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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 1 Dec 1954

Vol. 44 No. 5

Destructive Insects and Pests Bill, 1954—Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The powers contained in the Destructive Insects and Pests Acts enable measures to be taken to prevent the introduction and spread in this country of the many plant diseases and pests which are prevalent in other countries, but from which we are in most cases free. Under the Acts powers are given to control the importation of trees, plants, bulbs and similar produce which might be the means of bringing pests and diseases here and also to control the importation of the insects and pests themselves.

Some countries have in recent years attempted to eradicate insects destructive to crops by bringing in other insects to prey on them. It is unnecessary for me to point out that in such cases the primary consideration is to ensure that the predatory insects thus introduced do not become a greater danger to crops or to beneficial native insects than is the pest which they are intended to destroy.

The question of the control of pests and diseases, while of vital importance to each country, is also the common concern of all nations. This country shares in international measures for such control through its membership of the European Plant Protection Organisation and one of the measures which that body has recommended member countries to adopt, if they have not already done so, is to regulate the introduction of biological agents for the control of plant pests.

The immediate cause of the European Plant Protection Organisation's recommendation regarding such control arose from the fact that the authorities in Jugo Slavia proposed to introduce six species of insect from North America in the hope that they would prey on and eradicate the Fall Webworm an insect of which we are thankfully free, but which in Jugo Slavia was causing great destruction to mulberry, fruit, and other trees and bushes. One of the insects proposed to be introduced might, it was considered, also prove a danger to the silkworm. If this were the case great damage could well be done to the silk industries of continental Europe, as control of the migration of the insect could present insuperable problems. The Jugo Slavian authorities were conscious of this and very properly notified the European Plant Protection Organisation of their proposals, as a result of which the recommendation mentioned was made.

It may be thought that happenings in Jugo Slavia are so remote as not to be any concern to this country and, indeed, there is no immediate prospect of any deliberate introduction of predatory insects into this country for the purpose of biological control. It is none the less a sensible precaution to have powers to control such introductions. Another reason why such control is necessary is that countries to which we export produce such as potatoes, may require certificates to the effect that predatory insects do not exist in this country and that we have taken adequate steps to see that they are not introduced. It is for these reasons that this short Bill contains provision to regulate the introduction of agents for the biological control of plant pests.

The earlier Destructive Insects and Pests Acts have been in operation for a very considerable time and as a consequence various powers are prescribed to be exercised under them by bodies, such as boards of guardians, etc., which have long ceased to exist. These responsibilities were transferred to my Department, which is their proper location by the 1929 Act. That Act did not, however, formally relieve the local bodies of similar responsibilities and it is to eliminate this duality of function that the further sections of this Bill are designed. When the conflicting and obsolete provision of the earlier Act are removed simplicity of administration should result and the introduction of consolidating legislation to replace the various Acts relating to destructive insects and pests, which it is proposed to initiate at a later date, should be facilitated.

The idea behind this Bill is an excellent one. We have very complicated international measures to prevent the introduction of disease as far as human beings are concerned and it is very important that the same scientific methods at home and abroad should be employed in regard to the introduction of disease, microbes, pests or whatever the case might be, in regard to plants. There is one point I should like to raise on this. While it is essential that we should have this legislation, I wonder, in fact, how practical it is when it comes to the implementation of it? It is all very well to say that the House gives power to the Government to prevent the introduction of diseases, microbes or pests but in actual practice how is such power going to prevent the introduction of these diseases and pests? I am sorry to say the Bill does not apply to animals.

Take the recent example in regard to the question of myxomatosis. I do not know whether legislation similar to this exists which would give the Minister power to prevent the introduction of myxomatosis. Let us assume he had that power, how is the Minister or the officers responsible for the implementation of this Bill going to find out how an individual will import micro-organisms or identify the persons or means used to introduce them? It is an extraordinary thing that one section of the community, to enhance its profits, could be responsible for the introduction of pests, microbes or disease. We had a recent experience in connection with animals where it was done. What steps are going to be taken to ensure that the very desirable powers envisaged in this Bill can, in fact, be implemented?

I should like to welcome this measure. I would again say that the introduction of a Bill and the putting of that Bill into an Act is not to my mind the best way of dealing with a position of this kind. I would suggest that this is one of the matters in regard to which we should make a very serious attempt to get down to our young people in our national schools. In that regard, I would urge the Minister, if he has any responsibility in that direction, to seriously consider using his influence in having much more attention given to such matters as rural science and nature as a whole, particularly in our rural schools. We are now introducing a Bill and making provision for many matters. To the ordinary farmer they are something in which they are not very much interested. To my mind, the best means by which we could interest people in activities of this kind is, first of all, in the national schools.

