Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Dec 1934

Vol. 19 No. 9

Public Dance Halls Bill, 1934—Committee Stage.

Section 1 to 14 agreed to.

Mr. S. Robinson

I move the following amendment.

New section. Before Section 15 to insert a new section as follows:—

15.—This Act shall not apply in relation to public dancing carried on in any recreation room managed or conducted under the authority of the Minister for Defence or of the Commissioner of the Gárda Síochána."

The amendment exempts from the scope of this Bill recreation rooms conducted under the authority of the Minister for Defence or the Commissioner of the Gárda Síochána. As regards military recreation rooms the Department of Defence state that they propose to bring in a permanent Defence Forces Bill which will exempt such rooms from any regulations relating to public dances, and it is desirable that there should be reciprocal provisions included in the present Bill as regards the Gárda Síochána. There is a dance hall at the Depôt in which the recruits and their friends occasionally hold ceilidhthe, and it would be absurd if the Gárda Síochána, which is the enforcing authority, had to obtain licences for their own hall. I am informed the Minister cannot be here for some time as he is engaged in the other House.

Cathaoirleach

It would apply to every place except such halls.

Mr. Johnson

I think this is an ill-advised amendment. It would be far better if the Army and Gárda authorities put themselves, at least, in the same category as the rest of the public by showing example and the desirability of keeping things in line with decency and good order. I do not think the case that has been made is a strong one. It is purely a formal matter for the Gárda and the Minister for Defence to obtain the necessary licences. It is not good practice deliberately to insert exemptions in respect to dances carried out by these authorities from the requirements of every decent organisation. Unless this is an absolutely necessity I think the Minister would be very ill-advised to press it.

Miss Browne

I agree with Senator Johnson on this matter. These authorities should set good example to the rest of the country. I should like to know if the amendment applies to all dances held under the auspices of the Gárda Síochána throughout the country, or only to the recreation hall at the Depôt and halls in barracks.

Mr. Robinson

Only to the recreation hall at the Depôt and to halls in barracks.

Miss Browne

Then it does not matter.

Minister for Justice (Mr. Ruttledge)

This will only affect recreation halls. It will not affect all dances. In the country, the dances are invitation dances and they are not held in the barracks as a rule. It is intended to apply it to these dances.

Mr. Johnson

I do not know anything about the possibility of dancing in the Gárda recreation rooms, but supposing they were to be exempt from any obligation, if the Bill is necessary for other organisations, the great majority of which are well conducted, and have regard to the decencies, it would be desirable, as a matter of example, that rooms under the authority of the Minister should conform to the regular law.

Mr. Ruttledge

It seems absurd that people who are enforcing the law should have to go to the District Justice to get an order with regard to it. I have no information of any barracks being used by the Guards at any time for dancing. They could not do so without getting the permission of the Commissioner, and I do not think there is any possibility of such a thing arising. In my opinion it would not be considered desirable that it should.

Mr. Johnson

If it is an absurdity the formal act would not be advertised very much. The exemption does not seem to me to be justified.

Mr. Staines

I cannot understand why the Gárda Síochána should be brought into this question. There is not a single barracks in which a dance could be held. There is no accommodation, in the first place, and in many barracks there is not even sufficient sleeping accommodation for the men. The only place I know where dances are held is at the Depôt. I am not a dancing man, but I was there a few times when dances were held for charitable purposes. I must say that the dances were always well conducted.

Miss Browne

As a rule these dances are held in hotels in the country, so that the amendment does not apply to them.

Colonel Moore

I am anxious to know whether the amendment means that the Guards are to define in country places whether dances with which they have no connection are to be allowed, or is the exemption limited?

Cathaoirleach

It applies only to their own dances.

Mr. Ruttledge

The Guards will have to interpret the Act.

Amendment put and declared carried.

Section 15 agreed to.

Bill ordered to be reported.

Report Stage ordered for Thursday, 20th December.