Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement debate -
Thursday, 7 Oct 2021

Engagement with the Community Foundation for Ireland

Chairman

Members and all those in attendance are asked to exercise personal responsibility in protecting themselves and others from the risk of contracting Covid-19. They are strongly advised to practise good hand hygiene. Every second seat has been removed in order to facilitate social distancing. We ask people not to move chairs from their current positions. They should always maintain an appropriate level of social distancing during and after the meeting. Masks, preferably of medical grade, should be worn at all times during the meeting, except when speaking. I ask for members' co-operation in that regard. They might indicate if they wish to speak. Members' speaking arrangements have been agreed.

On behalf of the committee, I welcome, from the Community Foundation for Ireland, Ms Denise Charlton, chief executive, and Ms Frances Haworth, head of grants, donor care and impact, and, from the Children's Law Centre, Ms Paddy Kelly, who is participating via Microsoft Teams. I remind them to wear masks when they are not speaking.

The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected, pursuant to both the Constitution and statute, by absolute privilege. However, witnesses and participants who are to give evidence from a location outside of the parliamentary precincts are asked to note they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings that a witness giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts does and they may consider it appropriate to take legal advice on this matter. Witnesses are also asked to note that only evidence connected with the subject matter of the proceedings should be given. They should respect directions given by the Chair on parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should neither criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity.

I invite Ms Charlton to make her opening statement.

Ms Denise Charlton

I thank the Chairman and members for their interest and attendance. The Community Foundation for Ireland, on behalf of the 30 cross-Border civil society partnerships that were formed through our new pilot all-island fund, warmly welcomes the opportunity to talk to them about our work. We are an impact-driven philanthropic hub working with professional expertise and experience developed over 21 years of supporting donors and communities to deliver positive, sustainable and strategic impact. We are recognised as a trusted organisation working with leaders from public, private and philanthropic sectors to achieve positive change. We do this because we connect the generosity and the purposeful giving of donors with the energy, ideas and commitment of people and communities on the ground.

The foundation is connected with every part of the country. We work and support more than 5,000 voluntary, community and charitable organisations. Those links put us in a unique position whereby we can identify the issues on the ground that are emerging for communities.

With the support of our donors, we are able to provide responses which are not just immediate and fire-fighting in nature - although we recognise the importance of that - but which can also identify and move us towards solutions, both system change and systemic.

The connectivity to communities and the ability to listen and of our donors to respond has seen us at the forefront of many challenges Ireland has had and continues to deal with: youth mental health and well-being; the needs of our older community; inequality in all its forms, whether driven by gender, sexual orientation or racial inequality; the response to climate change; and the biodiversity challenge. We at the Community Foundation for Ireland and our partners are there. When civil society is seeking, demanding or implementing change, so are we. The foundation has been a strong partner of communities for more than 21 years. In the first half of next year, we expect to pass an incredible milestone of having granted more than €100 million to communities since we came into in existence.

The €100 million landmark and our 21 years of existence have brought us to a point of reflection; to look not just at the contribution of our donors, our partnerships on the ground in communities, but also the wider role of philanthropy and how it might be leveraged more actively and appropriately in Ireland. Every day, we see the role philanthropy plays and its impact. We see it first-hand in communities throughout Ireland. Ms Haworth and Ms Kelly will talk more about that. We recognise the pressure there will be on public finances going forward post Covid. Philanthropy and our donors have a serious role to play in addressing that.

We are delighted that the Government will be developing a national philanthropy policy in the coming months. It is very important to develop this policy in order that we can grow and nurture gift-giving in Ireland and add to the impact it can have. There are a couple of important areas in philanthropy and in that policy. They are just some examples of where we could be developing philanthropy in Ireland. Less than 1% of the donations to volunteers, communities and charities are for more than €5,000. In New Zealand, which is a very similar country in terms of population, make-up and size, the figure is more than 30%. Imagine the difference we could make if we could grow philanthropy here in the same way.

Match-funding is a mechanism that really helps to grow philanthropy. We, along with our donors, have invested €75 million in communities and that could be significantly grown and leveraged if the Government, Departments and State agencies were to embrace match-funding arrangements. Match-funding is public and private money working together, often in respect of challenging, complex and difficult issues that may otherwise never be funded.

In the past while, we have seen philanthropists stepping up to the plate, looking at their local communities and, informed by the leaders of those communities, identifying where they can make a difference. Whether it is a place to which they are personally connected because of living or business or somewhere from where they came, we have seen philanthropists from Monaghan to Kerry to Cork to Sligo to Tallaght and on to Dún Laoghaire stepping up to the plate and trying to invest locally. The national policy on philanthropy can encourage and promote this place-based giving.

