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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Jul 1947

Vol. 34 No. 4

Great Southern Railways Company (Superannuation Scheme) Bill, 1947—Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The object of this Bill is to enable a superannuation scheme to be set up in this country for certain employees of the former Great Southern Railways Company who up to the present have been covered by a British scheme entitled the Railway Clearing System Superannuation Fund. This scheme was set up by statute in 1873 and most of the railway companies in these islands were members of it. The affairs of the corporation were reorganised in 1914 and again in 1941. The reorganisation involved substantially increased contributions and guarantees of solvency by the railway companies concerned. Most of the Irish railway companies refused to assent to these provisions at first, but all these companies eventually agreed except the Great Southern Railways Company. That company decided it would be preferable to set up their own scheme. When the fund was reorganised in 1941 the Great Southern Railways members were placed in special sections—named "C" and "D"—of the fund. The benefits provided for members of sections C and D were less than those applicable to other members, but the Great Southern Railways Company made good the loss to their employees by granting ex gratia supplementary benefits.

There are about 1,300 former employees of the Great Southern Railways Company in the scheme at present. The assets appropriate to sections C and D of the fund total approximately £1,000,000. The corporation have now agreed with Córas Iompair Eireann to transfer the assets, members and liabilities to trustees in this country so that a new superannuation scheme may be established.

The new scheme will apply to all salaried officers and clerks of the former Great Southern Railways Company who are members, active or superannuated, of the corporation scheme. It will also apply to any former employee of the Great Southern Railways Company who is subsequently transferred from a wages grade to a salaried grade, if such a person would have been entitled to become a member of the corporation scheme if the Great Southern Railways Company had not been dissolved.

The corporation have been advised that legislation in both countries is required to effect the transfer of the assets so that the new scheme may be established, and to indemnify the fund corporation against any claims from the former members of the fund. The corporation have agreed to sponsor in the British Parliament a complementary Bill to which the scheme in the Irish Bill will be scheduled. The Irish Act will not come into effective operation until three months after the passage of the British Act. This will allow ample time for the formalities necessary for the transfer of the assets and members to the new fund. The British Bill should be introduced by November next, and certain formalities —meetings of members of the scheme and so forth—will be necessary between the passing of this Bill and the introduction of the British legislation. This measure is, therefore, urgent, and I propose to ask the House to take several stages together.

As members will recollect, the Minister for Industry and Commerce gave an undertaking during the debate in the Dáil on the Transport Act, 1944, that arrangements would be made to secure for the clerical staff of the Great Southern Railways Company benefits at least as good as those to which they would have been entitled if the company had assented to the 1941 reorganisation.

The scheme in this Bill fulfils that condition. It further provides that certain members can exercise the option of obtaining either the benefits provided in the scheme or, alternatively, the benefits to which they are entitled under existing practice; that is to say, benefits made available to members of non-assenting railway companies, plus the supplementary benefits provided ex gratia by Córas Iompair Eireann.

At an early stage in the negotiations a booklet containing the proposed superannuation scheme was circulated to all the former Great Southern Railways members of the scheme and was approved by an overwhelming majority. At a later stage it became necessary to make certain drafting and other minor amendments, but the scheme as now scheduled to the Bill is unaltered as regards contributions, options and benefits. I am assured that the fund corporation, the clerical workers concerned and the management of Córas Iompair Eireann are satisfied with the terms of the scheme as now settled and that all interests concerned are anxious that the Bill should be enacted as soon as possible.

This Bill reminds me of an interview I once had during a dinner with an American professor of law. It was as far back as 1925 in New York. He asked me to tell him something about the Irish Medical Register which was then being set up. As a representative of the National University, I happened to know something about it. I said to him that the British Attorney-General had some difficulties in connection with it. He said: "The British Attorney-General?""Yes, the British Attorney-General," I replied. "Do you talk to the British Attorney-General," he asked, and I said "I think they do." I explained to him that the Treaty had laid down certain general principles and that it would take possibly more than a generation to disentangle various things which had been for so long interlocked.

This is an example, I think, of where various parties have to be consulted. We have to pass a Bill and the British Parliament will, it is presumed, also pass a Bill in order to disentangle certain things which arise from the close political, financial and other connections between Great Britain and this country.

I agree with the Minister that the Bill is one with which, in fact, the Oireachtas can do nothing. In the first place, the schedule depends on an agreement made by certain parties here, an agreement with which certain people may be dissatisfied, but, even if they are, we have no remedy. As I say, the schedule depends on an agreement between certain parties, and it also depends on an agreement in Great Britain and on the passage of a Bill through the British Parliament. Therefore, I think the Bill, which is one with a scheduled agreement, is one to which we might assent, and all stages of which we might pass.

Question agreed to.

Agreed to take the remaining stages now.

Bill passed through Committee without amendment, reported, received for final consideration and passed.
Ordered: That the Bill be returned to the Dáil without amendment.

Is it hoped that a Bill will be introduced in the British Parliament before they rise for the Summer Recess?

I think it will be introduced in November.

Business suspended at 5.40 p.m. and resumed at 7 p.m.

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