Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Monday, 30 Jul 1923

Vol. 1 No. 35

LEAGUE OF NATIONS (GUARANTEE) BILL, 1923. - INSURANCE PREMIUMS.

I beg to move the resolution which appears in my name:—

"That having regard to the large sums of money paid by Irish citizens as premiums for the insurance of their property from loss by fire, riot, or civil commotion, the liability to pay for which is, in consideration of these premiums, assumed by insurance companies and underwriters, but which liability it is now endeavoured to place on the rates,

"It is in the opinion of the Seanad desirable, and they would urge the Government to introduce legislation, under which insurance companies or underwriters who (a) repudiate the liabilities they have assumed, or (b) are unwilling to abide by the decisions of the Free State Courts, shall be precluded from carrying on business in Saorstát Eireann."

I have ventured to put down the resolution because it has become obvious lately that a great many insurance companies, underwriters, and persons of that sort have been availing themselves of the state of affairs which has unfortunately prevailed in this country to enable them to evade the obligations which they have undoubtedly undertaken, and for which they have been receiving very large sums in premiums. What this in the gross would amount to it would be impossible to say, but when you take into consideration the fact that practically all buildings in Ireland are insured, and furniture and things of that sort, one must appreciate that it would be a very large amount. Most of the policies include clauses protecting the insured against loss arising from arson, or incendiarism, but when these losses have arisen lately, insurance companies have availed themselves of the state of affairs to repudiate their own liabilities, and to refer the people to the legislation which exists here for recovering damages for malicious injuries.

That is undoubtedly the case, and in addition to that there are a great many policies which have been taken out at very largely increased premiums, which have covered property against losses arising from riot or civil commotion, and we have had a number of cases in which these losses have also been endeavoured to be repudiated by these large insurance companies. The policy holders are, therefore, thrown back on the only remedy which they possess, which is to seek to make the ratepayers liable for the losses which they have incurred, or to avoid a most expensive law suit, with a certainty that if the decision goes against these wealthy insurance companies the case will be taken to the House of Lords, and the unfortunate policy holder will be faced with practically prohibitive expense in litigation. It is no wonder that these insurance companies under these conditions have been able to put up the palatial edifices that you see in London and scattered all over the large cities in Great Britain, because they have been receiving a most substantial income from Ireland, and, of course, other places as well.

Perhaps the Irish income is not as large as the others, but the repudiation mainly has taken place here. None of us is so young that he cannot recollect the time when honest John Bull was referred to with respect, and often with affection; but a new generation has arisen, and with new men and new methods the place of honest John Bull has been taken by these huge associations, and whenever they have any case to fight, the unfortunate policy holder is put up against an enormous aggregation of capital, which he knows will be ruthlessly used against him. I think it was O'Connell who said that these large associations had neither a body to be kicked nor a soul to be saved. They do not mind what excuses they put forward to evade conditions. Even the London Times, lately, has found it necessary to call attention to the abuses which have been taking place even in England, and they have pointed out that in most of the proposals and in some of the policies there are conditions attached which are something like the small print on the back of a pound note, which nobody ever reads, and which have vital effects on the interests of the policy holders. They pointed out that the policy holder in every case is hardly able to protect himself, and that some protection is necessary for him. I think the time comes to all of us, and probably to most countries when one has to consider whether you will submit to an imposition like a slave, or whether you will fight it. I think that time has come in this country, and I think the people we represent here expect us to do what we can, and, perhaps, what we can do for their protection may be very limited. I do not think we would be at all out of place in asking our Government to take advice as to what steps they could take to protect the policy holders. I think it is only reasonable to ask them to do so, and, therefore, I have much pleasure in proposing the resolution which appears in my name.

I would like to second the resolution, not altogether in its entirety, but I certainly would in so far as it relates to the second paragraph (b).

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

Unless you are seconding the resolution as it stands, I must wait for someone who is prepared to second it as it stands. You are in the position of moving an amendment.