The Community Foundation for Ireland is a philanthropic hub that really listens to communities and hears about what is happening on the ground. We are one of 1,800 community foundations globally. That is one aspect of our unique selling point. It is unique to our model, along with how we know what is happening on the ground. That listening has made us aware for some time that there is a major gap in terms of those in civil society having the opportunity to work together on an all-island basis on specific issues that might bring benefits to all the people. This matter has been on our radar for a long time, but was brought more widely into focus by Brexit and the fallout to which it has given rise.

Last year, we again partnered with the Community Foundation Northern Ireland, some of our donors and community across the island in order to look at the shortfall and see whether action in respect of it was merited. The response was extremely positive. Last Easter, we were able to act. Groups operating as cross-Border partners, or with the intention to operate as such, were able to apply to a pilot all-island fund. Demand was very strong and, as always, way exceeded the amount of available funding. We went through the applications with help of our independent panel and assessors. We were in a great position last August to announce the 30 partnerships. Clean air initiatives, sanctuaries for refugees and migrants, progression of women’s rights, a ban on LGBTI+ conversion therapy and a shared initiative to counter human trafficking are among some of cross-Border civil society partnerships in respect of which we gave out just about €500,000. Ms Haworth and Ms Kelly will go into further detail on that.

These partnerships are real. The experiences, research and campaigns are being shared and positive change is beginning to happen. Of course, success often creates its own challenges. The challenge now for us is to meet the demand that exists. We will be working with our founders, new and existing, to try to meet that demand. Awareness is key. In that context, I acknowledge the support of members of this committee who have helped increase that awareness in communities, encouraged applications and got information on the fund out. If they have information on other interested organisations, communities or donors, we would be delighted to hear from them.

Together with my colleagues, Ms Haworth, head of donor care, grants and impact, and Ms Kelly, CEO of the Children's Law Centre in Northern Ireland, which was one of the first beneficiaries of the fund and which works in partnership with like-minded groups in the South such as the Children's Rights Alliance, we would be delighted to listen and consider any questions and observations members may have.

Ms Frances Haworth

I can give the committee a sense of the grant-making involved and the kind of impact we hope the projects will have. We opened the fund to applicants in April and received approximately 100 applications, involving requests amounting to €1.3 million. We were oversubscribed by a ratio of 3:1 in respect of the funding we had available. We deliberately kept the criteria quite broad in order to enable groups to tell us about the issues on the ground they wanted to work on. The idea behind the grants is that there is a grant behind each. In other words, a non-profit organisation in the South and another in the North will partner on a key issue. There are different stages to that. They can be early-stage partnerships. In other words, if the two groups had just started and identified that they wanted to work together, they might be exploring ideas initially. Then we had stage-4 organisations that had already developed partnerships and could apply for more funding to further develop those partnerships and, maybe, develop shared policy positions.

We had strong interest in the fund, which was oversubscribed. Our assessment panel went through all the grants and selected 30 strong partnerships. We were delighted with the quality of what came forward. It was interesting to see the themes that were coming through. Because we had quite broad criteria in terms of encouraging groups to come forward with issues they felt it would be important for them to work on together, we saw different themes emerging. There was a strong interest, for example, in cross-Border environmental work. We have funded six projects for organisations looking at clean air quality and how to work together on the common issue we have around climate change, including, for example, in the context of community recycling initiatives.

There are some really interesting projects. We also had a focus on migrants and racial justice, funding a number of projects in the area and looking at shared learnings around integration of migrants in the education system, for example, and supporting leaders from the migrant community. That is some really interesting work.

There were also some joint policy projects and Ms Kelly will speak in more detail around a project working with the Children's Rights Alliance. There is some really interesting work exploring more rights-based issues where, for example, we support TASC with a grant to do some workshops looking at how the most disadvantaged have been affected by Brexit. It is a really interesting range of projects, with some health matters coming forward as well.

From our perspective it has been really interesting to listen to the communities and the sector about what it wants to put forward and work on. We are looking to support that with flexible funding to enable those discussions and some joint work as well.

Ms Paddy Kelly

I will come back to reflect on the particular work we are doing with colleagues in the Children's Rights Alliance. I thank the Chairman, the committee, Ms Haworth and Ms Charlton for inviting me to speak today. This is a matter very dear to my heart and I would like to reflect specifically on the importance of philanthropy. I welcome that the Government is preparing a national policy on philanthropy. In reflecting on that, I will explain why it is so important to us in the Children's Law Centre.

