Skip to main content
Normal View

Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities debate -
Tuesday, 16 Dec 1980

Energy Matters.

The Committee decided to take another look at energy matters. They had a report in respect of 1978 but, in view of the changes taking place and of the various communications being considered by the Council of Ministers, we considered that it might be appropriate for us to have an overall look at energy matters. The documents examined are listed in page 1 and we mention also two proposals for Council Regulations.

The report takes the form of looking at each of these and commenting. In page 3 we refer to the energy objectives of the Community for 1990 and the covergence of policies of the Member States. It mentions the two major policy objectives which seem to be the main focus and thrust of energy objectives, that is, to reduce gradually to below 0.7 per cent the ratio between the growth of energy consumption and economic growth and to limit to 50 per cent the Community's dependence on energy imported from non-Community countries, more particularly to 472 million tonnes which was the level of net imports of oil in 1978.

On 13 May this year, the Council of Ministers approved the substance of the two resolutions and we have considered the implications of that approval. The whole question of energy price and tax policy and of any increase in energy investment was examined. There are many difficulties regarding the notion of a harmonisation of tax policy or of prices, particularly in the context of the difficulty of bringing about harmonisation of other tax matters. Then there is a factual review of the world energy situation from the point of view of the oil shortage. It is pointed out that the Member States are particularly vulnerable by being dependent on oil for 55 per cent of their energy requirements with 85 per cent of the oil coming from outside the Community.

On page 5 we go into the economic aspects of the Community energy policy. There is reference to the balance of payments deficit, to the inflationary effects and to the problem of OPEC revenue. Recycling is mentioned, too.

As a matter of interest, what has happened to the yen? I note that it is referred to in paragraph 8.

The Japanese are very much dependent on oil. The yen came under tremendous pressure because of increased oil prices but since then the Japanese have been able to manage their economy so as to put that matter right.

The next matter is the whole area of the level of excise duty on oil products. There was no change in absolute value terms between 1973 and 1978. The paper proposes that by reducing dependence on imported oil there will be a weaker link between economic growth and energy consumption, a greater saving of energy and more systematic developments in domestic production. We covered the question of the diversification of energy supplies. All of this has been mentioned before but more emphasis is being placed on it now.

Covered also is the question of price and of tax policy. There is a summary of what the Community are trying to do in this regard. Basically, there is a big problem in regard to bringing about harmonisation.

Paragraph 12 summarises the extent of these differences and concludes that the divergences in energy prices and taxation is increasingly becoming an obstacle to the harmonisation of energy policies and states that complete harmonisation is a Community long-term objective. The first step would be a common approach to pricing, tariff structures and frameworks.

The Community have prepared a separate document in which are discussed various means of raising Community revenue from energy. Such revenue could be used to further the energy policy. There is reference to a tax on the consumption of energy, to a tax on the production of energy in general and to oil in particular and to a duty or levy on imports. There has not been much progress in this regard either.

The next question was the amount of money being spent on energy investment. That is covered in paragraph 15. In the period 1980 to 1990, the Member States plan to spend 400 billion ECU's of capital investment in energy. It is assumed that the greater part of this investment will be in terms of the construction of electricity generating stations, mainly coal and nuclear. The particular role of the Investment Fund will be to help remove the obstacles which now prevent investments from being made.

The next document is Communication (80) 583. At a recent meeting there was agreement on the crucial need to construct an energy policy, to discourage waste and to encourage diversification but no specific measures were agreed.

Then, there are two proposals containing draft Regulations which would ensure continuity of funding already begun for projects in energy saving and for projects to exploit alternative energy sources.

The Committee will realise that there are many communications and documents being published in this area but that very few practical steps are being taken. This is a source of concern for the Committee. As indicated in paragraph 18, we accept the view that Ireland must reduce its present overdependence on one non-indigenous source of energy, namely, oil. There was some talk about having a small number of regional power stations and there was the suggestion that such a policy would be best for Ireland. However, we have been advised that this would not be a good idea in terms of efficiency.

We noted that there was a ceiling for aid for support projects for the purpose of exploiting alternative sources of energy. We noted, for instance, that there was much emphasis on nuclear expenditure and on the greater use of coal. We then came up against the fact that there was no investment by the EEC in the development of certain renewable sources of energy, especially in the case of wave energy, while we recognise that there was some investment in harnessing wind and biomass. From our discussions with the people who visited us, we were given the impression that there are a lot of difficulties with wind power, particularly with the high velocities of wind one would get here. But there is some work going on in that area by the ESB. We gave some attention to the wave energy aspect of this in paragraph 19.

