Joint Committee on Transport and Communications debate -
Wednesday, 9 Jul 2014

Bus Éireann: Chairman Designate

Chairman

The purpose of the meeting is to engage with the chairpersons designate of Bus Éireann, Iarnród Éireann and CIE in order to discuss the approaches that will be taken when they are appointed to their roles and the challenges facing the companies. Members will be aware of the Government's decision in May 2011 to put new arrangements in place for the appointment of persons to State boards and bodies. The committee welcomes the opportunity to meet the chairpersons designate to hear their views. We trust this will give greater transparency to the process of appointment to State boards and bodies. We will meet, first, Mr. Aidan Murphy, chairperson designate of Bus Éireann, whom I welcome on behalf of the committee.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I also advise that any submission or opening statement submitted will be published on the committee's website after the meeting. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I apologise for the delay in starting. We were dealing with private business. As we have two other interviews, we will try to confine this part of the meeting to approximately 40 minutes.

Mr. Aidan Murphy

I am very pleased to have been asked by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, to become chairman of Bus Éireann. I also thank the Chairman, Deputy John O'Mahony, and members of the joint committee for the invitation to come before them.

I am a native of County Wicklow, although I have lived in County Tipperary for the past eight years. I was educated at Presentation College, Bray and University College, Dublin, where I studied science and undertook a H.Dip before commencing a career as a science and maths teacher. I obtained a junior transport and warehouse role at Albright & Wilson at the start of the 1980s and progressed my career in transport, logistics and supply chain management through appointments as logistics director at Allegro, group head of supply chain at Fyffes, general manager at Wincanton Ireland, managing director of supply at C&C Group and chief executive officer at Pulse Logistics. I was honoured to be elected president and a fellow of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport Ireland. I have extensive experience as a senior executive and a supply chain professional. I have been a keynote speaker at several European supply chain events, as well as a member of the judging panel for the European Supply Chain Awards. I was privileged to be appointed a director of Bus Éireann in April 2013 and have served on the audit review group and commercial and innovation committees; therefore, I am acutely aware of the issues facing the company.

Bus Éireann operates three businesses within one entity, namely, public service obligation, PSO, services in urban, commuter and rural areas; commercial services, primarily, Expressway services; and the school transport scheme. The main remit of Bus Éireann’s extensive network is to connect communities throughout the country with efficient, reliable services, while focusing on innovation through technology and investment in fleet and customer facilities. PSO services, in particular, are an essential component of the Government's transport strategy for provincial rural Ireland.

Bus Éireann had an annual turnover of €324 million in 2013, recording an overall surplus of €400,000. This was achieved in very challenging conditions and delivered through growth in core revenue, with significant payroll savings and the continuation of a range of efficiency measures.

The public service obligation, PSO, payment of €34.4 million in 2013 has been reduced by €15 million or 30% in the last five years and will reduce to €32 million in 2014, but passenger revenue, excluding schools, has increased by €5 million since 2011. In 2013, the company carried over 78 million passengers. Passenger numbers on PSO and Expressway services increased by 0.4 million journeys and schools passenger journeys increased by 0.7 million. These positive trends are continuing in 2014 with passenger numbers growing ahead of economic indicators, while operational costs, despite significant increases in fuel costs, have been reducing and customer satisfaction remains at a very high level.

Bus Éireann provides direct employment to nearly 2,500 employees across the country and supports the employment of a further 7,500 among suppliers and subcontracted service providers across its network of services. The company has been in survival mode in the past few years but it has worked through this difficult period while delivering on all commitments to the National Transport Authority, NTA, the Department of Education and Skills and in creating a framework for a sustainable public transport system. The return on commercial Expressway services has improved, while still serving many locations in Ireland at no additional cost to the State and absorbing overheads in rural depots that would have to be allocated to PSO services. Expressway is providing an integrated inter-regional connectivity, in particular where no rail services exist, helping to defray costs for public services.

