The next item on the agenda is a discussion about Drogheda Port Company. I draw witnesses' attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House, or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.
Drogheda Port: Discussion with Drogheda Port Company.
Mr. Paddy Traynor
I am chairman of Drogheda Port Company. I thank the members of the joint committee for inviting us to attend today. It is a very important time in the development of our ports, particularly in these challenging times. The economic well-being of our economy is very closely linked to the performance of our ports and our challenge is to provide world class port facilities to support our trading economy. We have prepared an opening statement for you today and I will ask our CEO, Mr. Paul Fleming, to take the members through it. It is our intention to commence with an overview of Drogheda Port and to discuss our development strategy and the key drivers shaping it
Mr. Paul Fleming
I welcome the opportunity to speak to the members today about our port and our development plans going forward. Hopefully this will be of assistance to the committee in its oversight role and we are happy to discuss any particular issues the members may wish to raise. We have circulated to the committee a more detailed overview of our current operation and development plans to assist with the process.
Drogheda Port is one of Ireland's premier multi-modal ports strategically located on the east coast with direct motorway access to the country's key industrial and commercial centres. The port is continuing to develop and expand by offering its customers a strategic locational advantage in an increasingly competitive marketplace.
We have built a solid reputation on our high levels of customer service, flexibility and the rapid turnaround of vessels. Few ports boast such a prime position for taking advantage of the ever increasing opportunities in European and Scandinavian trades, in addition to the emerging markets of eastern Europe and the ever changing patterns of short-sea container trade.
The port is also Ireland's major distribution and logistics centre for newsprint. Our throughputs had been building steadily over the years until the current world economic downturn. Ports tend to be a reflection of general economic activity and it is quite clear that trading activity is down.
The company provides port facilities for all modes of cargo except ro-ro and has a wide product base with a balance of trade at approximately 75% import and 25% export. We are a natural choice for a wide range of customers and trades, with facilities to handle virtually any type of cargo. Imports include containers, paper, steel, timber, fertiliser, grains, petroleum and liquefied petroleum gas. Exports include containers, magnesite, zinc concentrate and timber.
Geographically, the port is situated on the historic River Boyne on Ireland's east coast with direct access to both Dublin and Belfast on the M1 motorway. The port's position on the east coast of Ireland provides a major geographical advantage for transport links into and out of Ireland. As a result, the port has very strong short-sea trade links with Europe, Scandinavia and the Baltic states.
The global economic downturn reflected itself in Drogheda Port Company's trading position for 2008. Considerable decreases were noted particularly in construction industry imports. Other income streams remained steady or increased during the period. The company's financial performance for 2008 was down on the previous number of years, with operating profits on continuing activities decreasing to €353,090 which represents 14.3% of revenue.
Overall throughputs for 2008 were down on previous years due primarily to the global economic downturn and the slowdown in the level of construction activity in Ireland. The company expects that throughputs are likely to remain at best static for the next 12 to 24 months and consolidation of existing activity a priority. A number of new income streams, however, are currently being explored in addition to stimulating additional throughputs. For example, the company is currently seeking expressions of interest from companies or individuals to construct and operate a port-related warehouse and distribution centre within the port by joint venture or otherwise. There has been considerable interest in this proposal.
The company also continues to develop its joint venture deep-water port at Bremore in order to secure the future of Drogheda Port and the future of Ireland's port infrastructure. The port supports over 100 jobs directly, with the company itself employing currently employing 16 people.
Drogheda Port Company's long-term strategic development strategy for 2004-24 was formally approved by the board of the company on 10 September 2004. The strategy contains three main development strands and intends to position Drogheda Port Company as one of the most progressive, modern and efficient ports in Ireland over that period. The three main strands are the expansion and development of existing port and facilities; the redevelopment of the North Quays "Merchants Wharf project"; and the development of a new deep-water port at Bremore.
Recent development of existing facilities included the expansion at Tom Roes Point terminal of a storage and paving area. The project was part-funded under the seaports measure of the local infrastructure sub-programme, Border, Midland and Western Regional Operational Programme, National Development Plan 2000-2006 at a cost of approximately €1.3 million.