It struck us, and me particularly, because as Chairman of the Sub-Committee I visited Brussels and spoke to the directors of the various R and D divisions there, that the EEC have decided as a policy not to spend even one penny on the development of wave energy. Given that Ireland, in the latitude 40th to 60th is well placed to avail of this source, we thought this was strange. We consulted papers published by the ESB expert who pointed out that a certain length of Irish coastline, 250 kilometres, could give energy equivalent to the total of our present generating capacity. We got a communication from Mr. Lewis of the Civil Engineering Department of UCC, Oceanography Section, where they are doing some limited research although they have very little funds. He provided us with information which we put in the Appendix which shows how relatively important for Ireland this research is. We got the impression that there are people who are only waiting for monetary support to do work in this area. The Sub-Committee felt that if something does not happen quickly it will never happen, so we should take the first step even if it takes ten or 15 years. It is our view that a Community research programme into wave energy potential should be launched forthwith. That has not happened and no recommendations have come from the EEC.

From our point of view, and from a general EEC point of view, this is understandable, because obviously Ireland and Scotland will stand to gain most from this. Clearly, countries like Belgium and Luxembourg will not get much from wave energy, and Belgium for instance would not like their coast line cluttered up with wave energy generating equipment. That would not apply to us and it could make a significant impact on our energy requirements. Also it is a renewable source of energy.

We have been doing well from biomass and this has been summarised in paragraph 20. The cost of the projects has grown rapidly, but nevertheless it is something that is to be recommended and we would like to see it continued. We invited a group called The Friends of the Earth to visit us, and they have been doing some interesting work, reviewing energy policy in a global sense. We felt that they had a lot to offer and we listened to them. We feel that the renewable sources of energy should be given a lot more attention by the EEC and obviously we put more emphasis on wave energy.

We noted in paragraph 22 that the Council of Ministers resolution gradually reduced below 0.7 this ratio of energy consumption growth to economic growth. It was interesting to find out from the Confederation of Irish Industry that in our case we have been bettering that in recent years. We thought that it would be interesting to put these figures in the report. We take the growth in the figures of oil equivalent between 1973 and 1978 and compare it with the growth in our GNP, and we have been doing well.

We say in paragraph 24 that the harmonisation of energy prices and practices is a good objective but we see a lot of difficulties. It would be inappropriate to attempt to harmonise tax and prices on particular commodities on an ad hoc basis without a detailed examination of the repercussions on other revenue expenditure.

Paragraph 25 moves towards our conclusion. We understand the Community are as yet a long way from formulating an overall energy policy. This is a matter of concern. Most of the documents considered are merely discussion documents. Since 1973 very little progress has been made. Given that a lot of the economic issues that we have to live with and are paying for at the moment are derived from energy diffucilties it is extraordinary that the EEC is not making more progress in this area. We feel that we should draw attention to certain areas, even if after due research and evaluation they proved to be no more than useful adjuncts. We have put particular emphasis on wave energy and we are pleased to see that biomass is already being followed up.

We also mention here that coal will play an increasing role in the energy picture and it is getting a lot of attention in the EEC because countries like Belgium and others have reserves of coal which now have become economic to develop. It is clear that in our case every effort should be made to improve existing and to develop new facilities in this regard, and to exploit indigenous sources of coal and peat. We know this is happening in relation to peat and more recently there has been more interest in old coal mines which maybe ten years ago might have been thought to be uneconomic. We again make the point, probably very much under the influence of what we read and our contact with people like The Friends of the Earth, that all the renewable sources of energy should get attention, and the one with the greatest potential for us is wave energy which is not getting one penny of investment or support at the moment from the EEC.

The report mentions that regional generating stations did not find much favour. They would provide heating and electricity and this has been quite successful in other countries, particularly in Denmark where the electricity generating stations also provide district heating in the same location. If we are putting up oil generating or coal generating stations in future should we not locate these in areas of population where the waste heat could be used? In that way we would get the best return energy value from the fuel used.

We discussed this with the people who came to see us.

A case was made for and against it. I was very much impressed by the case made against it.

The difficulty is where there is a unit which is spread out. If it breaks down we must have immediate capacity to take it up. We would have to have a reserve or else stored electricity like we have in Turlough Hill. We would have to double the cost almost, to provide it. That is the explanation given to us and we accepted it.

That explanation was given by a chap who was not very conservative in his approach because he actually supports the idea of wave power.

He also made the point that it is important that the grids in Europe and our grid and the Northern Ireland grid should be tied up. This makes it much cheaper for all of us. Eventually the whole European grid should be brought together as a way of getting over this difficulty of evening-out the peaks and valleys of demand.

What we, as a group, cottoned on to was the lack of expenditure on wave energy. If the ESB could be persuaded to put up £50 million for this project, it would provide a lot of employment on our west coast in the development phase, for technical people, engineers and so on.

So that we could actually hear what the wild waves were saying?

My difficulty arises from, unfortunately, being unable to participate in the Sub-Committee sessions. The report seems very obscure or fudged on the nuclear energy issue. It mentions, in paragraph 13, under the heading "Financing", a switch from oil to other sources of energy. When the Community say that, as I understand it, they include nuclear energy in the other sources of energy.

And coal.

And coal. In the report there has been a welcome emphasis on alternative sources of energy, like waves and biomass. However, the report should make it clearer that it is important to pursue these alternative sources in order not to pursue the nuclear energy alternative. This is not stated. I would welcome something more specific from the Committee.

