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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 21 Feb 1923

Vol. 1 No. 12

POSITION OF SECONDARY TEACHERS.

I beg to move the following motion standing in my name:—"That, in view of the grave unrest amongst all sections of Lay Secondary Teachers employed in Irish Intermediate Schools working under the Ministry of Education, on the grounds of inadequate remuneration, absence of pension arrangements, and insecurity of tenure, the Seanad requests the Minister of Education to give the earliest possible attention to the question, with a view to the early extension to this important section of the teaching profession of rates of pay and conditions of employment more commensurate with the services rendered than at present seems to be the case."

This motion should not require any elaborate statement or closely reasoned argument to commend it for adoption. One can only feel ashamed of the responsible authority, and ashamed of the country generally, that there should be a necessity for having to move a motion of this kind at this stage. We have heard and read much about the obvious necessity of raising our educational standards to the highest possible level. Everybody seemed to be agreed as to the necessity for giving greater educational facilities in the primary, secondary and higher stages, and in attracting to the teaching profession men and women of the ability and character calculated to give training to the pupils likely to make them good citizens. No one, with any sense of responsibility, has attempted to minimise the importance of the position which our Intermediate schools occupy in the chain of education. Not only are they the feeders of our Universities, but, in the vast majority of cases, they also of necessity constitute the final stages in the education of the young men and women of the country. They have very good reason to be proud of their work. Year after year they turn out into the world thousands of pupils, male and female, with an intellectual equipment and general training which are a credit alike to the teachers and to the pupils themselves.

It is safe to say that the preponderating majority of the Civil Service, Banking and Commercial appointments in the country are held by people who completed their education in the Intermediate schools. Consequently it is unnecessary to dilate upon the importance of the profession responsible for this vital national work. They require to be people with high educational qualifications. They must have the gift and the technical ability of imparting their knowledge to others, and they must be, or at least they should be, people of a high mental and moral standard, so that they may teach not only by precept but also by example. If we judge by results it is quite evident that the Irish Secondary Teachers enjoy at least a share of these very necessary qualifications. Yet how do we value the services of such people as an important national asset? How do we assist them to devote themselves whole-heartedly to their work and to give their attention of a personal character, to the intricate and delicate task they are entrusted with? A few figures will show, I think, more effectively than anything else the manner in which the services of Secondary Teachers are valued by a people so fond of talking histrionically about the Island of Saints and Scholars. I do not know, personally, whether the Saints ever had any material existence, but if they had they must have all died or emigrated. It is clear, however, that there are yet a few scholars and the wherewithal to make scholars. This is how their services are valued by the Nation. For the year 1921-1922 the average salaries paid to lay Secondary Teachers in Ireland in Intermediate schools was only £175. This is merely an arbitrary figure, too, because there are no fixed scales in operation. There are scores of men with high educational qualifications and with long service to their credit and they are paid only a salary of £160 a year at the present time. Fancy offering a salary of that kind to a man or woman requiring a College training and possessing the abilities necessary for a teacher of Intermediate education!

Although, on the whole, adverse to making comparisons between one set of workers as against another, I think it will help to show the cruel and deplorable manner in which Secondary Teachers have been treated by mentioning a few figures regarding the rates of pay of other grades of workers whose work is not more important from a national point of view than the Secondary Teachers. Male National Teachers employed in the National Schools start at a salary of £170 a year and go up to £370 a year in the eighteenth year of service. This means that a teacher starting in a National School at the age of 22 or 23, gets as high a salary as the Secondary Teacher with 20 or 30 years' service to his credit. Nobody will seriously assert that National teachers are paid too highly, but this being taken for granted what a commentary it is upon the miserable salary paid to a Secondary teacher! Irish bank clerks rise to £450, with a bonus regulated according to the cost of living. Dublin Corporation clerks have a salary and bonus of £455 in their twenty-second year of service, and the Dublin County Council clerks go to about £450, with some bonus attached. The rank and file member of the Civic Guard starts at a salary of £178 a year. The Dublin Corporation street workers have £195 a year. I only quote these figures to show the cruel and inexcusable manner in which Secondary lay teachers in Irish Secondary Schools are treated.

Would the figures mentioned include the cost of living bonus or not?