I would agree with Senator ffrench-O'Carroll when he made reference to the virus of myxomatosis. I think the Minister should have exercised his authority in regard to that matter. It is one which has very serious consequences because while the rabbit——

I would point out to the Senator that there is nothing dealing with myxomatosis in this Bill. That is a separate matter.

I am prepared to bow to the decision of the Chair but I would say that the Bill before us is a Bill dealing with the introduction of certain diseases—the introduction of something that did not receive the approval of the Minister or his Department.

I think we are dealing with the question of pests.

We may differ very much as to whether or not it was welcome or essential, but to my mind there is one very essential principle upon which we cannot differ and that is that the Minister and his Department did not give approval for the introduction of this particular virus into the country. Therefore, the people who introduced it and who have engaged in this particular activity, did so illegally, as it were, and the Department of Agriculture has taken no steps against such persons. One might say it is a very small matter. It only relates to the rabbit pest.

May I put it to the Chair that the matter is so large that it should not be introduced on the Second Stage of this Bill? Senator ffrench-O'Carroll merely suggested there might be another Bill which would deal with animals. I think Senator Hawkins, in discussing the administration of the Department, went outside the Second Stage of the Bill and I suspect Senator Hawkins knows that.

I do not wish at this stage to enlarge on the matter except to say that I think it is one which at some future stage should engage the consideration of this House.

The Senator can put down a motion if he likes.

Regarding the question of putting down a motion, we have not got the responsibility of the Minister for Agriculture and the Department in this particular regard.

The Senator cannot discuss this question on this Bill.

The Bill asks us to give authority to the Minister to make certain regulations, in order to eliminate certain pests from this country.

Plant pests.

On a point of order. Would the House not be prepared to consider that there is a very important parallel here, which it is relevant to discuss in relation to the issue?

No, the Chair would not.

The purpose of eliminating the rabbit pest was in order to ensure that our plant population should be propagated, so, if you ask me to go on those lines, I would be prepared to say that, in order that our plant population might propagate, we should take the necessary steps to eliminate the rabbit pest, and justify the introduction of myxomatosis.

I think the Senator is chasing the wrong hare.

However, that is not my purpose.

Put down a motion and then we will discuss it.

I was only anxious to draw the Minister's attention to the inconsistency of the introduction of this Bill by him and by his Department. Seeing that the Chair is not prepared to allow me to relate my remarks to this, I would say that we welcome this Bill, and if necessary, we should be prepared to give to the Department all the powers that they think sufficient in regard to matters of this kind. At some further date, I hope we will have an opportunity of discussing this very important aspect to which I have referred.

I think the House would agree that it is very desirable to give the Minister the power which he seeks in this Bill. We all realise that it might be possible to propagate diseases of a very dangerous nature introduced from other countries. Senator Hawkins was quite right in drawing the parallel of the difficulty, which there is in a Government Department seeking to exclude micro-organisms or virus. This Bill will give the Minister the legal powers to prevent those diseases from being introduced. That is another question and I think many Senators would have very grave doubts because there are so many ways by which those insects, micro-organisms and disease germs of any kind could be introduced. I think it would be a physical impossibility for the Department to exclude every possibility. There is even I suppose during war conditions the danger of bad diseases being spread through Western Europe. This is a possibility that has to be faced and what the Department could do about that matter is a question upon which I would not like to dwell. I think at the same time it is desirable that the Department should have this power and I think we should even go a little further and in the matter of plant diseases we should have a little more intensive research. It is one thing to try to exclude those diseases but we have got to face the possibility of failure to exclude them and we have got to face the possibility of their appearance here within this State. Then the question arises how to deal with them and I think it is on that matter that the Department should do a good deal of research. We all realise that the farming community has suffered very great losses by reason of plant diseases which affect practically every type of plant—cereals perhaps in particular, but also root crops of all kinds.

The past year has been one of exceptional severity in that respect, and the complete absence of sunshine has had the effect of promoting the propagation of various plant diseases. I think that it is not only necessary to exclude the possibility of new diseases being introduced but also to take steps to deal with such diseases if they are introduced and with diseases which at present operate within the State. It is saddening to find that there are a number of very devastating diseases affecting cereals and root crops for which there is practically no remedy except to refrain from growing the particular crops until the land has become immune or partly immune. It would be desirable to set up some kind of research into this whole matter with a view to safeguarding crops of all kinds from diseases. It would be admitted that good farming practice tends to a certain extent to curb disease. I am not going to dwell on that particular aspect. I would merely suggest that in addition to the powers which the Minister seeks in this Bill, he should give the House an assurance that his Department will get to work on measures of research with a view to dealing with existing diseases and with any that may be introduced.

