Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 1 Dec 1954

Vol. 44 No. 5

Alginate Industries (Ireland) Limited, (Acquisition of Shares) Bill, 1954—Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The purpose of this Bill is to enable the Minister for Lands to participate in a proposed increase of capital in Alginate Industries (Ireland) Limited.

Before I deal with the details of the proposal, a short review of the origin and history of the company may be of interest to the House.

In 1942 the Gaeltacht Services Division of my Department succeeded in finding a purchaser in Scotland who was prepared to take large quantities of sea-rods. Export of sea-rods in air-dried state, as supplied by the gatherers along the West Coast, commenced in the following year 1943. In 1947, a private company was formed for the purpose of establishing a factory at Kilkerrin, Connemara, which would kiln-dry the sea-rods, grind them into meal and export the material in the meal form.

In 1949, the Minister for Lands under an Act passed in that year was given authority to acquire 5,100 shares of £1 each in this company. Since then, considerable improvements have been carried out in the factory, which has been operating successfully and has provided steady and remunerative employment in one of the poorest districts in the Gaeltacht.

A report on the working of the company has been submitted each year for the information of both Houses of the Oireachtas, and the report on last year's operations shows that direct and indirect wages paid at the factory amounted to over £8,000. In addition, locally-produced turf to the value of over £4,000 was consumed and then, of course, the sea-rods themselves, bought as they are in the poorest areas along the western seaboard, are a satisfying source of supplementary income where it is badly needed.

It is now proposed to expand the company's activities, first by improving its existing facilities for the drying and milling of sea-rods; secondly, by providing facilities for the purchase and preparation of carrageen for various markets; and thirdly by providing facilities for the production of seaweed meal for cattle food. Additional capital will be required and this Bill seeks to authorise the expenditure of £37,900 on the purchase of shares in addition to the £5,100 already expended, making a total of £43,000, as set out in Section 2 of the Bill.

With regard to the first of the objectives I have mentioned, the company believes that more efficient and economic production can be achieved by effecting some changes in plant and lay-out at the factory in Kilkerrin. As I have already mentioned, considerable improvements have been made from time to time, including the installation of a Mona jet furnace and E.S.B. power supply, and I am satisfied that the improved lay-out and new plant now proposed will further strengthen the position of the company as a supplier of rod-meal.

With regard to the proposal that the company should engage in the carrageen industry it will be necessary to give a brief review of the recent history of this industry. The quantity of carrageen harvested has been falling steadily in the last few years. In 1940, 1941 and 1942, this country exported an average quantity of 600 tons of carrageen per annum. In 1952, 1953 and 1954 the average quantity exported is estimated at less than 250 tons, and the tendency from year to year is downwards.

As the collection of carrageen moss can be a very useful means of augmenting the income of those living along the west coast, this decline of the industry is a matter of concern, especially so since there is a ready market in America, Great Britain and the Continent, provided that the purchasers can be assured of consistently high quality and regularity of supply. The lack of consistency in these matters has brought about a certain instability in the industry, which is reflected in the decline in the quantity harvested and exported.

My Department has had the position under close examination, and visits were made to France and the United States to study the organisation and development of the industry in those countries. Efforts were made to have exporters of carrageen co-operate in an association to safeguard the quality of moss for export but I regret to say that the response received was poor. The Institute for Industrial Research and Standards was requested to develop a machine for the mechanical cleaning and grading of carrageen with a view to securing a general improvement in standard. This machine was demonstrated early this year to various firms and persons interested in the industry but, so far as I am aware, no one has yet proposed to install it.

Carrageen moss is a raw material of great value, and its collection depends on the maintenance of a tradition for the work along the western coast. It is therefore necessary that an effort be made to set a standard which will gain for Irish moss a high reputation in world markets and arrest the present decline in interest among the gatherers by bringing about conditions of stability. With this object in view it is proposed that Alginate Industries (Ireland) Limited, should equip themselves to handle and market carrageen moss to the best advantage and I am satisfied that this step is both necessary and desirable. I am hopeful that as a result of the company's efforts there will be a revival of interest among gatherers and that the industry will be put on the right road to development.

Finally, the company also proposes to put itself in a position to produce seaweed meal for cattle food. In the neighbourhood of its factory at Kilkerrin, Connemara, the company can draw from the richest beds of ascophyllum or bladder weed in the world, and this would undoubtedly be a welcome addition in income to the people of the area. The company has in fact in the last two years produced limited quantities of this meal by extemporary modifications to their sea-rod plant, and the entire production was sold abroad. The company is satisfied that there is a reasonable market on the Continent and elsewhere, and believes that with the installation of a suitable plant efficient and economic production could be achieved.

