level of engagement will continue in the future. I support the comments regarding Willie Hay, and not just because he was born in Kilmacrennan in my own county of Donegal. We take pride in the great work he is doing there.

Reference was made to finding a language that will help us to move from tolerance to acceptance. That is something we all want to see. We do not want communities feeling vulnerable and in danger of losing their identity or part of their culture. The delegates are seeking to celebrate the different cultures and identities in Northern Ireland and create a safe environment and space for that purpose.

When we travel to the North we always hear people from different groups saying that the peace process, which is still in the embryonic stage, is very much a case of two steps forward and one step back. We are delighted to hear a new phrase today, which is that Derry is striding forward. We wish the delegates well in their work and will be happy to assist them at any stage.

Sitting suspended at 12.15 p.m. and resumed at 12.20 p.m.

Chairman

I welcome Ms Wendy Langham from the East Belfast Partnership. My initial contact with the partnership was through Mr. Maurice Kincaid, whom I met in Boston, and from whom I obtained a good insight into the work the partnership does. The committee is familiar with the cultural aspect of the partnership's work. For the information of members, the East Belfast Partnership is a social partnership with community, statutory, political and business members dedicated to regeneration of east Belfast. It was formed in 1995 and given responsibility to encourage stakeholder organisations to work together to develop and implement plans for the social, economic, environmental and cultural regeneration of east Belfast. I am familiar with the work the partnership does in respect of the C. S. Lewis festival. We look forward to other hearing about the other projects the partnership has under way and the impact these are having not only on the development of east Belfast but also on that of the city in general. As Ms Langham is aware, our earlier discussion focused on the role of arts and culture in enhancing reconciliation. The East Belfast Partnership has a strong focus on cultural regeneration and perhaps she might explain this in greater detail.

Before she makes her presentation, I wish to advise Ms Langham that she is protected in respect of her evidence to the committee. However, if she is directed by the committee to cease making remarks in respect of a particular matter and continues to do so, she will be entitled thereafter to only a qualified privilege in respect of those remarks. She is directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and is asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, she should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Ms Wendy Langham

I thank the committee for inviting me to make a presentation on the regeneration and development of east Belfast being undertaken by the East Belfast Partnership. For a city of its size, location and relatively short history, Belfast has given the world more than its fair share of remarkable people. In the context of Belfast as a whole, it is in the east that the brightest stars have risen. I will now refer to some of the projects in which the partnership has been involved and which it is currently undertaking in east Belfast.

I always like to show this first slide because it reminds me very much of the work with which I am involved in the context of establishing a new greenway in east Belfast. It illustrates the power of landscape and good design. I do not know if members are familiar with the location depicted in the slide but I will comment further on it later. To date, no one to whom the slide has been shown has guessed the location correctly.

East Belfast is an area of need. It is quite similar to other deprived urban locations in Belfast and elsewhere throughout Northern Ireland. Listed on the second slide are some of the factors we are trying to address by means of the work of the partnership. I was recently obliged to give a presentation on C. S. Lewis to a group of Americans. I carried out a Google search in respect of east Belfast and the third slide shows the images which appeared. Said images are not indicative of the east Belfast I see in the course of my work. The 2014 edition of the Rough Guide to Ireland states, "In East Belfast, across the river beyond the great cranes of the Harland and Wolff shipyard, lies suburbia and very little of interest apart from Stormont ... it is inadvisable to go visit". That is something which the partnership is working very hard to address and I am of the view that we have made good inroads in that regard.

The partnership's stated mission is to make east Belfast a better place. The projects in which we are involved are very much focused on that. As a result of the time constraints, I will limit myself to discussing the projects relating to arts development, the Connswater Community Greenway - which I am heading up - the Holywood Arches plan and tourism. The next slide illustrates some of the work we have done on the main arterial routes in east Belfast. This work includes new shop fronts, pocket parks and trying to tackle the dereliction in the heart of the area. The projects in this regard have been very successful and they have helped to change the look of the area in the past couple of years.

The Giro d'Italia cycle race recently went through inner east Belfast. Part of our role in this regard was to work with the different communities along the route in order to try to get them to engage with the race. The members of the communities in question would not usually engage with cycling but we tried to encourage them to work towards welcoming tens of thousands of people to our city. We had a brilliant and successful day when the race came through.

