Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 25 Jul 1951

Vol. 39 No. 18

Freshwater Fisheries (Prohibition of Netting) Bill, 1951—Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture (Mr. Bartley)

This short Bill represents in effect an extension of compensation clauses of Section 35 of the Fisheries Act, 1939, which provided for the abolition of netting in fresh water on a compensatory basis. The use of such nets has been prohibited as from 1st January, 1948, but when claims for compensation came to be examined it transpired that many of those who formerly used such nets were not in a position to prove that they were entitled to do so and had otherwise complied with all the requirements of the Act as to compensation. The present Bill may be described as an agreed measure, the purpose of which is to meet by way of ex gratia payments the bona fide claims of persons who suffered loss through the operation of Section 35 of the Act of 1939 who are not entitled to compensation under that Act.

Section 2 of the Bill which provides for the making of ex gratia grants corresponds in its first three sub-sections with the three groups of persons concerned. These are:—

(a) Fishery owners who did not themselves operate nets but who let the fishery for netting by others;

(b) persons who engaged in fishing by means of nets in the seasons immediately preceding the prohibition of netting, but who are unable to prove that they had any legal right to use such nets, e.g., snap net fishermen of the Rivers Suir and Nore, who operated in some cases under seasonal permit and in others by tacit consent of the fishery owner;

(c) the former employees of fresh water fisheries whose terms of employment did not fulfil the requisite conditions. For instance, an employee to be eligible for compensation should have been engaged in fishing during the whole or substantially the whole of each of the three fishing seasons, 1945, 1946 and 1947. The 1945 salmon-fishing season proved to be a poor one and many employees were laid off early in the season. These and other fortuitous circumstances which could not have been foreseen when the scheme for compensation was drawn up, have ruled out a number of genuine claims which it is now proposed to deal with on an ex gratia basis.

The legal formalities to be gone through before compensation awarded under Section 35 can be paid over have proved to be very lengthy, and provision is made under Section 3 for the payment of interest on such compensation and for contribution towards the costs of showing title to the compensation. Provision is also made whereby the compensation money may be paid into court in case of inability to show title to the compensation money within six months after the final determination of the compensation or six months after the passing of the present Bill into law, whichever is the later.

As provision is now proposed to be made for payment of interest on compensation money it is necessary to put a time limit on the making of applications. Both Section 2 and Section 3 require that application for compensation shall be made before the 1st July, 1952.

Professor Hayes

This is the Parliamentary Secretary's first appearance in the House, is it not?

Mr. Bartley

Yes.

Professor Hayes

I should like to say a word of welcome to him, and, further, that he is very fortunate in having an agreed measure. We seem to be always passing agreed measures about our fisheries, though I am not sure that the fisheries are correspondingly improved. This measure, I take it, is a departmental measure, prepared by the last Government, and we are now being asked to pass it. Frankly, it is a subject on which I am very far from being an expert. I gather from the account given of it in the other House, and from the statement we have heard from the Parliamentary Secretary, that this is a Bill to remedy certain defects which have been discovered in previous legislation, and as such, I think, it should get an easy passage.

Mr. Quirke

I also should like to welcome the Parliamentary Secretary on his first visit to the Seanad. I hope that every measure which he brings before the House will be an agreed measure, and that we will not have any controversy about it. With regard to the Bill itself, I welcome it, because its purpose, I understand, is to meet a long-felt need. As far as the freshwater fisheries are concerned, I am particularly pleased to see that the Bill makes provision for payments to people who otherwise could not get them. It would be hard luck on those people who were not able to qualify under the 1939 Act if, through no fault of their own, they were not able to get those payments.

I am glad, as I say, that the Parliamentary Secretary is here on an agreed measure. I wish him all the luck in the world. He will need all the luck he can get because he is undertaking a big job. Due, however, to the environment in which he was brought up, I think he is eminently suitable for the position he occupies to-day in regard to our fisheries. It is a sad state of affairs that it is practically impossible to get a supply of fish in this country. The country is small, but it seems to be quite impossible to be get fish transported from one part of it to the other. The fact is that, while fish is obtainable in certain areas, it is not obtainable in the big centres of population in the quantities in which it ought to be. I believe that, when the Parliamentary Secretary has time to go into the matter, he will find that the principal thing required to make a success of our fishing industry is the provision of cold storage facilities. If these were available, it would be possible to hold the fish over for a certain length of time and provide transport from one point to another when the demand for fish presented itself in any particular area. I believe that the Bill will be welcomed by the fishermen who fish in the Suir, the Nore, and the other rivers which are dealt with under this measure.

