Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities debate -
Wednesday, 5 Mar 1975

Report of the Proceedings of 26th February.

Chairman

The first item on the agenda is a report on the proceedings of the meeting of the Joint Committee held on 26th February. We had some little difference of opinion as to whether we should hold that meeting in private or in public session. Eventually we reached an agreement that we would hold it in private session with the proviso that the report of that meeting would subsequently be made at a public session. That is what I now propose to do.

Our meeting of 26th February was devoted mainly to considering our work programme during the coming year. Without going into too much detail, I think I can summarise the results of our discussion by saying we agreed that the Joint Committee should hold a meeting on a specific date once a month. After some discussion, we though that the first Wednesday of each month at 4.30 p.m. would be the time that would suit most members. We also decided that each sub-committee should meet at least once a month. We also considered the matters which required most immediate attention. We settled on the following list:

Schemes which are financed from FEOGA in general, with particular reference, in view of its immediate importance, to the mountain and hill farming and farming in less favoured areas scheme. We also decided to have an early look at the regional development fund and the regulations governing its administration; to give early attention to the social action programme, with particular reference to the recent development with regard to equal treatment for men and women workers, to which there has been considerable reference in the Press in the past week or so and to look at the proposals for a European Medical Community which has attracted a lot of public attention.

These were the matters which we felt should occupy us in the immediate future, in particular, apart from our general work in regard to documentation. We also agreed that there should be a further attempt at some process of selection, some attempt to sort out documents, screen them and sort them from the point of view of their degree of priority. We decided we should avail ourselves more of the services of outside organisations and interested vocational bodies who are anxious to appear at our sub-committee meetings and give us the benefit of their views on different matters.

Finally we decided that, at this meeting today, we would look at and discuss two matters relating to the European Parliament, the first being the question of direct elections, and the second, the extension of the functions of the European Parliament in relation to the Community budget.

Senator Robinson

First of all, I think that is a good summary of the conclusions which we came to. However, I do not see any good reason why we did not have the discussion in public. We would have had the benefit of being on record. In future I suggest we should hold such discussions in public so that there will be a public statement. If the discussion had been recorded there would have been a full opportunity for the public to assess the matter.

For example, at that meeting I suggested that the various sub-committees be chaired by different members of the Joint Committee. I also suggested that in an effort to improve attendances at the Joint Committee we should insist that membership would lapse after three successive absences. All that has been lost to the record because we held that meeting in private.

We have done some fruitful work and have come to some good decisions. We have taken on a substantial work programme. We should regard it as important that sub-committees would meet more than once a month if they are to provide the Joint Committee with sufficient work when it meets at least once a month. Has the Chairman arranged for the sub-committee to meet?

Chairman

Yes. On the point Senator Robinson made, there is no desire to conceal anything from the general public, but it seemed a private meeting facilitated our discussions on those very practical matters. We have now reported fully in public.

Deputy Thornley

There has been criticism of the working of this committee. I suppose that today opportunity will arise to discuss No. 2a on the agenda—elections to the European Parliament.

Chairman

All this will now be discussed in public.

Deputy O'Kennedy

Just two preliminary points in relation to the programme, which has been well planned, but arise nevertheless if we are to discharge our functions and which will require constant study and attention. One is a point I mentioned in a debate in the House last week, that of secretarial facilities being available to Members of the House. I do not know whether you can press Deputy Esmonde who I know has been making some recommendations on the Committee dealing with that. Individual members of the Committee will need secretarial assistance if they are to discharge their responsibilities adequately.

I do not know at what stage it is proposed to take, say, No. 1, with particular reference to the disadvantaged areas scheme. I might mention to the Committee that there is a lot of interest and concern throughout the country, notably in areas outside the traditional disadvantaged areas of the west in pockets around the country where there are public meetings and discussions taking place to have such pockets included in the scheme. I wonder if we will be able to get to that fairly quickly so that we can take into consideration the arguments made by these people. My own constituency is one such.

Chairman

We hope to have that meeting next week.

Senator Robinson

I think that point was mentioned briefly in our discussion last week. In relation to the subject matters we are going to look at, I think the Committee should reach out more into the community. We should meet groups, the people affected, particularly in private session in sub-committee. We should have the benefit of their views. This would enable us to give a parliamentary assessment of the different conflicting interests and values. Until now we have not made an impact on Irish life. Therefore, groups are not coming to us and we have not tried to contact the people affected. I feel that is very important.

Deputy O'Kennedy

As it happens there is a very well co-ordinated programme in my constituency. There is a very tight group who would be very glad, if requested, to come and state their case to us in relation to the disadvantaged areas programme.

Chairman

We have made several attempts to put it across that any body affected by Community legislation, whether it be regulation, directive or whatever, are very welcome to come and put their views before our sub-committees. In fact some bodies have attended our sub-committees in the past and I hope they will be able to do so in the future.

Deputy Esmonde

I should like to see this being regarded as a two-way flow of information and relationship between this Committee and these other bodies. I think there has been a slight breakdown of appreciation of the implications of EEC directives and requirements that affect our national activity.

Chairman

We have had the Incorporated Law Society and the Confederation of Irish Industry before us.

Deputy Esmonde

And they were very helpful.

Chairman

And I think also the Irish Congress of Trade Unions.

Deputy Esmonde

Might I refer to the point made by Deputy O'Kennedy? That was the matter of secretarial assistance. This matter did receive mention in the recent Dáil debate concerning the bi-annual report of EEC activities. I interjected to say there were discussions going on between a sub-committee of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and the Minister for Finance in an effort to deal with the difficulty Deputies were experiencing, particularly when they were serving on Committees, such as this one, or others. There are other constituency problems that perhaps impinge too much on their time, so that they do not have much time to work on Committees like this where there is a lot of routine work to be done.

I am afraid I cannot say anything definite in that regard at present; the matter is under discussion. All I can say is that it was an all-party approach to the Minister for Finance and that there were representatives chosen from all parties to present the views and difficulties of Deputies to the Minister.

Chairman

In the meantime, we keep up our running battle with the Minister for the Public Service for additional staff. The position is that we have now four heads of staff—three filled and one on the way. May we now get on to the question of direct elections?

Deputy O'Kennedy

In that connection—and by way of preliminary clarification—in the debate on European integration before Christmas I mentioned to the Minister that it might be desirable to set up a special committee to consider the question of a dual mandate, if such arose, and when we would have representatives of the European Parliament advise us on the problems they might encounter serving their present mandate. The Minister acknowledged that that might be a good idea. I referred to it again in the debate of last Thursday. I merely want to have it clear in my mind. Since then, I think Deputy Esmonde mentioned to me, in private, that perhaps this committee could discharge that function, and perhaps it can because members of the European Parliament are represented here and I suppose it is the appropriate committee.

In any event, the Minister has shown agreement to have that done, bearing in mind our recommendations, particularly having regard to the fact that members of the European Parliament are here at present and their views could be taken into account. I suppose this could be the committee to do it so that there would not be any overlapping of duties.

Senator Robinson

On that point, it would be a pity, I think, to have parallel, or separate committees sitting on it. Hopefully, this committee has developed a certain expertise. We do have the benefit of the experience of members of the European Parliament. We have the advantage also of being on record in our discussions. Therefore, I think it would be useful if the task could be entrusted to us.