In some cases mentioned they do not. In the case of bank clerks the salary is £450, with a bonus regulated on the cost of living according as it rises or falls. In the case of the Secondary teacher the salary is a basic salary. They have had no bonus except last year, when their position was somewhat relieved by the payment of a bonus of £50, but for the coming year no provision whatever has been made. In addition, they have no pension arrangements, and it is hardly necessary to say that a person living on £175, and possibly trying to support his family on that, can make no provision for the time when infirmity or old age will render him unfit for future work. In addition, they have no security of tenure. Though their work may be of the very highest order, they are liable to have their services dispensed with on three months' notice, and in many cases even that notice is not necessary. New Regulations have recently been introduced rendering it necessary for Secondary Teachers to have a University degree diploma in education and three years' approved experience before they are entitled to Registration as Secondary Teachers. It is hardly likely that there would be a great rush of suitable people who will go to the expense and the work involved of preparing themselves as such with a prospective salary in the end of £175, with unemployment constantly in the background, and with no pension to look forward to when they are no longer able to work. It is quite clear that in these circumstances there is a serious danger of a shortage of teachers in these particular schools, or a danger of people only of an entirely unsuitable character offering themselves, and the result will have the most far-reaching and disastrous consequences for the children of the Nation. A new programme is to come into force about next September, and the teachers rightly claim that a corollary of this new programme should be improved conditions of employment. A case has been brought to my notice, and I believe it is only typical of more than one, of a Secondary Teacher dying in a workhouse hospital. He was only saved from a pauper's burial by the generosity of his impoverished colleagues. I suggest that this condition of affairs is a disgrace to those responsible, and is a shame and menace to the people of the Nation as a whole. It has been the proud boast of our historians that in ancient days in Ireland the aristocracy of intellect was placed on an equality— on an equal level with the aristocracy of birth, wealth and military renown. Bards and teachers figure almost as prominently on the pages of Irish history as the kings and chieftains. They were the guests of rulers, and they were respected and admired by all sections of the people. Has the national outlook altered to such an extent that to-day their services are valued at a lower price than the services of the man who sweeps our streets?

In Saorstát Eireann there are about twelve hundred or thirteen hundred Secondary Teachers altogether, of which about fifty per cent. are lay teachers. The amount necessary to give them a fairly decent standard of existence is, in view of the services they render, comparatively negligible. Poverty brings many disadvantages and sufferings in its train to those who fall under its yoke, irrespective of their education or training; but it is safe to say that it falls much heavier on those who are sufficiently educated to realise to the full the many good and useful and beautiful things they have lost by their poverty. It is always a pathetic spectacle to see a man or a woman with high intellectual attainments, with a wide knowledge of literature and art and science, an asset and an ornament and a delight to society, without, at the same time, the wherewithal to live in decent apartments, to purchase the raiment necessary to make them comfortable or presentable, or the food to support themselves and their families. You can easily see the bad effect such a spectacle can have upon the impressionable minds of the youths whose education is entrusted to the care of such people. It is easy also to fancy the cynical outlook upon life which such a condition of abject poverty produces in the mind of the teacher, and he, in turn, can quite unwittingly impart this cynical outlook to receptive youthful minds entrusted to his care. Therefore, from the point of view of justice, from the viewpoint of statesmanship and of nation-building, and in the interest of the young boys and girls who will constitute the men and women of the future, it is only right and proper that this condition of affairs should be discontinued, and that there should be established in its place a set of conditions more befitting a people who, in their greatest tribulations, in their sorrows and in their joys, have always paid a tribute of homage at the shrine of learning and knowledge.

I desire earnestly to second the resolution proposed. I feel quite sure that there is no one here who needs any earnest appeal for the cause of the teachers. I am familiar with two things. One is the history of learning in Ireland which has a story more remarkable than that of any country in Europe. I am, also unhappily, familiar with the dense ignorance which has been the cause of many of our misfortunes now. I feel that after the long suffering, and the limitations which were imposed upon education by the foreigners, that we should now show that we have a serious purpose, and a real intention to make a country worthy of the old history of Ireland. I do not know whether I should propose that a Committee should be appointed of this Seanad who should have power to call into consultation other people so as to devise or advise upon a scheme. How we are to work this out must be considered by those who are more capable in actual affairs than I am. This Seanad should wipe cut the reproach throughout the Free State that there should be any hindrance to learning. We should recognise what I have learned in the course of many years in England that there are no teachers so esteemed as the Irish. They have a quality, they have always had it, and they have it still. Our first effort should be to preserve here for the upraising of our own people, and the making of Ireland worthy of the Free State the teachers that we are sending to other countries. I do not know whether to propose that a Committee should be appointed. Perhaps others may consider that point, but that the question should be one of those most earnestly considered by us I have no doubt.

The mover in his opening remarks said, I think, that education was being thrust somewhat into the background out of public sight at present. I venture to suggest that finance is not allowed to occupy a very important place, and that the balancing of our Budget is even more important than is the admittedly urgent question of adequate salaries. It is very hard as a practical body—and I try to look at this from a practical point of view— to deal with this ad hoc, separated from the general question of our financial resources. For that reason, and in order to show the Government that we do realise the practical aspect of this problem—we must pay cur way, and you cannot increase one lot of salaries without getting the money; and also without regard to what effect these increases may have in other quarters, and what claims they may be opening the door to—I suggest as an amendment that the following words be added to the motion ‘provided always that the finances of the Free State permit of such increases.”

I beg to second the amendment.