Professor Stanford

I should like to say a word in support of what Senator Quirke has said as regards the difficulty there is of getting fish in this island of ours. Speaking on the more general aspects of the Bill, I think it is worth repeating what I have said in this House before, namely, that we do need a separate Ministry of Fisheries. I do not want to suggest for a moment that what I say is any reflection on the working of the Department of Agriculture, though I recall that on the last occasion I said this, it brought upon my sorrowing head a torrent of eloquence from the then Minister for Agriculture. I should like to say again that it was no reflection on his work or on his omnicompetence when I suggest that our fisheries will never be in a flourishing state until we have a separate Ministry. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will reopen the question with the Government of having a completely separate Ministry.

It is a contradiction in terms to try to run the sea and the land in the same office, and I do not really think it can be done. At the same time, we must keep in mind that what is facing the whole world at the moment is a food shortage. The population of the world is going up rapidly, but the supply of food is not going up at the same rate. It is a sin against humanity that the teeming waters of our island are not properly fished, and the fact is that they are not properly fished, and a great deal of the fishing that is being done is being done by foreigners. Only last week 200 yards off the Vico Road, I saw a fishing boat fishing with a trawl net, that is, within the three mile limit. It may be a little out of order, but we do not often have the pleasure of having the representative of Fisheries here. May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary have the Civic Guards not got the duty of reporting such infringements of the fishing laws? It is a scandalous state of affairs that, within 200 yards of the coast, a trawl net can be shot and the water fished and that nobody takes any notice.

An Cathaoirleach

May I draw the Senator's attention to the fact that this is a Freshwater Fisheries Bill?

Professor Stanford

Since this is, in a sense, our last meeting as this House, may I, with all due deference, suggest that, as we have not the opportunity of putting direct questions to the Minister, we might, on the Second Reading of a Bill, be occasionally allowed a certain latitude?

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator has no reason to grumble, I think.

Professor Stanford

That is quite true, but I am very serious about my main point, and I intend to repeat it, if the Cathaoirleach allows me, every time there is a Fisheries Bill before the House—that we do need a separate Ministry for Fisheries and fishing will not be properly looked after until that is achieved. I thank you for your indulgence, Sir.

Mr. Burke

I should like to thank the Parliamentary Secretary for introducing this measure. The present Minister for Social Welfare and the previous Minister for Agriculture in a more emphatic way forecast the introduction of this measure, and both said that they would remove the hardships which particularly affected net fishing men in fresh water rivers. It affects the Suir, the More and the Barrow probably more than any other rivers and many people, particularly in Tipperary, Kilkenny and adjoining counties, will be very pleased to see this measure introduced. I should like to mention that they must make sure to have their claims in before January, 1952. Otherwise, they may not be able to get the compensation provided for. I have read the Bill and I think it covers all contingencies and I am sure that the desires of the Parliamentary Secretary and the two previous Ministers will be fully achieved by it.

Senator Hayes said that he did not know if all agreed measures were the best, but every one of us wants to give compensation to those who are affected by this prohibition. The amount of fish caught in the Suir during the past two years is considerably greater than the amount caught in any year for the past 15 or 20 years and that fact shows the wisdom of the prohibition against net fishing on these rivers. In giving compensation to those who suffer hardship, we are only doing justice and we are really doing justice to the industry in prohibiting the practice in our rivers.

Mr. Bartley

I am afraid that you, Sir, would hardly permit me to reply in any detail to the points raised by some of the speakers. Perhaps they will be satisfied if I say that the matters to which they have referred are receiving the best attention I can give them and that they will continue to receive that attention. It is outside the scope of the measure to deal with anything in the way of sea fisheries. I should like to correct a misapprehension on the part of Senator Burke about the final date for making applications. We extended it by six months so that we might ensure that people who have overlooked the matter will be given a little extra time. I feel, however, that they have had enough time, because this prohibition has been in force since January, 1948, but, by special request in the Dáil, we agreed to extend it by six months and I feel that that should give everybody ample time.

The provision for compensation was contained in the main Act of 1939, but, when it came to be applied, it was found that certain categories of fishermen could not come within the provisions of the section, Section 35. These people are mainly to be found on the Suir, the Nore and the Blackwater and the compensation is being paid on an ex gratia basis, so that I am sorry to have to tell Senator Quirke that the element of interest can hardly be added to ex gratia payments. I do not think there is anything else I have to add, except to express my very sincere thanks to the Senators who have extended such a kindly welcome to me on the occasion of my first visit here.

Question put and agreed to.

Agreed to take remaining stages to-day.

Bill passed through Committee, reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.