Seanad Éireann debate -
Monday, 14 Dec 1925

Vol. 6 No. 3

GARDA SIOCHANA PENSIONS ORDER—MOTION OF APPROVAL.

Sir THOMAS ESMONDE

I beg to move:—

"That the Seanad hereby approves of the Gárda Síochána Pensions Order, 1925, made on the 19th day of October, 1925, by the Minister for Justice, with the sanction of the Minister for Finance, under Section 8 of the Gárda Síochána Act, 1924, and Section 13 of the Police Forces Amalgamation Act, 1925, and laid before the Seanad on the 9th day of December, 1925."

This is a purely formal matter. I think the members of the Seanad have probably read the Order already. It is a continuation of the Order made last year fixing the pensions payable to members of the Gárda Síochána. Senators will probably remember that the pensions were fixed to be payable after fifteen years' service subject to good behaviour and so forth and that the Order did not apply to members of the old D.M.P. who joined the Gárda because they had a pension scheme of their own. Then there were various other regulations. For instance, officers of this Force were entitled to get pensions when they reached 60 years of age provided they rendered good service. Then if any member of the Force joined another Police Force he forfeited his right to a pension as a member of this force. I think the Seanad might safely agree with this resolution.

Mr. DOUGLAS

Is this an Order which will not come into effect unless it is formally approved here? There are two classes of Orders—those which have to be approved here before they come into effect and those which simply lie on the Table of the House.

Sir THOMAS ESMONDE

This Order has to be approved.

Mr. DOUGLAS

I think in the case of Orders which have to be approved there should be notice given and it should be circulated. I do not think there is any necessity to circulate Orders which have not to be approved, but those which have to be formally approved should be circulated because it is simply a farce to be called upon to approve of an Order which we have not seen. I do not think that in this particular case the Seanad should refuse, as a protest, to pass it, but in future it should insist that Orders of this character should be circulated.

CATHAOIRLEACH

I rather understood from Senator Esmonde that this Order had been circulated.

Sir THOMAS ESMONDE

This is a continuation of the Order approved of by the House last year.

Mr. DOUGLAS

I do not think it was circulated last year either. It is the principle of the matter to which I am referring. The Senator is wrong in saying that it was circulated last year.

CATHAOIRLEACH

Senator Douglas is not seeking to block your motion in any way, but he suggests that in future, as it may involve matters of importance, it would be desirable that the document should be circulated along with the notice of motion before approval.

Sir THOMAS ESMONDE

I quite agree that we should get notice of these Orders which we have to approve of. This particular Order, however, was approved of twelve months ago, and I do not suppose that anybody desires that members of the Gárda Síochána should not be entitled to draw their pensions.

Motion put and agreed to.

The Seanad adjourned at 5.30 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Wednesday, 16th December.