If it had not been for the last speech I would not have said anything. I thought we should have been perfectly unanimous on this question at least. We know that salaries have risen all over the country, and people have been given high salaries and bonuses of all sorts. The only people left out have been the Secondary Teachers. It is not a question of to-day or yesterday, but of many years that I have been hearing of these complaints. I think the method under which all these schools are managed is to a great extent responsible for this. There is an extreme competition to pass examinations which, I think, is extremely detrimental to education and to finance and everything else. I am sorry to see that anybody should propose an amendment that merely means passing by these people who have been shown to be so deserving. Of course, we all know that if we have not money some classes of people will not be able to get as much as they ought to, but we are not an executive body, and we are merely passing a resolution expressing our sympathy with those people whom we know to be badly paid. The proposer of the amendment even recognises that they are under-paid, and we ought not to go beyond saying that we sympathise entirely with them, and urge the Executive who have the power of the purse to proceed in the matter as fast as ever they can.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

Before I put the amendment I may mention that the Minister for Education is present, and if he desires to add anything to the discussion I am sure the Seanad will be delighted to hear him.

It is my duty to be present in order to hear the views of the members of the Seanad on the question, which has occupied public attention and is occupying the attention of the Government. Those who are in close touch with it know that the case undoubtedly, as shown in the figures placed before us, requires a remedy, but the remedy is not by any means a simple one. The history of the growth of this present state of things in secondary education is, I am sure, familiar to everyone present, as it has come about in the time of most of us. Until, I think, the Intermediate Act of 1877, there was no public provision at all for secondary education in Ireland. It relied entirely on private endowment and private contributions, and out of that it has arisen that all, or practically all, the secondary schools in Ireland are private institutions, and again, from that it has followed that the relation between those who have charge of these schools and the lay Secondary Teachers who teach in them, has been a purely contractual relation of the most open kind. It is only within recent years that any attempt has been made, under great public pressure, to come, in any degree, to the relief of these Secondary Teachers, and the shortness of financial support has fallen not only on them, but on the schools generally in which they are engaged. I think it is quite true to say that the very existence of Secondary Schools for some time, owing to the change of value consequent on the European War, was made almost impossible. As it has been pointed out to you, the remedy in this matter is mainly a question of finance. The mover of the resolution expressed some pain of mind on behalf of those responsible for the state of things as it is at present. Well, I think that I might safely say, and the present Government might safely say, that that leaves their withers unwrung, because they certainly are not responsible for the state of things in the Secondary Schools as it exists at present. The endowment of Secondary Education in Ireland has never been adequate, and I am glad that that resolution has been brought forward, for it will help to focus the public mind on the necessity of making full and adequate provision for secondary education.

I do not know that it is necessary for me to add anything more. I have said that the matter of making this provision is under the consideration of the Government. In the last resort public financial provision depends on public opinion, and upon the public understanding of the importance of the object for which the provision is to be made. I do not think, addressing myself to the amendment, that there ought to be any great apprehension on the point of making such provision. There will be calls on the public to make provision for many things in the immediate future, some of them exceptional things arising out of the defects of education, and some of them normal and carrying normal increases, but with regard to making ample provision, which has never yet been made for secondary education in our time, I think it would be quite sound for the people and their representatives to look to the provisions so made purely in the light of an investment, and one of the soundest investments which it is possible for them to make of their resources.

Before the amendment is put I must say that I feel sorry that Sir John Keane should feel it necessary to move an amendment of that character. It is quite obvious that no money can be paid unless the money exists. That is quite an intelligent interpretation of the motion. The Minister has assured him that he need have no undue apprehension on that head. We have passed motions here where finance was concerned, and where we were personally concerned ourselves, and we omitted, and Senator Sir John Keane omitted, to insert any such proviso. Later on there will be other matters coming before the Seanad regarding compensation for destruction. I am wondering whether the financial conditions of the country will get the same consideration as this proposal to give tolerable conditions of service to five or six hundred people has received. I would, therefore, oppose the amendment. I hope that the Seanad will not boggle and hair-split in the manner suggested by tacking on this meaningless and unnecessary amendment to the resolution. In conclusion, I would appeal to the Minister to make some temporary provision to assist the men and women who are in such a very deplorable economic condition at the present time, pending the establishment of a permanent character.

As the resolution has achieved its purpose, and has arrested the attention of the Minister for Education, I think that Senator O'Farrell, in order to prevent any difference of opinion about a very deserving body of men with whom every Senator is in thorough sympathy, and in order that there should be no division in the matter should withdraw the motion, and that Senator Sir John Keane should withdraw his amendment.

Might I say that the Minister for Education has welcomed the motion that has been proposed by Senator O'Farrell. I think, if I interpret correctly the Minister for Education he has welcomed this motion, because he said it called attention to a matter that required the attention of the public. The Minister, I am very glad to say, was most sympathetic in his remarks. Under the circumstances I do not see why the motion should be withdrawn. Rather, I believe it will strengthen the hands of the Minister, and that is what he requires.

In view of the representations made to me, and after what the Minister said, I feel that there is a general wish that the amendment should be withdrawn, and I do so.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Motion put and agreed to.
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