On the motion for the Adjournment Senator Hawkins has given notice to raise a question. I want to remind Senators that 30 minutes are only permitted for a discussion on the motion for the Adjournment and the usual practice is that 10 minutes or more, if possible, should be given to the Minister to reply.
Adjournment Debate—Suspension of P.O. Parcel Service.
It was with much surprise the public saw the announcement by the Department of Posts and Telegraphs that the Department were not prepared to accept parcels for despatch. That may be something that we might accept in the ordinary way under the present conditions. But, as we are approaching Christmas, and having regard to the fact that we had statements during the last general election from various people as to their determination to enforce Christian principles, it is regrettable that such a statement should have been issued by the Department. I have before me the Estimate for this Department, which amounts to £5,480,000. When a particular Department presents an Estimate to the Government and to the representatives of the people, I take it that they present something in the way of a contract, that they contract to do a particular job of work. The job of work which the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs undertook to carry out, owing to the making available to him of this sum of £5,480,000, was to deliver parcels and letters posted by the people. At the present moment there is a refusal on the part of this Department charged with the obligation of delivering the parcels of the people to undertake their obligation.
Yesterday I met a Senator who informed me that he was placed under the obligation of taking up here no less than 12 turkeys to friends of his in the city. If because we voted a certain amount of money to this Department the Minister has a responsibility to discharge to the public, there should be some provision made for it. As a trade unionist, I do not want to be accused of suggesting that any attempt should be made by any section of our people to break what one might call a strike position. But I would say that, under the present composition of the Government, it is very difficult for them to arrive at a decision. At the present time we have in the Government many interests. We have the interests of many Parties, and we have the interests of trade unionists. It would be a good thing for this country if we had only one trade union organisation, directed by Irishmen in the interests of the Irish people. That is not the case.
We are not discussing any trade union organisation on this motion.
We are discussing something that affects the lives of the majority of the people.
We are discussing the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.
We are discussing a decision made by a responsible Minister who, at the same time, is a responsible official of a trade union organisation.
I am not an official, and I have not been one for 20 years.
We are discussing the question of the Department of parcels for despatch. Nothing must be debated on this motion except that particular question.
I submit that it is very good policy that we should confine our discussion to a very limited approach to this subject. Nobody in this House is more anxious to do that than I am. Nobody realises so well the implications and the difficulties arising out of the present position. If we have persons charged with the direction of national affairs, they should have that knowledge which we as members of a trade union organisation must have, and they should have made provision against such an eventuality as has arisen. No man in this State went so far as the Minister did at the last general election to demonstrate to the people in his constituency.
That has nothing to do with the matter we are discussing. The Senator should deal with the matter before the House.
I appreciate that it is not a good thing that we should discuss the past. My object in raising this matter was to elicit from the Minister what steps he was going to take to deal with the difficulties which have arisen. Because of the particular make-up of the present Government, because of the particular function of the Minister——
We are dealing with the function of the Minister at the moment in regard to this particular matter, not the present Government or their policy which has nothing to do with this. The Senator should confine himself to the question that he has raised.
Surely this is a matter in which the Government must be seriously interested. This is a matter for which a Minister must take some responsibility.
The Minister is here to answer for it.
An announcement has been made by the Minister for this particular Department to which the people contribute £5,480,000 per year and surely we must be in a position to ask the Minister what he is going to do and what steps he is prepared to take to meet the demands of the people in this emergency. It was only by the way that I referred to the Minister's particular position. If I should not have done so, then I apologise. If we should not have taken cognisance of the fact that he has been an organiser of a particular trade union——
The Senator must leave that out.
If he cannot afford——
I have told the Senator before that he can only discuss the subject-matter of the motion. The Senator will please resume his seat. He cannot discuss any matter outside the question of which notice has been given—a matter for which the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs has responsibility.
May I put a point of order? We are in a very serious position and if this matter cannot be discussed seriously, a matter affecting the delivery of parcels to our people at this season, then we ought to adjourn the House. If Senator Hawkins wants to raise the matter seriously in an effort to remedy the present position, let us hear him. If he does not wish to do that, let us go home.