To summarise, the company is seeking additional capital to enable it— first, to improve the operation of the existing sea-rod meal business; secondly, to equip itself for the handling of carrageen moss, and thirdly, to provide facilities for the production of sea weed meal for cattle food. All three items relate to the development and use of native raw materials in parts of our country where natural resources are poor. The difficulties in the way of improving the economic situation of the people who have to make a livelihood in these areas are so great that it is all the more important that whatever resources are available should be developed to the full. The Bill now before the House seeks to authorise me to provide additional capital for the company for the purposes set out. Having regard to the excellent work of the company to date and the desirability of the further developments now proposed, I have no hesitation in recommending this Bill to the House.

Maidir leis an mBille seo, dúirt an tAire go raibh sé sasta le stiúrú an chomhluchta seo. Ba mhaith liom a rá go bhfuil mé ar aon-aigne leis i dtaobh na ngnóthaí go léir atá ar bun sa tír seo faoin Stát. Is dóigh liom gur chóir rachmas an chomhluchta do mhéadú. Sé an t-aon locht amháin a bheadh agam ar an scéal ná nach bhfuil sé dhá leathnú. Ní hionann sin is a rá gur chóir don Aire airgead do chaitheamh ar an dtionscal gan údar. Má abraím gur mhaith liom a thuilleadh rachmais a bheith á iarraidh le haghaidh an ghnótha, sé an rud is mó atá ar intinn agam go mba mhaith liom go mbeadh forás níos leithne air ná mar atá go dtí seo.

Is dóigh liom gur tionscal é seo a bhfuil réim mhór éadálach i ndán dó. Maidir leis na slata mara féin, is cinnte go bhfuil an oiread déanta ag na stiúrthóirí agus is féidir leo a dhéanamh go dtí seo sa gcaoi a bhfuil an margadh.

Maidir le cairrigín, is maith liom go bhfuil an comhlucht ar tí dul isteach ar an ngné sin den ghnó. Duine ar bith a bhfuil spéis aige i gcúrsaí tionscail ní fhéadfadh sé bheith gan iontas a bheith air faoin spéis atá na hoifigigh a chur i gcúrsaí cairrigín. Is iontach an méid ábhair a bhfuil cairrigín agus torthaí cairrigín á n-iarraidh ina gcóir. Tá cairrigín ag teastáil na laethanta seo le haghaidh chuile shórt ó ola ghruaige go dtí an clúdach le haghaidh ispíní. Tá, mar shompla, aicme chreidimh áirithe ann agus d'fheilfeadh go mór dóibh go mbeadh torthaí cairrigín le fáil ina gcóir siadsan. Mar adeirim, is maith liom go bhfuil an rachmas á iarraidh ach is maith liom thar aon rud eile, a thabhairt faoi deara gur mian leis an gcomhlucht dul isteach ar bhrainse eile táirgeachta agus go leanfaidh siad den rud a bhí ar siúl acu go dtí seo, oiread agus is féidir leo a dhéanamh leis an ngnó, é a leathnú agus é a chur chun chinn.

Maidir le grádáil chairrigín, ní fhaca mé an gléas atá curtha ar fáil ag an Roinn ina chóir ach chuala mé an-chuid molta ar an ngléas. Ní thaitníonn an rud adeir an tAire liom, nach bhfuil éileamh ar an ngléas, nó ar an meaisín, i gcóir na hoibre sin. A lán de na daoine a cheannaíonn cairrigín nó a bhíos ag plé leis, rachaidh sé rite leo a leithéid de mheaisín a cheannach as a ngustal féin. B'fhéidir gurb shin é an fáth nach bhfuil éileamh air an oiread agus ba mhian leis an Aire. B'fhéidir go mb'fhiú dó féachaint chuige go mbeadh airgead le fáil ar théarmaí réasúnta, nó fiú go bhféadfaí deontas do chur ar fáil i gcásanna áirithe leis an meaisínre do cheannach. B'fhéidir ansin go mbeadh éileamh air agus go gcuirfí feabhas ar an tionscail dá bharr sin.

Fhaid agus a chuimhním, ba mhaith liom tagairt a dhéanamh do ghné áirithe den cheist seo. Mar is léir, ón méid atá ráite agam, táim go láidir i bhfábhar an chomhluchta i gCill Chiaráin do neartú agus do leathnú. Ag an am chéanna is eol dom go bhfuil a leithéidí céanna de thionscail ar bun taobh amuigh de Chill Chiaráin. Tá tionscail feamainne ar bun i gCill Ruis i gContae an Chláir agus is dóigh liom go bhfuil roint imní ar mhuintir Chill Ruis go gcuirfidh an beartas seo as dóibh. Do bheadh spéis agam i dtionscal ar bith a bheadh ar bun cheana agus níor mhaith liom go ndéanfaí aon docar dó. Ach do bheadh spéis speisialta agam sa ghnó i gCill Ruis mar gheall air seo: go bhfuil breac-Ghaeltacht taobh thiar de Chill Ruis, thiar ar chósta Chontae an Chláir ar an taobh ó dheas agus go bhfuil seans ann go gcaillfeadh Gaeilgeoirí a slí bheatha mar gheall ar imeachtaí an chomhluchta i gCill Chiaráin. Níor mhaith liom go neartófaí an Ghaeilge in áit amháin agus í a mhilleadh in áiteacha eile. Más féidir an dá rud do thúirt linn, sin é atá ag teastáil uaim.

