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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 Jul 1931

Vol. 14 No. 31

The Adjournment—Butter Exporting Order.

On the motion for the adjournment, I desire to bring before the Seanad the question of the regulations recently made by the Minister for Agriculture in the Butter Exporting Examination Order, 1931. This Order relates to the export of all kinds of butter—farmers' butter as well as creamery. My observations will have reference only to the export of farmers' butter. It was only very recently that this regulation was laid on the Table. I think it was at our last meeting that it first appeared on the Table. I do not know whether or not the Dáil has had an opportunity of considering it. According to the Dairy Produce Act, the Minister is entitled to make those regulations. The only authority the Dáil and the Seanad have is that they can, within a certain period, pass a resolution annulling the Order if they find it is working harshly on the people concerned. It is proposed that this Order come into force on 1st August, which is next Saturday. In consequence of the urgency of the matter, I ask leave of the Cathaoirleach to bring the question forward now.

Already the effects of this Order are being felt in the country. I have had a number of communications from home butter-makers in different parts of the country to the effect that the purchase of their produce has ceased and that the merchants are not prepared to buy from them in consequence of the restrictions imposed by this Order. I have got a telegram from Adrigole, a rural district in County Cork, on the borders of Kerry. The telegram says: "Our butter being refused because of export restrictions. Do something for us, as it will mean bankruptcy for poor farmers." That telegram is signed by the Rev. Fr. O'Sullivan, P.P.; John O'Shea, D. Sullivan and J. Downey. Similar communications have come from Caherciveen, Dingle and Kilrush, County Clare. What I ask the Minister to do is to give these farmers more time to consider how they will meet this Order, and perhaps, after consultation with the Minister, he will be able to work out some plan by which the exportation examination will be carried out without serious injury to the farmers who are making home butter. The quality of home butter made in this country is quite equal to that of creamery. The quantity, I believe, of the two is about the same.

There are districts where it is impossible to establish creameries. In many cases farmers, even if they had creameries at their doors, would prefer to make butter on their own farm premises simply for the reason that they can rear better calves with the fresh separated milk than with the milk that would come back to them from the creamery. If there is one department of the farmers' business which pays in some way at the present time, it is the rearing of good calves and the sale of them as yearlings. Many farmers are afraid that it is the policy of the Government to wipe out home dairying altogether, and that the Government is out for compelling all farmers to establish creameries in their districts and to send all their milk to those establishments. I think it is very wrong to interfere with the discretion of the farmer as to how he will carry on his business. Those farmers who make home butter are not subsidised in any way by the Government. They ask to be let alone, to sell their butter in the best market, and to sell it only on its merits. They do not receive a brand or a Government guarantee such as is given in the case of creamery butter.

The restrictions in the Order provide that the quality of the home-made butter shall be within four points of the quality of the best creamery butter. I think that is a very drastic regulation, because we all know that, although many people like home-made butter, and prefer it to creamery butter, still it has not the general qualities or the general flavour of creamery butter. The manufacture of this butter has not been helped in any way. I believe it is almost impossible for a farmer to get help to buy even a hand separator. The whole idea seems to be to drive the manufacture of butter into the creamery, and I think that it is a great mistake. I think farmers ought to be allowed to select the method of carrying on their work and of making their butter.

There should be no compulsion on them to patronise creameries if they do not wish to do so. The Order has been made, and there will not be an opportunity of going into the matter fully until the Seanad and the Dáil meet again in October. I would ask the Minister that at least during that period, or until the 1st November next, he would not enforce this Order as far as it relates to farmers' butter and the butter that would be exported by butter factories, because the only purchasers the makers of farmers' butter have are the proprietors of butter factories who make up their butter and export it to Great Britain as well as to certain other parts of the world. Anything that will hamper them in the purchase of that butter will react on the farmer, because when they find an obstacle to the export of the butter they will naturally cease to purchase, or will purchase it at such a price as will not at all pay the farmer. I would be quite satisfied if the operation of the Order, so far as farmers' butter is concerned, was postponed until at least the 1st November, and so give the farmers of the country an opportunity perhaps of consulting with the butter merchants, and also with the Minister, to try and devise means that would carry out the object the Minister has in view of having a proper examination of butter and, at the same time, do no serious injury to the farmers who are producing it.

I rise to support the motion of Senator Linehan. I have here a copy of the Census of Production of 1929, Report No. 8.

Cathaoirleach

This is not a motion. It is a debate on the adjournment and it must end promptly at 8.15 p.m. I have no choice in that matter.

I will finish in five minutes. These figures show that 50 per cent. of the creamery butter is produced in two counties—Cork and Limerick—and that 66 ?rd per cent. is produced in Cork, Limerick and Tipperary. The statement of Senator Linehan with regard to the production of butter, namely, that the amount of butter produced in the farmer's home and the amount produced in the creameries approximate closely to fifty-fifty is correct. It will accordingly be seen that apart from three counties, Cork, Limerick and Tipperary, the vast bulk of butter produced is farmers' butter, and it is produced not primarily as a dairying industry, but as an art which carries with it the rearing of pigs and calves.

