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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 25 Apr 1928

Vol. 10 No. 12

PUBLIC BUSINESS. - WEIGHTS AND MEASURES BILL, 1928—SECOND STAGE.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be read a Second Time."

I want to raise a question with regard to Section 10 of this Bill, which, I think, is of some importance, and which was referred to at least on the Second Reading Stage in the other House. Sub-section (2) of Section 10 says:—

"In this part of this Act, other than this Section, the expression ‘measuring instrument' shall not include any instrument for the measurement and determination of electrical quantities."

At the present time the inspection of electrical meters is done by inspectors appointed by the Government. Under this new section that arrangement evidently is going to lapse, and it is rendered rather serious because of the fact that by Section 107 of the Electricity (Supply) Act of 1927 it is provided that

"The Minister may by order confer and impose on the Board and upon such order being made the Board shall exercise and perform the powers, functions and duties relating to meters or other electrical apparatus or appliances used or intended to be used for the measurement or determination of electrical quantities conferred and imposed on the Minister by the Weights and Measures Acts, 1878 to 1904, or by any other Act passed before or after the passing of this Act."

In other words, the Shannon Electricity Supply Board is the seller. It has the right to fix the price and to supply the quantity, but evidently it is also to be the body to test its own measuring instruments. I think that is a very serious state of affairs and one that could hardly be tolerated. It is to be presumed that the consumption of electricity will increase enormously during the next ten years, that it will be the principal illuminant, and be used for power and heating purposes, yet the body that is selling it is to be the body that will appoint inspectors to inspect their own measuring instruments. I would like to know if that is the position? If so, I think that sub-section (2) of Section 10 should be deleted, because otherwise there is no protection. Who is to protect the interests of the public and the interests of the consumers? Are we to believe that the Shannon Supply Board is infallible, is incapable of making a mistake or of doing an injustice? I would like to know from the Minister if we are to take it that the public are to entrust their rights to the people from whom they purchase the electricity?

All sub-section (2) of Section 10 does is to say that "In this part of this Act, other than this section, the expression ‘measuring instrument' shall not include any instrument for the measurement and determination of electrical quantities." It does not affect the Principal Act. This Bill makes no change with regard to the measurement and consumption of electrical energy. Whatever the regulations were they are left as they were under the old code. It is definitely intended, as matters stand, to leave with the Electricity Supply Board the appointment of inspectors. It is not right to say that they will be the only people who will be selling electricity, and it is hardly fair to come to the assumption, even if that was the case, that the Electricity Supply Board is likely to make regulations which would allow defective meters to be in use, which would be definitely permitting a fraud on the public. There will be meters sold by people other than the Board, and it might appear hereafter, when the situation develops, that the House would put in, say, some extra supervision over the inspectors appointed by the Board to see that the public are protected. The situation is not that this Bill actually affects the apparatus for measuring electricity units as sold, but that that is left as it was. It is simply an express provision that this Bill will not have anything to do with the present position. The present position was stated pretty accurately by Senator O'Farrell — the old code and the effect of that old code on the legislation of last year. It is intended, as matters stand at the moment, to leave all matters relating to electricity in the country in the hands of the Electricity Supply Board. That was pretty definitely stated when the Bill went through.

This is a private Board.

No, it is not a private Board.

It is free from all effective control by the Oireachtas in so far as the private interests of consumers are concerned.

I cannot at this stage go into the question as to how far it is under control, but if Senators remember the discussions on that legislation last year, they will realise that a pretty clear-cut statement was made that the Board should be free from day-to-day inquisitions, by means of questions as to what they did, but that the Board would have the full light of publicity thrown on its operations within yearly periods, and that that was to be got by certain information which they are required to give the public. There will always be someone who can be made responsible for the annual report when it is being considered. There will be no responsibility in the sense that no Minister will have to answer for its actions, but there will be a channel by which there can be a complaint conveyed to the Board of the opinions of this or the other House in regard to anything within the Board's control.

CATHAOIRLEACH

I think perhaps it would be well to defer further discussion to the Committee Stage. I think the matter is one well worthy of being looked into. Until you come to Section 10 the whole of this Bill deals with bottles, and bottles only. It is simply a question about the verification of bottles. In Section 10 there is general legislation dealing with the measurement of instruments applicable to any trade. It might be that there is something material in the point raised. I think the Senator would need to look at it in that light, because clearly up to that section the Bill is one applicable to the one particular industry. The whole of Part II. appears to have a general application to all trades. There will be an opportunity of raising the matter on the Committee Stage.

Question put and agreed to.
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