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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Jun 1952

Vol. 40 No. 18

Social Welfare (Children's Allowances) Bill, 1952—Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

This, the second Bill which I am putting before the Seanad to-day, implements the announcement made by the Minister for Finance when introducing his Budget. The increases in these allowances, as Senators are aware, are 2/6 per week for the second child, in respect of whom no allowance was payable up to this, and 1/6 per week for all children after the second child, which brings the allowances for all these children up to 4/- per week. We decided to make this a monthly payment and that means that the rates will be 11/- per month for the second child and 17/6 a month for each subsequent child. The cost of these new proposals in a complete year will be around £2,750,000 and that means that the total cost of children's allowances in the coming financial year will be around £5,000,000.

Apart from these rates, the Bill deals with certain changes in administration. Some of these are very detailed. I do not want to go into great detail, but I should like to say a few further words in addition to the explanatory memorandum which has been circulated. The main purpose of the Government in agreeing to make monthly rather than weekly payments was—in line with the note on which I wound up my previous remarks—to encourage thrift.

These allowances appear to us to stand, as it were, apart from social welfare benefits of every kind and we felt that we should encourage as far as possible the mothers or fathers concerned to try to save. We know from inquiries that some parents do, in fact, put that money aside to buy a pair of shoes or clothes for one of the children, or even for the father, and we thought that by making the payment monthly, we might be able to encourage parents even more to use the money in that way. The amounts, as Senators are aware, are fairly small, but if allowed to accumulate for a month, they are more substantial and perhaps more useful. I hope later to be able to encourage parents even further by making it easier for them to invest this type of money in some of the profitable investments like Post Office savings.

The change, in addition to encouraging thrift, will have administrative advantages. I think I mentioned that there are something like 220,000 or 230,000 families which means that that number of cheques went out every week and to reduce that number of transactions to once a month will undoubtedly be a very big saving administratively and will also make the work in post offices very much easier. I want to make it clear, because there seems to be some misunderstanding, that these cheques are payable in advance. They have always been paid in advance by the week and now they will be paid every week for the month of June, and then the full monthly cheque for July will be paid on the first Tuesday of July, and thereafter always on the first Tuesday of the month.

There is also a change in this Bill in regard to the qualifying period. Up to this the thing was rather involved. A person had to qualify during a two-monthly period and payment did not commence until the following period. Then sometimes if they missed over one period it meant they were permanently deprived of a certain amount which they could have received if they had applied in time. Now we are changing the scheme. We are now bringing in a system which is the very same as that which applies to old age pensions or widows' and orphans' pensions. You apply on a certain date and if the application is in order then it is payable from the date of application. In fact, it may be payable from even before that date, as I think it is laid down that if the person applies within three months of the birth of a child the allowance will be payable back to the date of birth. At the other end, payment will cease when the child reaches 16 years of age. That is all that is in the Bill—it increases the benefits and makes these few administrative changes.

I think the Seanad in general welcomes this measure. There is no section of our social security that gives greater benefits or is more appreciated by the people in general. I particularly welcome the new arrangement whereby the payments will be made monthly. I would like to suggest to the Minister that, in sending out the new books, some leaflet might be enclosed to draw the attention of persons to the possibility of investment in the Post Office Savings Bank. I know that a great many already invest in that way, but it could be further encouraged. The change in the qualifying period will also be appreciated by the people in general, as the system up to the present was rather complicated. There is very little we can say about the Bill except to welcome it and give it as speedy a passage as we can.

As the Minister has pointed out, this measure is consequential on the Budget and is a part of the Budget scheme. It would be completely impossible to go ahead with the taxation in the Budget and not pass this Bill. We have had already a long debate to-day on the previous Bill, in which the circumstances were the same. Therefore, points which might arise are rather for the Committee Stage, which might be taken after the other Bill to-morrow.

One point I would ask the Minister is how the first payment can be made on July 2nd, as he said.

July 1st.

How will that be done, in the case of families who have not qualified at the moment, where there are only two children? It would be a very smart piece of work to pay them by July 1st.

Without getting down on my knees, I would like to congratulate the Minister again. There is just one thing which was worrying me until he explained, regarding the change over from weekly to monthly payments. He has said that these allowances are always paid in advance. That obviates a long waiting period, which would be a depressing affair to many. Actually, they will be paid the full month's pension for July on the 1st July.

With regard to Senator Douglas's point, we intend, when the Bill passes, to publish an advertisement to the effect that the second child will benefit and ask for applications. As I said before, where a person makes application within three months from the birth of a child, it will be payable from the date of birth. The same thing will apply from the appointed day. Where a person makes application within three months of the appointed day, it will be paid from the appointed day.

In practice, however, it will not be possible to make these payments on the 1st July? I do not want people to be disappointed.

If they apply in time, it could be done.

This point of mine is probably a Committee point, but I had better raise it now. When the first Children's Allowances Bill was introduced in the Dáil, provision was made for a reduction in the income-tax allowance. I am not quite clear as to whether the allowances under this Bill will be subject to such a deduction also.

I am very pleased to hear the Minister announce that encouragement will be given to parents to have the payments, which at present may be paid into a bank account, put into Savings Certificates or into a National Loan for their children. That is an entirely commendable encouragement to thrift on the part of parents. If the Minister is in a position to say now whether there will be a reduction in the income-tax allowance, I would be glad.

This Bill does not alter the Finance Act in any way. The additional amount will not be subject to an income-tax change, unless the Minister for Finance comes along and makes it so.

Is that meant to be a threat?

The present Finance Bill leaves the allowance as it was.

It will not be altered this year, anyhow. Some other Government may do it next year.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Thursday, 5th June.
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