Any order that would interfere with that over such wide parts of the country would be very onerous and I think in many cases productive of ruinous losses to the farmer. When this Order came out I looked up the "Grocer," which is a sort of official trade paper, and looked up the quotations for New Zealand butter. The quotations ran this way: finest, such a price; good to fine, such a price; inferior, such a price. The same was true of Australian butters. In fact, it is true of all butters except Danish. As we know, the Danes have no cattle trade, which is the biggest trade in this country. I know it would be easier for the Department and the Minister if only one quality of butter were produced here, but that does not fit in with the advantage to the farmers. Creameries have been advocated and set up in a great many districts in Ireland where they have as much chance of succeeding as if they were established at the North Pole. I suggest to the Minister that he should ask for a return for the last fifteen years showing the number of co-operative creameries and societies that have been wound up. I think it will astonish him. Notwithstanding that, public money is being given to the Irish Agricultural Organisation Society which advocates creameries in districts where experience would go to show that they had no chance of success. It is said that this butter interferes with the marketing and reduces the price of creamery butter. It does not do that. The buyer in England is not a fool. He knows what he is buying. It no more does that than that the price of a good hunter interferes with that of a racehorse or that of a draught horse interferes with a racer. There are different classes for different purposes and they are well known.

I am convinced that there are many parts of the country where, no matter what the farmers do, they will not produce butter which would pass any Government standard. That butter is sold to biscuit manufacturers, sugar boilers, and for other manufacturing purposes of that kind. It is important that the farmers who are compelled by circumstances to produce butter of that sort should not have losses inflicted on them. The Minister has power under the Dairy Produce Act to permit the export of butter under licence. I think that might be a matter for consideration. He may, if he so wills, prescribe certain forms of branding for butter—"Not for table use" or some such brand as that. He may take it from me if it does not suit the buyer in England he will immediately erase that mark. Still if he wants to take that precaution he can do it. I know a deputation is meeting the Minister to-morrow, but I hope that whatever the result of this will be that it will not inflict losses on farmers who find it all they can do at present to make things pay. I will go so far as to say that in the very best dairy districts farmers cannot make things pay unless they employ their own labour.

According to Senator Linehan and Senator Dowdall one would imagine that no butter could be exported except creamery butter. I want to ask the Minister is that so, or whether all butter up to a certain standard can be exported and that the order only prohibits the exportation of low-class butter. Could the Minister give us the percentage of dairy as compared with factory butter?

The figures given by both Senators are completely beside the point. It is true that 50 per cent. of the butter manufactured in this country is manufactured at home by the farmers. The other 50 per cent. is manufactured in the creameries, but this Order does not deal, as Senators know well, with all butter manufactured. It only deals with butter exported, and the figures for butter exports are as follow: 130,000 cwts. of factory butter and about 450,000 cwts. of creamery butter. This Order only deals with those two classes of butter. Senators can take it that about half the butter produced in the country is exported—half the creamery butter anyway. If there are 450,000 cwts. exported it means that there are 900,000 cwts. of creamery butter produced. Presumably if there is the same amount of home-made butter as creamery butter, there must be something like 900,000 cwts. of home-made butter. That is about 1,800,000 cwts of butter altogether. This Order only affects 130,000 cwts. of factory butter. Senators are completely beside the point when they speak of the dilemma of the farmers and about compelling all farmers to send their milk to the creameries or preventing them from making butter at home. Of course, it is not the policy of the Government to compel farmers to send their milk to the creameries or to prevent them making butter at home. In the County Galway there never was, and never will be, a creamery until there are four times as many cows. The economy of that county is different from the Counties of Roscommon and Mayo. There is one creamery in a certain district in Roscommon. Where it would be uneconomic to have creameries butter will be made at home, and mostly consumed at home. So it is idle for Senators at this hour of the day to pretend that they think it is the Government policy to compel every farmer to send his milk to a creamery. I would have to send my milk about one hundred miles in order to reach the nearest creamery, and it will be a long time before there will be a creamery nearer. The big majority of the farmers go in for mixed farming, stores, fat cattle, pigs and poultry.

It has been said that this Order has been sprung on the butter factories and on the farmers who are making butter at home and sending it to the butter factories. That is not the position. In October, 1929, this question of defining some standard for home-made butter came up for discussion when a Consultative Council was set up under the Dairy Produce Act. That Council contained representatives of practically every leading agricultural organisation in the country—the farmers, the factories, the creameries, and other well-known people outside. It is a big body of fifteen, sixteen, or more persons. This Order was discussed and a motion was proposed and seconded by farmers there to the effect that the same standards should be applied to the export of factory butter as to the export of creamery butter. The motion was carried with one dissentient. A week after that resolution was passed, the intention of the Department of Agriculture to provide some standard for exported butter was published in every paper in Ireland, and since then discussions have gone on in connection with it. Months after that there was a meeting with the butter merchants, and they were told that this was the intention. It was finally suggested, and they agreed, that they should send forward to the surprise butter inspection certain samples of their factory butter. They did that. In addition to that, for the last year or two we have been examining factory butter leaving the ports, and we have been conducting these examinations with a view to arriving at a workable standard for factory butter.

It is as a result of these examinations that we have provided this standard of fifty marks for factory butter. In fact, during the last three months seventy-one per cent. of the butter we examined—and we examined over thirteen thousand samples of factory butter—has come up to the standard. What is our object? It is not to force people to go to creameries. We have no power to do that. It would be undesirable in cases. It is not to force people or to prevent people from making factory butter. The object of this Order is to prevent people from making bad butter, whether it be factory or creamery butter, and is not that quite a legitimate object? Whether it is legitimate or not it is entirely a different matter. I would agree that Senators would have some reason if I compelled creameries——

Cathaoirleach

The House stands adjourned sine die.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.15 p.m.

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