The recommendations which we are making on renewable sources stand on their own, because the EEC are investing a lot of money in fusion research which, as you know, will be less of a problem, but we are not even to know that yet. We felt that if we got into the nuclear issue it would really obscure the simpler issues about existing or renewable sources of energy about which we can do something. In a future report, we feel that we will probably be back again to the nuclear issue, depending on what is happening nationally and, indeed, that subject might come up in the EEC.

Not to conclude any discussion which Senator Robinson might wish to pursue in this debate, I, personally, find it extremely difficult to assess most of the matters in this report. This is not just old talk, I give the Sub-Committee thanks for the tremendous amount of original work which they put into this report. It is a most unusually good report. What I liked particularly about it was that we are here making a practical proposal, with succinct arguments, figures and so on, which has the chance of getting attention in Brussels. If we get into this vexed nuclear energy issue, straight away our recommendations will be thrown into the basket and will not get a sympathetic hearing for something which, on its own, is meritorious. We can come again on the nuclear issue, because, obviously, nuclear-powered stations will not appear here overnight. I thought that was the value of this report, that we had positive things which might only get lost if we became involved in the larger controversy.

I support very much those positive things but, if one looks at Ireland's energy requirements, those positive things make sense in the context of rejecting the nuclear alternative. We are implying that, in a kind of fudged way, in this report but we are not stating it. I would prefer to have it clearly stated, because it is a basic policy choice.

You can satisfy Ireland's requirements by building a large, centralised nuclear plant, or you can go the way this report seems to be going and which I would welcome. That is, argue the renewable sources, the alternative energy sources which are available. I think that the answer that we would get back if this report is not a little more specific on that major policy choice is "Why have you not made any statement on the nuclear energy proposal, or have you just avoided it?" As long as I can be on record at least as saying that——

We shall not get that answer, because the political reality is that there is intense debate on that question. They are more likely to see something worthwhile in this. They will not want to open another controversy.

We are asking for a very substantial investment. I very much welcome that. We should be doing it from a position of strength because we reject the nuclear option, not from a position of fudging it.

We are not in a position to reject it.

I sympathise with Senator Robinson on this. It must be remembered that we did give a lot of time to the Friends of the Earth——

——rather than going the other way. I believe that the policy to break through the technological barriers which are stopping the development of wave energy stands on its own merits. As far forward as we can see—and I am talking about thousands upon thousands or a million years—if that energy is available, the sooner we put ourselves in the postion to tap it, the better. We shall not succeed by having a few professors working in their laboratories at the academic rate of research. This must be attacked by a massive programme of development of the kind one undertakes when one wants to go to the moon.

All this energy is available and, even if the nuclear option were adopted, we should still develop wave energy. I would prefer to let it stand on its own merits, rather than have people locked into an either-or situation: do we have wave energy or do we have nuclear energy? I do not think that that is the issue.

Correct me if I am wrong, but are we not in a position that we are not going to have nuclear stations until we have had, first, a public inquiry?

That is the present advice.

And that we should take judicial notice of that fact whatever we do? One of the things on which we do not touch in this paper, and which would be implied in it as a rejection of the nuclear option, would be, for example, the disadvantages of coal dust. I listened to a very learned scientist who said that he can see, by the year 2000, whole areas of the earth being uninhabitable by human beings if coal is the resource being used.

That is the other difficulty.

I, personally, would like to sidestep that because I do not think that we have conducted enough inquiry into that far-ranging theme, nor do I think we are really competent.

That is the point. I appeal to Senator Robinson to let this report go on its own merits, as the Chairman says, on the basis that it is making a firm proposal about a gap in the EEC policy as it exists, even as of now. In my discussions with the EEC officials, I had a feeling—though only a feeling—that they were wondering when somebody would tumble to it and our Committee did tumble to it. There seems to be some agreement that something should be done about it.

Was not the point made to us that the people in the energy section were oriented towards nuclear and coal and against doing this type of thing?

They certainly have been.

The staff in the divisions in the EEC concerned with this subject came originally form EURATOM and from the coal and steel area. They are very much oriented in that direction. It is the old problem—if a scientist is working on research, he or she will want to continue. You get a lot of nuclear experts and coal experts, but no wave energy experts. That is the difficulty. If we, through our Committee, can draw attention to this, it might be of use. That is all I can say.

As I have not submitted a written amendment, and as I am on a rather small committee at the moment, I do not propose to seek to amend the report. That would have to be done in considerable detail. However, I am recorded at this meeting as saying that it is in the context of a rejection of nuclear energy, as far as I am concerned, that I welcome the emphasis being placed on the alternative sources of energy. For that reason, I very much endorse the need for capital investment in the research and the technology of the alternative sources.

Senator Robinson is happy on that aspect of it?

I am, on that aspect of it and to that extent I have expressed criticism that the report, regrettably, fudges this. The Committee will explain that I——

I shall be signing the report in the Senator's context. I shall leave open this question until I know more about it.

Paragraphs 1 to 25, inclusive, agreed to.

Appendix agreed to.

Draft Report agreed to.

Ordered: To report accordingly.

Top
Share