For the first time I have learned this evening that the degree of Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of anything else has had a market value in the country. For 15 years I tried to discover where the market value was, and I must say the results, as far as I was concerned, were very disappointing. I cannot see that there has been any hardship imposed upon those who have obtained the diploma of Associate of the College of Science, simply because of the absorption of that College of Science in a university. If the diploma of Associateship were regarded as having a certain qualifying effect, and if that effect was no longer to be there, I would then admit that there was a hardship, but in so far as the old diploma of Associateship of the College of Science was recognised as qualifying for anything under, say, the Department of Education, they have already indicated their point of view that they will continue such recognition.
The point has been made that people who are associates of a living body where that body is absorbed in another, consider that they are affected in their old position and that their degree is depreciated to a certain extent in value. Again I make the distinction, if that disappeared from existence altogether. If the register was no longer kept in existence, then there might be some small point of hardship argued about it, but the arrangement is that it will be noted in the Calendar of University College, Dublin, and that the College of Science having become absorbed in University College, by rease of a particular Act of the Oireachtas, a list of the associates of the College of Science will then be combined in the Calendar and will be placed on record there for all time. There will even be a record giving some indication of the courses of study which had to be pursued so that hereafter a comparison can be made between the courses of study, and if there is any person sufficiently inquisitive he can go back and see the courses pursued by certain individuals who obtained a degree and he can make comparisons between them and other persons who were not graduates of the university.
With regard to those who wish to obtain higher degrees, I have already stated that there is a provision in the statutes of the University to enable associates who wish, on their Associate Diplomas, to enter for a higher course and obtain further diplomas or fellowships, to do so. That has definitely been catered for. A provision is already made in the statutes, and it is a very simple matter to carry that into effect—that associates should have their associateships so far recognised as that a higher degree for subsequent work may be given upon it. What that subsequent degree may be, is a matter that will be determined later. It will be ordinarily the degree of Master or the degree of Doctor. Having got his mastership he can later proceed to the degree of Doctor. It is possible — I do not know how far personally I would feel if I were an associate that it would be a limitation — it could be arranged that they would be given a Diploma of Fellowship of the College of Science, reserved exclusively for the associates of the College of Science. Even that can be provided for under the University statutes as they at present are. That is continuing what it seems to me this amendment seeks to wipe out. It is continuing the Diploma of Fellowship for those who were previously associates of the College of Science. I do not think that is specially desirable. At any rate a choice can be made. There is a provision for the associate who wishes to proceed to something higher within the University.
The amendment speaks of admitting to a National University degree of equivalent academic status. There is no equivalent academic status to the associateship. The associateship was never recognised as an Honours Degree. For certain purposes it was recognised as an equivalent of a Pass Degree. There were certain other equivalents which were considered as qualifications for a Pass Degree, but that does not mean that any two or four of those things were considered equal. They were simply considered as giving the minimum amount of knowledge requisite for a particular course. That was the beginning and end of it. Admitting them to an equivalent academic status is effected. The only equivalent academic status is the associateship itself, and that is being continued by the incorporation in the Calendar of this list of associates, keeping the list a real live list, and having the whole incorporated within the Calendar of the University. That is the only thing that I can say on this point. I must say I never heard yet a case which impressed me, that there was a hardship on an associate simply because the College of Science which gave him his associateship was being discontinued.