There are four main challenges for Bus Éireann arising from the recently agreed five year comprehensive strategic plan to invest further in the business, grow profitability and deliver a best-in-class public service transport offering. The first key challenge is to grow revenue and passenger numbers, through focused investment and increasing financial sustainability across the range of Bus Éireann products. We must continue to work in partnership with the NTA to negotiate and deliver the best possible public transport offering for PSO services provided under direct award contract through passenger and capacity growth on the core network along with fleet and facilities replacement. We must reposition the Expressway brand along with network improvements for faster journey times and more competitive fares to improve profitability and provide funds for reinvestment. Third, we must deliver further cost savings in the provision of school transport services, including the introduction of a new information technology, IT, system, while continuing to provide all the services required by the Department of Education and Skills. Fourth, we must identify opportunities for new revenue streams, particularly in international markets.

The second challenge is to continue to build a competitive cost base across all products to maintain competitiveness and ensure flexibility of customer service delivery. The focus must be on delivering a safe, sustainable and competitive cost base with increased operational efficiencies and operational key performance indicators, KPIs, to meet market requirements which are benchmarked against best international practice. One key requirement will be to work in a practical way with the NTA regarding the tendering of 10% of the direct award contract by the end of 2015 in order to ensure a cost neutral impact on the company and minimise the impact on staff.

The third challenge is to enhance relationships with customers, partners and stakeholders across the community to further improve customer satisfaction and Bus Éireann’s corporate reputation. Bus Éireann has a proud tradition of local transport delivery, working with local stakeholders and suppliers to keep public transport close to the community. A renewed and invigorated customer focus is essential to grow public transport across the country.

The fourth main challenge is to have a fully engaged, informed and committed workforce with the right skills and competencies to grow the business in a safe and effective manner in line with evolving market requirements.

In conclusion, I look forward to working with the Minister, the Departments, the NTA, the CIE chairman and the Bus Éireann board and management to grow public transport in a sustainable, safe and efficient manner and to put in place an investment framework that makes it happen.

Chairman

Thank you. I ask members to confine their contributions to questions and to three or four minutes, if possible, as I wish to let everybody contribute. I call Deputy Dooley.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I thank Mr. Murphy for his presentation. I and my party fully support his appointment as chairperson. Obviously, it is for the Minister to move the appointment from designate to actual chairperson but the fact that he has identified Mr. Murphy as the chairperson designate appears to suggest that his appointment will be confirmed, and rightly so. Given the time he has been involved with the board, Mr. Murphy has a deep understanding of the issues facing the company. His qualifications and general understanding of public transport will bring the type of insight that is required to the company, which is clearly going through a transition.

There are a couple of issues that I ask Mr. Murphy to address. One is the challenge posed by the potential loss of the school transport business. There has been an ongoing challenge to the way the Department of Education and Skills contracts with Bus Éireann for school transport services. I am not commenting on the decision of the Department in that regard, but has the board or the incoming chairperson given any consideration to the potential of losing that business at some stage? If so, how would it impact on the viability of the company?

Second, Mr. Murphy is aware that State subvention has been reducing over a period of time, in line with the current economic situation. Coupled with that, there has been a general increase in fares for public transport. What is his view of the theory of elasticity in regard to the pricing of tickets? Does he believe we have reached a point beyond which further fare increases would lead to a shift away from public transport and back into the car, which clearly none of us wants?

Third, is Mr. Murphy aware of any issues that pose significant risk to Bus Éireann in the immediate or medium term?

Mr. Aidan Murphy

First, school transport revenue represents just over 50% of Bus Éireann revenue, so it is a very significant part. That said, we run it on behalf of the Department. It is cost neutral from the point of the company in that respect. However, it links in with the three specific entities within Bus Éireann and for that reason it is important. Untangling that would obviously have very significant impacts. We do not anticipate, at this point, that the business will be lost to us. We are certainly working very hard with the Department to improve further the cost base, cost competitiveness, IT systems, renew the fleet and so forth. We recently put in place a new online system for parents to make bookings for children. At all times we are bringing innovation to the service. In the final analysis, we believe the service we are offering to the Department will stand scrutiny from any other competitors that might wish to consider it. Certainly, in an international context we are well regarded in that area.