Tá mé ag caint mar gheall ar an dtionscal i gCill Ruis gan aon eolas ró-bheacht agam air. Casadh duine orm a mheabhraigh dom gur cheap sé go raibh baol ann go ndéanfadh forbairt monarchan Chill Chiaráin dochar don tionscal i gCill Ruis. Ba mbaith liom go ndéanfadh an tAire machtnamh air sin agus go bhféachfadh sé chuige nach scriosfaí an tionscal i gCill Ruis de bharr imeachtaí tionscail Chill Chiaráin. D'fhéadfaí a rá nach é an tionscal céanna é atá ar bun san dá áit. Tá muintir Chill Ruis, chomh fada agus a thuigim, ad iarraidh an gnó seo a leathnú chomh mór agus is féidir leo. An bhféadfaí comhar nó "co-operative" a bhunú i slí éigin idir Chill Chiaráin agus Cill Ruis i dtreo is go rachadh an dá cheann chun cinn agus go neartofaí an teanga sna ceantair sin?

Thairis sin, is maith liom an tionscal seo a bheith ann agus is maith liom chomh maith an méid atá déanta aige le blianta. Beidh mé ar aon intinn leis an Aire in aon iarracht a déanfar chun an obair seo a leathnú i dtreo is nach mbeidh aon ghá orainn an bun-ábhar a chur as an tír agus go ndéanfar freastal ar an éileamh mór sin atá ag teacht chun cinn ó gach saghas gnótha san mBreatain Mhóir, an Mhór-Roinn agus na Stáit Aontaithe féin. Is maith liom an Bille bheith ann agus guím gach rath air.

I welcome this Bill. I am only sorry that the amount of money which the Minister seeks is not ten times as much. This is the type of native ministry which, I think, any Government of this country should foster. I was rather sorry to hear the Minister say in the course of his address to us that the export market in carrageen had fallen. For a number of years in our restaurant here it was a favourite food. I notice that for some time past it has disappeared from our menus. Those who are better qualified than I to talk about the value and the uses of carrageen have praised it loudly. I hope that some effort will be made by the Minister to see that carrageen as a food will be brought to the notice of the Irish people.

Some years ago I know the Department had a special campaign in regard to carrageen as a food. As a result, there was a general demand for it for eating purposes. I must compliment the people who produced the carrageen at that time. It was very nicely packeted. It was very well presented and it was very attractive in the form in which it was offered to the public. It is regrettable that there has been a falling off. I would have thought that an industry such as this with the raw materials at our very doors would not only have been developed but extended where possible.

I am interested in what the Minister says about sea-rods. I know something about that work. The recovery of sea-rods is very hard and difficult work. I want to draw the Minister's attention to another matter. It is probably a bit premature to mention it yet. Research work has gone on in America for the conversion of sea-rods into textile fibres. I presume it will be possible in the course of time for our Irish ladies to wear Irish nylon stockings made from sea-rod fibres. I hope that the Minister in conjunction with those other developments in regard to sea-rods will have his Department investigate the conversion of sea-rods into textile fibres. I understand it is possible with only slight chemical changes to do something of that nature. Anything that could be done in that connection would obviate our having to import synthetic nylons from abroad as we have to do at the moment.

I hope the Minister will go all out for the recovery of the export market we have lost in these goods. Some years ago London importers spoke to me very highly in regard to the carrageen. It is a native product and it is easily recoverable from the sea in comparison with sea-rods. The Department should seek to recover as much as possible of the export market we have lost. It does one good to see a Bill of this kind coming to the House as it deals with a native Irish industry which gives employment to workers in the Gaeltacht. Every member of the House will be glad to see the Minister getting his money. We hope that the next time he comes he will not be asking the House to base his carrageen developments on £10,000 but will ask for many more thousands or even millions of pounds.

It is only natural that I should also welcome this Bill. If there is any question I have to ask it is in regard to the limit that the Bill puts on the possibility of developing one of our great national resources. In 1949, we first introduced a Bill making provision for the acquisition of shares in this particular company up to £43,000. The Bill now before us provides that that sum be increased by £5,100. While it is not always good to relate the advantage to the amount spent on any particular project, to my mind the amount the Minister is now providing will not be sufficient to do the things that his Department—and I am sure the Minister himself—would be anxious to do and that we on this side of the House, particularly those of us coming from those particular areas, would be very anxious that he would do. The commodity that it is proposed to produce in a more up-to-date manner is one, as I have already said, of our natural resources. Sea-rods have become a very useful raw material for the production of many commodities. While the amount of money which this House is asked to provide, is only going to ensure continuance of the production, as it has been undertaken up to the present, I would urge the Minister to go much further, and not be content with making provision for its collection.