That is exactly what I have been trying to get him to do.
Senator Hayes on various occasions has attempted to intervene in the discussions in this House. As a matter of fact he is not the only one who attempts to intervene.
Senator Hayes raised a point of order. He had a perfect right to raise a point of order. I now ask Senator Hawkins to deal with the matter on the motion for the Adjournment and give the Minister an opportunity of replying. The Minister is solely responsible and, so far as the Chair knows, no other Minister is concerned.
The question before the House is quite simple.
The motion is to adjourn the House.
Senator O'Connell proposes that we adjourn.
This is a question on the motion for the Adjournment.
This is an occasion upon which we should not adjourn without getting from the Minister some definite intimation of what he proposes to do in order to relieve the difficulties under which the majority of our people are labouring at the present time.
The Chair is trying to help the Senator to get that intimation from the Minister, but he does not appear to appreciate the fact.
Surely there is a certain responsibility falling upon every member of this House. Certainly I felt that there was a responsibility on my shoulders when I put down this motion. I felt I was within my rights in putting down the motion, and I think I am within my rights in trying to elicit from the Minister what provision he proposes to make to relieve the difficulties under which our people are labouring at the moment. I propose to develop my point in the way in which I think it ought to be developed in an Irish Parliament though some members would appear not to agree with my approach.
You are quite entitled to follow your own line of approach in so far as the Chair will allow you. You are on the right approach now.
I think the Minister will agree that my putting down this motion has provided him with an opportunity of explaining to the people the conditions under which he is trying to administer his Department in the present difficult situation. I know there are difficulties. Anybody who refuses to face those difficulties refuses to face up to his responsibilities. Can the Minister tell us what steps he is prepared to take to overcome the difficulties? When one assumes the responsibility of office in becoming a Minister of State, he also assumes the responsibility of taking very important decisions. I can appreciate that at the present time it is difficult for a man like the Minister because his decision must involve his deciding either for or against a particular trade union organisation.
I will not permit the Senator to pursue that line. The Senator will resume his seat.
The Minister is responsible to the Dáil and only to the Dáil.
I ask Senator Hawkins to resume his seat.
I sit down under protest since I am not allowed to make my case.
There will be no explanation. I ask the Senator to resume his seat. I call on the Minister.
I will only take five minutes. I have just received a telegram from the Clonmel Chamber of Commerce addressed to me in my capacity as Mayor of Clonmel. The telegram says: "Senator Bill Quirke, Mayor of Clonmel, Leinster House, Dublin: Can you do something to ensure the delivery of parcels post for Christmas." It is signed "Fennessy, Clonmel Chamber of Commerce." Now I shall not stray from the beaten track. The situation is a very serious one and I would like to impress upon the Minister the fact that all our people, irrespective of class, creed or political persuasion, are looking forward to getting parcels for Christmas. We can all remember the time when as children we hung up our stockings. It is traditional here, as elsewhere, for people to send parcels to their friends for Christmas. There are some who may be embarrassed when they get parcels; there are others who may be embarrassed because they do not get them. The situation is a serious one. The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs is a member of the Labour Party and he should be in a position to know how serious the situation is. It is just one further example of the Government falling down in a crisis. This crisis should have been foreseen. The Government has fallen down on the job. They will have to take the responsibility for that. They will have to take the rap and that day may not be very far away.
I am very glad to be afforded this opportunity of making a statement. I am very glad, too, that nothing has been said this evening which might aggravate the very serious position that has arisen, a position affecting the whole economy of the country. I wish to explain to Senator Hawkins that I have not been an official of a trade union for the past seven years. I am a trade unionist and I am proud of the fact.
The Minister may forget all that.