I take inspiration for the work I do from the role model project of the High Line in New York, which is depicted by the green strip in the image on the right in the next slide. The High Line is a greenway which was developed along the route of the old railway that used to run through Manhattan. One the right had side of the slide is a picture of the River Lagan, beside which is depicted a sort of green footprint. The latter shows the scale of the project I am currently leading, namely, the Connswater Community Greenway. We have seen how river regeneration has worked in many other cities. I am aware that there are greenways in the south of Ireland as a result of discussions I had with members of the Committee for Regional Development, who visited the Great Western Greenway in Mayo.

The problems we face in the context of developing the greenway at Connswater include the poor quality of the water in the rivers, combined sewer outfalls and tidal surges. The picture in the top left quadrant of the next slide shows the sandbags we were obliged to put in place in January when a tidal surge occurred. I am sure such surges also occurred in rivers here during the same period. The picture in the top right quadrant shows the flooding which seems to have become an annual event in the city. The greenway we are developing is based around the rivers but it also includes a significant integrated flood alleviation scheme. It will also comprise a 9 km linear park, 30 new bridges or crossings, 16 km of foot and cycle paths, tourist and heritage trails, signage and a new C. S. Lewis civic square. In addition, it will serve 26 schools and colleges. These are the key outputs they will benefit at least 41,000 who live alongside the rivers relating to the greenway.

While the greenway is an investment in the physical environment, we are also seeking social outcomes. Our work does not just relate to making the place look better. What we are trying to achieve is very much based on promoting community safety and cohesion, creating a stronger and safer community and developing a welcoming place in which people feel comfortable. The latter has come across strongly in the context of the community consultation relating to the project in which we have been involved since 2005. People want a place for their families, a place where they feel comfortable, a place they can call their own.

We have worked with people in the context of supporting community learning and creating opportunities. This is aimed at assisting them in improving their quality of life.

One of the other key drivers we are looking at is promoting well-being, providing places for recreation and exercise resulting in healthier and more active people and communities. This slide shows a combination of pictures of people engaged in activities. We have community gardens. We have taken children to show them good examples of growing and from where plants come. They did not know from where potatoes or carrots come. That exercise has been very successful. We have just completed phase one, which took place in Victoria Park. I assume the members are familiar with Belfast but the Sydenham bypass is the road that can be seen at the edge of the top of the map, which is quite close to the George Best Belfast City Airport. We have recently completed an area in Orangefield.

One of the key things we have done at this stage is put in new path networks. We have put in a new bridge that links east Belfast through to the new Harbour Estate. Much of our work is about linking through to the Titanic Quarter, linking to the city centre and linking the communities together. Over the years the rivers that have run through east Belfast have acted as another interface and have separated communities. Part of what we are doing is connecting people back together, connecting people and places. That is why we have all our new improved bridges and crossings. The next slide shows pictures of the bridge opening, which opened on 4 April 2014. We tried to get 2,014 people to cross the bridge at the opening; we got 2,287 people and we were quite pleased with that number. Since then there has been more than 46,000 crossings of the bridge. I have not been counting the crossings but we have one of those counters in place and I can daily log in to check the average use of the bridge. This bridge connects east Belfast to the Harbour Estate which links through to the Titanic Quarter, which had never been connected previously. In terms of creating history, we are making significant changes in east Belfast. It is the Sam Thompson Bridge. Sam Thompson was a playwright. He worked in a shipyard. He was probably best known for a play he produced called "Over the Bridge" which very much tackles sectarianism within the shipyard. Through a public vote process the bridge was named Sam Thompson Bridge.

The next slide shows an area in Orangefield Park where we have extended the park but we have also moved the path of the river - the project has involved literally moving the paths of rivers and building bridges. We moved the path of the river right to become a central feature of the park and extended the park to make a much better amenity. The black line in the top picture is where the river used to flow beside those houses - they suffered from the threat of annual flooding and were uninsurable. This gives members an idea of the new pathways of the rivers now in place. The construction site is still not open but we have planted the areas adjacent to it and already it is looking fantastic.

