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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 30 Nov 1955

Vol. 45 No. 9

Social Welfare (Temporary Provisions) Bill, 1955—Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The Social Welfare (Temporary Provisions) Bill, 1955, which is now before the Seanad will provide an extra week's payment of pension or benefit in the week before Christmas to all recipients of old age and blind pensions, widows' non-contributory pensions and long-term disability benefit.

As was stated by the Tánaiste in the Dáil on 26th October last, the Government are anxious to give some help towards meeting the increase in the cost of tea to the classes covered by this Bill. The people concerned are the most deserving in the community of help. Their income leaves little or no margin for meeting the higher cost of what to them is a necessary of life. It is proposed, accordingly, to make them an additional payment in one sum of an amount approximately equal to the increase in price of tea for one year.

Those who will benefit number 219,000. Of these, 208,000 or 95 per cent. will get the maximum weekly rate of pension or benefit, as the case may be. In the case of disability benefit, this will amount to 36/-, where the recipient is a married man.

It is not proposed to double the pension or benefit where persons are resident outside the State, and only one extra payment will be made to a person, such as a blind pensioner, who is also in receipt of long-term disability benefit.

It is hoped to make all the payments in the week prior to Christmas. The time has been short in which to make the necessary arrangements, which include the passing into law of this Bill. It has accordingly been necessary to ask the Seanad to deal specially with this Bill to-day and to pass it through all stages, if possible.

I particularly welcome the principle enshrined in this Bill. I think it is a principle we can all accept, that is, that we should give some consideration to those people in receipt of State pensions, particularly at the season of Christmas. It has been an accepted practice over quite a number of years by very many employers—I could safely say by the majority of employers—to give a double payment at Christmas to their employees. It has also been the practice for all charitable organisations to do likewise. Therefore, as I said at the outset, I agree with the principle.

I am in total disagreement on four grounds with the reasons put forward by the Minister for the introduction of these proposals. In the first place, the proposals before us to-day are made as a suggestion to compensate persons in receipt of old age pensions, blind pensions and non-contributory widows' and orphans' pensions for the increased price of tea. I think that is not a very justifiable reason and is one to which we should not give our approval.

Last January, the Government, as it were, took a gamble. They gambled on maintaining the then existing price of tea and made an arrangement with Tea Importers, Limited, that the banks would provide accommodation to enable the quantity of tea required to be sold at the then existing prices. When the announcement was made in January last, the Labour Party, in particular, claimed great credit for having maintained the price of tea.

Later on, an invitation was issued. I think it is a good thing that we should make as many contacts as we possibly can, particularly when these contacts are with the heads of foreign countries. As I say, an invitation was issued to the Premier of Ceylon who was a guest of the Taoiseach. He made a statement which was utilised to bolster up the gamble that was being made. That gamble turned out to involve the country in no less a sum than £1,500,000.

We now have, as a result of questions and answers given in Dáil Éireann, the information that the maintenance of the tea price over the 12 months results in consumers having to pay no less than 3d. per lb., not on the original price of tea, but on the price paid to the bankers, as interest on the moneys advanced. The Minister for Industry and Commerce made the announcement in Dáil Éireann that it was proposed to allow tea to find its own level and that tea prices would be increased by 2/- per lb. Members of this House—there are a few members in the House who are engaged in this particular business— will agree with me that no wholesaler or retailer of tea at the present time can sell the tea. The sum of 2/- was just one of these things that was mentioned in order to minimise the position. Tea has been increased all round by no less sum than 2/6 per lb.

The Minister made another very enlightening remark in the introductory statement, to the effect that the consumption of tea in general was something about 2 oz. per head. Of course, that related to the time when tea was rationed. He suggested that he proposed to bring in a Bill in order to compensate the old age pensioners, the blind pensioners and those other sections of the community, and that is the Bill we have now before us.

