The next business on the Order Paper is the Second Stage of the Central Fund Bill, 1934 (Certified Money Bill).
Order of Business.
Cathaoirleach
Might I ask the House to take the Defence Forces (Temporary Provisions) Bill now, as the Minister for Defence is here?
I think we should have some explanation and justification for this request from the Minister. So far as I know, there is now no business in the Dáil personal to the Minister for Finance and, therefore, there is no reason, unless the Minister is indisposed, why he should not be here to enable us to deal with the business in the order in which it appears on the Order Paper. This is not mere cussedness on my part. There is a very definite, practical reason why the Central Fund Bill should be taken in advance of the Defence Forces Bill. There are matters of policy in relation to the Army Vote, or Army expenditure, which can be discussed much more satisfactorily on the Central Fund Bill than on the Defence Forces Bill. For that reason, I think we should deal, in the first instance, with the Central Fund Bill. It is undesirable that the order of business, as indicated on the Order Paper, should be disturbed unless adequate reason is forthcoming. So far, the Minister for Lands and Fisheries has given no reason for this request.
Cathaoirleach
If there was a desire to criticise certain items on the Central Fund Bill, the more appropriate time would be on the Committee Stage.
I should like to make clear that I have no desire that the order of business, as set out in the Order Paper, should be departed from but, as the matter has arisen, I should like to get a direction from you, a Chathaoirligh. When these items are put down on the Order Paper, does it mean that we must of necessity follow that order?
Cathaoirleach
I should not be inclined to hold that.
In the other House— I think it applies here also—the Leader of the House has the privilege of determining the order in which business will be taken. I should like to have a ruling from you, a Chathaoirligh, on that matter for my own guidance and the guidance of the House.
I think it is an important question.
What is the explanation of the inability of the Minister for Finance to be here? Nobody wants to press this question if there is any reason for the Minister's absence. Will he be here later?
The Minister for Finance will not be here to-day as he is laid up and is debarred from leaving his own house. That, however, has nothing to do with my suggestion about taking No. 4 on the Order Paper. I made that suggestion with a view to facilitating the Minister for Defence and releasing him for duty in the other House. If there is any objection to the adoption of that suggestion I have no objection to going on with the Central Fund Bill now. I should like, however, to have a ruling as to the power of discretion in the Leader of the House as regards indicating the order of business. Is he bound to conform to the strict order as laid down on the Order Paper, or can he ask the House to take business in an order which may be more convenient?
Cathaoirleach
The custom of this House has been, in the case of a desire to depart from the order of business set out on the Orders of the Day, to ask the leave of the House to do so. The House is the judge. It is generally agreed, on the suggestion of the Chairman, to comply, as of course, with any variation in the order which may be suggested by the Leader of the House. I cannot recall a case where that custom has been departed from until now, but the ultimate decision rests with the House.
I said that there would be an excuse if the Minister was indisposed. I gather that the Minister is indisposed. I do not think that the House will get a satisfactory discussion if the Central Fund Bill is proceeded with in the absence of the Minister for Finance. If the Minister cannot be here, I suggest that the discussion on that Bill be deferred until such day and hour as he can be present.
As a matter of logical sequence, if it turned out that the House decided not to pass the Second Stage of the Defence Forces (Temporary Provisions) Bill, we should not require to vote so much money under the Central Fund Bill.
I propose that the Second Stage of the Central Fund Bill be adjourned until this day week when, I hope, the Minister will be present.
Cathaoirleach
I was trying to obtain a decision as to whether or not the House would take the Defence Forces (Temporary Provisions) Bill now in order to convenience the Minister for Defence.
May I suggest that there is no ulterior motive in moving in this way? I should prefer to have the business transacted in the order in which it appears on the Paper to having the House labour under any grievance in connection with the matter. We are not asking for anything unreasonable. As I have explained, the indisposition of the Minister for Finance had nothing to do with the request I made.
Cathaoirleach
It is common custom, when a Minister wants to get away to the other House, to take a Bill out of the usual order. I ask the House to take this Bill out of order.
On the understanding that the other Bill will not be discussed until this day week.
Cathaoirleach
We can discuss that question later. Is it agreed that we take the Defence Forces (Temporary Provisions) Bill now?
Agreed.