I suggest to the Seanad that it would suit the convenience of everybody if it adopts the suggestion I made to take up the Second Reading of the Public Order Enforcement Bill. In order to enable that be done Standing Orders will have to be suspended, because there is a Standing Order in existence which prevents any Bill being taken in this way until an interval of three clear days elapses from the time the Bill is circulated. That interval has not elapsed in connection with this Bill. The Second Reading can now be taken if a motion is carried to suspend Standing Orders.
DYESTUFFS (IMPORT REGULATIONS) REPEAL BILL, 1923. - SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I move the suspension of Standing Orders.
I am sorry to have to oppose what is wanted by the Government and suggested by An Cathaoirleach, but I protest in the name of a great many Senators, as well as in my own, as we are of opinion that the methods in which Bills have been introduced are most unsatisfactory. It was the knowledge of that that induced the Seanad to pass a Standing Order preventing that being done in future. What has happened now? Two of the most contentious Bills that could be introduced before any assembly have been launched on us at the same time. One is a Bill to endanger the liberties of the people of Ireland, and the other to confiscate all the land of Ireland. Not only that, but when the message was first sent out to Senators we were told that the Public Safety Bill would be the first to be taken. That, I think, upset some people, including myself, because these are two Bills which I, at all events, am not capable of understanding and discussing at this moment. Some people may be capable of doing so, but I am not.
Some people are of opinion that these Bills are too complex for the ordinary person to discuss straight away and see how they act and react on the people and on the land of Ireland. Last night I was very much distressed about it. I came to the Seanad this morning, and the first thing I was told was that that arrangement was upset, and that the Peace Preservation or Coercion Bill was going to be put on first. A certain number of people who are not lawyers, and who have not had time to study the Bills, are not able to discuss these elaborate measures which are now thrown them. The whole of this business is merely in order that the Government may have good propaganda and rush the elections for their own party purposes Why should this be done? They kept their own minds dark and would not tell us when the elections would be, but they organised themselves and suddenly rushed these at us.
As one who always takes the same line as Senator Moore, I should like to point out that if we do not suspend Standing Orders we shall have even less time than we now have to deal with these Bills. I want to give my attention to either Bill, and we want to make this one as good as we can. I support the suspension of Standing Orders.
I oppose the suspension of Standing Orders on the same ground as Senator Moore, because I believe necessity compels us to take up Bills rather hurriedly. I would like the order in which we were handed our Bills to be adhered to. The Land Bill could be taken up first, and the Safety Bill second. I do not think we are being treated fairly. Some of us are competent, perhaps, to deal with the Land Bill, and others with the other Bill. I have some views on the Land Bill which may or may not evaporate to-morrow afternoon. I oppose the motion.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I should like to remove any impression that I had any desire to treat the Seanad unfairly. My object is to treat Senators in the way I believe to be according to their best interests and also to facilitate the despatch of business. I never understood—this is the first time I was told it—that we are bound by the order on the Agenda Paper. These come in on us at irregular intervals, and I never know until the last moment what will be the order of the next day, and I have to adjust the order according to the desire of the Seanad. I thought it was the privilege of the Seanad to take the business in any order it chose. I am satisfied that Senators will find it to their own interests to take the Bills in the order suggested. If leave is not given to suspend Standing Orders for this Bill, we can pass to the other one.
I should like to make one or two remarks on the general question, if I am in order.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I do not think the Senator is in order. You are in order in saying anything relevant to the motion before the Seanad, that we suspend the Standing Orders. You will be in order on the adjournment to enter fully into this matter.
The necessity for the suspension of Standing Orders arises on the general need for despatch. I wish to comment on the general need for despatch. I feel, as you said, that this Seanad has been rather rushed in this matter, and its utility thereby has been materially impaired. We have been subject to considerable criticism, perhaps in unin-impaired. We have been subject to considerable criticism, perhaps in uninformed quarters, criticism which has been read in the Press and circulated, criticism that we we do not give due attention to those matters coming before us, and that our work is generally of a hasty character. I feel that criticism very strongly as a member of this Seanad, and when those important Bills are being considered we should do all in our power to prevent that charge being made against us. When it comes to making a choice about rushing legislation through this Seanad in order that the elections may take place early, before we agree to this we ought to know that those elections are going to be rushed forward for good and sufficient reasons. According to the Constitution they need not take place before the 6th of December, and unless the Government can give very good reasons for bringing the date forward, and so hastening our procedure and hurrying our deliberations on those important measures, I think we ought to take such action as, within the Constitution, we are empowered to do.
I desire to oppose the suspension of Standing Orders in this case. I think the Seanad has been too often asked in the past to suspend Standing Orders, and to rush through Bills, and that the time has now arrived when we should have sufficient time to consider them before we pass them finally through this Seanad. I cannot see what is the necessity of making Standing Orders for the regulation of the business of this Seanad if we are to be called on at every meeting to do away with those Orders. I think the amendment to a Standing Order, made at the last meeting, whereby three days were to be given to members to consider Bills before the Second Reading, was a wise one, and I do not see that the postponement of the elections for three days ought to make any material difference to the country. I am quite willing from day to day to do the work of this Seanad so that most of the Bills would be got through in the shortest possible time, but I do object to those important Bills, especially the Land Bill, being rushed through in this manner.
If the motion to suspend the Standing Orders is not carried, what the Senator fears will take place. The Land Bill will be rushed through this evening. So I suggest to the Seanad they should adopt your suggestion. Senator Sir J. Keane referred to the criticism of the Seanad. I do not think much attention should be given to those who criticised us for not being garrulous enough. I think it is important to have an election as early as possible, in the daylight, and not in the dark, long nights, when the gun bully can come out and intimidate the people. I think that the Seanad should adopt your suggestion and suspend the Standing Orders.
Motion put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 27; Níl, 13.
Tá
- James G. Douglas.
- John Bagwell.
- William Barrington.
- Richard A. Butler.
- John C. Counihan.
- Peter de Loughry.
- Dowager Countess of Desart.
- Sir Thomas Henry Grattan Esmond, Bart.
- Sir Nugent Talbot Everard, Bart.
- Martin Fitzgerald.
- James P. Goodbody.
- Mrs. Alice S. Green.
- Henry Seymour Guinness.
- Benjamin Haughton.
- Cornelius J. Irwin.
- Arthur Jackson.
- Patrick Williams Kenny.
- Earl of Kerry
- Edward MacEvoy.
- James McKean.
- John MacLoughlin.
- Edward MacLysaght.
- Earl of Mayo, K.P.
- William John Molloy.
- James Moran.
- Bernard O'Rourke.
- Colonel Sir W. Hutcheson Poe.
Níl
- Thomas Westropp Bennett.
- Mrs. E. Costello.
- William Cummins.
- Michael Duffy.
- Thomas Farren.
- Sir John Keane, Bart.
- Thomas Linehan.
- Joseph Clayton Love.
- Thomas MacPartlin.
- Colonel Maurice Moore.
- Mrs. Jane Wyse Power.
- Earl of Wicklow, D.L.
- William Butler Yeats.
Motion declared carried.