The Cathaoirleach has given permission to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Lands to attend and be heard on the Housing (Gaeltacht) (Amendment) Bill, and on the motion in the name of Senator Johnston.
Public Business. - Housing (Gaeltacht) (Amendment) Bill, 1939 ( Certified Money Bill )— Second and Subsequent Stages.
Leas-Chathaoirleach
Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
Tá an Bille á thabhairt isteach chun Achtanna na dTithe (Gaeltacht) 1929 agus 1934, do leasú le breis airgid do chur ar fáil. Cuireadh dhá chéad agus caoga míle púnt (£250,000) ar fáil fé'n bhPríomh Acht, sé sin Acht na dTithe (Gaeltacht) 1929, chun tithe comhnaithe sa Ghaeltacht do thógail nó d'fheabhsú, agus chun cróite cearc agus cróite muc do thógail nó d'fheabhsú freisin; agus méaduíodh an suim sin go sé chéad agus caoga míle púnt (£650,000) fé Acht na dTithe (Gaeltacht) (Leasú) 1934. Tá an suim sin curtha in áirithe agus ionnus go bhféadfaí leanúint leis an obair ní mór breis soláthar do dhéanamh anois.
Tá 2,673 tithe comhnaithe tógtha, agus 2,015 sean tithe feabhsuithe fés na hAchtanna agus tá congnamh ceaduithe chun 1,240 tithe nua eile do thógáil, agus chun 508 sean tithe d'fheabhsú; chomh maith leis sin, tá 4,593 cróite ceare agus 2,927 cróite muc tógtha nó feabhsuithe, agus tá congnamh ceaduithe i gcóir 2,077 cróite cearc agus 1,460 cróite muc eile. Ioctar an congnamh airgid a ceaduítear fés na hAchtanna i dtráth-chodanna, do réir mar theidheann an deonaí chun cinn leis an obair, ach ní íoctar an tráth-chuid-deireannach go dtí go mbíonn an obair ar fad críochnuithe chun sástachta na Roinne. De ghnáth, tógann sé tuairim is dhá bhliain chun tigh comhnaithe do thógáil sa Ghaeltacht. Ceapfaí, b'fhéidir, gur tréimhse ró fhada é seo, ach ní mór cuimhneamh go mbíonn ar an deonaí cuid mhaith den obair do dhéanamh, agus nach mór dó, ag an am céadna, aire a thabhairt dá fheirm nó do pé gnó eile a bhíonn ar siubhal aige chun slighe bheatha do bhaint amach.
Chífear ó'n a bhfuil ráidhte agam go bhfuil cuid mhaith oibre déanta fés na hAchtanna, ach ní mór a thuigsint go bhfuil a lán le déanamh fós. Deineadh an scéal d'iniúchadh tamall ó shoin, agus meastar go bhfuil tuairim is deich míle (10,000) tithe nua eile ag teastáil sa Ghaeltacht agus go bhfuil tuairim is dhá mhíle (2,000) sean tithe ann, go bhfuil feabhsú in easnamh orra. Obair tabhachtach í, ceist na dTithe sa Ghaeltacht do réiteach, agus táim cinnte go n-aontóchaidh gach Seanadóir gur cóir an obair do choimeád ar siubhal agus do chur chun cinn chomh fada agus is féidir é. Is baolach go mbeidh deachrachtaí ag baint le soláthar na n-abhar tógála go fóill beag, go mór-mór adhmad, toisc an cogadh atá ar siubhal, ach mar sin féin sé mo thuairim láidir agus tuairim an Riaghaltais, nach ceart staona de'n obair an fhaid agus is féidir aon dul chun cinn do dhéanamh.
Sa Bhille atá á chur os bhúr gcomhair anois, níl dá iarraidh ach céad míle púnt (£100,000) agus meastar gur leór an suim sin chun an obair do choimeád ar siubhal, go ceann dhá bhliain nó b'fhéidir trí bliana, do réir mar a bheidh. Níl aon athrú á dhéanamh fé'n Bhille ar na coiníollacha ar a dtugtar congnamh fés na hAchtanna, agus mar sin, tairgim go léighfear an Bille seo de'n dara uair.
Might I suggest-though it may not be in order to do so —that it is unfortunate that certain subjects should be selected by the Department as those that are always to be dealt with in the Irish language. If it is desired that those who have not got a knowledge of Irish should take an interest in Gaeltacht housing and education, Ministerial utterances should not be uniformly in a language they do not understand. If it is the policy that there should be a certain number of Ministerial utterances in Irish, I would venture to suggest that they be scattered around amongst the various subjects in a certain proportion rather than that those utterances should be confined to one or two subjects, making them a closed book to those who do not understand Irish.
