Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 Jul 1934

Vol. 18 No. 30

University College, Dublin, Bill, 1934—Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be read a Second Time."

Minister for Finance (Mr. MacEntee)

As the Seanad is probably aware, the present State endowment of University College, Dublin, for the general purposes of the College is £82,000 per annum. There is, in addition, payable to the College for the purposes of the Faculty of General Agriculture, an annual sum, not exceeding £24,984.

In November of 1931 the then Minister for Finance, on behalf of the Executive Council, gave an under taking to a deputation from University College, Dublin, that the Government would provide, within a maximum of £3,000 per annum, the salaries and extra outlay falling on the College in the reorganisation and expansion of the Department of Modern Irish. The substance of this under taking was subsequently confirmed by the present Government. This Bill is introduced to give effect to that confirmation.

I may say that as a consequence of the discussion which took place in regard to the undertaking the College authorities have agreed to make arangements to bring a knowledge of spoken Irish to a satisfactory standard in the case of students of the College who desire to be admitted to degrees.

The Academic Council have adopted the proposal providing that in future no student of the College will be admitted to degrees in Arts, Commerce, Science or Agricultural Science until he or she has passed such oral examination in Irish as will ensure that he or she can speak Irish correctly and (2) that no student will be admitted to a degree in the professional faculties of Medicine, Engineering, Dentistry and Architecture until he or she has passed such oral examination in Irish as will ensure that the student can carry on a conversation in Irish on simple topics. As students in the Faculty of Law must first take an Arts degree, they must, accordingly, fulfil the conditions for Art students. I should like to point out that exemption from these conditions may be necessary in the case of a small number of foreign students. They, accordingly, will be made. The House may observe that the preamble to the Bill recites the fact that the governing body has agreed to make such provisions. The preamble, however, has no executive effect but places on record the facts and circumstances in which the Bill has origin and serves as a recognition of the steps taken by the governing body of the college to increase the use of Irish in the curriculum. As I have already said, the undertaking in which this Bill has its origin was given by my predecessor in November, 1931, was confirmed by the present Government and this measure is introduced in fulfilment of these pledges.

Colonel Moore

I should like to support the motion. Perhaps I am one of the few people here, if there be any other, who have been through this agitation on the subject of Irish in the University from the beginning—I should say the Cathaoirleach, too. I remember I was on the Coiste Gnotha of the Gaelic League some years ago, when the question of establishing a University College in this country arose. It was late at night and we discussed the matter at length. We passed a resolution, which we had very little hope of succeeding in at the time, that we should not recognise the University unless Irish was a compulsory subject. I remember leaving the room that night thinking that it was very fine to be brave in these matters but I did not quite know how we were going to carry it out. I am talking in rather an historical way. Two or three days afterwards, it happened that a certain very respected Jesuit wrote an article in the paper saying that to propose such a thing as compulsory Irish in the University was perfect madness and that it was impossible to carry it out. That was the more remarkable because he was himself an advocate of Irish, generally speaking. The matter began to spread through the country and for several months it was almost the only subject considered in Ireland. It took the fancy of the country and there was correspondence in the newspapers about it and the people thought of almost nothing else. The next thing that happened was an assemblage of the Archbishops and the Committee of Bishops who passed a resolution stating that anyone who proposed such a motion as compulsory Irish in the University was—I forget the term used but, at any rate, was not a good citizen and probably not a good Catholic. Amongst those people was myself and I found that I was spoken of very badly by a great many people who had been my friends and all sorts of crimes were attributed to me.

We pursued our subject without faltering in spite of all these animosities. I remember that a Minister who was over here at the time said that he did not think the Irish people were such fools as to adopt such a ridiculous motion. They were all against us but we fought our battle right through. We did not mind what the Bishops said or what anybody said and the longer we fought, the better we got on. Finally, a meeting of the Senate of the University took place at which this question was considered, and a curious thing happened when it came to a vote. The Senate was divided evenly into two sections, for and against. The Chancellor of the University at the time was Archbishop Walsh, who had headed the resolution of the Bishops which said that it was ridiculous and improper to propose such a thing as compulsory Irish in the University. It came to a division and he was asked to give his casting vote and in spite of what he had said before, in the resolution of the Bishops, he voted in favour of compulsory Irish. I mention those facts because they are matters of history and everybody does not remember them.

We have now taken another step. Not only is Irish to be compulsory for the young people entering the University, but it is practically necessary for the whole University. That shows how the motion has moved on from being a hopeless case into being practically admitted by everyone in this country at present. I do not expect that there will be any objection to the money which is being expended for this purpose.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, July 18th.