A further investment of €1.2 million was made in 2005 part-funded under the European Union INTERREG IIIA Programme Ireland-Northern Ireland 2000-2006, with the introduction of a vessel traffic management system. The main aim of the proposed system is to improve the navigational safety for commercial shipping and pleasure craft and to provide continuous coastal surveillance for the entire port area. In addition, the introduction of this equipment to Drogheda Port will help to protect the environment and minimise the risk of accident.
The port company has an objective to make the most effective and efficient use of its land bank on the North Quays cognisant of the potential that this strategic site can make to the urban environment of Drogheda whilst taking best advantage of its attractive riverside location. The successful development of this site will assist in supporting the long-term economic development of the town and create an environment conducive to the attraction of inward investment and to fostering enterprise.
The Drogheda Borough Council Draft Development Plan 2005-2011 zones the north quay area as "Inner Quays Development Area" and is identified specifically to accommodate new town centre functions in accordance with a local area plan. With a growing emphasis on sustainability and sustainable land use management, Drogheda Port Company recognises the need to strike an appropriate balance between the need to facilitate development and the need to apply certain control measures to the physical expansion of towns and cities. Central to this philosophy is the effective use and management of land within and close to the existing urban structure.
The Bremore Ireland Port proposal comprises the construction on a phased basis of an entirely new integrated multi-modal deepwater port to cater for up to 50 million tonnes of annual cargo. The proposed new port will cater for load-on/load-off, lo-lo, and roll-on/roll-off, ro-ro, bulk and passenger traffic. The new port will have the deepest shipping berths on the east coast of Ireland and will therefore be suitable to accommodate the increasing demands for new generation deeper drafted freight ships. Vehicular access to the new port will be via a new link road from the M1 motorway with the rail access via a new rail spur which will directly connect to the Dublin-Belfast mainline.
The new port will be designed and operated to the highest environmental standards and respect for the local community. A diverse associated business and logistics district will be created around the port bringing wide ranging economic and social benefits to the Bremore, Balbriggan, Drogheda and the east Meath area.
The proposed ultimate traffic volume of 50 million tonnes per annum will constitute a significant share of total Irish port traffic. However, it is considered of critical importance that any proposed port development takes place on a site which has significant expansion potential available to be realised as and when required, and is part of an overall design which allows, from an engineering perspective, for future port expansion.
If I was to highlight one item to the members today that perhaps constitutes the single most important issue in planning and designing our future port infrastructure it would be the phenomenon of larger vessels replacing and sidelining smaller vessels. This is known in the industry as the cascade effect. Maximum ship sizes have grown steadily for decades but what is different now are the quantum leaps in size and how quickly these changes are coming. While maximum vessel sizes of the future will be determined by economic conditions the fact remains that ever larger container vessels will profoundly change our industry. Currently a chain reaction is under way where the new generation of container vessels of 12,500 teu and more are forcing 4,000-6000 teu vessels down one step in the hierarchy and they in turn are pushing 2,000-4,000 teu vessels down one level and so on. At the lowest levels the smallest vessels will be squeezed out as they will no longer be economically viable. The current economic downturn is accelerating this process where economies of scale are being sought by the shipping lines, and larger vessels provide this. These larger vessels will require suitable draft on a 24 hour basis. In our view a minimum of 11 m is required with an ability to increase to 14 m in the future.
A draft strategic business plan for Bremore Ireland Port has now been submitted to the key Departments. The draft plan proposes the development of Bremore Port on a phased basis to respond to market demand. The success of the business will be measurable not only in terms of the financial strength and growth of the business itself but more importantly by its impact on the Irish economy.
The three partners, Drogheda Port Company, Castle Market Holdings and Hutchison bring a wealth of national and international expertise as required to deliver a project of this magnitude and complexity. In particular Bremore Port presents a unique opportunity for Ireland to attract a world class terminal operator.
Since the signing of the joint venture letter, Drogheda Port Company and Castle Market Holding, together with Hutchison, have been engaged in various activities to advance the project. A team consisting of CDM, Moffatt & Nichol, and DH1 has developed the port design including the modelling of coastal operational conditions. The work has established the overall geometry of the port, including navigational channel and turning basin, dredging requirements, reclamation volumes, breakwater and quay geometry, and updated cost estimates. The design has been informed by archaeological, hydrographical and geophysical surveys. The optimisation process undertaken by the consultant team has resulted in the final proposed location of the port being to the north of Bremore Head, to significantly reduce rock dredging costs and avoid sites of archaeological importance located on the headland. Other important changes to the original HR Wallingford design include the inclusion of a second breakwater to alleviate operational downtime and more efficient design of the quays.