Os rud é go mbaineann an Bille seo leis an nGaeltacht agus leis an nGaedhilg, tá sé nádúrach agus ceart go rithfear i nGaedhilg é. Tá súil agam—agus ní uathbhásach an nós é—go gcuirfear gach rud annseo ins an Seanaid i nGaedhilg. Nílimíd ábalta é sin do dhéanamh go fóill, ach tig leis an Seanadóir Mac Diarmada agus leis an Seanadóir MacSheoin dul ar ais ar scoil ar feadh tamaill, go dtí go dtigfidh leo labhairt annseo i nGaedhilg. San dteanga san, is ceart Bille Tighthe na Gaeltachta rith.
Is Dóigh liom go bhfuil nós déanta ag Rúnaí an Aire labhairt i nGaedhilg annseo faoi chúrsaí áirithe. Ní fheadar an é sin an slighe is fearr chun an Gaedhilg do chur chun chinn. Nuair bhí an Rúnaí Pairliminte ag tabhairt an Bhille seo isteach, do léigh sé amach ó'n bpáipéar; ní fheadar an é sin an rud is fearr do dhéanamh chun an Ghaedhilg do chur i bhfeidhm. Is dóigh liom-sa chó fada agus nach dtuigeann na Seanadóirí nach bhfuil Gaedhilg aca, cad tá sa mBille seo, gur ceart seans do thabhairt dóibh an Béarla do labhairt, fiú amháin san scéim seo.
Meadair le cainnt an tSeanadóra MacFhionnlaoich, ni fheadar an ceart limistéar speisialta do dhéanamh de'n Ghaeltacht, agus gan ach Gaedhilg do labhairt mar gheall air. Ba cheart go dtuigimís go léir cad tá ar siubhal mar gheall ar an nGaeltacht, óir táimíd go léir ag díoladh na gcáineacha. Ba mhaith liom a rá leis an Rúnaí nár cheart rudaí do thabhairt isteach annseo agus gan focal Béarla do labhairt fútha, i dtreo is go mbeidh rudaí déanta ag na Seanadóirí nach dtuigeann siad rud ar bith díobh.
This idea of making a reservation of the Gaeltacht and talking Irish on certain subjects seems to me merely to be putting up a kind of linguistic defence and make-believe which is not accomplishing anything. I am in favour of the speaking of Irish on a great many occasions but think it is entirely wrong to pick education as one of those topics, as parents are entitled to know what is happening. Similarly, in the case of Gaeltacht housing it would not be any harm for people who do not know Irish to hear what is happening. Until Irish is made obligatory for entry into the Seanad or entry into the Government—which, by the way, it is not; one can become a parliamentary secretary without knowing any Irish—it would be no harm to let people know the facts as to what is happening with regard to education and taxation. In the other House the practice is followed of having an elaborate speech in Irish in the beginning of the debate and of having the Minister conclude in English, for what reason I will not say at the moment, but it is not very far to seek. While I sympathise with the use of Irish, it is not fair to use it as a defensive screen, as sometimes happens.
Ma's maith libh go ndéanfainn cainnt i mBéarla, b'fhéidir gur fearra dom cúpla rud do rá i mBéarla.
Ná déan é.
Déan.
Ní dubhairt aon Seanadóir do labhairt i nGaedhilg, ní dubhairt sé aon nidh mar gheall ar an mBille seo gidh go raibh a lán le rá aca faoi cheist na Gaedhilge. Ba mhaith liom a rá go bhfuil gach aon nidh maidir leis na tighthe san nGaeltacht á dhéanamh tríd an Ghaedhilg amháin.
Is maith an rud é sin.
Nuair do bhí na Seanadóirí ag labhairt i nGaedhilg, ní dóigh liom go ndubhairt siad aon nídh ag baint leis an nGaeltacht ach bhí siad ag cainnt faoi cheisteanna eile.
For those who have not understood what I said, perhaps I had better explain that this Bill is introduced for the purpose of making available a further sum of £100,000. It is considered sufficient to carry us over another year or two. I do not think that anybody in the House or outside it will object to granting that money. It is doing very useful work for the people in the Gaeltacht who are amongst the poorest in the country.
With regard to the question of introducing measures in Irish, I should like to inform the House that everything pertaining to Gaeltacht housing, and Gaeltacht services generally, is done through the medium of Irish. That policy is being enforced, particularly in that Department. That it is not being done in other Departments is due to the fact referred to by Senator Hayes—that public servants are in the same position as members of the Oireachtas inasmuch as they do not all understand Irish sufficiently to carry on the business through the medium of that language. If there is one Department which should transact its business through Irish, it is Gaeltacht services and, so far as possible, that is being done.
Abair é.
Níl a thuille agam lé rá. Is dócha go bhfuil gach Seanadóir ar thaoibh an Bhille.
Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining stages now.
Bill put through Committee, without amendment, recéived for final consideration and ordered to be returned to the Dáil.