Under the next phase of the project we are putting a new civic square into the heart of east Belfast, an outdoor event space. It is called the C.S. Lewis Square and I will talk a little more about C.S. Lewis shortly. This slide shows a cycle cafe and we have plans for such a cafe on the square and also for a new information centre. It will mean that people visiting east Belfast will have a place to start their journey and can find out all about the tourist product there. We have held two years of successful arts festivals in east Belfast and there are plans to hold a further festival in August.

Last November was the 50th anniversary of C.S. Lewis's death and to recognise that we held a C.S. Lewis festival. C.S. Lewis came from east Belfast, which not many people, and certainly not many people in east Belfast, knew. We had 26 different events, many of them local, based in the city centre, working with schools and libraries and it was a very successful event. We also produced our new C.S. Lewis Trail and I have brought a few of these with me and they glow in the dark. It tells the story of east Belfast and C.S. Lewis as an east Belfast man.

I like this picture that is now displayed because it shows the potential. The dots on the map are the C.S. Lewis based organisations throughout the world. What is interesting is that obviously we do not have any but we have C.S. Lewis and that shows the potential. We recently talked to representatives of the C.S. Lewis Institute who visited Belfast about how to develop our links with C.S. Lewis and then with the other organisations.

We have just launched an arts strategy for east Belfast. This is on the basis that only 4% of Belfast's money that goes towards arts comes to the east of the city. There was a gap very much for us to start building the product around art in east Belfast. We are looking at a new arts centre and we have plans to bring in arts officers and develop that product in east Belfast.

This is my second last slide. I always liked this picture because it reminds me very much of the people of east Belfast who are definitely the independent spirted type, with a strong work ethic and ambitious. By celebrating the people and the characters we know, whether it is the yardmen or the literary legends who are the artistic heroes, we have the opportunity to capture the imagination and bring visitors to east Belfast and also to celebrate our own achievements and our inspirational potential.

On the opening of Titanic Belfast, we tried to recreate the picture in the top left hand corner of the slide and to celebrate the people from east Belfast and their role in the building of ships and the Titanic. We organised a community activity. We asked people to dress as yardmen, which, as the members can see, surprisingly, they did. They might see a few who they recognise in the front of the picture, Sammy Douglas - I do not know if any of the members knows him. He is in the middle in the front of the picture. Dan Gordon is also there. Well over 1,000 yardmen did a yardmen cycle and walk and raised £23,000 for bowel cancer. For me that shows the strength of character and the strength of the participation of the people of east Belfast in getting together to celebrate but also to do something positive and to give back. That is type of project and the sorts of activities in which I am involved.

To return to the first slide that showed the landscape, for me, the power of landscape to tell the stories is very important. The first image is from the Famine memorial centre in the financial district in New York. Throughout the development of the greenway, like many projects, we have been very ambitious. I want it to be like the High Line in New York. I want great public art and I want it to become a destination. For me, it is a reminder that we have to aim high because only by aiming high we can really achieve our full potential.

Chairman

I thank Ms Wendy Langham for that presentation. I open the discussion to members and I call Deputy Feighan.

Deputy Frank Feighan

I thank Ms Wendy Langham for her presentation on behalf of the East Belfast Partnership. The regeneration team have done a great deal of work. We have been to visit the Skainos Centre in Newtownards Road a number of times and have been very encouraged by and delighted at the work that is being done there.

Chairman

Apologies for interrupting but is the Skainos Centre the answer to the original question?

Ms Wendy Langham

No, Chairman. That is the financial centre in downtown, New York.

Chairman

Is it the little building in the picture?

Ms Wendy Langham

No. The first picture shows the roof of that building.

Chairman

Okay.

Ms Wendy Langham

Apologies, I was not clear about that. Skainos has a lovely green wall though.

Chairman

I thought it was the original site of the Skainos Centre.

Ms Wendy Langham

No. The picture shows the top of that centre in New York.

Chairman

Apologies to Deputy Feighan. He can now continue.

Deputy Frank Feighan

I have walked around east Belfast or west Belfast quite a bit.