BIP envisage that the planning process for the Bremore project will involve both SID and SDZ applications in a timeframe of 2010 to 2011. A detailed appraisal of route corridor options for the primary port access road from the M1 motorway is also being undertaken by transport consultants in addition to rail connectivity.
As the Chairman mentioned in his opening remarks the well-being of our economy is very closely linked to the performance of our ports and going forward our challenge is to provide world class port facilities to support our trading economy. Notwithstanding the current downturn and its associated effects in terms of decreased traffic volumes, the ports sector is one that demands long-term forward planning and analysis and there will be a future capacity constraint unless new facilities are developed.
The development of Bremore Ireland Port presents a unique opportunity for Ireland in the maritime transport sector and will provide a platform for new direct foreign investment opportunities which currently do not exist.
I thank the delegates for their contribution. Drogheda Port Company is very small, with 21 million tonnes of freight traffic going through Dublin and 694,000 tonnes going through Drogheda, and 675,000 lo-lo freight movements in Dublin and 7,000 in Drogheda. The potential for Bremore is significant. While I will leave the matter to the two local Deputies, is this realistic? How will it be funded and who will pay for it? Do we need another major port in addition to Dublin Port? If it were to be funded and was to proceed can the delegates prove that it would have a synergy with Dublin either by replacing part of the Dublin Port traffic and how would it contribute to the economic development of the east coast and the entire country?
Mr. Paul Fleming
It was clear to the board of Drogheda Port Company very early on in the process in terms of taking forward such a major development that we would require assistance in terms of the correct joint venture partners so we engaged in an open process around 2004 and invited expressions of interest for the development of the project going forward. Arising from that we have procured a world class development partner in Castle Market Holdings and the second largest terminal operator in the world, Hutchison. Both of those parties came in on that process and we have formulated a detailed project team process which involves the three parties going forward.
The board of Drogheda Port Company is comfortable in terms of the ability of the project team to develop this port as and when required. Our view is that it will be required within the next few years in terms of the capacity issues. It differentiates itself from Dublin Port in terms of it being a green field scenario for a port to be created. It will be the first time in an Irish context that this will have happened in a long number of years. The key issue identified by Drogheda Port Company is the draft issue. It is essential that this is addressed.
The difficulty for Drogheda Port and other city ports is that we would have developed on an ad hoc basis in a location that, traditionally, may have been suitable for port activity but for varying reasons that suitability had ebbed over the years. Residential encroachment becomes an issue in terms of operation and so on but the industry is moving forward and there is a clear trend on a European and worldwide basis for ports to move to find the suitable draught conditions for the larger ships. From the board’s perspective it is clear that Bremore is essential. It differentiates itself from Dublin in terms of the draught. We will have the deepest quays in an Irish context on the east coast.
How will the company pay for it?
Mr. Paul Fleming
The business model has been developing from 2005 when the board of Drogheda Port Company engaged Goodbody Economic Consultants to produce a detailed business plan for us. That has been updated in recent months in terms of the project team work. Our indication is that the port cost will be approximately €600 million to €700 million but that must be viewed in the context of the scale and size of the facility being put in place. There will be up to 1.5 kilometres of quays, two breakwaters and an initial throughput capacity of up to 10 million to 15 million tonnes of cargo.
The funding of it is part of the joint venture process between the three parties. Most of that discussion remains confidential but it will be project financed and the three parties currently involved will be part of the financing of the ultimate project.
I welcome Mr. Traynor, the chairman, and Mr. Paul Fleming to the meeting. Coming from Drogheda I am very much aware of the work and commitment of the port authority to the development of the port. I would like to mention also a former chairman, Mr. Seamus Davis, who, like Mr. Traynor, had the interests of the port at heart and had some excellent ideas. As a local Deputy I am aware that the citizens of Drogheda are proud of the work he has done. While I note the absence of Deputy Kennedy, who I am sure is on other business, all of us in County Meath and north County Dublin are agreed this development is essential. Mr. Traynor referred to the future size of vessel using the port and to the greenfield site. All of those issues are critical to your future success.
I have spoken to people who live in the city of Dublin and it is clear that ports must be located away from centres of population but on transport corridors. The key is how quickly one can get on the transport corridor, how quickly the goods can be distributed and how efficient is that process. A good deal of time and money is saved by locating ports outside of cities.
