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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 2 Aug 1923

Vol. 1 No. 38

SEANAD IN COMMITTEE. - DÁIL EIREANN COURTS (WINDING UP) BILL, 1923. SECOND AND SUBSEQUENT STAGES.

Mr. O'HIGGINS

It might be well if I said a few words in explanation and exposition of this Bill. Senators are generally aware of the situation with which it is intended to deal. We had for some years here in this country a dual system of Courts and a conflict for jurisdiction. It has been spoken of as concurrent jurisdiction; it would be nearly as true to speak of it as concurrent lack of jurisdiction. At any rate there were two kinds—the Courts set up by Dáil Eireann and the existing State Courts of the British administration. People brought their business to one or other of those two Courts, and unfortunately after the Truce people brought their business to both, going into one Court for an injunction against the other party from proceeding in the other Court. I think most thoughtful people in the country realise that if the country were to continue plunging about in that condition of concurrent lack of jurisdiction it would spell an end to commerce and stability.

We had the alternative. There were really two ways of dealing with the situation, to adopt and adapt the Dáil Courts as they stood or to take the view that the State Courts having passed into our hands should receive the sanction and assent of the Parliament of the people since they were no longer obnoxious in the sense in which they were obnoxious in the past. We withdrew the jurisdiction from the Dáil Courts and that step was criticised. But Senators will appreciate the fact that they were at best an improvised system, used in the conflict against the British. Of course they did real work, both in keeping certain peace and order in the country and enabling people to settle minor disputes inevitable in rural communities, and also in their propaganda value for the disturbances in the country at the time. But the movement was split from top to bottom. The personnel of the Courts had gone in different directions and people who witnessed the concluding stages of those Courts, who had any real knowledge of the abuses which prevailed generally did not regret the steps taken by the Government to end them.

We should have long since introduced a Bill of this kind. The chief criticism of this Bill is that it is belated. It is because we had to observe a sense of proportion and there were more pressing matters. I am aware that cases of hardship did occur in the delay in tabling this Bill. It provides for the payment of Judicial Commissioners to deal with cases pending in the Courts at the time of their abolition and to deal with any appeals there may be from decrees given in the Dáil Courts. Section 2 deals with the appointment of the Commissioners. The class of business with which those Commissioners will deal is set out in Sections 4 and 5. There is a provision for the appointment of Assistant Commissioners to help in the winding up of these Courts. Sums were due under this system of Courts that it was not possible to pay because there were no legal provisions.

Mr. O'HIGGINS

I am speaking of expenses in connection with those Courts. The decrees will have to be registered and every registration will have to be examined by the Commissioners set up under this Bill. When they are so registered they will be as binding on an Under-Sheriff as a decree given in the State Courts. I do not know whether Senators had time to read the Bill very carefully.

The only other criticism that had been made is one which Deputy Fitzgibbon made in connection with Section 26.

The exact necessity for Section 26 is this. There were people who during that period when summoned in one Court did not appear and let judgment go sooner than waive their political principles by entering that Court. That applied to Dáil and State Courts all the time. This Bill makes provision that for three months after the passing of this Bill, if a person can convince the Commissioners that he has a good case, then during that three months cases of this kind can be brought forward.

I am not sure there is any other matter that calls for particular comment. Senators can take it that the matter has been very thoroughly investigated. The Commission on which Mr. Meredith, K.C., acted and others who knew where the shoe was pinching in the situation arising out of those Courts were at work for some months and this Bill is framed on an unanimous report from that Committee.

In connection with sub-section (2) clause (1) what is the explanation for the difference in date for the withdrawal of authority from Parish and District Dáil Courts? For districts outside Dublin the authority is withdrawn from October, 1922, while in other Courts it is from the 25th July, 1922.

Mr. O'HIGGINS

Those were the dates on which the orders were passed. That is not the matter we are deciding now. The jurisdiction of the Courts was withdrawn from those dates by a special order of the Provisional Government.

Motion: "That the Bill be read a second time," put and agreed to.

I move to suspend Standing Orders to take the Committee Stage of this Bill.

I beg to second.

Agreed.

Motion: "That the Bill be considered in Committee," put and agreed to.
Motion: "That the Bill be considered on report," put and agreed to.
Motion: "That the Bill be now passed," put and agreed to.
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