The greenway is an incredible project. I congratulate those involved. It is the way forward. We are embracing greenways in this country and they are hugely successful. Is it intended to create more greenways across the city of Belfast in order to link one in with another? I agree that once such a project is started, people will see how successful it is and will want more. People look for 30 miles or 40 miles of greenway but I have always said that it is important to get just 5 miles and then people will see how successful it is and more can be done. It is important to link the various traditions in Belfast, across Northern Ireland and across the island of Ireland.

Deputy Seán Conlan

I concur with the point about the importance of having high ambitions. The High Line in New York shows how imagination can show off part of a city people do not normally visit in large numbers. A greenway could have a hugely beneficial impact on a city. I wish those involved well in their work. Greenways have worked well elsewhere and there is no reason for them not to work equally well in Belfast. The example mentioned has been incredibly successful.

Deputy Martin Ferris

I thank the witnesses for the presentation. I commend the work they are trying to do and the efforts they are making to make the city a more welcoming place. Reference was made to deprivation and poverty and the perception that it would be inadvisable to visit certain areas. Is there a difference between east Belfast, west Belfast and North Belfast in terms of deprivation, poverty and unemployment and what are the outworkings of that?

Would it be fair to say that an investment programme as is envisaged, as well as a job creation programme, is necessary to turn the situation around? The media perception is based on the conflict around flags which is concentrated in the east Belfast area. If one promotes an area in a different light and tries to end deprivation and create employment that would provide a mechanism by which one could remedy existing problems. The promotion used by the witnesses is very welcome and will change perceptions.

Deputy Seán Crowe

The witnesses are welcome. A number of things were mentioned. Deputy Feighan mentioned visiting the Skainos Centre. One is struck when one goes up the Newtownards Road by the number of abandoned shops. It was said that the area was cleaned up for the Giro d'Italia. One of the success stories in places such as Galway are pop-up shops used by artists and others. Has that been considered in order to bring life to the area? Whatever about going to the area during the day it is depressing at night and not very welcoming. I have not seen the area since the Giro d'Italia but such an approach could be something to discuss with the local authority and others. Perhaps something could be done with the goodwill of the Governments as the road is the main spine into east Belfast and if it is rundown and shops are closed then one could ask why one would visit it. The Rough Guide to Ireland conclusion that it is inadvisable to visit the area is understandable. When was the report written?

Ms Wendy Langham

We first discovered it in 2008 but it was in the latest version which is from 2013.

Deputy Seán Crowe

There was some concern at one stage because following the flags protest there seemed to be a shift from the murals becoming more inclusive. Is there an update in that regard? What are the witnesses trying to do? Reference was made to C.S. Lewis, the writer of the Narnia series. Is there reference to him in the murals? The question could be asked about where one would bring people with an interest in such matters. It could be a welcome development if one could see characters from the books depicted in murals in the area.

The river generation project is exciting. Local authorities and others are involved. Reference was made to the importance of having an inclusive space that families could call their own. It is important that it would be safe along the river. Has the inclusion of activities been considered, for example, placing exercise machines along the banks? Allotments are very popular in Britain and Ireland. Has that aspect of land use been considered? They encourage people to grow their own plants but it is also activity which means more people will be about and that makes people feel more comfortable. I wish the witnesses well. They have a considerable task ahead of them in terms of things that need to be done but change is evident. We were all impressed with the Skainos Centre, the tent and shared space, which is attracting visitors.

There was reference to people visiting the area. Is there accommodation that would help to build on the C. S. Lewis theme? When we were in the Short Strand area there was talk about linking it to the area across the river in the Titanic Quarter but it is difficult to get there from the Short Strand. There is no bridge that links the areas. I do not think anyone from the Short Strand area even worked in the Titanic Quarter but they could still see the shipyards. It was a case of looking in rather than being part of it. Are there proposals for development to build a linkage bridge along that stretch?

Deputy Brendan Smith

I thank Ms Langham for her positive contribution, outlining the potential for development and the positive picture for east Belfast which is important as well. The general commentary on the development that has taken place so far in the Titanic Quarter, for example, is that very few employment opportunities have been created for the local population. Has that improved in any way in recent times or is there a likelihood that it would? Are there specific training programmes under way to ensure that one has within the local community people with the requisite skills to take up whatever employment opportunities there may be?