If we examine the Bill, we find it does not even do exactly what the Minister promised to do on that occasion. It makes provision to give a number of those people in receipt of various allowances an additional allowance on 23rd December, but we still have the very obnoxious means test we heard so much about in recent years. A person in receipt of 6/- or 9/- per week old age pension will not receive the compensation of 6d. per week which the Minister promised in order to compensate him for the increase in the price of tea.

This whole matter poses another very pertinent question. How did the Government come to the decision, and how did the members of the Labour Party in the Government accept it as a reasonable one, that of all the commodities which have increased in price during the past 12 months, only one commodity should be provided for in the case of those in receipt of the various pensions to which this Bill applies? Mind you, it does not provide for a very large section of the people who are in receipt of allowances from the State. We will get to that later on. The first question is how did the Government come to the decision that it was only in relation to this one particular item that we must compensate the old age pensioner? Was it not an acknowledgment of the bungling and the gambling that took place in this whole business?

It was a gamble, no doubt. It might have turned out otherwise. It might have been that the price of tea in the general market might have been reduced, and, as a result of that reduction, tea consumers in this country would have been put into the position that they would be compelled to accept tea of an inferior quality over a number of years so that the Minister's loss in this particular gamble might be made good to Tea Importers, Limited. No matter what way we take it, whether you are on the swings or the roundabouts, you cannot lose. That was the gamble taken, and that is the gamble for which we are asked to pass this Bill, so as first to pacify the members of the Labour Party and then to suggest to those people in receipt of old age pensions and others that we are conferring on them a great benefit.

There is no benefit being conferred on these people. If we want to compensate them for the increase in the cost of living that affects them just as every other section of the community, we should live up to our responsibilities. I do not want to delay the passing of this Bill for one moment, but let us take just one meal. Let us take the old age pensioner's breakfast. I am sure that, as a member of the Labour Party and as Minister, the Minister will agree with me that the old age pensioner who is capable of eating a rasher in the morning is entitled to that. What do we find? Over the past 12 months, that one item in the old age pensioner's breakfast costs him no less than 8d. or 1/- a lb. more. He may like a sausage of any variety. We find that those sausages are going to cost him from 6d. to 8d. a lb. more. He may like jam or marmalade, or he may be one of those people who would like just a plate of porridge in the morning. That plate of porridge will cost him 2d. each morning more than it did 12 months ago.

What about the egg?

That is another question, which will be dealt with later on. The pensioner may be one of those people whose health does not allow them to take any of these things, but he may like a biscuit or some light confectionery. The little biscuit the pensioner may have with his cup of tea at 12 o'clock, or in the morning, is now 8d. a lb. more than this time 12 months ago. Confectionery is just the same. In that particular line, the increase has been brought about, not because of any outside influence, not because of something that was beyond Government control, but definitely by Government action in removing the subsidy from the flour that was used in the baking of those biscuits and confectionery.

Why, if we are going to do justice to these people, do we not take all these things into consideration? If the old age pensioner lives in Cabra or elsewhere, he has to take a bus to the local post office to collect this increase in his pension, but for that he has to pay an extra charge. Is there provision made in this Bill for that? I can safely say that no member of this House can contradict me when I state that, in respect of any one of the items I have mentioned, the provision we are making here now would not be sufficient to cover it, whether it is biscuits, confectionery, sausages, rashers, tea or anything else put before those people at just one meal.

I have another very serious objection to these proposals, that they do not cater for quite a number of people who are relying, as it were, on State allowances. I should like to have from the Minister the reasons why this Bill does not apply to persons in receipt of national health insurance. Surely the House will agree that the head of the family who is laid off sick, undergoing medical treatment, should be aided just as generously as the persons to whose aid we are coming, who, because of their means and because they do not qualify under existing regulations for the full pension, are being assisted by the halfpenny or three halfpence we are providing for in this Bill. Surely a man who is unemployed through no fault of his own and drawing unemployment insurance is entitled to some compensation, if we must compensate for the bungling and gambling that has gone on over the past 12 months in this particular field. There are persons in receipt of disability allowances, and those disability allowances are being given after the most careful consideration and gruelling inquiries into the circumstances. Surely those persons are entitled to some consideration, if we are in the mood to give consideration of that kind to anybody. I should like to have the Minister's views on these points.