For those members who do not know us, the Children's Law Centre is a rights-based organisation working on social justice and using the law to vindicate children's rights. When we were set up 24 years ago, it was on the back of a very small grant of £30,000 per year for two years from the Community Foundation Northern Ireland. That grant allowed us to leverage money from the historic health and social services boards. From that we are now in a position where we help 3,500 children every year to vindicate their rights. By this I mean that children are able to access mental health services and education. Homeless children are able to find somewhere to live and refugees and asylum seekers are able to live securely and safely.

This only happens because of philanthropy and the work of the Community Foundation Northern Ireland. As a result of that £60,000 grant 24 years ago, there are tens of thousands of children and young people in the North who have been able to live happy childhoods and realise their potential. There are literally children who are alive today as a consequence of that small grant. I think particularly of a young man who but for the Children's Law Centre and the grant allowing us to be established would have been sent back to Afghanistan in the near future. I congratulate those involved on the development of this national policy on philanthropy and I hope those in Stormont take note of it and develop a similar policy or approach.

I also reflect on the importance of civil society organisations working North and South with respect to the peace process. It is without fear of contradiction that I can speak about the role played by organisations like the Irish Council for Civil Liberties and the Centre for Humanitarian Action in ensuring human rights protections in the Good Friday Agreement. They ensured those protections were there and, insofar as it is possible, they have realised the potential of these in the intervening years. Those organisations exist by virtue of the funding through philanthropy. Again, the organisations came together, along with ourselves and the Children's Rights Alliance, to try to put on the agenda the importance of rights protections as the UK withdrew from the EU. It was about ensuring the rights protections in the Good Friday Agreement were safeguarded.

It is again important to recognise the role that organisations North and South played together in seeing that those rights protections existed in the protocol. I will leave it there but I am very happy to answer specific questions on the work done by us and the Children's Rights Alliance.

Chairman

In hearing from members, I propose that ten minutes be allocated to each party. This session will end at 3 p.m. and we should have plenty of time for people to ask questions and witnesses to give their answers. I understand we will have two speakers from Sinn Féin.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

I thank the witnesses for their presentations. I am very familiar with the work of the Community Foundation for Ireland and we have done some projects in Mayo with it, as well as some cross-Border projects. It has been a while now. Working in community development, sometimes with the application for funding there is much bureaucracy but I have always found the Community Foundation for Ireland to have accountability absolutely worked into its process while not being too bureaucratic. I encourage organisations here to avail of the really good opportunities under all the different strands that it has. I would like to see more use being made of that.

There are two challenges I will ask about specifically. One concerns the Government mainstreaming of projects as there can be some really good projects that just stop. What ideas do the witnesses have about mainstreaming them? What could we do as a committee to encourage the Government to match funding and mainstream projects so the benefits would not be just for the people in the initial project?

As part of the committee's work today we will have witnesses who will speak to the challenges for former prisoners, their children and grandchildren and extended families. In the course of the work done by the witnesses, have they done anything in that area? Is there anything planned for the future to support that type of work? It is quite shocking, having looked at the presentation sent to the committee, that such people have travel, employment and insurance restrictions. There are real civil and human rights matters that must be dealt with. We must deal collectively with those. I apologise as I must leave early because I have a flight to catch. If the witnesses address these matters they could then engage with Mr. Brady.

Ms Denise Charlton

It is great to see the Deputy. She is absolutely right about the Community Foundation for Ireland. In working with donors we ensure we mind our due diligence and take the best care we can of the assets with which we are entrusted. On the other hand we understand that communities are really up against it. We also want to honour their requests while having as light a touch as possible. We are always thinking about the application process and how approvals can be made. We are also always at the end of the phone if people need support in applying to us. I am glad the Deputy has noticed that about us because it is our intention.

We do much work with prisoners and one of the groups is looking at prisoner rights. We also do much work in the Republic with the Irish Penal Reform Trust. We have a rolling fund and we hope to bring more investment, so if there are matters that people want us to consider or address, we would be delighted to do that. We have an open door. We hope to keep a small rolling fund for matters that emerge while we are doing the open grant rounds. I hope that answers the questions.

Senator Rose Conway-Walsh

Yes. I thank the witnesses.

Mr. Mickey Brady

I thank the witnesses for the presentation. It is great to see Ms Kelly again because I have not seen her for a while. My question relates to funding. There is tranche of PEACE IV funding that will come on board by the end of this month but it may be at risk because it must be signed off by the North-South Ministerial Council. The Democratic Unionist Party, DUP, has threatened to pull out of those meetings.

Could funding be put at risk because of this?