I acknowledge the difference between Dublin Port's strategy and that of Drogheda Port Company. While the transport infrastructure is excellent, and we all know the M1 is probably the best motorway in the country, I would like the witnesses to comment on the impact the company's port business will have on it. I am not concerned about it but if one travels on the M1 at, say, 6.30 a.m., when one reaches the Malahide Estuary the traffic is at a standstill and one cannot move any further. With the volume the company proposes to carry, a key issue will be the distribution network. A key point will be the Leinster outer orbital route, which was a proposal to build a new motorway from near Bremore across to Navan, Kildare and so on to ensure traffic can get around the city and thereby provide a much better distribution network. Will the witnesses comment on that? What will be the impact of their port activity on the existing M1 and how important is the Leinster orbital route to their plans?
Mr. Paul Fleming
The maritime transport chain relies heavily not only on the maritime side but also on the landward side. It is critical, in terms of putting in place a world class port facility, that the landward links can accommodate the efficiencies of throughput being created at the port.
On the tonnage throughputs, the 50 million tonnes would be the long-term position in terms of capacity. It will build up over many years. Our transport consultants are in discussion with the National Roads Authority in terms of the linkages. We are doing research work on current traffic volumes on the M1 motorway, the interchange and also the M50. We are also examining the potential benefits of that outer orbital link road, part of which is tentatively planned to be located somewhere between Drogheda and Gormanston. Bremore would create an impetus for that greater orbital route to feed into the new port infrastructure. We are examining all those issues. It is critical from the port operation's perspective that on the landward side we do not create congestion or any pinch points. That will form part of the overall development.
It seems to be a critical part of the process that this outer orbital route will be built. Part of the problem is current Government policy which is that the outer orbital route will be examined in 2013 or 2014 but issues also arise in terms of Green Party policy — I do not expect the witnesses to make a political comment — which is that we will cease building our road network. I am in favour of this project but the Leinster orbital route is essential for it.
I laud the work Mr. Fleming is doing. It is a dynamic port compared to other ports, which are very small operations but Mr. Fleming and his colleagues have big ideas and have moved them a long way. I congratulate the witnesses on what they have done to date.
I welcome Mr. Traynor and Mr. Fleming to the meeting. Like the Drogheda Port Company I have moved from Drogheda to County Meath but I grew up with the port. My father's office was beside the port and he had many run-ins with them on the street over parking issues but I suppose they were minor.
The port is important for the economy of Drogheda but particularly for east Meath. When I alerted my constituents in the Stamullen area about this project many of them would not have been aware of it but they were favourably disposed to and excited by it in terms of investment in the area.
I wish to raise with Mr. Fleming a general point on two concerns which were raised with me, one of which is concerned with the issue of archaeology.
I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but I ask Deputy Feighan to take the Chair briefly.
Deputy Frank Feighan took the Chair.
There has been much talk about the apparent major archaeological potential of the site in question. That concerns me in terms of the project as this issue has in the past delayed projects.
A more surprising concern was from people in the Army who felt — I do not know the nature of the witnesses' contacts with the Department of Defence — there was insufficient contact with the port. I spoke to officers and not Department of Defence officials. What are the company's contacts with the Department of Defence and the Army in the context of Gormanston Army camp, which is beside the proposed port?
Mr. Patrick Traynor
To deal with the last point, the contact with the Army is ongoing. Brigadier General Dennis Murphy is the top man in the Army. He lives in Beach Park, Laytown. I meet him regularly. I have conveyed to him that nothing has been finalised because we have not got to the planning permission stage yet and until such time as that is in the arena, they should not be too concerned about what will happen at the site. There is no question about that.
Deputy Frank Fahey resumed the Chair.
Mr. Patrick Traynor
It is only a matter of time when Gormanston will probably be eliminated from their plans. I cannot be sure of this because it will be the last shooting range for practice.
That is what they are worried about. Is Ben Head and the practice that takes place there under threat from the port?
Mr. Patrick Traynor
All the people in the port are aware of Gormanston Camp. While we would not like to see it go, it was zoned originally by Meath County Council for housing but that was not accepted by the members of the council. I agree with them because it would have ended up as an isolated area on the other side of the old main road. Gormanston Camp is now zoned for industrial use and light industry, supporting the port facility. That is the main object of Meath County Council. It is between the council and others to sort it out.