With regard to the reduction in the subvention, unfortunately we are dealing with the reality of the current position. Despite the positive signals emanating regarding the economy, and we all wish that will continue to be the case, we are under no illusion that there are still difficult times ahead. It is not simply going to be a case of rolling back to further levels of subvention. That is why we have a very strong emphasis on the competitiveness of the company and making it as competitive as possible, both to provide the best value PSO services on the one hand and, second, to provide an Expressway service that generates sufficient profits to allow us to reinvest in the product.

Our five-year plan envisages that, from our resources, we will reinvest €50 million in the fleet. The average age of our vehicles on the PSO and Expressway service is of the order of six to seven years. Given that we do 167 million km per year, people can imagine the distance travelled by each vehicle. As they grow older, maintenance becomes a significant cost, and this has an impact on the profit and loss. We will work with the National Transport Authority, NTA, and the Government. Within the subvention levels, we would like to have the maximum we can but we are working to make ourselves as cost-competitive as we can to meet the challenges. There are many challenges for the company in the coming years. We are under no illusions. In the area of competitiveness, 10% of our award will be contracted by the NTA at the end of 2015. At the end of 2019, a new regime with regard to direct award will come into play. We believe we will be well placed from the competitive perspective to manage any competition that will arise.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I apologise as I have to leave the meeting.

Deputy Paudie Coffey

I thank Mr. Murphy for coming before the committee and I thank him for serving on the board of Bus Éireann since April 2013. With regard to feedback, I never had a complaint about the Expressway service. It is an efficient service and I have used it. It is welcome that further investment will be made in the service. Are there plans to utilise smart technology to inform customers or attract more customers to the services? A high percentage of people use smartphones and it would be beneficial to do so. Wi-Fi is available on the Expressway service. Using an app to inform customers about pick-ups, drop-offs and cost helps to attract more customers. Comfort and the adequacy of the service is also important.

I refer to the PSO service. There are major challenges for Bus Éireann and nationally as regards our public transport service. Public buses in our cities have been heavily subsidised, which is also the case internationally where public transport is provided in cities. There is a global subsidy. Perhaps Mr. Murphy can explain how we compare with other cities internationally.

I come from Waterford, some of whose services are run by private operators and are not subsidised. There is controversy with the rest of the services in Waterford city being put out to tender as part of the 10% put out to tender by the NTA. Is Mr. Murphy confident that Bus Éireann can compete for the services when they are put out to tender in 2016? Are there challenges he envisages in trying to win the services?

I do not hear concerns from the public, as the public only wants an efficient public transport service. It is not a major concern of the public who provides the service. There is loyalty to Bus Éireann and I would like to see the company compete. I would like to hear the views of Mr. Murphy on this point.

Mr. Aidan Murphy

With regard to the Expressway service, I can confirm that we are making significant changes to the ICT system to be able to manage the apps to which the Deputy refers. At the start of the year we appointed a chief commercial officer, who was working very hard to bring into play the modern technology that gives customers up-to-date information and make travelling on the Expressway service more streamlined. Members may have noticed some of our new coach livery on the Expressway service, which is being rolled out. New vehicles are coming into the fleet at the end of this year and the start of next year, and people will see a higher level of service. It is our aim to provide the best level of service on the Expressway routes and to compete with other operators to provide a seamless, modern and efficient transport system.

The Deputy is correct in respect of the PSO in that we are in a competitive situation. We accept and understand it and we accept that the customer is interested in the service and does not care a great deal about who provides it. Having said that, there is a degree of brand loyalty to Bus Éireann because it operates in almost every parish in the country. The closeness to the community gives loyalty to the brand that is different to other operators. On the one hand, we want to retain that, but on the other, we want to be as competitive as we can in providing services that customers demand. At the same time, we must respect the taxpayer. If the subvention is reduced, it is taxpayers' funds and we must be conscious of it.