Ms Denise Charlton

The question on match-funding and what the committee can do arose in the previous speaker's contribution as well. As the two members highlighted, funding is an issue. This is an agile and flexible fund, the intention behind which is to encourage new and existing partnerships to see how they might work across the island on particular issues. There is no doubt we will need more funding. One of the asks of the committee is that it would strongly encourage match-funding. There is no doubt that we could leverage more money into the fund if match-funding were available. Groups have said to us that they will have ongoing requirements to work together. They have said this is the first phase and they are interested in seeing where that might be realised. They are considerations we think about all the time. As for the new policy on philanthropy, it would be fantastic if match-funding throughout Departments were considered as part of that, and if the focus for this fund were applicable. Ms Kelly might like to add to that.

Ms Paddy Kelly

No, but I am happy to endorse what Ms Charlton said.

Deputy Brendan Smith

I welcome our guests and thank them for their presentations on a very important area. The foundation, both nationally and through its member organisations, does very important work on behalf of so many areas where there is disadvantage. Over the course of the pandemic, we have become more and more aware of the increasing incidence of domestic violence and so on. There are many areas that need interventions and support, but I am glad Ms Charlton outlined that the foundation supports efforts to counteract domestic and gender-based violence. That is very welcome. I presume that when the foundation runs programmes, it needs a multi-annual commitment from donors and sponsors. I imagine that is not easy to achieve. As we all know, sometimes running a programme on the basis of its getting annual funding does not lead to stability or continuity in planning and providing particular services. Does that pose a problem in many instances?

I was taken with the figure Ms Charlton mentioned with regard to New Zealand and the level of sponsorship in our country. Are there tax incentives in that country or is it that there is a good programme of awareness, created by the government or local authorities and statutory agencies, in regard to the need for businesses and people in a position to support good causes to make those contributions? I have always been of the opinion that, as a country, we are very generous in supporting good causes. As I know from my work as a member of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence over the years, at which we have had constant dialogue, communication and meetings with NGOs such as Trócaire, Concern and Oxfam, they always mention the very good response there is from this country, both at a State level and from individual citizens, in regard to disasters that occur throughout the world, not just at home, be it famine or otherwise, to help the most needy.

I presume that when Ms Charlton refers to philanthropy, she means being supportive of good causes. There is a great deal of general sponsorship, such as that of sporting organisations at local level or of various events. In every parish and village on this island, people generously sponsor good local causes, whether it is in terms of sport or some other endeavour. How much of that type of sponsorship philanthropy on this island is captured in the foundation's figures? Events are held to mark occasions or to help out where some family or individual comes on difficult times. We all know of very good work done at a local community or county level. Are those types of events captured in the foundation's figures Ms Charlton mentioned?

I could talk about the Kevin Bell Repatriation Trust. Sadly, many Irish people have died abroad and the trust in question has been phenomenal in assisting families to bring back loved ones who have passed on. Subsequently, in the parish or area in question, there might be a fundraiser to support the Kevin Bell Repatriation Trust to ensure it will be adequately resourced to deal with the next tragedy that will, unfortunately, happen. That is not an isolated type of event; they are common and different causes merit fundraising at different times in local communities. How much of that type of good support and generous gift-giving is captured in the foundation's figures?

Ms Denise Charlton

I will answer some of the questions before handing over to Ms Haworth. On philanthropy in Ireland and how we fare internationally, the Deputy is quite right in saying that philanthropy is very underdeveloped in Ireland. I will speak to the reasons for that and what we could do to promote it more actively and appropriately. There is no doubt that in other countries, it is seen as part of the solution and the recovery. Governments strongly promote philanthropy and work with private donors to examine common areas of interest that can be progressed. That is what makes such a difference in Ireland. It is fantastic that consideration is being given to developing a national policy on philanthropy. We would really like that to be progressed as a matter of urgency, but we would also like there to be some teeth behind it to show that the Government sees philanthropy as part of the solution.

We at the Community Foundation for Ireland see the difference philanthropy can make. It adds value. Often, it can be there when a project is at pilot stage or needs to be scaled up, when certain evidence or research has not been available or when a collaborative approach might encourage a system change. It can be capital, and many buildings in Ireland have had philanthropic investment. There are many ways philanthropy can help.

As we said earlier, the public purse will be under great pressure. We believe that if the Government can see its way to developing and promoting the national policy and showing where philanthropy has had an impact, many more givers will come to the table. There are many people in Ireland who can give in many different ways, whether through legacy or a fund. At the Community Foundation for Ireland, we have 100 funds, although we could have 200 or 300. We would like the Government to promote the environment for philanthropy, showcasing and highlighting its impact and encouraging others to come to the table.

The Deputy is absolutely correct about multi-annual funding. When we talk to the groups on the ground we are working with, trying consistently to raise funding is problematic. As a foundation and with our donors, we encourage the examination of how multi-annual funding can be facilitated. In our 21 years in operation, we have had partners for that period. We work with partners and communities over the long term and that is important to us. It depends on the donor's intention and we try to work with them in that regard. They ask us where the greatest need is and how best to facilitate solutions to that need.