In the financial services centre area of Dublin the community was very well supported, for example, in the development of child care services, by major local companies based in the area. The companies took it on as part of their corporate responsibility. Major businesses supported local community initiatives. That brought to the fore the value of the employment. Unfortunately, in the area in question very few members of the local community gained employment in the companies but it gave a certain ownership of the businesses there to the local community. That is an area that could be targeted for the potential benefit of the businesses that are sited there in addition to benefitting the local community. I wish the witnesses well with the regeneration project.

It is absolutely necessary and would be a great message to get out not just to our community but internationally also.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

I thank Ms Langham for her presentation, which was excellent. I visited east Belfast recently and I intend returning shortly, but I am most interested in what is happening with education in east Belfast.

Ms Wendy Langham

I thank the members for their questions. The first question Deputy Feighan asked was about the links with the other greenways and plans to expand. Our greenway is 9 km in length, but that is 16 km of cycle and walkways. We intersect the Comber greenway, which is an existing greenway that runs through east Belfast and is now connected through to the Titanic Quarter and the city. That is key for us. We are building our new civic square at the intersection point, so linking to the Titanic Quarter and the city centre is very important.

The Department for Regional Development, DRD, roads section has just set up a new cycling unit in Belfast and we are very keen to work with them about expanding and linking to other parts of the city. Also, the design team that worked with us initially has been working with the Shankill partnership, and I know they have plans for a Shankill greenway. I am glad to say we have got the best greenway, however, because we have got the rivers, which make it unique and special, but we have learned a good deal. We have used legislation like the public path creation orders to acquire land. We have been working at this for a number of years so we are keen to help other parts of the city learn from the lessons we have learned. It has been an incredibly big project to deliver and we have had a few bumps along the road. Therefore, we would like to be able to use some of our experience and try to develop that elsewhere.

Key for us in east Belfast is playing our part as part of a city. It is not just about making east Belfast great. We want east Belfast to be very well-connected to the rest of Belfast and also to be a place people from other parts of Belfast visit. We are not very good at travelling around Belfast and getting to know other parts of the city. One of our intentions is that we bring different people into east Belfast, not just tourists but people from throughout Belfast.

Deputy Conlan has been to the High Line. It is now the number three tourist attraction in New York in an area that was not visited much previously and it has shown what this type of project can do in terms of creating a destination, changing pace and bringing people to it.

Deputy Ferris asked about the deprivation and the poverty in east and west Belfast. I would say that east Belfast is no worse or better than parts of west Belfast. We have a huge disparity in east Belfast between wealthy people and the less wealthy. Through projects like the greenway we are trying to reduce some of the social inequalities. The different projects we are involved in are very much looking at health and addressing the physical environment and also community cohesion. Deprivation is made up of a number of different factors but I know that the physical environment and poor health contribute to our deprivation statistics.

As a partnership, when we looked at what had been achieved over a ten year period, what was disappointing for us as an organisation is that the areas originally deprived were still as deprived following that decade of investment and work. We have never led on a project of this scale in this part of the city. The project is ambitious. It is a £43 million project, and growing, but we believe it will have some effect over the longer term in terms of the deprivation because it goes through the most disadvantaged wards in the city.

The Deputy asked about bringing people to east Belfast. We have just undertaken a place branding exercise because we know people may be put off coming to east Belfast, especially if they Google east Belfast and come up with the images I showed the members. We worked very hard on developing it as a destination for tourists and we are about to launch a new brand for the area called EastSide, which will encompass what we believe is a very strong product that will be useful for people who live there but also in terms of helping tourists understand our C.S. Lewis, Van Morrison and George Best tours as well as the other strong products we have to offer. Trails are very important for us in terms of what we are doing along the greenway also, and we know from work Queens University is doing for us that we can get an economic return by investing in that type of product. It is hoped that the C.S. Lewis Square, the public art and creating a welcoming place people can come to will help us overcome some of the barriers people face when visiting.