It is only a waste of time trying to raise points on matters not relevant to the Bill before us. I think we should give the Minister the Bill immediately rather than be wasting time on it.

I want to tell the Seanad that, in addition to the things it actually does, this Bill is submitted as an amendment of the Destructive Insects and Pests Code which Senators will observe in Section 1 comprises a long series of statutes from 1877 down to 1929. It is my intention to submit to the Oireachtas in the early future a consolidating Bill which will bring into one statute all existing powers. This merely completes the code.

Senator Cogan has directed the attention of the Seanad to the desirability of promoting research into matters relating to plant disease and parasites of all kinds. I agree with Senator Cogan that that is very necessary. That is one of the purposes which I hope the Institute of Agriculture and Veterinary Science will be fully equipped to deal with when we get it established which we hope to do in the early future.

Senator ffrench-O'Carroll asked me how I hoped effectively to exclude insects and pests when I was not able to exclude myxomatosis. The purpose of this legislation is not only to exclude that—we will do it if we are able to do it—but it is also to control, if exclusion fails. One of the fortunate distinctions that exists between insects and pests and myxomatosis is that myxomatosis has the deplorable habit of running all over the country, whereas insects and pests we may reasonably hope to confine. I would remind the Senator that when the foot and mouth disease breaks out we do control it. Because of its nature, it can be segregated more quickly and effective measures taken to circumscribe its incidence and stamp it out.

The difficulty with myxomatosis, and this has been the experience all over Europe and indeed in Australia and New Zealand, is that whether you tried or did not try to stamp it out, did not seem to have very much effect, the reason being that the disease is communicable not only by contagion between rabbits but by the transfer of the disease from rabbit to rabbit by flying insects. Every effort was made in France, Belgium and Holland to restrict the spread of the disease and they signally failed. When the disease arrived in Great Britain all the resources of the British Ministry of Agriculture were marshalled to try and confine it and stamp it out in the south eastern counties of England. The efforts made signally failed. The fencing off of hundreds of square miles had no effect because it became manifest that the disease was being carried over the fences by flying insects, and, consequently, there was no degree of control.

Did they not make it illegal?

It is illegal here. The person who brought a diseased rabbit into this country, if a diseased rabbit was brought in, acted in breach of the law. If Senators wish to set down a motion to query why I did not more rigorously prosecute my search for the law breaker, it will be my duty to present myself in the Seanad to discuss it, but I take it that this is not the occasion to discuss the efforts that were appropriate to the outbreak of myxomatosis in this country. Senators, however, know my view on that because I stated it very plainly in Dáil Éireann when I was questioned as to whether it was right or wrong to bring that disease into the country.

In this Bill we are taking power to try and stop the entrance of insects and pests at the point of entry. I also have the power to deal with a crop if a destructive insect appears in it. Take, for example, the Colorado Beetle which is a genuine menace and about which we are constantly vigilant. I will have the power, if the Seanad passes this Bill of identifying a crop of potatoes in which the Colorado Beetle appears, of destroying it and of compensating the farmer. If I had not this Bill I might be in the position that I might have to try and destroy each individual beetle, a thing it would be manifestly impossible to do, but if I have the power of surrounding the area and of destroying all the potato crops in the area and of suitably compensating the farmers, then I think I can tell the House that, in regard to any pest which we know of as constituting a possible danger, we believe we will be able to deal with it.

I cannot deny that the contingency to which Senator Cogan has referred is always possible, that some pest might be introduced into the country which our best efforts would not eliminate and we would have to make up our minds to try and live with him, as countries on the continent of Europe have had to do. France has to carry on a running warfare with the Colorado Beetle and cannot get it out. Our aim is to try and prevent pests from coming in here. I am happy to say that we have had a considerable measure of success so far, and for that we may thank Providence and the vigilance we ourselves have exercised. But if one does come in we want to have the power from Oireachtas Éireann to take effective new steps forthwith and to put it out again. These, we will use to the best of our ability, and if our best efforts fail, then I suppose we shall have to try and live as best we can with him. I am sure the Seanad would like to give to the Minister whatever powers he requires, first of all to try and stop the pest coming in and if it comes in to put it out as soon as we possibly can. That is the purpose of this Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take the remaining stages of the Bill?

If the Seanad would agree to give me the remaining stages now I should be very grateful.

We are prepared to give the Minister the remaining stages now.

Agreed.

Bill passed through Committee without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.
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