The Deputy referred to some of the crises that are happening nationally and internationally. When Covid-19 hit, we set up a fund and our existing donors and new donors immediately came to the table and put money in. They did so in a variety of ways. Some gave us unrestricted donations and allowed the Community Foundation for Ireland, because we are connected to the organisation, to decide where the greatest need lay. We are delighted with that. Others told us they had been working with particular organisations for many years and wished to ensure that those organisations could pivot and adapt to the crisis and continue to work with their beneficiaries. Donors work with us in a variety of ways but we absolutely acknowledge that, as the Deputy stated, there is a significant need for multi-annual funding in order to support organisations to do the very important work they do.

As members are aware, the voluntary and community sector is approximately the same size as the agriculture sector. It is vast and the work it does throughout the country is incredible. We saw its amazing work continuing in very difficult times. The figure of €75 million to which reference was made is the money that we and our donors have been able to invest in communities across Ireland. That is our figure. We hope to reach €100 million next year. I ask Ms Haworth to comment.

Ms Frances Haworth

As regards value added as a funder, the Community Foundation for Ireland is of the view that, by its nature, there is only a limited amount of philanthropy. The latter can never replace Government funding, so we always try to add value in terms of the projects we fund. The all-island fund is an example of that. Even when we were setting up the fund, we consulted with the sector to see whether there was a gap for that kind of funding. Indeed, the demand for this kind of grant initially came from some of our partners on the ground who wanted to do this kind of work but lacked the small-scale funding to initiate it or were unable to access most of the funds that were available as they were thematic in the context of a particular area or were focused on peace and reconciliation, for example, rather than on other issues that were affecting people across the country who were more disadvantaged. We consulted extensively before launching the fund in order to make sure that we were adding value. In the context of the PEACE PLUS money that was referenced, we consulted with other funders, including the reconciliation fund, to ensure that the grants we were offering would be supportive and make sense in the funding environment that exists. There really was a need for flexible funding to support community groups such as those that were at an early stage of meeting and starting to build partnerships and were not in a place where they could apply for PEACE PLUS funding, for example.

We play a key role in supporting community and voluntary groups to come together in respect of a broad range of issues and also being able to support issues for which it may be more difficult to secure funding through more mainstream supports. For example, we mentioned that we are supporting LGBT Ireland and the Rainbow Project in Northern Ireland to come together to consider a shared policy in respect of a ban on conversion therapy, for example. That is an example of being able to support sectors of civil society that have come together to develop a shared position on a key social issue.

Chairman

The Deputy's ten minutes are up but we will have time for a second round. I move to the Fine Gael slot, for which there are two speakers, namely, Senator Currie and Deputy Carroll MacNeill. I do not mind which of them goes first. I will not choose.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

Senator Currie may go ahead.

Senator Emer Currie

I thank the Deputy. I am here to get as much information as possible to relay to the organisations that get in contact with me. I have been contacted by many of them regarding projects with which the Community Foundation of Ireland might be able to help, so I thank Ms Charlton, Ms Haworth and Ms Kelly. I ask them to provide as much information as they can in respect of situations in which an organisation would go to the reconciliation fund as compared with situations where it might go to the Community Foundation for Ireland. I am sure our guests have an oversight of that.

It is great that some of the projects the foundation is funding are not the normal, run-of-the-mill projects one is used to hearing about. One hears a great deal about reconciliation funds but the foundation also funds projects relating to climate justice, domestic violence and all that sort of thing. It is very broad. If I were advising an organisation that comes to me, where would I send it? One of the organisations we met recently is the Irish Central Border Area Network. In what direction would our guests push that organisation?

I refer to mental health. I am on the board of a charity called Social Anxiety Ireland. Is that the kind of thing in which the foundation is interested? That organisation is based in Dublin but wishes to reach out across the island. It may not be part of the all-island fund but it may relate to other funds the foundation has.

My final question is probably more for Ms Kelly. I keep coming back to the fact that we are crying out for more North-South co-operation in light of everything that has happened in the context of Brexit. This is the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement but parts of the agreement have not been implemented. I refer specifically to the North-South consultative forum. What loss does the failure to have that structure up and running create? How would it benefit the work our guests do to have a forum where civic and community organisations would have a voice and a say? What value would that bring? Do our guests see themselves playing a role in that regard? What are their thoughts on not having that structure? Whether they like it or not, as the foundation is an all-island operation with this fund, it sees so much of the co-operation that is there, as well as its value and potential.