Deputy Conlan referred to abandoned shops. Newtownards Road has been a challenge. We had a Newtownards Road 2012 project which is now called the Newtownards Road 2020 project because, unfortunately, some of the things we intended to do by 2012 for the opening of Titanic Belfast remain, but we have made a good deal of progress. We recognise that we need more people living on the arterial routes. Many of the small shops are no longer viable and we are looking at clustering. We are looking again at the living over the shop grant. We have bought many of the vacant sites. We have put in pocket parks and are waiting for those to be developed. We have plans. We have had some pop-up businesses but in terms of building in Civic Square, our organisation has a property development company and we have just completed a development plan for the Holywood Arches, which we are marketing heavily to attract new business into that area. We have bought many of the properties. We are looking at urban development grants and various opportunities to attract businesses into the area. We are told property prices will rise along the greenway, and by us making a significant investment in the area, we believe we will sustain many of the existing businesses that are struggling, but also we have the ability to attract other businesses into the area over time.

Somebody asked about the outdoor gyms. We have two outdoor gyms on the greenway already installed in the two areas members saw were already developed. We are working with Belfast City Council and others on a programme of activities. We want the space to be animated and well used, not just for a festival but throughout the year, including night time. We have installed lighting on the entire route. We want it open and lit. In the past we have closed our parks once dusk arrives; they were dawn to dusk parks. We have changed the way we are looking at this process. We want an open greenway that is accessible and useable 24 hours a day, seven days a week where people feel safe. That is what we are hoping to deliver.

We have started community gardens and very much want to consider the community groups allotments idea in the parks as well as along the green spaces on the way. The allotments may not be labour intensive but the community gardens, while they are very successful, are very labour intensive.

This simply is because of the type of people and groups that seek to use them and which require continual support.

Deputy Brendan Smith then asked about the employment opportunities and training programmes linked to the Titanic Quarter in the private sector and the local businesses. We definitely could do more in the North, especially in east Belfast, where we tend to rely on the smaller employers with whom we have worked for a long time. Employment initiatives have been linked both to the Titanic Quarter and through the social clauses we have in the contract for the delivery of the greenway. Some of these have been harder to deliver then we had envisaged such as the clauses on apprenticeships and trainees on site. We may have underestimated the amount of work we need to put in to make these happen and to make sure that the employers are delivering on them. From our side, local people are working in the Titanic Quarter and work in Bombardier and various organisations throughout east Belfast. However, this is ongoing work that must continue and I do not believe we have tapped into the private sector and the bigger companies located right on the periphery of east Belfast in respect of their corporate social responsibility and how they can engage with us, not simply for a once-off contribution to the festival but on a more ongoing basis. If members have ideas on how we might do this, it would be very useful.

I am unsure whether I have answered everybody's questions.

Chairman

Perhaps Ms Langham might respond to the question on education.

Ms Wendy Langham

I apologise to Senator Jim D'Arcy; I did not ignore that on purpose.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

Ms Langham probably does not know where I am coming from in this regard. While it probably is not part of her brief, she might wish to comment. She mentioned Narnia and C.S. Lewis and we have Carlingford Lough, which is the site of Narnia. Consequently, one could link up the two with the Narrow Water Bridge.

Chairman

It could be a cross-Border allocation.

Ms Wendy Langham

Excellent.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

It genuinely is something to think about.

Ms Wendy Langham

On education, we have had recent closures of some schools and another closure, that of Orangefield High School, is about to happen this summer. We have some of the worst educational attainment figures throughout Belfast. We are hoping that a new super primary school will be provided in east Belfast and there are discussions on where that might be. There undoubtedly is a lot of work to be done in respect of education. On a smaller scale, as a partnership we have been highly successful in recent months in running Easter schools and schools for children in east Belfast who are about to sit their GCSEs and who currently are on a D grade. The idea is to bring them up to a C grade and this has been very successful. We are running them in places like Skainos for free and are encouraging kids to attend at Easter or on Saturday mornings to try to bring them over the line and get them to the next level at which they need to be. We have Belfast Metropolitan College right on our doorstep with a huge new facility in the Titanic Quarter - I must declare an interest because I am on the board of the college - as well as one in Castlereagh. While there are many opportunities for kids, it is just that we need to ensure they can avail of them. It is a huge issue for east Belfast, especially for Protestant loyalist males in east Belfast, and I do not believe we are anywhere near finding a solution.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

However, the Connswater Community Greenway project is working on it.

