The Senator, in moving his motion, gave a number of figures. I have been able to check those figures to some extent, but they left me with doubt as to their fullness, and I am unable, from the statistics that are available, to come to the conclusion that the Senator has come to regarding the importance of the figures he has given. They are important, and they are important as affecting the milling trade in Limerick, but they ought to be supplemented by further information. I feel that the information that is available will hardly bear the full weight of the argument that the Senator has placed upon it. I think it is widely known that there is a good deal of variation in the quantities of wheat and flour that are imported from year to year. An examination of the figures since 1924 of imports into the Free State will show that there have been variations, ups and downs, and that the 1930 figures—the figures for the nine months—while they undoubtedly show a serious change for the worse as compared with other years, do not bear quite the same construction.
If you are looking on this matter with a certain amount of detachment and judicial consideration we have to take not one year but a series of years. For instance, for the nine months of 1930 the imports of flour show an increase over 1929 of 7½ per cent. but they are only a very small proportion over 1928, and for seven years, 1924 inclusive, the figures vary somewhat, but they vary up and down, and one cannot judge the whole case on the figure for one year as compared with the previous year. It is interesting, too, to take into account the ratio of flour to wheat imports. There again we find that there are some variations, but for 1930 while the ratio of flour imports as compared with wheat, shows a considerable increase over 1929 it is not really alarming if we take the whole country. There has been a fairly steady ratio of 40 to 60, 36 to 64 and so on from 1924 right to 1930 for the nine months period, so that we would require, if we were considering this from the point of view of the Free State as a whole, to have more information than appears at present available, and I would like the Minister to instruct that very complete figures, if possible, should be published regarding imports of flour and wheat respectively, into all the ports of entry in the Free State. We would then be able to get an idea of the tendency in the respective ports of flour and wheat imports.
But I think Senator Connolly was well justified in directing special attention to the case of Limerick because, as I have said, there was an increase in the imports of flour of 7½ per cent. for the nine months over the previous year, taking all the ports of the Free State into account. There was an increase in Limerick over 41 weeks of 48 per cent. So that we have, taking all ports together, an increase of flour imports of 7½ per cent. while for Limerick port there is an increase of flour imports of 48 per cent. That seems to coincide with the new management and ownership of the Limerick mills and, undoubtedly, it would require to receive some consideration. Here, of course, we have to take into account Limerick particularly, perhaps because it is a big milling centre and not only concerned with Limerick. Limerick is in the peculiar position that its mills have undergone a change of ownership, and presumably they are changed in direction and in policy.
Senator Connolly drew attention to a feature of the recent policy, which was a change in the grade of flour which is milled in the Limerick mill. It appears, and I think the statement made by the Senator can be borne out by evidence that is available in Limerick, that the mill which has been making what is known as baker's flour is no longer used for that purpose, and that the whole of the flour being milled in the Limerick mills of Messrs. Ranks, are at present and henceforth to be known as household flour. But, as he pointed out, the old brands of Limerick milled flour for household purposes are being abandoned and a new brand for Irish-milled flours is being used. That brand is identical with the name used in Liverpool and Birkenhead milled flour. That brand apparently is being imported into this country from Birkenhead, and considerable quantities have gone into competition with the Limerick milled flour. Henceforward the "Millocrat" brand may be milled in Birkenhead or it may be milled in Limerick. It does not matter where it is milled. It is going to be sold under the one name, "Millocrat." This may be justifiable. I take it we have no particular reason to consider a particular name of flour or any other article which may be sold by merchants in this country, but a feature of this change that has to be taken into account is that the new ownership is part of a great international organisation and the Minister has, in another connection, drawn special attention to the changes that have taken place in Europe and throughout the world in regard to economic organisation, the organisations in particular industries in one country aligning themselves with industries in other countries. A complete change in the commercial outlook of these industries is being undergone. That is true in regard to flour milling, at least so far as this country and Great Britain are concerned. We know that Messrs. Ranks who now own the Limerick mills of Messrs Bannatyne, are part of a big milling organisation in Great Britain, and this system of rationalising the milling industry is for the benefit, protection and assistance of the industry as established in Great Britain. What seems to me to be significant and important is that the change in Limerick is part of the rationalising process, but it is the rationalising process of a British organisation and the Limerick mills and that firm appear to be fitting into the rationalising scheme of that British organisation. If that process continues it may have very considerable reactions and detrimental reactions upon the milling industry of this country. I think there ought to be rationalisation, better organisation, adjustment of means to end and a clear understanding of what the ends are for the milling industry in this country. I think if we are going to look on and remain quiet and unmoved by the rationalising scheme which conceives of the Irish milling industry as part of the unit of the British milling industry, then we are running very grave risks indeed of losing the milling industry as a whole. I would take it to be assumed that it is desirable that there should be retained within the country the plant and capacity for milling flour. Much would depend upon the intensity of our desire that that should be retained. If we take it as something of no supreme importance, then, of course, we are not going to trouble ourselves very much as to what happens, but if we take it as of great importance that there should be maintained within the country an efficient, active milling industry then I think it is necessary that there should be a watch and guard over the developments and the tendencies of those developments.
As I said at the beginning, I am not quite sure that the tendencies are yet showing themselves sufficiently to justify us in coming to the conclusion that the new policy has already the end of destroying the Irish milling industry. I do not think that is yet obvious but I think the tendency, as shown by Senator Connolly to fit in the Limerick mills of Messrs. Ranks into the British organisation, is a very dangerous tendency and one which ought to be guarded against. I think that proposals which were propounded some months ago on behalf of and by the Irish milling industry ought to have sympathetic and favourable consideration, and that the plan adumbrated at that time, to organise the Irish mills into a single organisation, giving that organisation a practical monopoly of the main qualities of flour that are in ordinary use, should be given encouragement and brought to a successful accomplishment, because it is undoubtedly true that the mills at present existing in the Free State could, with comparatively small extension, supply the needs of this people in respect of the milling of flour. It may be that under a rationalisation scheme which covers this country, but which has as its end the satisfaction of the British milling industry will, as a natural complement of their rationalisation process, at some point find it uneconomic to mill their wheat in this country. In the course of the discussion some months ago it was pointed out that the capacity for milling economically overseas-grown wheat was much greater on the banks of the Mersey than in existing mills in this country, with the possible exception of one, and it was inferred, apart from any handicap respecting the position of freight and so on, that it was desirable not to allow to be developed the milling of Irish demands for flour in that mill, where it could be done most economically, all pointing to the Mersey Mills.
I think we ought not to allow the flour needs of this country to be dependent on the possible superiority of technical equipment of mills in another country. There again I am assuming that it is thought desirable that we should keep within this country a flour-milling industry. If we are agreed that it is necessary, I think we ought to be prepared to pay a price, whether in money value or in fancy, taste or fashion, for the maintaining of those mills in this country.
I think the motion is justified. I think there ought to be control of the proportions of flour and wheat that are imported, and that beyond that there should be a direct attempt, with the aid of the Government and the legislature, to bring the flour-milling industry into a national organisation, with the clear and definite object of supplying the flour needs of the people of this country, to be run with what ever checks and controls are necessary. I believe that the cost to the consumer in this country would be very trifling, indeed, if anything, but even if some trifling addition to the cost, some trifling sacrifice in taste or fancy was required, the price ought to be paid, and the milling industry in this country ought to be secured for this country.