I cannot provide the figures from other jurisdictions on subsidies. In most jurisdictions there is a certain level of subsidisation for services. With over 4 million inhabitants on the island, we have over 11 million vehicles. This amounts to approximately 4,000 citizens per vehicle on the road. Taking out the large conurbation of Dublin and spreading the remainder over the country, this gives an idea of the sparse population areas we must deal with in terms of the PSO. If we want to provide a certain level of service, there is a cost. We must either transparently decide what is the cost and how it will be funded or decide that we will not provide the service. We will be as competitive as we can but there is a danger in going to a range of competitive situations. We have seen this in the airline industry. Many operators came into the airline industry to provide lower fares and many of them went out very quickly. There must be a sustainable business model that works in the longer term. We must recognise that if we want a level of service to satisfy the needs of rural Ireland, and Bus Éireann is in favour of that, we must be transparent about its cost and how that cost is allocated. That is why we are working closely with the NTA to provide a level of service, to increase services where we can and to increase frequency, increase journeys and put the focus on the customer. There is a cost to this and we must recognise that.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

I thank Mr. Murphy. Like Deputy Timmy Dooley, I agree that Mr. Murphy's experience and qualifications render him suitable for the post of chairman of Bus Éireann. Bus Éireann is a trusted and well-regarded company, which goes a long way for any business. I foresee risks facing the company in terms of the privatisation of routes, particularly where companies can cherry-pick the more profitable routes. Can Mr. Murphy comment on this?

The presentation referred to Bus Éireann operating three businesses within one entity, PSO services, commercial services and school transport schemes. I understand why school transport is shown separately but I do not understand why PSO urban, commuter and rural transport is shown separately from commercial services. It might be regarded as a fatalistic acceptance that we cannot have commercially viable services in urban or rural areas. Perhaps Mr. Murphy can tease out that point.

Every Deputy receives representations from parents about some of the rigid rules of the Department of Education and Skills with regard to the school transport service.

I am sure drivers, inspectors and people in the field hear this from parents also. Is there an opportunity for Mr. Murphy's people to sit down with the Department of Education and Skills to talk through how it is working, the disappointment for some parents and students and some of what appear to be fairly silly things where a bus drives by somebody's house but the person has to travel in order to get the bus? Is there the opportunity for that sort of discussion in order to fine tune the service and make it a bit more sensible?

Is the €0.4 million surplus after provision for fleet replacement and upgrade or is there a totally separate capital expenditure heading for fleet replacement and upgrade?

What time commitment does Mr. Murphy envisage will be required of him in order to fulfil this role? Does he have other commitments in terms of chairmanships or memberships of other boards which will compete for that time?

Mr. Aidan Murphy

I will deal with the PSO first and with why it is separate. We want to be very transparent about our operation. The Expressway service is a commercial operation and it should, and will, make a profit to generate further funds for investment, and I will come back to that in a moment.

In discussions with the NTA, the regulator, we need to be able to clearly show the PSO services and how that is structured. It is not a fatalistic view but rather about being transparent with the NTA about how we are managing our business so there is clarity about where the subvention is going and what it is being used for. We would want to get into further discussions with the NTA about further clarity in that regard in order to demonstrate that certain routes will require certain levels of subvention which comes back to the question about cherry-picking.

There is a real danger routes could be cherry-picked. Obviously, we will want to compete with any other service providers to manage to get those routes because we believe we have built up an expertise and an involvement with the community that will help us. However, if one cherry-picks all of the profitable routes, one is left with a number of routes which will require even greater subvention, so there is a balancing act there. At the moment, the subvention is one sum of money for the PSO operation. It does not follow the particular routes where a greater element of subvention is necessary. Maybe that is what will happen in time. One must recognise that certain routes might be desirable from a social point of view but from a cost point of view, they are very significant in terms of subvention cost. It is purely from the point of view of transparency and how we face into the future restructured direct award situation that we want to be clear about that.