There is another question. The decision to maintain the price of tea at its then level was taken last January.

On a point of order, might I at this stage point out that, while, as a member of the Government, I may have responsibility for the increase in the price of tea, I have none as Minister here in the Seanad?

There is collective responsibility.

I have said that, Senator.

The interjection of the Minister is, of course, very appropriate. It is one that I would expect, and it is just one of those other indications as to how the wind is blowing. After all, as I have already stated, when the decision was made to maintain the price, we all put out our chests, particularly those of us who were in the Labour Party. We all accepted that we were going to get the credit for this very magnificent job that was being done; but now that the piper has to be paid, we do not like it. I have every sympathy with the Minister when he states in this House: "I am not responsible. I am prepared to wash my hands of this——"

On a point of order, I have not said what Senator Hawkins alleges I said. I stated distinctly that, as a member of the Government, I was responsible.

That is not a point of order.

I am trying to point out that I am not here as Minister for Social Welfare, talking about the price of tea or how it occurred. I am here in connection with a Bill which deals with how compensation is to be given to certain people.

Is the price of tea not surely related to this Bill? It is a Bill arising out of the price of tea.

There is nothing about tea in the Bill.

Nothing about tea in the Bill, but there is going to be a whole lot about tea before we are finished with the Bill.

The Minister for Industry and Commerce stated very emphatically in Dáil Éireann that he was going to introduce, or have introduced, a measure to compensate those people who are to be compensated under this particular Bill because of the increased price of tea. You cannot disassociate the price of tea from this Bill, because the Minister himself in introducing the Bill, gave as his reason that it was an attempt, or it was proposed, to compensate those people in receipt of old age pensions, blind pensions, and non-contributory widows' and orphans' pensions, for the increased price of tea, and no other reason. I am trying to put it to the House that if we want to be fair to these people, we should make provision for compensating them at least for every increase that has resulted from Government action.

Which Government? Would that apply to the subsidies removed by the Fianna Fáil Government?

If the Senator wants to take me down the avenue and talk about subsidies, I am prepared to take the open road on it and do so, but that is not the proposal before us.

Is that not the whole question—how open is the road?

That is not the proposal before us. The proposal before us is to make compensation to the persons in receipt of old age pensions, blind pensions, and widows' and orphans' non-contributory pensions because of the increased price of tea resulting from what happened from 1st January, 1955, to 1st November, 1955, and we are here to-day called together specially to consider this Bill. Notwithstanding the fact that the announcement made about maintaining the price of tea was to the effect that the price would be maintained to 1st September, no action was taken to fulfil that. I have no doubt at all, and am prepared to admit even here in this House, that the Minister for Industry and Commerce must have fought very hard in the Cabinet to maintain the credit that the Labour Party took for the maintenance of the price. He must have fought very hard indeed to ensure that tea would be maintained at that price, but he lost the fight, so some carrot had to be held out and the carrot held out for the Labour support in the Dáil and in this House is this Bill, under which we are in some small way compensating the weaker section of our people because of the increased price of tea.

I would be in thorough agreement if the Minister came before us and said honestly: "We are responsible for the increased price of tea. Therefore, we are prepared to compensate as far as the nation can out of our national finances the weaker sections of our community." I suggest to the Minister and the House that the same approach should be taken in relation to bacon because of the bungling of both the Minister for Industry and Commerce and the Minister for Agriculture. We have prices controlled, prices established one day, the retailer controlled one day, the wholesaler left a free market, the curer left a free market, and so on. We have also the position in relation to the withdrawal of the subsidy on flour for the confectionery and biscuit manufacturers.

