This is a Bill to put the members of the regular army on the same footing as members of the Civil Service and Gárda Síochána. Up to now, there has been no provision made for pensions for men serving in the regular army even though they have made it their life occupation. Under this Bill, the Minister for Defence will have power, after consultation with and having received the approval of the Minister for Finance, to prepare a scheme which will provide pensions for officers and men who have made army service their life work. The House will notice that there are no details of the pension scheme in this Bill. This is merely an enabling Bill and, later on, if this Bill is approved of, a pension scheme will be prepared and put before the Dáil and the Seanad. A motion approving of the scheme will have to be put through both Houses before it comes into operation and any future amendment of the scheme will have to go through a similar procedure. There is very little more that one can say about the Bill. It will be a matter for the Dáil and the Seanad to criticise the proposals when they come forward. I believe the scheme is long overdue. If a man serves twenty or twenty-five years in the army he is entitled to the same consideration as members of the Gárda Síochána or members of the ordinary Civil Service. I trust the Seanad will approve of the Bill.
Public Business. - Defence Forces (Pensions) Bill, 1932—Second Stage.
I am afraid I am very ignorant about all these pension questions and I should like some information as to the statutes under which certain individuals now draw pensions who served in the army. I suppose there has been legislation and it would help us to appreciate this Bill if we knew, very broadly, under what statutes pensions are now awarded to certain people who have served in the army in the past.
A Military Service Pensions Bill was passed through both Houses in 1924. There were two Wound Pensions Bills passed in 1924 and 1927. The Military Service Pensions Bill was passed in 1924 and, under it, pensions were granted to men who had pre-truce and post-truce service. Service in 1916 was reckoned as pre-truce service as well as service during the Black and Tan War, and service in the Free State Army, after the truce, and up to the end of 1923, was reckoned as post-truce service. Claimants sent in their claims and were awarded the pensions. The maximum pension awarded was, I think, about £380 for a lieutenant-general who had served from 1916 to 1923, and the pensions ranged from that down to £24 or so, for privates who had served a short time before the truce and after the truce. The period covered by these pensions stopped in 1923 and service in the Free State Army for any year after that did not add to the pension allocated under the Act. This Bill is designed to cover service in the regular army since 1922, and for the future, and it is similar to other Acts in operation in England, America and other countries for officers and men of the regular army.
Could the Minister say whether it is contemplated that the men referred to will be long service soldiers?
They will have to be members of the regular army. The Bill does not make provision for reservists. There are two schemes in respect of reservists in the army at the moment—one section serves for one year and goes on the reserve for a few years while the other section serves for three years and then goes on the reserve, but the pension scheme will not cover these. It will only cover men who have long term service.
Is there any section of the army at present which is recruited on the understanding that they are going to remain in the army for a period long enough to qualify them for a pension?
No, there is not.
Is it contemplated that there will be a change in the terms of recruitment and that there shall be established a long-service army?
That is a question that might more properly be raised on the Army Bill than on a Pensions Bill.
It seems to be foreshadowed.
Cathaoirleach
The Committee Stage will be taken on the next day we meet.
Agreed.