I move:—
"That the question of the revision of the remuneration of the Cathaoirleach and Leas-Chathaoirleach be referred to a Committee consisting of seven Senators, and that the following be appointed to serve on such Committee: Senators Connolly, Dowdall, MacLoughlin, Moran, O'Farrell, Sears and Jameson."
There were a few remarks made yesterday by Senator Farren that I might deal with first. He imputed motives to me in bringing forward this resolution. Senator Farren and I have sat together so long in this House and have so often taken different sides that I had hoped he would leave me to say why I do this, and not impute motives to me. I do not like the imputation of motives. He must know that what he said came from his imagination, and I can only answer by denying the imputations and trusting that the House will take my word that these were not the motives which actuated me in moving the motion. One of the things which he imputed to me was connected with a Bill which I believe has been introduced into the other House for the reduction of the salaries of Senators. He seemed to imply that this was part of a combined move to reduce the salaries of the Seanad from top to bottom. I never heard a word about that Bill until I was in England the other day and somebody told me that Senators were going to have their salaries reduced. I knew nothing about it until then. It is only fair to say that I think such a proceeding in the other House must be injudicious, to say the least of it. That one House should proceed to deal with salaries of the other is likely to cause a great deal of ill-feeling and trouble. If such a thing is to be done that is not the right way to do it. The only way such a thing could be done would be if Senators themselves, and especially those to whom the salary is of importance, moved in the matter, and if they themselves, from patriotic motives, make up their minds that our salaries ought to be cut down; and it is from them, and from them alone, that such a motion should come. Those of us not in any shape or form dependent upon the salaries should not move in the matter.
When the Seanad was about being established I held the view that it would be a great thing if we could get a body of Senators together without any salary. I think everyone here present would say that if we could get such a body together it would have a reputation for independence and might be relied upon. But it was pointed out to me that we could not possibly get such a body; it was pointed out that there were a great many people who ought to be Senators, and who would prove very valuable as Senators, but whom we could not ask to serve unless they got decent salaries. Then I thought that some others who could afford it ought to act without salaries. It then became quite evident that to have paid and unpaid Senators would never do, and that it was not the right thing for people who could afford to do without the salary to apparently make a patriotic offering by not taking their salaries. That would not be right. Therefore, I fell in with the idea that we should all be paid the same salary and that we should all be put on the same level. I say that if the salaries of the ordinary Senators are to be interfered with the motion to do so should come from this House and from a certain number of Senators. I should deprecate greatly that such a step should be taken by the other House, and if such a step is taken it will make it very difficult for the Seanad to deal with the matter when it comes up here. We have had difficult situations to deal with frequently in our relations with the other House. It required a good deal of tact at times to keep us working along together, but this action by the other House would cause a great deal of trouble, and I hope that members of the Dáil will see that and will avoid the occasion of any such friction. The question might be solved if we were to appoint a Joint Committee or something of that sort, but the place where the motion should be initiated is in the Seanad.
As regards the salaries mentioned in this resolution, Senators who have been here for the past six years will remember that these salaries were fixed at a time when the Seanad was rather standing upon its dignity. We thought that our leading officers should at least be paid on the same scale as the Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the Dáil. I am avoiding attempting to use the Irish description of these officers, because I would only offend the ears of Irish speakers if I used badly pronounced Irish words.
We thought that we were upholding the dignity of the Seanad in that way. It would not do that it should appear that our officers were not in as good a position as the others. That situation has now disappeared; the Seanad does not depend for its reputation or for the way in which it is looked at on the salary of anybody.