Mr. Paul Fleming
The key strategic element of the operation at the Army camp is the firing range, both the landward firing range and particularly the marine one, which is unique in an Irish context. There are not many opportunities to create additional marine firing ranges.
With regard to the port operation, we are operating with the firing range in situ at Drogheda Port. There is a co-operative arrangement between the Department of Defence and the port regarding shipping arrangements. Bremore Port ultimately will not impact on the ability of Gormanston Camp to retain that strategic usage. That is different from the rest of the site, about which there are probably other questions. However, on the important element, the strategic firing range, the port could operate with it still in situ.
The committee should be aware that the facilities at the Army camp at Gormanston which is adjacent to the proposed port are very important for Army training, particularly if personnel are to go on European missions. We cannot over-emphasise its importance to the area. I hope the port authorities continue their dialogue with the Department of Defence and the Army and that both facilities will co-exist as best they can. Having spoken to various officers there, I am aware that is what the Army wants.
The other question was on the archaeology.
Mr. Paul Fleming
The archaeology is obviously very important for the development. We are approaching the matter in an up-front and professional manner. We have very good people on board. It has already been factored in as regards the location of the port. As I mentioned in my opening statement, the port has moved forward north of the head where the key archaeology is to be found. The development of the port and the development of the cultural aspects of the archaeology in situ are not mutually exclusive; we intend to ensure both are protected as we proceed. We are undertaking an appraisal of the archaeology in order that we will have detailed knowledge of what is there. It is a little sketchy in places, apart from what is recorded in terms of national monuments. However, we have employed a world class truthing system called LiDAR which has been used once or twice previously in Ireland. It is very detailed methodology used in looking at the landscape in archaeological terms. All the information will be assessed in the next couple of months and will feed back into the position and layout of the port which obviously must be sensitive to the archaeology of the area.
I have not been involved with the defence issue but understood it was policy to sell the lands in Gormanston which were originally zoned for affordable housing. I recall talking to the affordable housing partnership about them but it did not proceed. I was not aware of the military issue. Is it Government policy to maintain a military presence in the area?
Mr. Paul Fleming
I do not know if it is Government policy but it is clear from our discussions that there are two elements to the operation. A small part of the site is distinctly used as a specific military range, on the landward side and the marine side. Personnel at the Army camp have told us that it is an important strategic element of Army training.
However, it is a firing range and nothing else.
Mr. Paul Fleming
It is.
Therefore, it could be replicated.
There are other facilities at the camp, for example, the bomb disposal team for the north side of Dublin.
I am not trying to be political. If it has been Government policy for some years that the camp should no longer be located there and if it is a question of a shooting range or job creation, one cannot move the port inland but one can move the shooting range. That is my opinion. The other issue is archaeology. We have no wish to see a repetition of what happened in other places. Is the company interacting with interested groups such as Julitta Clancy of Meath Archaeological and Historical Society? The company will have to ensure it has people on-side who have an interest in the site and its preservation by recording what is there or preservation in situ if that is possible. I believe it encompasses early history and doubt there would have been much settlement on top of what was there originally. However, it is important that, if and when the company gets the go-ahead, the project is not delayed, as happened in County Meath.
Mr. Paul Fleming
Yes.
I welcome our guests. I am at a disadvantage as I do not know the area as well as my two colleagues. Drogheda Port Company is the ninth or tenth port company whose representatives have appeared before the committee and that, in itself, gives us an insight into what will happen nationally.
I recall visiting the site of Dublin Port, with the Chairman and many other members. There is an ongoing debate about that port. Some tell us it should eventually be closed down and replaced by Bremore Port, if it has the capacity. I am not an expert but I cannot envisage it being closed down for a very long time. Drogheda is a small but efficiently run port. Would it be possible to have a business connection with Dublin Port in the future? I assume that, as with most other aspects of Irish commercial life, things will never be the same again and that during the years of the Celtic tiger economy Drogheda Port Company was unable to foresee what is happening now. Does it throw the company's plans into disarray, or will the company simply proceed with its plans irrespective of what happens?