With regard to the delivery of parcels, we have no monopoly in that respect. We have no contract with the public to accept deliveries under present circumstances. I have had to make decisions as a Minister, not as a trade unionist, which were against trade union principles. I have done that and accepted my responsibilities as a Minister, forgetting——
Leave that matter out of the discussion, and deal with the position as it exists at the moment.
With regard to parcel post, I should explain that the service is one jointly operated by the Post Office and the railway companies, each having separate functions to fulfil. The railway company is responsible for the conveyance of the parcel mails and for their handling and transfer at stations. The Post Office staffs have, therefore, no responsibility for the handling of parcel post at stations; they merely drive the Post Office vehicles up to the station entrances for the unloading of the mails or drive them away again when the mails have been loaded on to them by the company's staff.
Although a few trains are still running on the various sections of the company's system, the company has intimated to us that because of the strike situation, the limited capacity on these trains and their labour difficulties as regards porterage of the bags at the various stations, it would be completely out of the question to handle parcel mails at railway stations in present circumstances. I am completely satisfied that this position is so and that parcel post could not be conveyed by rail at present.
In order to appreciate the extent to which the strike has affected the Post Office mail services it is necessary to realise that in ordinary circumstances the entire Post Office mail organisation is built around the framework of day and night mail trains on the main Córas Iompair Éireann lines operating at times controlled entirely by the Post Office. These services have been developed down the years by the Post Office and with them the Department operates travelling post offices to secure the maximum advantage in the posting, forwarding and delivery of correspondence. With the railway strike this elaborate set-up has been disrupted overnight and we have had to substitute a country-wide network of road services to carry the letter mails. Over 120 linked-up road services—double the number ever previously provided in similar circumstances —have been put into operation at short notice and by means of these everything possible is being done to keep the letter mail traffic and the delivery of correspondence operating in as normal a fashion as possible. During Christmas week the Post Office letter mail traffic is at least six times what it is in an ordinary week. Despite this huge increase the important letter mail communication service is being maintained satisfactorily under strike conditions.
I have given very full and careful consideration to the possibility of providing substitute road services for the conveyance of parcel post. In considering this it has to be borne in mind that the Post Office would have to provide for the road conveyance of the bulk of the 93 per cent. of its total parcel post traffic which is ordinarily carried by rail and the fivefold Christmas increase in this traffic. The Post Office would also have to undertake the very substantial volume of new traffic which would be automatically diverted into the parcel post because of the virtual cessation of the rail services.
I have examined the position very fully and I am satisfied that the necessary transport could not be provided from Post Office sources. To utilise military vehicles would, I am satisfied, not be warranted considering the repercussions the use of these would undoubtedly cause. Military transport has never been utilised in such circumstances for commercial purposes. I am sure the Senators here are as anxious as I am that nothing should be done which might result in a spread of the strike in other directions. The use of private transport is also fraught with difficulties. Apart altogether, however, from the question of supplying transport, I am satisfied that the avalanche of parcels which would descend on the Post Office at the present time, if the parcel post service was available, would be so very great and congestion would become so acute that, not only would it be impossible to deal with the traffic in a satisfactory manner, but the performance of the many other normal services of the Post Office would be adversely affected.
As I have said, the letter mail services are being provided by road, and I would emphasise that packets, as well as letters, may be sent by them. The public will realise that we are accepting packets by letter mail and delivering them. The main services are being provided by Córas Iompair Éireann whose drivers are members of the Irish Transport and General Workers' Union, and, apart from the question of road transport for parcel post and Post Office congestion in the event of the Post Office endeavouring to set up road services for parcel post, it is pertinent to ask oneself whether the carriage of parcel post by road might not affect the operation of the highly important substitute letter mail road services which are now functioning.
I think I have said enough to indicate that the decision to suspend parcel post to and from places affected by the strike has not been taken without grave and adequate reasons. While I greatly regret the inconvenience that this causes to trade and to the public at the present time, the suspension is inevitable, considering all the factors I have mentioned.
In adjourning the Seanad sine die, I wish all Senators a very happy Christmas.
The Seanad adjourned sine die at 6.45 p.m.