I disagree with this Bill for another reason. It is a very bad precedent to establish in this Parliament, that any Government can bring forward a Bill of this kind to pay a supplementary allowance to any one section of our people. I am not saying that precedent is being utilised at the moment, although the whole fit-up has some relation to a particular event that is taking place very far removed from this House at the present time. I leave it to the intelligence of the members to figure out for themselves what I am referring to now. You could have a precedent initiated now whereby a Government, on the eve of a general election or on the eve of a decision on any important question put to the people, would use what is done here now as a justification for what they might do then. That is why I say this a very bad precedent.

It is a very difficult job to make provision for a supplementary payment of this kind. What provision has been made up to the present? How is the allowance to be paid? Will it entail the issuing of a new book or a new document to each pensioner? The post office authorities who are charged with the payment of old age pensions must be authorised; how will that authorisation be given to them? That is a very important aspect of the question.

I agree with the principle, but I do not agree with the purpose for which the Bill has been introduced. I do not agree with the provision in it because it is not wide enough. I am sure that the Minister and members of the Labour Party here will agree with me that provision should be made also for those who have paid contributions to national health insurance and unemployment insurance and who are now undergoing medical treatment, or who are unemployed. There must also be considered those in receipt of disability pensions and I.R.A. pensions. To all of this vast number of people, the State has an obligation, just as it has to the small group we are catering for to-day. Unless the Parliamentary Secretary gives some reason for excluding those persons, I must take steps to have the matter rectified on Committee Stage.

Unlike the last speaker, I welcome the Bill and congratulate the Minister on its introduction. According to Senator Hawkins, no benefit is conferred by it on those whom it is intended to benefit. He will find it difficult to convince those who will draw, a few days before Christmas, double the amount they usually get in old age pensions. He takes the Minister and the Government to task because they have concentrated on tea alone. Of course, it is pretty evident to everyone that they have done so. Tea is not a native product. I agree with Senator Hawkins that the old age pensioner would like a rasher for breakfast, that he could enjoy a sirloin for lunch and that he could do with cutlets for tea. How would he bring that about? Does he wish the Government to subsidise the production of pigs, cattle and sheep; and, if so, how is it to be done? There is only one way of bringing down the cost of commodities, essential articles of food produced in this country, and that is by lowering the price paid to those who produce them. I do not think any speaker on the other side would stand for that.

In so far as this double payment at Christmas is concerned, it is not the only action of the present Government to benefit the most deserving section of the community. Last June—within the memory of everyone—the equivalent of £1,250,000 was voted to increase old age pensions. The £250,000 that will be voted as a result of this Bill, brings the contribution of the present Government to that section of the community up to £1,500,000. That is not a bad gesture from a Government that is accused of being indifferent to the wants of the most deserving section of the people. I find that there are 165,923 old age pensioners. Of that number, over 158,000 will draw the full amount, 24/6, twice over; over 2,000 will draw 19/- and an increase of 19/-; over 2,000 more will draw an increase of 14/-; and the balance will draw an increase of 9/-, that is, double the amount at present being paid. I am sure this Bill will be welcomed by every section of the people as an excellent act of the present Government.

When I listen to arguments of the Opposition who try to make very little of this gesture, my mind goes back to advice given to me by an old parliamentarian some time ago: "If ever you want to gauge the standard of improvement in any measure introduced by an inter-Party Government, all you have to do is read the speeches of the Opposition and the more vehement they are in denouncing it, the more sure you can be that it is a very effective measure."

We can go back to the start and we find that is so. It is a rather drastic standard to judge Opposition speeches by, but it is the only standard we can go by in the Opposition approach to this measure. I congratulate the Minister on introducing the Bill. He has conferred a deserved benefit on the most deserving section of the community and he will be thanked for it in the way that such people can thank him whenever the opportunity comes.

I want to underline a point made by Senator Hawkins. While this Bill will be accepted by the House as some relief to the poorer sections of the community, it will be accepted by all that it is very inadequate relief. It does not comply with the promise made of 6d. a week increase in the old age pension. As far as I can make out, it will range from 5½d. per week downwards possibly to 2½d. That is very poor recompense to that poor section of the people.