Having regard to the employment given, to the amount of natural resources, turf production, etc., that accrue from the development of this industry, I think the Minister should go a step further, and not be content with collecting these rods, and exporting them for conversion into one or other of many essential commodities, for which there is a world-wide market. When I mentioned this to people who are interested in the development of this industry, they replied that the market here is very limited for the commodities produced from sea-rods.

While it is true we are making provision for the collection and the conversion of these rods into a material for export to Scotland, there is an industry there where full benefit is taken of the collection and the moneys we expend here. It is there the raw material is being converted into the many articles that have a very wide field for development. Many of these would be important from our point of view as a dollar earning export commodity, and it is for that reason I would urge the Minister to examine thoroughly, and be very sympathetic towards any suggestions which might be made by the officials of his Department, to fully utilise and fully develop the manufacture of this raw material into a commodity for export.

The Bill also provides, apart from its provision in regard to the further development of sea-rods, and the utilisation of machinery, for the development of carrageen moss, which has a very wide field of uses, including the manufacture of sweets, hair oil and sausage casing. I think we should, in the same way as we would develop our sea-rods industry, do everything possible to have the complete manufacturing process carried out here.

In the Gaeltacht areas, in general, is a very big problem, which the Minister is charged with solving to some extent. The solving of this problem was at one time thought possible by dividing up the land of the country, and the Minister should realise that the solving of that problem in the Gaeltacht areas, is not possible by that method. Therefore, the only method open to us is the development of whatever natural resources we have, their full utilisation, and the giving of employment to our young people as far as it is possible to do so. This is a question that not only interests the people of Kilkerrin, but also interests the people of an area, where as Senator Ó Buachalla has said, there has been, for quite a number of years, the process of development of this industry.

While it is natural that we in Galway should, as far as it would be possible, be concerned about the further development, we agree that the potentialities of this particular raw material are so great that, if properly investigated, and sympathetically approached by the Minister—I am sure I am speaking on behalf of all sides of the House—it would be money well spent, and would provide industries for our people in the districts which have often been referred to as the "developed areas". It is because of that I would urge on the Minister to examine very thoroughly and sympathetically, the possibilities of the complete manufacture of these raw materials, rather than exporting them to some other country, no matter how friendly it might be, which would derive the benefits our people here should have.

Like every other Senator I welcome this Bill. It gives everyone great pleasure to see the Minister bringing in a measure to improve and extend the industry, which has proved reasonably successful in a part of Ireland which, unfortunately, has very much less industry than other parts, a part of the country where emigration, unemployment, and a low standard of living, have unfortunately become to be expected by the people there, as permanent features in their lives.

I think it is very desirable that industries of this nature should be given an opportunity to expand and develop. I feel, in the long run, that if anything is to be done to make any real improvement in the conditions of these parts of Ireland, only State industries, financed entirely by the State, or heavily subsidised, can make any real contribution towards solving the problem.

The Undeveloped Areas Act which really was brought in to see if it would be possible to get a system of private enterprise for Connemara, and for the undeveloped parts of Ireland, has been moderately successful, but from an over-all point of view its contribution to the problem that exists there is small.

I therefore welcome this Bill, and I am only sorry that the Minister has not given to the House much more money in order to set out on very much bigger production. I think it is a very great pity indeed that the harvesting of carrageen was allowed to fall so seriously as the Minister indicated in his speech. He said that between 1940 and 1942 production was 600 tons per annum and by 1952 to 1954 it had fallen to 250 tons.

I think if we are serious in our desire to improve conditions in Ireland, native industries and native resources, however small, should not be neglected in that fashion. The Minister stated in his speech that a sum of £8,000 had been spent on wages during the year as a result of the existing alginate industry and £4,000 on the turf used by the factory. We can easily appreciate how a sum of £12,000 would make a very considerable difference to the people affected and how it would affect their standard of living in what is a thinly populated area.

I should like to know from the Minister the number of persons at present employed by the industry, and what the potential is likely to be. I hope that in the future the Minister will come back to us with many more projects of this nature. It is regrettable, as other Senators have pointed out, that this industry is only a subsidiary of the one in England. I think it is a great pity that we cannot finish the product here ourselves and export it. It is quite obvious that before we reach the position where we can do the full job here ourselves we must improve considerably the standard of our product. We must aim at an increased output before we can seek a very much bigger market. I welcome the Bill and hope to see the Minister coming before the House again with many more proposals of this kind.