Ms Denise Charlton

I thank the Senator. To go back to the origins of and intention behind the fund, it was deliberately designed to focus on issues. Organisations on the ground were saying to us that they wanted an opportunity to think, convene, research and campaign with their counterparts across the island and that they needed an opportunity to have a flexible and open way to do that. For some of them, it was the very beginning of thinking about how they might work together. Others may have been working together or thinking about doing so but needed resources.

The Senator is right in saying that we fund projects relating to climate, mental health and gender-based violence. We do so because those are the issues that are the glue for working, thinking and campaigning together. That is very much what the fund is focused on, and deliberately so. We received a high level of response on that, with organisations indicating that they wished to circumvent the politics of the island and try to work together on specific issues. That is the intention. We will evaluate the fund. These are very early days. As we stated, the funding was only announced in August. We will evaluate its impact and consider the question of where to next for the organisations that have participated.

We would be delighted for the Senator to recommend to people that they contact us. We are always open. We meet the funder, which is an opportunity for organisations to book a slot to come and talk to us. We believe that our ability to have an impact is through our connectivity with communities on the ground, so we are always open and really want to hear from communities and hear their ideas. We have several grant rounds consistently open during the year. At the moment, it is for older people. We will be looking at biodiversity in October. These grant rounds are always publicised on our website. We run many webinars and facilitate information sharing.

Members are always welcome to direct people to us. We would be delighted to hear from them. They should always be asked to check out the website.

Perhaps Ms Kelly will comment. The Children's Law Centre and the Children's Rights Alliance started before we announced the fund. They were part of the pilot pilot, as we say. Perhaps Ms Kelly will respond to the question about where to send an organisation. The Children's Law Centre and the Children's Rights Alliance have been working together for a period of time.

Ms Paddy Kelly

I would echo the importance of all-island dialogue in terms of addressing what the Children's Rights Alliance and the Children's Law Centre believe to be the potentially serious adverse impact of Brexit on the Good Friday Agreement. By way of background, the Children's Law Centre and the Children's Rights Alliance came together as far back as 2016 because at that stage, we recognised the potential impact of Brexit on children's rights and together we commissioned pro bono evidence from A&L Goodbody and invited it to look at the impact of Brexit on children's rights. We disseminated that information quite widely, including to Members of the Dáil and representatives in London, Brussels and Belfast. I, along with Ms Saoirse Brady from the Children's Rights Alliance, gave evidence alongside Ms Michelle Gildernew in Westminster on this particular issue.

On the back of that, when we saw the withdrawal agreement and the protocol, we continued to believe there was a real threat to children's rights and to the Good Friday Agreement from what was unfolding. Indeed, we saw that in the context of the UK Government's threat to repeal the Human Rights Act and potentially to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights, ECHR, which, as committee members know as well as I do, is a fundamental cornerstone of the Good Friday Agreement. We were concerned that would interfere with children's legal entitlements and result in soaring child poverty, and that it would interfere with child protection, anti-trafficking measures, the rights of EU citizens in the North and EU-derived rights of citizens generally in the North. At the same time, we were conscious that the winds of constitutional change are blowing across these islands. One only has to look at the independence movement in Scotland and the growing dialogue around constitutional change on the island of Ireland. We are also conscious of the Irish Government's shared island dialogue process. The Children's Rights Alliance and ourselves feel strongly that children's rights principles and the voices of children and young people should underpin all of the considerations of governments on these islands and developments that are happening. The new political realities, whatever the future constitutional changes on these islands may be, must be informed by the voices of children and young people. That is why we came together.

The project we are doing has three strands. We are commissioning research from eminent academics in the University of Liverpool, who are going to scope out the impact of Brexit and the protocol on children's rights and the capacity to vindicate those rights. That includes socioeconomic rights. We are deeply concerned about the impact on child poverty that Brexit and the withdrawal agreement will have.

We have an exciting piece of research and pilot programme. We are going to listen to the voices of children and young people and hear their concerns over the impact of Brexit, the protocol and the constitutional conversations happening on this island. We are making efforts to reach those communities of children and young people who are hard to reach, including the Protestant, unionist and loyalist, PUL, community in the North.

We also want to bring together those of us who work in the children and young people sector to have a dialogue about how we can work together to build relationships on this island and to act as a strong lobby and as a resource base for people like the committee members to ensure the decisions they make about the withdrawal agreement, the protocol and the constitutional conversations are made with full knowledge of the implications for children's rights, and having listened to the voices of children and young people.

Senator Emer Currie

My colleague, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, did not get in.

Chairman

She did not, but the ten minutes are up. I will be nice to everybody. We will have plenty of time. I will go back to Sinn Féin, followed by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. That should allow everybody to come in. I apologise to Deputy Carroll MacNeill, whose colleague asked very good questions.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

She did ask good questions. That is quite all right.

