The next item on the agenda is Senator Robinson's notice of motion. If Senator Robinson refers back to our terms of reference she will reach the conclusion that, strictly speaking, this motion is not in order. I will allow it to be moved for the purposes of getting the opinions of the Joint Committee on the idea expressed in it. It is not in order because our duty is specified as being to examine and search in named such pieces of paper as we may select and report to both Houses. On that basis we have been doing our work up to this. We cannot command Ministers to come before us as Members of the Dáil can command Ministers to come before them; essentially we are not empowered to do so by our terms of reference. Therefore, Senator Robinson in proposing this is not quite right. If, however, the members of the Joint Committee agree with the general drift of the proposal, instead of passing it as a formal resolution we could write to the Minister for Foreign Affairs asking him to facilitate us in doing what the Senator is proposing as this would assist us in our work. I am sure the Senator would be the first to recognise the considerable help we have received from all Departments of State since our establishment as a Joint Committee. Members of all Departments have been extremely helpful in understanding the many documents we have to look at and we would very much like to preserve that relationship and return the confidence they are showing in us.
Outcome of Council Meetings.
I move:
That the Joint Committee believes that where it has issued a report on an EEC proposal which subsequently comes before the Council of Ministers, it is necessary to establish a link of communication between the Minister who attended the meeting of the Council and the Members of the Joint Committee; and the Joint Committee therefore requests Ministers who have received copies of any such report and recommendations of the Joint Committee on a proposal prior to attending a meeting of the Council of Ministers which considers that proposal to circulate a statement on the matter after the meeting to the Chairman and Members of the Joint Committee.
I certainly agree with the Chairman's last comment that we have received considerable assistance from the Departments and it has helped the Sub-Committees to do their work. This is worth acknowledging publicly. In putting forward this motion I was anxious to ensure that it did not go outside our terms of reference and I accept the Chair's ruling on that. The idea was that the Joint Committee would request statements from Ministers following meetings of the Council of Ministers. If it is more appropriate to do this by way of a letter, I agree with that. I accept that we have no right to demand information but there is a definite gap which affects our work and our capacity to do the job that we have been set up to do by our terms of reference and under the statutory responsibility under European Communities (Amendment) Act, 1973, which imposes on us a duty to look at the implementation here of secondary legislation.
When we examine a proposal from the European Community, be it a draft directive, a draft regulation or programme which will give rise to regulations or directives and report on it, we normally are informed at Sub-Committee level of the likely time scale and we know generally when there is to be a meeting of the Council of Ministers which will consider the proposal. We examine the EEC proposal from the perspective of the impact it will have on Ireland and we so report and make recommendations. We even recommend amendments but we never get any feedback. We never know whether our report was considered by the Minister or what kind of representations were made at the meeting of the Council of Ministers. I accept that there has to be some confidentiality at meetings of the Council of Ministers. But what happens in reality, irrespective of what Government are in office, is that the Minister at the Council of Ministers meeting or at a press conference following it highlights items of political interest because that is what journalists want to know. Sometimes the reports on the matters we examine are not very hot political matter and they are not highlighted at a press conference following a meeting nor do they become the subject of questions in the Dáil or of a debate in the Dáil on the basis of a motion or legislation or something. There is no feedback of any sort. I submit that that affects our work. We do not know about our impact, we do not receive any feedback and quite often when we examine something we subsequently go on to examine a related proposal and we still do not know where we are. The reason I tabled this motion was because we received a very useful document from the Minister for Agriculture following the last meeting in Brussels on farm prices. Every Member of the Oireachtas received the document, which showed the Commission's proposals and also what was agreed by the Council of Ministers. That brought home to me the lack we have had. We do not know what stand, if any, was taken on our report on combatting poverty. We do not know if in other areas our recommendations were taken into account and, as we are an all-Party Committee, they merit a certain weight. There is no feed-back whatever. If a statement was furnished by the Minister it would give the Joint Committee a sense of the purpose it is serving and the usefulness of it. I would be pleased if the Joint Committee would accept the principle of the need for greater information and feed-back of information to us arising from the reports and recommendations we have made. This would help our work and help us to do our job properly. As an all-Party Committee it would create a better relationship with the Minister for the time being.
I agree with the Chairman that the motion as couched is not merely one that we can——
It carries over Senator Robinson's point.
I agree with the Chairman's proposal that a letter to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, who is the Minister responsible for relations in the Community, would cover this. It is only fair that where we suggest amendments or highlight possible difficulties we should hear what happens. I take it for granted that the briefing the Minister gets takes into account what is in our reports. I agree with Senator Robinson that it would be desirable, if only from the point of view of motivation——
That is perhaps the most important element in it.
——that we would hear how our particular interpretation of the proposals had helped and, more specifically, where we recommended changes what happened to them. I feel the Minister would find it reasonable that we should get a statement and this might be tabled at a future Joint Committee meeting.
We have been doing very well for the Houses of Parliament that appointed us through the informal co-operation we have been getting from Ministers and departmental officials. I would prefer to see that continue without any attempt to formalise, leading to an increase in silence and seizing up of communications rather than improving them. We can write a letter to the Minister that would keep that right. If Senator Robinson is happy, that is the way I propose to do it.
I read the text of the draft letter and it seems to meet the point that we would be considerably assisted in our work if we were advised of the Council's deliberations on these proposals.
Deputy Leonard
I agree that the Chairman is probably taking the better approach. It is important that we would get a feed-back. Not alone would it help the Joint Committee but it would be a recognition of the input of the Committee into the various documents.
In the Chairman's draft letter, which is an excellent one, it states that the European Community make reports from time to time on the Community's proposals and that the Committee believe that members would be considerably assisted in their work if they were advised of the outcome of the Council's deliberations on these proposals. What we are interested in would be to learn about what happened to our recommendations.
We cannot expect Ministers to focus on our recommendations. Surely they must focus on what is before them, which would be the Commission's reports.
It is in the spirit in which we intended it to cover this.
I withdraw that.
It could be conceivable that the Minister would not have any relevant reports of this Committee in his brief.
The Committee adjourned at 4.35 p.m.