We all welcome the Bill. I should like to know from the Minister whether any survey has been made by those competent to do so as to the potential of the market, or markets, for this commodity. I feel that, if it were well advertised, there should be a greatly increased market for it. I should, however, like to have some assurance from the Minister that some kind of a survey has been made in regard to potential markets.

I should like to endorse what the other Senators have said on this Bill. We all welcome it. I feel, as one who has lived most of his life on the sea coast, that the Minister has been placed in a difficulty as regards the amount of capital provided. With that limited amount of money he can only develop one area on the sea coast. If, however, the industry has such prospects as we are led to believe it has, then in my opinion more money should be provided to enable the Minister to investigate the possibilities of extending it. We know that all along our western seaboard from Donegal to Cork, our people depend on various types of seaweed, for manurial purposes, for the land. That goes on all the year round. Seaweed is provided every month of the year for a different type of crop. I have seen the sea-rods, which are grown on the bottom of the sea, collected. I have seen them cut off the bottom of the sea in West Cork and West Kerry and harvested directly on the spot. I think, in view of the fact that sea-rods are available all along the west coast, that some further efforts should be made to develop this very important industry all along the coast, and not confine it merely to a little bit of Galway and, I understand, of Clare. The only fault that I have to find with the Bill is that enough money is not being provided for the development of this very important industry.

I also welcome the Bill. Its object is the expansion of this industry and, therefore, any effort that is made to bring help to the people in the western areas will be greatly welcomed by them. I do not profess to know a great deal about the industry because I live inland. During the last week or ten days, however, a complaint was made to me by people who do know all about it. As regards the money which they get from a collection of sea-rods and carrageen the people say that the labour of gathering the sea-rods is very heavy. It is so heavy that the work is calculated to discourage the younger generation from undertaking it at all. These people point out that the manual toil associated with the agricultural industry has now been cut by almost 90 per cent., due to the employment of machines. Machines are now available for almost all kinds of agricultural work. The people I speak of would like if some effort were made to help them by easing the heavy manual labour which is associated with the collection of sea-rods.

Those who make that complaint are well qualified to speak on the subject. They know that these sea-rods have to be wrung from the sea; they have to be cut and carried by the people on their backs to the beach, sometimes up high cliffs, and over very rocky terrain. This is something that we should try to get rid of as soon as possible. It may, perhaps, be that the people are satisfied with the money which they are getting for the sea-rods, and that the generation which is growing up may be glad to see this factory extended at Kilkerrin with a possibility of extending it still further. At the same time, some effort should be made to ease the burdens on the people who are engaged in this work. It involves heavy dragging labour. It is the lot of some people to have to toil in that manner. If that is so, then it is the duty of the Government and of the Minister—I am sure both would be delighted to try and do something in this direction—to ease the burden and help those people who engage in the work of collecting sea-rods and carrageen. If the Minister and the Government can do that, they will certainly be making the nature of the work more attractive to those who engage in this activity. At any rate, every effort should be made to try and ease the heavy burden which work of this kind involves at the moment.

I am sure there must be a ready market for the animal food produced from seaweed, and other types of weed processed in this factory. If this animal food can be used for live stock, then, I imagine there should be a good demand for it. In my opinion, there should be a good market in this country for seaweed products if the price is competitive. If the price is not competitive, there will be no market. I do not know very much about it, but I make that suggestion to the Minister, that if this raw material is processed properly into animal food at a competitive price there should be a good market for it. There should, however, be no racketeering and no protection for any industry that would take money out of the pockets of the producers who have to buy it to feed to their live stock.

The pity is that we cannot complete the processing of this material here at home and that we cannot, in Kilkerrin or elsewhere, expand the factory to complete the job that begins on the seashore. I have been talking to the Minister about this, and I understand from him that there are some forms of processing which cannot be done here. There is some firm, I understand, in England which has certain rights and has to get certain concessions. They are the only people, I gather, who can handle the project and finish it completely. If that is so, we cannot do anything about it, but at least we could always be experimenting and always trying. The officers of his Department and of the Department of Agriculture might see what they could do to bring about a final processing of these sea-rods. We know they are very bulky when they are dried out, very bulky bundles. I heard a person once describe them, on seeing a lorry-load: "Where are all the sticks of rhubarb coming from and haven't they grown very long?" It is a pity to see this bulky commodity leaving this country to be processed elsewhere. I blame no one for it, as we have not altogether the technique or the skill to finish it off. Finally, if we can make any progress in that way, I am sure everyone would like it. I know the Minister himself would be just as anxious as anyone else.

With regard to the supply of the rods that come up from the sea, carrageen and these other weeds that are to be processed for meal and other things, there is a never-failing supply and I hope the demand will also be never failing. In conclusion, I would like the Minister to consult with his officials and try to make available some method which would make it easier for those people to go out and do the heavy work, because if they get that little extra I think they will be more satisfied than anybody else.