In regard to school transport, the Deputy is right that there is a lot of dialogue between Bus Éireann, as the provider, and the Department of Education and Skills. The Department of Education and Skills lays down the rules and regulations in regard to how it should operate and we operate it on its behalf. Having said that, our staff have regular updates with the Department, they feed back any information we have and any of the feedback we get from our inspectors on the ground and so on. I could not tell the Deputy definitely but I understand from presentations made to the board, there is quite a degree of understanding on both sides and, as a result, changes which both sides believe are necessary are then implemented. However, I could not give the Deputy chapter and verse on that.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Mr. Murphy feels it is there.

Mr. Aidan Murphy

I feel it is there.

In regard to the capital investment, the €400,000 is actually our net profit at the end of last year. We are, for example, investing more than €9 million in new fleet from our own resources this year. We have been grant aided €25 million by the NTA for investment in the PSO fleet. All of the time, we are trying to build up the reserves and build up the profitability to reinvest in the fleet and to bring down the average age of the fleet which, at the end of the day, is essential to provide a sustainable business model going forward.

In regard to my own time, I do not have any other directorships but that is not to say that might not happen in time. Right now, I act as a consultant on my own behalf and, therefore, I have the time available to give. At the end of the day, I am not an executive in charge of the company. I will operate on a part-time basis but it is the management team, myself, as chairman, and the board who will direct the strategy and ensure the corporate governance within the organisation is second to none. That is where I see my brief. I can assure the Deputy time will not be a barrier.

Chairman

I call Deputy Seán Kenny.

Deputy Seán Kenny

I thank Mr. Murphy for appearing before the committee. His CV is impressive and his background in supply and logistics and his membership of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport make him a suitable person for the job. Mr. Murphy mentioned bringing down the average age of the fleet. What is the average age of the fleet currently? Deputy Coffey asked about apps. I know Dublin Bus has an app because I live in a Dublin constituency where somebody standing at a bus stop can find out what time the next bus is due by using an app. Does Bus Éireann have a similar type of app? I represent a constituency which does not have Bus Éireann services but I am aware that a large percentage of commuters from Meath, Kildare and Wicklow come to Dublin to work every day using Bus Éireann or their cars. How would Mr. Murphy propose to persuade somebody who currently travels in and out of the city by car to switch to public transport?

Mr. Aidan Murphy

The average age of the fleet at the moment, between PSO and Expressway vehicles, is just seven years, or 6.7 to be precise. For the total kilometerage we are doing, that is really high. I am not saying it is unacceptable but, for example, it is at the level where we are beginning to experience significant overruns in some of our maintenance costs this year. At the end of the day, it is like kicking the can down the road. If one delays decisions like that, it starts to pop up at a later stage and then it affects one's profitability in later years, which affects one's ability to reinvest. One has to confront these things as one goes along. Obviously, because we have been through a very difficult period of time over the past number of years, decisions have been made to put off some of the reinvestment decisions but we are moving back towards reinvestment and we hope over a period of time to bring the average age down.

We have apps. For example, one can now use an app on one's mobile telephone. If one buys a ticket online, one can use an app to scan through as one boards the bus. However, we are developing further refinements, which will be very interesting going forward.

In regard to moving people from their own transport to public transport, there are a number of things one has to do. It has to be cost effective. Congestion is beginning to reappear in the greater Dublin area. For example, our drivers are experiencing congestion starting to creep back in once they reach the outskirts of the greater Dublin area. That is delaying some of the transit times. One has to be able to convince commuters that there is a better and a more relaxed way to travel where they can do some work using WiFi and read the newspapers. They will want a modern fleet with facilities, efficiency of service and connectivity. They will want to be sure that if they arrive at a bus stop at 7.20 a.m., the bus will be there and not at 7.19 a.m. or 7.21 a.m. Being able to rely on the service is key for people who have busy lives. Obviously, there is some discomfort in bad weather but we believe all the other benefits outweigh using one's own car to come into the city, in particular.

Chairman

If it is okay, we will take questions from Deputies Harrington and Griffin and Senator Sullivan together as we are under time constraints. I call Deputy Harrington.

