Can the Minister say whether or not this industry is to be a Galway industry entirely?
Alginate Industries (Ireland) Limited (Acquisition of Shares) Bill, 1954—Committee and Final Stages.
Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That Section 2 stand part of the Bill."
The answer to the Senator is that it is not. We would like to see as many branches of the industry established as possible, but I should point out to the House that there is not an unlimited quantity of seaweeds available. The sea-rods grow in about 18 feet of water. They grow where the floor of the ocean slopes down to about 18 feet. Consequently, if the slope is steep, the belt of sea-rods is very narrow and, if it is a gradual slope, it is a wide belt. In any case, it is not everywhere they grow. The same applies to carrageen moss, but not in the case of ascophyllum which grows on rocks everywhere the tide goes up and down that we know of.
The Senator is interested in establishing it in other areas and we will do so, provided the yield of seaweed is there. We should be only too glad to dot the whole western and southern coastline from Malin Head to Waterford with little factories, provided there is a sufficient quantity of the right type of seaweed there. It will, however, depend on that.
Why not collect it in these areas and send it to the Galway factory?
We are doing that.
I had in mind that it might be possible to appoint collectors along the coast who would dry it and transport it to the factory in Kilkerrin as an experiment, at first.
Might I point out that at present we are buying sea-rods from the very northern tip of Donegal right down to the Shannon and there is nothing to stop us from buying them further south? We would be delighted to do so. With the expansion of the plant which this Bill will enable us to bring about, we will be able to handle a vastly greater quantity than at present. I will look into the point.
Dr. ffrench-O'Carroll rose.
This debate must be conducted by some other method than that of question and answer.
With regard to the capital formation, I understood from the Minister's statement that up to this the position was the usual position, that the Irish side of it had something more than 50 per cent. and the English side less. What is going to be the formation of capital now? It would appear that more is being put up on this side than on the other. Why should we put up more than the English who are getting the cream of the process?
I did not intend that a chain of factories should be set up all around the coast. I merely intended that an experiment should be made as to buying these sea-rods from the Shannon to Mizen Head and from Mizen Head to Wexford. I have taken part in the collecting of these rods at low water when they can be cut with an instrument called a crann cam in about six feet of water and they were fairly plentiful.
With regard to the bladder weed, it is the most plentiful weed I see on the southern and western seaboard. It is collected very cheaply and easily, and there should be no trouble at all in developing this cattle food business, if the people were made sufficiently acquainted with it. I trust that samples will be made available throughout the country after the next production period.
I was very interested in the Minister's announcement that he would be glad to see an extension of this industry throughout the Gaeltacht areas, but there is one question in that regard which I should like to have clarified. The Minister, in outlining the setting up of this factory, gave us to understand that it was begun as a private concern by some people from outside. That statement is not quite correct. The originators of this industry were a Galway firm from whom the people outside secured a controlling interest. The Bill provides that we make available a certain sum, a sum of £10,000, and that the other people increase their share capital by £2,000. The important question is: what controlling influence in the further development of this industry has Alginate Industries, London?
I suggest that the Minister is not quite correct in saying that it would be possible to expand this industry all over the seaboard areas without the consent of the London company. He also gave us to understand that there were difficulties in relation to the development of the final process due to the fact that these people, as the Minister put it, have the secret. Therefore, we have come to the point that Alginate Industries, London, have a controlling influence over the development of the company because of their being the originators, having purchased the rights of the original founders of the industry. By reason of that and by reason of controlling the final processing of the raw material, they have a very active control in the further development of this industry. If that is the case, I should like to put it to the Minister that some steps should be taken to purchase these people's rights out entirely and give the development of this industry over to Gaeltacht Industries.
Senator ffrench-O'Carroll asked a very pertinent question as to why it is that, in the former case, we had £5,100 of the capital and the English company £4,900. We had just barely the 51 per cent. and that was for the establishment of a factory in which they were vitally interested. We were their lifeline—if we did not supply their raw material, they could fold up. It is not so now. We are supplying the greater portion, £37,900, of the £40,000 proposed increase in the share capital, for this reason, that the English company will have nothing whatever to do with the output of either carrageen or ascophyllum weed. That is the answer. In other words, this is all our concern—they are not interested. They are interested in one thing only. They are producing a highly valuable chemical from the raw material we supply and for that reason they had a large interest in the first factory. They are not interested in this one because what we do with carrageen does not affect them and what we do with the ascophyllum does not affect them and they could very reasonably say to us: "Why ask us to put capital into this?"
I agree with Senator Stanford's suggestion and also Senator McHugh's. That is a question I intend to go into fully, because as Senator Hawkins stated, in this particular branch of industry, research, in my opinion, plays a most important part, particularly in a young and growing country like this, which is trying to get on its feet. There is only one way to do it, and that is by just knowing as much, and more, than the other fellow.
It is very important to know, when we are spending a certain amount of money on a project like this, what the future possibilities will be as regards provision of employment. I think I understood the Minister to say that at present it gives employment to 20.
Twenty-five to 28.
I think we need to distinguish between those actually engaged in the ordinary work of gathering the seaweed, and those who are technically employed. How many are technically employed?
From 25 to 28 on the technical side. I cannot say the number of gatherers, but it would go into hundreds, maybe to 1,000. The increase in employment we anticipate will be not less than 20, and it may go up to 30 under this Bill.
Question put and agreed to.
Section 3 agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendments, received for final consideration, and ordered to be returned to the Dáil.