May I add one word of praise to the Minister for this Bill? The Minister may not be aware of another potential industry from perhaps other specimens of seaweeds that come to us in the harvest of the sea —I mean the seaweeds that are now being experimented with for the manufacture of cosmetics. I am sure the Minister knows nothing about cosmetics. I can tell him in all sincerity that it is a very great business, with great potentialities. I know that in recent weeks two Americans, who are experimenting and who are trying to get us to experiment, have inquired from Córas Tráchtála about what is being done, what is likely to be done and what they would be encouraged to do in the development of seaweeds for the manufacture of cosmetics.

With that development and the development that Senator O'Donnell suggested—the possibility of making textiles and nylon materials for our stockings—we could go a long way to solving the Gaeltacht problem. I would sincerely ask the Minister to do a little research on cosmetics in regard to their manufacture from seaweed. No doubt his Department will be able to give him information. I am led to believe it would lead to big business. I thank the Minister and I hope there will be further research on it.

I, too, welcome the Bill. Arising out of the remarks of other Senators, I would like to suggest one possibility as the industry develops and that is the possibility of a stronger link between the industry itself and the chemical research departments of the various universities. That is one of the ways in which the necessary processes for developing these industries will lie. Endowment of research in the universities by industrial firms is now part of the normal processes of university life and I would particularly ask the Minister to direct his attention to this point.

First, I wish to thank the Senators for the reception they have given the Bill. It is very pleasing to find unanimity on introducing a Bill like this. I think Senator Hawkins is under a misapprehension about the amount of money that we are asking in this Bill. If I give again a review of the situation, it might be helpful to all Senators. In 1949, under a previous Act, a company was set up with £10,000 of share capital. The Minister for Lands held £5,100 of that and the sister company in England, Alginate Industries, England, held £4,900. I am seeking in this Bill to increase the share capital to £50,000. In reality, I am asking the House under this Bill for permission to purchase 37,900 more shares, to put £37,900 more into the company; £2,100 will be put in by the English company; and that, along with the £10,000, makes up the £50,000 share capital which the company will have if and when this Bill is passed. I am especially pleased with the growth of the industry from a modest little factory which at first was a purely private one established in 1947. It was taken over by Gaeltacht Services in 1949 with £10,000 share capital. This Bill proposes to increase the share capital to £50,000 for the purpose of expanding the plant and also for the purpose of expanding the existing sea-rod meal business which has been carried on and which has been a very generous boon to the gatherers along the coast and also to the workmen employed in it. I would like Senators to understand that this is not alone a development of the existing business but a branching out along other lines that were hitherto handled by private industry and that rose or fell according to the degree of interest put into them. I am referring to carrageen moss and to the ordinary seaweed or ascophyllum—we know it more familiarly as the bladder weed that is along our coast on the rocks when the tide goes out.

Carrageen is a difficult moss to gather, as it grows on the shore—at such a distance from the shore, though, that it is only uncovered at very low tides, that is, it is only uncovered once a fortnight by the tide and then only for a short period of four to six hours. For that reason, do not expect any spectacular results from the harvest of carrageen, because if the gatherers have only a short period of the year and can only get it for four to six hours every fortnight, when it is uncovered by the tide, a great deal cannot be gathered.

I think it was Senator ffrench-O'Carroll who asked about the drop in the sale of it. I think the Senator was forming the impression that the Gaeltacht Services division of the Department was engaged in the gathering and selling of carrageen up to this. That is not so. We were not engaged in it and all the gathering and selling was done by purely private individuals. There again it seemed to have a very uneasy life. I hope I will not weary the House by giving the figures. In 1936 the quantity that was gathered and sold was 216 tons; in 1937 the figure was 396 tons; in 1938 it was 288 tons; in 1939 it was 325 tons; in 1940 it was 606 tons; in 1941 it was 559; in 1942 it was 625; in 1943 it was 532; in 1944 it was 411; in 1945 it was 516; in 1946 it was 411; in 1947 it was 403; in 1948 it was 325; in 1949 it was 353; in 1950 it was 289; in 1951 it was 410; in 1952 it was 255; in 1953 it was 251; and in 1954 it was 202 tons. I have formed my own opinion about the cause of all this; I think it was due to the war years and that then it fell off steeply again. As Senator O'Donnell said, it is a valuable source of food and it is used for animal purposes.

There is one branch of this particular industry that ought to be taken up by us and put on its feet. Senator Ó Buachalla seems to think that the cost of the machine for cleaning carrageen and putting it into a marketable condition in the shop window was beyond the reach of the ordinary individual. I do not think it is so costly; I have not exact figures, but the impression I had is that it would not be any dearer than a middle-sized tractor and that would not be beyond the reach of those who are going into it. We are not going into competition with private business—that is the last thing I would like to see.