Deputy Noel Harrington

I welcome Mr. Murphy. He outlined his qualifications and work experience in his presentation. From his previous work experience in logistics it is evident that he is qualified for the position. Much of the work in delivering a bus service is unseen. Consumers have very little idea of the amount of work that goes into ensuring the bus arrives on time.

Mr. Murphy has stated that his focus has to be on delivering a safe, sustainable and competitive cost base with increased operational efficiencies. He has identified the challenges as the public service obligation, PSO, and the school transport service.

I wish to focus on how Bus Éireann will deal with the challenges of increasing fares. Mr. Murphy's position is the public face of Bus Éireann, but in his drive to achieve efficiencies and competitiveness, issues such as fare increases and industrial relations are in the mix. How does he propose to deal effectively with the company, the executive, unions and the public in delivering a service?

Mr. Aidan Murphy

We make an application and discuss it with the NTA but we are bound by the NTA, which is the final arbiter of the fare process.

As a matter of course, Bus Éireann does not wish to increase fares but at the same time if subventions are being decreased but the levels of service that consumers are demanding are increasing, clearly there must be a place in the middle to take account of it. We will have the discussions with the NTA on how the PSO services develop. There is an element that if one can manage the fares process correctly, one might be able to gain further passengers on buses, which would reduce the cost.

As I said earlier in response to another question, the spread of the population does not always give Bus Éireann the opportunity to be able to run certain routes on an efficient basis. If one wants to run routes to fill a social dimension, there is a cost element to that. The cost element will either be in individual fares paid by the consumer on the day or by increased subvention which is paid through taxes. There is a balance and that is something for Government to discuss and on which to make decisions. We will obviously have an input into the NTA and develop as best we can the most competitive model. If we are as competitive as possible then that should start to reduce the need for fare increases.

I am very clear on industrial relations. As far as I am concerned if one has a fully engaged and committed workforce, industrial relations issues can always be dealt with. That is not to say there are no challenges for the company ahead. We have had a great many discussions with our employees in the past period of time and we recognise and understand they have taken some pain in their wage levels and so on. That is necessary if the company is to survive going into the future. The most important point is that employees understand the strategy, and the reason for it in a very transparent way and what I have found from my experience is that employees will actual move with the company in that regard. One is better to do that, talk upfront, be honest and clear with employees, they will come in the main with the company. We have been rolling out our strategic plan and doing employee engagement surveys to gauge how our employees feel, whether they feel engaged by the company. We have more than 2,500 employees spread across the country and communications can be an issue because of the spread of the employee base. I believe from my experience that this is the best way of developing a strong ethos within employees to bring the company forward.

Deputy Brendan Griffin

I thank Mr. Murphy for coming before the committee to make his presentation to members.

Very often what we hear about Bus Éireann is negative and relates to problematic situations. The system that operates in and out and within County Kerry is effective and serves the needs of the community as best as possible within realistic levels. Of course, there is always room for improvement and to do things better. My contacts with Bus Éireann, employees and with the company representatives have always been very positive.

I have three questions about savings, areas where more money could be spent and technology. Has Mr. Murphy and his team considered the new technology in terms of fuel efficiency devices that can be fitted to HGVs and buses that will reduce the fuel consumption levels by up to 10% in some cases? Obviously the fuel bill for buses must be enormous and anything that could reduce it will produce significant savings for the company. Has Mr. Murphy considered this or would he consider it if he was to be pointed in the right direction?

If the company were achieving savings in this area, it might be able to spend more money on bus shelters. I appreciate they are expensive, that the company must apply for planning permission and that the process takes time. The bus shelter in Killorglin will be ready shortly but I remember campaigning for it in 2002 when I was a student and people have been waiting for 12 years since then. We live in a very wet climate and in towns and villages throughout the country there are no shelters. Is it possible that Mr. Murphy will be able to focus more on this? I am not suggesting that we erect similar shelters to those in urban areas in rural towns and villages but a very tasteful shelter has been put in place in Dingle with the theme of an upturned currach forming the roof. One can use other materials rather than plastic and glass. A bus shelter would prevent customers getting wet while waiting for buses.

