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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 Nov 1925

Vol. 5 No. 17

AMENDMENT OF STANDING ORDERS.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

There is a matter to which I would like to direct the attention of the Seanad, and it is in connection with our recent triennial election. When the counting of the votes had been nearing its conclusion it was obvious to me, from certain observations that were attributed to the Returning Officer, that he was under the impression that his duty compelled him to hold up the declaration of the result until the 6th December next, his belief being that under the statute and regulations it would be his duty, in the event of any vacancy unfortunately occurring by death in the nineteen Senators elected, to return in place of the Senator so dying the candidate who was next in order on the voting. I was not quite satisfied at the time that he was accurate in this, and after a very careful consideration of the statutes I came to the conclusion that he was wrong and that, once the counting of the votes had reached, in fact, its conclusion, he should there and then certify the result and publish the same in the Gazette, and that any vacancy that occurred after that date, and before the 6th December, should be filled by the Seanad under the Constitution as a casual vacancy and should not be left to be filled by the Returning Officer from the list of candidates.

The matter, of course, was material, because had I allowed the thing to pass and a vacancy had occurred in the interval before the 6th December there would have been an inevitable controversy raised as to who was right with regard to the selection to fill the vacancy, and therefore I thought it my duty to bring my views to the attention of the Returning Officer. I may say that what I am saying now in no way detracts, and I should be the last who would wish to detract, from the credit that is due to that officer for the ability and courtesy he displayed throughout in the discharge of his novel and difficult duties. All of us are liable to make mistakes; some of us perhaps do not acknowledge them, but in his case he at once got advice upon the position and he came to the conclusion that I was right. Accordingly about a week ago he certified the result, so that the election was then in fact complete and the question of a possible controversy was, of course, at an end. I mention it now for the purpose of satisfying the Seanad that as far as I was able to do it I safeguarded their rights and their position, and I mention it also so as to prevent the possibility of any similar mistake occurring in any future triennial election, when perhaps we might not have the same Returning Officer.

The fact that this election was held in anticipation of the vacancies, that is to say, that it was held before the 6th December, before the outgoing Senators in fact retired and in anticipation of their retirement, has raised some complications with regard to certain of our Standing Orders, and it is for that reason that you will see on the Agenda to-day a notice of motion with a view to putting the matter right. In the first place I will call your attention to our second Standing Order, which is the one that deals with the election of your Chairman and Deputy-Chairman. It reads in this way:—"The Chairman and Deputy-Chairman shall be appointed at the first meeting of the Seanad to be held after each triennial election of the Members of the Seanad." That was, of course, drafted and passed at a time when we anticipated that these elections would always take place after the vacancies had occurred and not before, and consequently the "first meeting" would have been the meeting at which the newly-elected Senators would be entitled to attend and vote for that purpose. But in the events that have happened we would be compelled, if that was not altered, to proceed to the election now, before the newly-elected Senators had taken their seats and could exercise a voice in the matter. It is accordingly essential that that should be changed, and a motion for the purpose is on the Order Paper.

It also affected another important Standing Order, that is Standing Order 94, which provides that all Committees of the Seanad shall be deemed to be discharged at the date of a triennial election for the Seanad. The result of that is this, that since last week, when the Returning Officer certified the result of the election and thereby concluded it, all our Committees have been automatically dissolved and have no power to meet unless reappointed. In order to provide for that contingency in the future, on the assumption that future elections will be held in anticipation of the vacancies as on this occasion, you will find a motion on the Paper to deal with it and to provide that the Committees shall remain in office until the 6th December. But to keep the thing perfectly right it will be necessary in addition to re-appoint these Committees, because they are defunct and will require to be revived by your motion.

Does that apply to any member of the Seanad who happens to be on a Joint Committee or Commission, such as the Commission in connection with the Greater Dublin area, or is it merely Committees appointed by this House?

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

My opinion —of course I can only give it to the best of my skill and knowledge—is that that has no application to Joint Committees, because they cannot be dissolved except by the joint operation of both Houses. These Standing Orders must be read, I think, as only applicable to our Committees.