I would like to see people purchase these machines, bringing in the carrageen, drying it and presenting it in the most attractive and cleanest possible condition. Senator Ó Buachalla also mentioned grants for the purchase of such machines. While I am not certain, I think grants for them would come under the heading of machines for which the Department of Agriculture makes loans available. After all, it would take a clever man to separate the seaweed industry from agriculture and if they are giving loans for the purchase of agricultural machinery, I think by a little stretch they could be given for these machines also.

As far as the sea-rod industry is concerned, sea-rods grow in 18 feet of water. They are torn from their moorings by storms, principally in the wintertime, and cast up in heaps on the shore by the storms and waves; but very often they are mixed up with rocks and with other kinds of seaweed and rubbish of all kinds, with the result that the gatherers, as Senator Commons said, have a pretty tough time going out to search for these sea-rods, which they tie in bundles and carry up on their backs to higher ground where they can be placed on drying walls. They must be air dried. They have to carry out tons of sea water, as I think it is no exaggeration to say that for every ton of dried sea-rods there would be something like seven tons brought out. It is in the drying process that they lose a vast amount of the moisture.

The question of making grants available for improving difficult pieces of coast is one that I will look into. It is quite possible that something could be done under the Special Employment Schemes Office of the Board of Works. The Gaeltacht Services Division of the Department of Lands makes grants available for drying walls, but not for roads or the improvement of the shore so that the rods can be carried up in greater comfort.

A third type of seaweed is the ascophyllum or bladder weed that we see most plentifully. For the past two years a little factory at Kilkerrin, Connemara, has been experimenting with the machinery there in the drying and grinding of some of that particular type of seaweed into meal for cattle food. It is sold very readily on the Continent, particularly in France. I am sure the House will be very pleased to hear that our seaweed meal as cattle food got very high praise on the Continent. That type of animal food is extensively used on the Continent and the Irish product was heralded as being the very best. For that reason, we need not be uneasy about markets. We are pretty sure of a full market for all the carrageen we can sell in the United States and for all the cattle food we can sell on the Continent from the ascophyllum weed. Prices may rise or fall and we will have to cut our coat according to the measure. There is no likely change at present and it is rising now, so with good spirits and our heads up we should feel fairly certain of doing well.

A few Senators mentioned that they would like to see the final processing of the sea-rods carried out in this country. If I give some of the inside history of that, it may be of interest to Senators. Some time about 1941 or 1942, an English doctor discovered a means of producing a material, a chemical alginic acid from sea-rod meal. It was known for quite a long time that it could be produced in small quantities in a laboratory, but it could not be produced economically in large quantities for commercial use. He discovered how to produce it economically on a big scale and he has the secret; we have not and therein lies the difference. He has the secret of producing it on this scale. There is a great market for this sea-rod meal. We have not the secret; if we had, we could go into it. It may interest the House to know that our firm and the corresponding English firm are the only two in the world that seem to have the secret of producing this very valuable acid from sea-rod meal in the whole world. We certainly would be delighted to go into it if we could, no matter what Government was in power. Every possible ton of sea-rods that can be brought economically into Kilkerrin means a lot. Something like £10,000 was paid to the gatherers last year, £8,000 also was given out in wages in the factory at Kilkerrin and £4,000 was paid for local turf for the drying of the rods and other seaweeds. That is not bad work since 1949 and it is a very useful development.

Senator Ó Buachalla feared that the development of this industry in Connemara might interfere with the private industry at Kilrush. Senators may rest assured that we are only going to gather seaweed from areas not touched already. We would not interfere with private industry. Personally, I would not like to see any Government Department going into competition with private initiative and I think it would be wrong that that should happen. Senators may set their minds at rest on that score. There is more than ample seaweed, for the present at least, within a short distance of the factory at Kilkerrin to keep them going full time. It would not be desirable to put private business out of existence. If there are any questions I have left unanswered, I will be only too glad to give information to Senators on them.

Would the Minister tell us what the employment position is?

I overlooked that question. At present about 28 are employed in the factory. With the development under this Bill we hope to employ between 20 and 30 more— 20 at least and 30 at the most.

Would the Minister say if there is any of this bladder weed meal on sale in this country?

No, there is not.

Mr. O'Sullivan

Why not? We are just as interested.

I may tell the Senator that we are only too willing to sell it to farmers and millers if they want it.

How can there be a demand when they never heard anything about it?

It should be advertised.

I am as interested as anyone in producing a balanced ration for farm animals, but I never heard of this or saw it on the market. There is another matter. The Minister has not said if there was any intention of trying to develop this gathering of sea-rods in other Gaeltacht areas—West Kerry, West Donegal or West Cork.

The seaweed meal produced for cattle foods has only been produced inside the last two years, more or less as an experiment, to see how it will go. It was not advertised because it was just an experiment and the firm did not feel they were justified in advertising something that this House and the other House might not allow them to develop.