Ms Wendy Langham

Yes, where we think we can make an impact on a small scale. We are a small organisation.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

What does Ms Langham think could make a big impact?

Ms Wendy Langham

They need a new primary school, which would be really useful.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

Preschool facilities as well.

Ms Wendy Langham

Yes.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

That is the start.

Ms Wendy Langham

Yes.

I will conclude by noting that one of the most successful elements within the C.S. Lewis Festival involved a group called Replay Theatre Company, which conducts drama workshops. It went into the most disadvantaged schools in east Belfast, ran workshops about teaching them to become story investigators and it was so powerful. It was stunning that they got children who, even at the age of six or seven, had disengaged. What surprised me is that one can be disengaged from education at the age of six or seven but there was an attempt, through that single session, to awaken their imagination in education, storytelling, reading and literature. We also had a Seven Chronicles in Seven Libraries event throughout east Belfast. We brought in the poet laureate, Sinéad Morrissey, to conduct an unseen poetry workshop in secondary schools in east Belfast, where we got together three groups of schools that had never worked together previously. She went through her poetry, as well as that of C.S. Lewis, and made that meaningful to the kids, who perhaps had never really had that type of interaction. While it was part of a festival and is not an ongoing thing, it is a complex issue and we must consider different ways in which education can be delivered to those groups that cannot avail of it for many reasons at present.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

What about selection?

Ms Wendy Langham

That is not something we can resolve. It undoubtedly causes a huge problem for many kids who are not selected at a very early age. Moreover, it is incredibly difficult for parents who cannot support them to get them to a school of their choice.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

Does Ms Langham agree this is an issue that must be examined?

Ms Wendy Langham

Definitely.

Deputy Seán Conlan

Ms Langham has referred to the disengagement of kids and efforts to develop the arts, literature, poetry and the awakening of people's imaginations. Did she state that only 4% of the pie in respect of arts funding for the city goes to east Belfast?

Ms Wendy Langham

Yes.

Deputy Seán Conlan

How is that being addressed?

Ms Wendy Langham

We now have our east Belfast arts strategy. We had a meeting with the Minister on those figures because we also were shocked to learn that. We are working to address that and have got a commitment to try to address it both with the Minister and through the Arts Council in the future. We are not over the line with regard to what resources will come to east Belfast but we needed to develop the strategy to try to secure resources on the back of that.

Deputy Seán Crowe

On the inclusive murals and the difficulty of dealing with that, has there been movement in this regard?

Ms Wendy Langham

There is no agreement on that, other than there have been moves where murals have been replaced. We have C.S. Lewis murals and had a brilliant yard men mural, which unfortunately is in disrepair. Through the greenway, we are putting in new facade art and at the civic square, we are putting in new public art. There is an ongoing discussion to be had on murals and we are nowhere near resolving that issue in our part of the city.

Chairman

I thank Ms Langham very much and the joint committee appreciates her attendance. We do not envisage this meeting as a once-off event and if the committee returns to Belfast, we might follow up and get a visual glimpse into the work the Connswater Community Greenway project is doing. Having seen some of the slides presented today, the project is aiming high and given the work in which it is involved, the group clearly is thinking outside the box. Moreover, its positivity is contagious. One hears questions continually as to what is a peace dividend from an economic point of view and here, one can see clearly there is a peace dividend with all the infrastructure development. On Ms Langham's question as to how the joint committee can help the project in respect of corporate social responsibility, members can think about that issue. If we can have follow-up to this meeting that would be great. I am aware that Maurice Kincaid is in New York and that Ms Langham's group appears to be learning a lot from different examples, including New York. Many towns that are struggling at present in the context of expanded retail developments and town centres that are hurting could learn a lot from the infrastructural connecting, pedestrian-wise, in Belfast.

We can learn more from the witnesses. If they are interested in working with us, we would like to continue this relationship. I thank Ms Langham.

Ms Wendy Langham

I thank the Chairman.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.10 p.m. until 10.20 a.m. on Thursday, 26 June 2014.