Ms Órfhlaith Begley

I welcome the representatives of the foundation to the committee today and commend them on the work they have been doing so far. It is excellent to see North-South co-operation. We all saw how important co-operation was throughout the pandemic and it has also been highlighted by Brexit. I note from our guests' paper that they are working with a number of voluntary community and charitable organisations. I would like to get a sense of how our guests think Brexit is going to impact them, particularly their funding. How will additional funding add or take away from the projects and works that those organisations have ongoing at this time?

I will pick up on Ms Kelly's point about rights and Brexit. We saw during the Tory party conference that the Conservatives have an agenda to repeal the Human Rights Act. There is, in the North, an ad hoc committee on a bill of rights, which is considering the implementation of a bill of rights for the people living in the North. I would be keen to hear Ms Kelly's view on how important she considers that bill of rights for the people living in the North, especially children and young people.

Ms Denise Charlton

Ms Haworth will go first and then we will go to Ms Kelly.

Ms Frances Haworth

I thank Ms Begley for the question. I will comment on the funding for the community and voluntary sector before Ms Kelly comes in. There has been a lot of surveys and analysis done in the community and voluntary sector since the onset of Covid-19 in terms of the impacts on funding. There has been a significant impact, particularly on smaller community and voluntary organisations that are seeing increased demand for their services, on the one hand, and a decrease in their ability to raise funding through normal activities, including charity shops and fundraisers, etc., on the other hand. The Community Foundation of Ireland has certainly seen an increase in the demand for funding from groups over the past 18 months. We have been able to meet some of that demand through additional funding, including, for example, our Covid fund, which has responded with a dedicated €3 million since the start of the pandemic. We also distributed €6 million worth of Comic Relief funds last year. Philanthropy has played a key role in terms of being able to support the community and voluntary sector through Covid and its aftermath.

Some of the specific impacts of Brexit remains to be seen. To reiterate an earlier point, most of the 30 projects that are being funded through this fund include an element of convening and bringing groups together to discuss some of these key issues. They have only just started. We are very much in learning mode as we move to a stage when work together starts happening. We will have learned an awful lot by this time next year through the community and voluntary sector coming together to see where they are.

Ms Paddy Kelly

I will pick up on the issues around the Human Rights Act and the bill of rights. The Human Rights Act is part of the focus and concern of the Children's Rights Alliance and the Children's Law Centre in taking forward the work we are doing. We believe strongly that Brexit presents a threat in that regard and, consequently, to the human rights provisions of the Good Friday Agreement. We are deeply concerned about the UK Government's approach to the potential repeal of the Human Rights Act and its potential withdrawal from the ECHR. In addition, we are also very concerned about new immigration legislation the British Government is pushing through, which will undermine the rights of trafficked children, including children who have been trafficked through Ireland, and other measures that we believe undermine the protection of rights in the North.

I will move to the bill of rights and the charter of rights that is also provided for in the Good Friday Agreement.

I do not want to pre-empt the research that has been undertaken, but it is the view of the Children's Law Centre that a bill or charter of rights would provide a potential safeguard and safety net to mitigate any loss of rights that might arise as a result of Brexit and would offer increased protections as the North begins to fall behind EU countries as a consequence of Brexit. We have, since our foundation, advocated for a strong, enforceable bill of rights in the North, including strong protections for children's rights and the incorporation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, UNCRC. Our colleagues in the Children's Rights Alliance would similarly welcome its incorporation in the South. I am also mindful of the requirement for equivalency of rights on the island of Ireland, something civil society has been advocating for since the Good Friday Agreement. The type of funding the community foundation, both North and South, is providing will facilitate that discourse continuing. It is important that in implementing and protecting the Good Friday Agreement, human rights be kept at the centre of the discourse.

Deputy Brendan Smith

I thank our guests for their responses. I asked earlier about the figures quoted in regard to the allocation of funding and the support of various very worthy causes. I presume they do not in any way encompass the high level of philanthropy and sponsorship, at both local and national level, in which our country and communities are involved. I do not know how that could be quantified or captured in figures, but I would not like the wrong message to go out about this country. People throughout the country, even those on stretched incomes, are invariably supportive of good causes. As I said earlier, that is the case in every parish and community and great work is done. Many organisations have seen their revenue streams cut substantially during this pandemic and they face difficulties in continuing to provide good services, which they are doing in challenging circumstances. In the context of the very good causes the foundation supports, has it worked with any of the groups that are strong advocates for victims of the Troubles, such as the WAVE Trauma Centre and other groups that have worked with victims of the Troubles and their families over the years? Has it worked on any projects that have helped people through ongoing difficult circumstances?