As you have explained so fully the necessity for the alterations, I need not say any more about them. I have only to explain what the Standing Order, as it at present stands, does and how it is proposed to alter it. The motion is:—

That the following alterations be made in the Standing Orders of the Seanad:—

(a) Standing Order 2. That the words "each triennial election of members of the Seanad" be deleted and the words "the commencement of each triennial period" substituted therefor.

(b) Standing Order 94. That the words "shall be deemed to be discharged at the date of a triennial election to the Seanad" be deleted and the words "of the Seanad shall be deemed to be discharged at the end of each triennial period" substituted therefor.

Standing Order No. 2 at present reads as follows:—

The Chairman and Deputy Chairman shall be appointed at the first meeting of the Seanad to be held after each triennial election of members of the Seanad, unless the Seanad shall by resolution otherwise determine.

The motion proposes that the words "each triennial election of members of the Seanad" should be deleted, and that the words "the commencement of each triennial period" should be substituted for them. As amended the Standing Order would read:—

The Chairman and Deputy-Chairman shall be appointed at the first meeting of the Seanad to be held after the commencement of each triennial period, unless the Seanad shall by resolution otherwise determine.

That means that the election of the Chairman and the Deputy Chairman shall take place at the first sitting of this House after the 6th December. The other Standing Order is No. 94, which deals with our Committees and their discharge after a triennial election. It reads:—

Notwithstanding the termination of a session, committees shall continue in being until they shall have reported or been discharged by order of the Seanad: provided that all committees shall be deemed to be discharged at the date of a triennial election to the Seanad.

What is now proposed is that the words "shall be deemed to be discharged at the date of a triennial election to the Seanad" be deleted, and that the words "of the Seanad shall be deemed to be discharged at the end of each triennial period" shall be substituted. Then the last clause of the Standing Order would read:—"Provided that all Committees of the Seanad shall be deemed to be discharged at the end of each triennial period." I beg to move.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

We had better take them separately I think.

Very well. Then I move the first.

I have pleasure in seconding the motion. Alterations in the Standing Orders are obviously necessary having regard to the conditions under which our first triennial election was held. I do not know whether our future elections will be held under the same conditions— that is to say, that the date of the election shall be moved forward and the elections held at an earlier date than the vacancies occur, but whether that is so or not——

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

I think the Act is permanent. Whether it is intended to apply it to each triennial election or not I cannot say. It is open to the Executive to do so in the form of the Act as it stands.

I had forgotten the terms of the Act, but inasmuch as it is apparent that it is to be permanent, it is obvious that we must change our Standing Orders to meet the situation. What Senator Brown moves carries out the idea embodied in these Standing Orders when they were first drawn up, and the remark I make on this motion equally applies to the other amendments.

Motion put and agreed to.

I move:—

Standing Order 94. That the words "shall be deemed to be discharged at the date of a triennial election to the Seanad" be deleted and the words "of the Seanad shall be deemed to be discharged at the end of each triennial period" substituted therefor.

I beg to second.

Motion put and agreed to.

I beg to move as consequential on what we have done:—

"That the Committee of Selection, the Committee on Procedure, and the Select Committee on the Coroners Bill, 1925, which are deemed to be discharged pursuant to Standing Order 94, be re-appointed."

This is merely to give life to the Committees, which are now defunct, for the next few weeks.

I beg to second.

Motion put and agreed to.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

I might mention for the information of the Senators who are on these Committees the names of the members. The Committee of Selection consists of the Vice-Chairman, and Senators Butler, Barrington, Farren, Guinness, Jameson, McLoughlin, MacLysaght, and O'Dea.

The Committee on Procedure consists of the Chairman, Deputy-Chairman and Senators Bennett, Brown, Farren, Jameson, Linehan, Nesbitt and Mrs. Wyse-Power. The Committee on the Coroners Bill consists of the Chairman and Senators Brown, De Loughry, Farren, Jackson, Kenny and the Countess of Desart.

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