I take it that the Committee Stage of this Bill will be taken to-day. The amendments have only just come in and it has not been possible for the Senators to have seen them up to now. The amendments are now lying on the Table and Senators who desire a copy of the amendments can have them.
Public Business. - Eucharistic Congress (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 1932—Second Stage.
Cathaoirleach
Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
The usual purpose of a Second Reading speech is to persuade the House that it is necessary to give effect to the principles embodied in the Bill. The present Bill, as the Senators will see from the Title, is a Bill to make provision for the great Eucharistic Congress. From conversations I have had with some members of this House, and from what one may observe generally, I feel it is rather preaching to the converted to urge that it is necessary to provide special facilities at the present time for this Congress, which will extend over a period of ten or twelve days. There seems to be well-nigh universal agreement that some modification of the existing law is necessary. Accordingly, I feel that I need not go further in labouring the matter on the Second Reading or asking you to accept the principle of the Bill. With your permission and with the permission of the House, I will reserve what I have to say for the Committee Stage, which I trust the House will take to-day. Any observations on the various clauses of the Bill I will reserve for the Committee Stage.
With the Bill as a Bill I agree. But I should like to know if the Minister can indicate to the House what conditions, if any, he proposes to attach to these unlicensed vehicles and drivers which the Bill proposes to allow to operate on the public highways during the Congress period. All sorts and conditions of vehicles, road-worthy and otherwise but most unroad-worthy, will make their appearance during that period. The drivers of these vehicles may be unlicensed and to that extent, I am afraid their sense of responsibility will not be increased. Then we must remember that every one of these vehicles is an uninsured vehicle. A man is not likely to insure a motor car or vehicle of any kind against third-party risks unless he is using it. I can see, from this, tremendous risks arising not alone to the pedestrians but also to other vehicles using the public highways during that period. A man may be knocked down and killed by a vehicle which is not insured, the owner of which is not capable of paying compensation.
I quite admit and I quite appreciate the necessity and desirability of placing as much transport as is possible at the disposal of the community during that period, but I hardly think we are justified in doing that if it involves a very serious menace to the public. If we bring sorrow and suffering to numbers of homes and if we find that we are unable to compensate these people because of the fact that the vehicles responsible for the casualties are not insured, we will find it hard to justify to ourselves the risks involved in Sections 4 and 5 of this Bill. The number of these vehicles from the viewpoint of public safety will be considerable. From the point of view of the relief of congestion, I am afraid their effects will be negligible. There will be hundreds and thousands of people who cannot secure transport during that period and these unlicensed vehicles and drivers will only relieve a certain proportion of these. What these vehicles undoubtedly will do will be to increase the perils of the highways for pedestrians and for people using forms of road transport. I hope that the Minister will, if possible, make some arrangement by which we can at least identify these people afterwards in the case of accidents.
The Minister, for instance, will be up against a very serious proposition where breaches of the traffic regulations are committed or where a driver knocks somebody down, and does not stop, if there are not some identification marks by which that person can be traced. I presume that cars will be expected to carry their number plates, but if you hold up a driver of a car, and he has no driving licence— you cannot summon him for that—and be gives a wrong name and address I can see a series of difficulties developing. I would not like that, in order to accommodate people who will not be able to get transport otherwise, we should take such a very serious risk as is involved in this Bill, unless the Minister is able to show that reasonable precautions are being taken to safeguard the public.
Cathaoirleach
There are two amendments dealing with that question on the Order Paper, one by the Government and another by Senator Fanning, and I think, perhaps, when these come to be dealt with——
The first amendment says "subject to such regulations," and I thought the Minister might be able to indicate to the House the type of regulations he would make.
I appreciate the importance of what Senator O'Farrell has said, and when I come to deal with the various clauses, I shall necessarily have something to say about them and other matters, or perhaps I should deal with it now. As regards clause 2, Senators will observe that provision is made there for the use of imported omnibuses and cars. So far as that section will operate the conditions prescribed by the Revenue Commissioners in sub-clause (2) will, I think, afford some measure of protection to the public apart from what I feel is the inherent protection that it will not be worth while to bring in from outside the Irish Free State some ramshackle, rickety vehicle. At least, it is improbable that anyone will go to the trouble of bringing in a vehicle from outside. It may occur, of course. If that is attempted to be done on any large scale, or perhaps even in the case of a single vehicle, the Revenue Commissioners may, by virtue of their powers in sub-clause (2), deal with the matter.
As regards clause 5 of the Bill, I have, as the Chairman has pointed out, an amendment on the Paper which will, to some extent at all events, meet certain of the objections of Senator O'Farrell. The matter of unlicensed drivers has been referred to by him. The value of a driver's licence in the main is for identification purposes, but it is not always a certain identification, because the tendering of somebody else's licence is not uncommon; but usually it is a valuable document for the purpose of identifying the driver of a car. Beyond its value for identification purposes, it is really of little use, because any person who is over the age of 16, I think it is, may, on going to the office of the local authority, and tendering the sum of 10s., obtain a driver's licence, unless he has been disabled by order of a competent court which has disqualified him for a period, or for the rest of his life, from obtaining a licence.
The applicant is not subjected to any test as to his ability to drive or as to his freedom from some physical defect which might render him a dangerous driver, and for that reason, I do not attach a great deal of importance to the possession of a driver's licence in itself as a safeguard in driving. Of course, it is of some little importance because I suppose, as a rule, people do not apply for licences unless they have a measure of skill. The probability also is that it would be only the very daring unlicensed driver who will attempt to drive a car during the Congress period. It will be seen also that this permission is granted by the Minister for Local Government and Public Health and it may be, and probably will be, that the Minister will take such steps as will ensure the identification of the person who is driving without a licence during that period.
As to insurance, compulsory insurance does not yet obtain in the Irish Free State, and whether a car is licensed or unlicensed, it may or may not be insured against third party risks. This Bill, except for a trifling matter which has not been referred to yet, and for which I am personally responsible, is the result of an interDepartmental Committee's labours. This Committee went into the whole matter with great care over a long period. It did not formally, I think, invite representations from the various parties who are mainly concerned during this Congress period, but they did hear and consider representations made by representatives of the Eucharistic Congress Committee, by the police and by certain of the trades affected. It was felt that the Bill as it stands will meet all the reasonable and probable needs. I do not represent it as a perfect Bill and indeed, if you were to attempt to prepare a perfect Bill for this, and guard against every possible contingency, however remote, the Bill would be an exceedingly elaborate one. I am not opening the amendments because I presume the House would not consider it appropriate, but any Senator who has a copy of the paper which I understand has been laid on the Table will see that there are amendments of the nature I have indicated.
Question—That the Bill be now read a Second Time—put and agreed to.