Transport apps have changed things significantly. How does Mr. Murphy envisage Bus Éireann moving forward on that front in the next number of years?

Chairman

I will call Deputy O'Sullivan. I am sorry; Senator Ned O'Sullivan.

Senator Ned O'Sullivan

I thank the Chairman for the promotion.

Chairman

As the Senator knows, it is a day of promotions.

Senator Ned O'Sullivan

I welcome Mr. Murphy and thank him for appearing before the committee. As a Kerryman, I agree in the main with what Deputy Griffin had to say about the effectiveness of the service in our county. I have a particular bugbear, which I raised recently in the Seanad, but without any great satisfaction. Let me recount this little anecdote, to which I invite Mr. Murphy to respond. A friend of mine got the train from Heuston Station to Casement Station in Tralee and wanted to continue his journey to Listowel, a distance of about 18 miles. The train and bus stations share a common yard. He found, having come off the train, that the bus had left for Listowel about five minutes earlier. The next bus would come in several hours time so he got a taxi to Listowel, which cost him more than the train fare from Dublin. He subsequently contacted Bus Éireann to complain but he was told that Bus Éireann does not run a connecting service. Is there any way that the bus and train service could be tailored to the needs of those who use both forms of transport? It is not good for business for Bus Éireann if customers off the train must take a taxi when a better timetable would enable people to go from train to bus, which one would expect to be the norm?

Mr. Aidan Murphy

On the question of savings from fuel efficiency, as I said earlier, we are investing in a new fleet and during the procurement process we looked at the best method consistent with new EU regulations on engines and so on to maximise the efficiency of the vehicles. In addition, we have speed governors fitted to all our vehicles which control speeds and gives us an opportunity to ensure that one cannot drive at excessive speeds.

We have telematics in the vehicles which allow us to see driving patterns. One can use those telematics to see what the best driving patterns are and then start educating drivers about them. That system has been used in other companies in which I have been involved. If two of us go down the road, I guarantee that one of us will operate the vehicle more efficiently. We are very interested in this matter. As the Chairman rightly said, our fuel costs are very high so we will certainly make any savings on them that we can.

We are bound and involved with the NTA on the provision of bus shelters, so we cannot decide to erect a bus stop or shelter any more. They are no longer specific to Bus Éireann, although some of them are specifically Bus Éireann shelters. We have been in dialogue with the NTA about the provision of further bus stops, bus shelters and real-time passenger information. We want to make savings on the one hand, but will continue to work with the NTA on that.

We want to develop app technology so that people can use it in a paperless fashion. That is our objective. Many airlines are now using that technology and we want to get it also. The modern generation uses mobile phones and are not going to bring pieces of paper with them. For that reason, it makes sense to use new technology which is cost effective.

Chairman

I apologise to Mr. Murphy but I have to leave the meeting. Deputy Coffey will take over as Vice Chairman.

Deputy Paudie Coffey took the Chair.

Mr. Aidan Murphy

The Senator mentioned a story and I understand the frustration that particular passenger must have felt. We must be able to have a better system of connectivity. There are mainline train and expressway bus services, but there needs to be good connectivity at in-between points. I cannot comment on the individual event that took place and I am not sure about what will need to happen. I strongly believe, however, that there needs to be an interconnected service. Going back to Deputy Seán Kenny's question, consumers can be enticed to use public transport if they believe there is an interconnected network that goes seamlessly from train to bus and so on.

There are two companies involved but, nevertheless, we come under the same CIE group umbrella. I will look into the particular incident to see what solution might lead to further potential opportunities.

Vice Chairman

That concludes that session. On behalf of the joint committee, I wish to thank Mr. Murphy for appearing before us today and engaging in this informative discussion. I propose that a copy of the transcript of today's discussion should be forwarded to the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport for his information and consideration. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Sitting suspended at 11.23 a.m. and resumed at 11.25 a.m.