Ms Denise Charlton

I fully agree with the Deputy in regard to the voluntary and community sector and the contribution it makes to Irish society. The figures we presented reflect what the community foundation has been able to invest in communities and organisations but, of course, there are so many voluntary and community organisations doing incredible work. As I said earlier, the community and voluntary sector is the same size as the agriculture sector. We saw at the coal face organisations pivoting and adapting when Covid arrived, again amplifying the amazing work done by volunteers throughout the country and by national and local organisations.

The all-island fund is new and, as Ms Haworth said, we are at the early stages of working with organisations on key issues throughout the island. We will look closely at what the implications of that are. To date, we do not have any projects such as those the Deputy highlighted, although we would be open to that in future. We work with organisations on a wide range of issues, some of which we mentioned earlier. Ms Haworth might highlight some of the key areas we are working with in communities throughout the island.

Ms Frances Haworth

Following on from the point about the generosity of Irish people, an international survey on charitable giving that is carried out regularly demonstrates, as the Deputy pointed out, that Irish people are among the most generous in the world in terms of personal giving, which is amazing. That has always been said about Irish people, and we certainly see it.

On the kind of work we do, as Ms Charlton said, the foundation is part of an international model. Community foundations were initially set up in the US and are designed by local people for local people. The idea is they are permanent foundations that connect donors who care with causes that matter. That was the spirit in which the Community Foundation for Ireland was set up 21 years ago. Since then, we have supported more than 5,000 organisations throughout Ireland. We have always had a focus on smaller community and voluntary groups across Ireland. Being able to do so, and to support communities to take control of their destiny and address their problems through collective action, is at the heart of the community foundation model.

As a national community foundation, we are able to support the non-profit sector and civil society to address more systemic, long-term issues that affect Irish society because our remit covers the entire country. We have always tried to invest our funds through a lens of equality and human rights in order to support disadvantaged groups. In respect of the Traveller community, for example, we have had substantial investment to support that community and the civil society organisations to address and elevate Traveller rights, services and activities throughout the country. That has been a key area of investment. We have a number of standing funds, such as a women's fund, an older persons' fund and an environment fund, that distribute grants annually in these key areas. In general, we focus on community groups and on long-term change.

Ms Denise Charlton

I might add something to that on the investment side. To be clear about who our donors are, we work a great deal with families, individuals, corporations, trusts and foundations. Two of our better known partnerships amplify the generosity of the Irish people that the Deputy and Ms Haworth discussed. The first is "RTÉ Does Comic Relief" which, during the pandemic, allowed artists to come together with the public broadcaster, and our foundation got some match-funding. Artists and the public came together and raised €6 million, €3 million of which was match-funding. RTÉ asked us to use our expertise and knowledge of where the need was, and the result was that grant-making was developed and designed to allow organisations to pivot during Covid and adapt the services they were providing, or the work they were doing in communities, to the crisis. We were able to support organisations in that way.

The other relationship that amplifies the generosity of the Irish people, which is then turned into strategic and purposeful giving, is with "The Late Late Toy Show" on RTÉ. We all watched the show on the wonderful night last year when €6 million was raised. The show focused on children, particularly those who are vulnerable. There were three strands of funding, including in respect of basic needs and access to creativity and play. The Irish people responded, as they often do, and then the partnership considered the strategic intention of the fundraising and maximised the potential of where the money went, informed by the groups working with children on the ground. Those are some examples of how we work.

Chairman

Are there any further question from the Fine Gael members? The Community Foundation for Ireland is a very dynamic organisation. It has a structured and balanced board, and its capacity to understand finances and communities is most welcome. I ask that it keeps up the good work. Its input has been fantastic.

One group that has not contributed is Aontú. I think Deputy Tóibín is present, although I cannot see him online. He was present a moment ago but is no longer available. We will now conclude unless the witnesses wish to wrap up this session. They have explained their work comprehensively. Everyone will be thinking of communities to approach with the organisation's application forms.

Ms Denise Charlton

I wish to thank the Chair and the members of the committee for listening to us speak about the Community Foundation for Ireland's work in general and in the context of the all-island fund. We urge the committee to make recommendations to the Government on the national policy on philanthropy and to promote the difference that philanthropy can make in this country. We believe it is part of the recovery. The Community Foundation for Ireland would be delighted to work with any donor or organisation.

Chairman

I thank Ms Charlton, Ms Haworth and Mr. Kelly for their excellent presentations. We will suspend the meeting in order to allow witnesses for our next session to join us.

Sitting suspended at 2.43 p.m. and resumed at 3.08 p.m.