Has the Department of Agriculture experimented?

The Department of Agriculture knows all about it. There was not a sufficient quantity. It would be a departure from the usual line of business of the company established to develop this sea-rod industry. What has been done already is only an experimental quantity and that is being sold on the Continent. They could reasonably ask the question: "Why ask us to put capital into this? This is a matter of your own goodwill to do it." Senator Hawkins seems to think that the English company has a controlling interest. No, the Minister for Lands has the full control in this case. He has watched that. He has full and absolute control. Senator Hawkins seems to think that the English company has a hold on us some way or other. It is the other way about.

The Minister cannot get the process all the same.

They have the process for producing this highly valuable chemical from the raw material we supply. If we do not supply the raw material, then there will not be any chemical.

Is it possible for us to produce that chemical at all?

Many countries have tried but have not yet discovered the secret. It is a secret which this man seems to have come upon as a result of his own intelligence. It is just his good luck. He is buying from us. He is more dependent on us than we on him. We supply the raw material. He is the only purchaser. Each is interdependent on the other.

Professor Stanford rose.

Is this a point of order?

This is the Committee Stage and I think I am in order. This is an important matter as Senator McHugh said. The reason why the English company has in a sense got us in their grip is because they have by means of advanced research arrived at a process that we have not arrived at. If our universities had the technical equipment to do that research, I think we could discover that process. I think it is worth emphasising that. I think it is a matter of general policy. Unless our research keeps up with English standards of research, we will not be able to have absolute independence in the scientific sphere at all.

The point is this. Will our Irish people concerned be free to go into the manufacture of this chemical if they themselves can find the formula?

Definitely.

That is the important thing.

We have got to face the fact that we are putting up the vast majority of the shares. We have the controlling interest in the capital, yet we are denied the actual process which makes the whole project worthwhile but it is the English concern who hold the monopoly.

I would like to emphasise in a slightly different way the points made by Senators Stanford and McHugh. It would be a good principle for many Irish industries to set aside some of their capital for the granting of research scholarships to the universities. That principle is observed widely in Britain where the industries concerned give research scholarships and grants to the universities for post-graduate research. They need not necessarily be specific to the industry. I should like to stress the fact that some of the money raised might be granted in that way with long term beneficial results.

I suggest that the points raised by Senators Stanford and Skeffington might be dealt with very beneficially for the country by having the matter put down as a motion and discussed in this House. The whole question of industrial research is very important. I think it might be more fruitful to deal with the matter in the form of a motion.

Before the Minister replies, there is another angle to this question. The Minister states that the purpose of this Bill is to make capital available for the further development of the carrageen moss and seaweed industry in general and that Alginate, London, are not interested in this particular field. If that is so, I wonder why we have this Bill before us in the form in which it is. The Bill provides that moneys be made available to purchase additional shares. Alginate, London, according to the Minister's own statement, are prepared to make a further investment of something in the nature of £2,500.

Against our?

£37,000.

Knowing something about this particular company—they are very shrewd, hard-headed Scotch business people—it strikes me as rather peculiar that out of their generosity they should come to the point of making a decision to invest £2,100 in the development of an off-shoot of an industry in which they have no particular interest and from which they would receive no remuneration of any kind.

If the Minister is correct in his presentation of the case to us, this is not the Bill we should have before us but an entirely different Bill. The Bill before us should be one to develop the seaweed and carrageen moss industry rather than the particular Bill we have.

I cannot agree with Senator Hawkins in his last suggestion. Why should we set up two industries side by side or elsewhere? I do not think it would make sense. The little industry that has been functioning since 1949 was dealing with one aspect of the matter. We propose to branch out into two other unexplored areas, carrageen and ascophyllum. Why should we not? Senator Hawkins asked why is the English company so generous as to put in £2,000 capital as against our £37,900. The reason is that the branch of the industry in which they are interested and already hold certain shares is also being expanded as well as the two new developments. That is the reason. Why should they not? Having gone almost 49 per cent. into the establishment of a former factory, why should we provide all the capital for the expansion of all the industry? We are asking them to put up a reasonable proportion of the extra capital for the expansion of the plant in which they are interested. We are putting up all the capital in the two branches in which they are not interested but in which we are vitally interested.

I would appeal to the Minister to have the matter raised by Senator Stanford gone into immediately. It is a terrible thing that we are so ignorant in regard to producing this chemical after all our research work. The matter is important not only to the industry we are dealing with but to industry as a whole.

It is quite possible that many of our farmers and perhaps our millers may not know it is there, but, after the passage of this Bill, with all the publicity it has got in this and in the other House, by the time we start production, they will be very sleepy-headed if they do not know about it.

I asked the Minister if he had any intention of extending this Bill to areas other than Galway.

The Senator can raise that question on Committee Stage, if he wishes.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining stages now.
Top
Share