I have great pleasure in seconding the resolution as it stands.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

If Senator Barrington would kindly allow me, I would like to point out to him, with regard to the latter portion—"are unwilling to abide by the decisions of the Free State Courts"—that the insurance companies in many cases have taken litigation to the House of Lords. I want to point out, owing to the recent pronouncement of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, that will be no longer possible. An isolated action of that kind can no longer go to the House of Lords. It is almost certain that if a petition is made for leave to appeal the leave to appeal will be refused. Therefore, in the future, for all practical purposes these matters will be decided finally and for all time by the decision of the ultimate Court of the Free State.

I do not for a moment quarrel with your opinion as a lawyer, but was not it held the other day that the citizens of the Free State as between themselves had a perfect right to go to the House of Lords?

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

No. It is absolutely abolished.

I understood that any of the citizens of the Free State as between themselves had the right to appeal.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

No, it cannot be done, and there is no machinery of human ingenuity by which you can do it. That is the position for the present and the future. The appeal to the House of Lords is absolutely and entirely abolished in reference to any decision in any Court in the Irish Free State. There is no longer the power with either litigant to take the appeal to the House of Lords. If he wants to go further, when the case has been decided by the Court of Appeal in the Irish Free State, he has to apply to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council for the right to appeal. The Judicial Committee laid it down the other day that they will not give any such right except there is some question of national importance involved or except the case raises grave constitutional issues. For all intents and purposes, the decision of the Supreme Court of the Irish Free State will be final in the future.

I accept your Lordship's ruling.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

It is not my ruling. It is only a plain exposition of the facts.

I fully accept it, but it would only affect my resolution to the extent that portion of it would be redundant.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

I might also suggest that wherever the insurance policy covers riot or civil commotion the company have got to pay. They have no choice. The difficulties that have arisen are owing to the fact that with the majority of insurance policies in Ireland the reverse is the case. There is a clause exempting the company from liability in cases of riot or civil commotion. That is the difficulty. Wherever a policy contains a covenant which makes the company liable in the event of riot or civil commotion—which they often do for an increased premium—I know of no case where liability was disputed.

My experience has not been the same.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

The man who suffers of course knows most about it.

I know a number of cases in which large sums of money were involved. In one case the insurance effected was for £23,000. After nine months and after a good deal of trouble the insurance company—Lloyd's—paid £16,000 conditionally on the people going into Court and getting compensation from the county. The £16,000 was only advanced as a loan until the party went into the Courts and got compensation for the malicious destruction of their property. I know several cases in which that occurred.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

That has always been the law in these malicious injury cases, and for an obvious reason. It has been held that the mere fact that the person injured is insured does not deprive him of his remedy or right against the rates. Therefore, if an insured person instead of claiming against the rates claims against the insurance company, it has been held up to now under the old law that he was trustee for the money he got from the rates for the insurance company. In other words, he could not have it both ways.

In this case the rate charged was £3 per £100 for three months for riot and civil commotion. The ordinary rate for fire would be 3s. per £100 per annum. The insurance companies collected very, very big premiums in that way, and incurred no liability, because they could make the parties collect the compensation from the county. They collected £3 per £100 for three months and gave nothing for it.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

That was always the law.

Policies for riot and civil commotion were only taken out quite recently.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

I am quite aware of that, but the principle always applied. If, where the premium is small and does not cover riot and civil commotion, the party insured or the insurance company, is entitled to recover from the rates, the same principle would necessarily apply even though the insurance premium was increased and extra risk was covered. The principle still remains the same. I am merely pointing this out as I do not want the Senator to be under any misapprehension about it. It does not interfere with the purpose or intention of his resolution. I will ask some Senator to move the adjournment now for luncheon, and at the close of the proceedings to-day, if time permits, we will continue this discussion on Senator Barrington's motion.

I move the adjournment of the Seanad until 2.30 to-day.

I second that.

The Seanad adjourned at 1.35 p.m. until 2.30 p.m.

The Seanad resumed at 2.30.

Top
Share