The committee must take an overall look at what is happening in all the ports. If Mr. Fleming were an outsider sitting in my position, he would wonder what future Drogheda Port has. I will play devil's advocate. It might well be the case that the Bremore project will develop but will Mr. Fleming give us some indication of the likely cost? I listened carefully to his submission and it appears it will be a very costly business, regardless of where the money comes from. Can Mr. Fleming give the committee some indication of where his company's thoughts are regarding all that?
Mr. Paul Fleming
Certainly.I will commence with the first issued raised by the Deputy. It is important to state that the strategic plan of Drogheda Port Company is twofold: to ensure the survival of Drogheda Port in future and to address the national capacity deficit. In dealing with Drogheda Port’s future, the direction in which the industry is moving has been quite clear to us for some time. Drogheda is a tidal port with certain restrictions in terms of vessel and draught size. Over the years, we have watched vessels getting larger, so fewer of them can be accommodated within the port. It is essential for Drogheda Port therefore to increase the deep water berths that are available. That is the core of the Bremore project. It is a slightly different location to the port because we commenced the process with an open vision as to how Drogheda Port should move forward.
This may sound like an innocent question, but what will the company do with the existing facilities once Bremore is up and running? What plans does the company have for them?
Mr. Paul Fleming
The port can be divided into two areas, as it operates at the moment. There is the Tom Roes Point terminal, which is the deeper water part of the port, and there are also the traditional old quays in the town. Our development strategy is twofold in terms of the two separate parts of the port. The first part of the port is going to be redeveloped in order to assist the capitalisation of development in future. It is quite clear that fewer vessels are using the town quays. Tom Roes Point is the focus at the moment for the majority of our vessel calls. In a number of years therefore the old part of the port will become defunct as a port per se.
The Tom Roes Point terminal has deeper water and it will have a niche in future in terms of certain trades based on its current draught. However, it will not be able to accommodate the container trade in particular because that market is accelerating quickly in terms of draught.
Bremore is focused on the unitised part of the business. Some 80% of the business through Bremore will be unitised, while 20% will be bulk and general cargo. As it is now, Drogheda Port will operate using deep water quays at Tom Roes Point for certain niche trades, such as bulk, general and paper.
I have one final question. We have encountered problems among some of the other ports concerning foreshore and dredging licences. Can Mr. Fleming comment on any difficulties his company may have in that respect? The committee sent a questionnaire seeking detailed information on wages, which we need for comparative purposes with other ports. We also need details of any contracts awarded. We would like to have that data back as soon as possible.
Mr. Patrick Traynor
I raised that point in my statement of 31 December 2008, as follows:
On behalf of the board I would like to bring to the attention of the shareholder the unacceptable and unsatisfactory foreshore application process. It is the view of the board that this process requires immediate reform as it is having a detrimental impact on the company's ability to progress development at a commercial pace.
Can Mr. Traynor give the committee a written resumé of the company's experiences in this area, so that we can put that to the departmental officials? I am aware of events since my own time as a Minister, and of the frustrations that exist.
Mr. Patrick Traynor
It is not good because that Department was moved to Clonakilty in County Cork. The people who were put into it came from all walks of life and were nearing retirement. That offer was made to people who wanted to move to other Departments. They would not have a profound knowledge of the port industry. Despite the fact the CEO and harbour-master were down there with them and made their views known, we heard absolutely nothing.
Mr. Traynor should spell out some of those details, including the company's applications for various approvals, the length of time it has taken, the general procrastination and the bureaucracy that surrounds this situation. We want to try to deal effectively with this issue in the context of our report.
Mr. Paul Fleming
On a final note, there is a clear view from the majority of ports that the foreshore issue should be addressed by the Government in terms of the ports being able to control the foreshore within their jurisdictions. Legislatively, we have control of all other geographical elements of the port, per se, but outside of that it is the foreshore which is used commercially.
Mr. Fleming should give the committee a proposal on what he feels would be beneficial and we will take it on board.
I thank the delegation for attending and we wish them the best of luck. I support the principle of a development in Bremore, which should have a synergy with Dublin. Dublin Port will continue to have a key role in many respects, but future development should take place outside Dublin for a variety of reasons. There should be a careful synergy in that respect. We are due to get a report from the Department on that matter, which will be interesting when it becomes available. We look forward to debating that at a later stage.
We will adjourn for a few minutes to allow the witnesses to leave and members of the Rural Transport Network delegation to take their places.
Sitting suspended at 4.50 p.m. and resumed at 5 p.m.