Senator Ruane talked about people on this side being vehement in opposition to this Bill. There is no opposition whatever to it, but there is criticism of its inadequacy. There is also the criticism that was expressed by Senator Hawkins, that it is not a desirable thing to introduce a measure which confers financial benefit on a section of the community for one week and one week only. A precedent is thereby established by which a Government, on the eve of an election or by-election, could spend a considerable amount in that way. As part of the national revenue, it may be a comparatively very small sum, but it may be spread over a lot of people for only one day in the year. That precedent is being set up now. It was adopted in regard to the Civil Service when a temporary provision of this kind was made which enabled £1,000,000 to be spread over a large section of the community. Here we have £250,000 being spread over an even larger section.

It would be far better if the principle were accepted that it is desirable to give some bonus to the poorer sections of the community at Christmas time, as is done by some good employers. I think it should be a permanent measure and that this Bill, instead of being for one week only this Christmas, should be for Christmas week in all coming years.

In addition to that—I am expressing a personal opinion now—I have often felt that in some way or another, pensions and allowances of the poorer sections of the community should be related to the cost of living, by means of a cost-of-living bonus which would rise or fall, according to the changes in the cost of living. That would be desirable because the increases in the cost of living which have taken place over the last year have placed a severe burden upon the people in the lower income groups.

The principle of providing one payment, and one payment only of this kind, spreading it over a large number, is one that would lead to very bad results, if followed by future Governments. I would ask the Minister to indicate that, while this Bill is of a very temporary nature and relates only to one week's payment, the Government intends to make this measure permanent and to double the pensions in respect of Christmas week in the future.

I would congratulate the Minister on one small point in the Bill. Perhaps he is not directly responsible for it. I refer to the improved type in the rubrics of this Bill. It is the first time I have seen it used in the rubrics and I am sure we are grateful to him as Senators. The work of legislators should be eased in every way by those who prepare Bills. This is an example of thoughtfulness by those who prepared this Bill and I congratulate the Minister on that point.

I stated by way of interjection—I hope it will not be regarded as an interruption—that whilst, as a member of the Government, I have to accept and take full responsibility for the increase in the price of tea, as Minister for Social Welfare dealing with this Bill, I did not think it was proper to talk about the actual price of tea or how the price occurred. That is the only point I wanted to make then and I did not intend it to be an interruption of Senator Hawkins's speech. The fact is that the tea price has increased by approximately 2/-. What amuses me is that one Fianna Fáil Senator or, I might say, one Fianna Fáil public representative, tries to outdo the other when talking about the increase in the price of tea. Various increases were suggested in this House and in the other House. One Fianna Fáil man started off with 2/2 and I think that to-day we have got up to about 2/8. If my information is correct, it may not be 2/- per lb. but I am not the best judge of that, any more than is Senator Hawkins the best judge about the 2/8.

It has been reckoned that the increase will be approximately 2/- and not on the actual amount given by way of ration during the emergency when the average consumption per individual was determined at 2¼ oz. That is the latest and most up-to-date figure. It was thought, in respect of old age pensioners, blind pensioners, widows and orphans and all those catered for in this Bill, that the average weekly consumption would be higher. The compensation was, therefore, arrived at on the basis that they would consume approximately 4 oz. and that the increase in the price of tea would mean to them an additional 6d. per week, approximately. That is how the actual amount was arrived at.

I do not think the Tánaiste was guilty of breaking a promise, or that the Government were either, in the light of what the Tánaiste said in the Dáil. He did not promise 6d. per week. I do not think any Senator can produce any information from the Dáil debates to show that he promised an actual 6d. per week. Here is a quotation from the Tánaiste's speech in the Dáil on the 26th October last, as reported at columns 75 and 76 of the Official Report:—

"The Government have been most anxious to see, therefore, what could be done, as evidence of their goodwill, of their sympathetic understanding of the difficulties of these people, as evidence of their desire to help them, to shelter them from the impact of this increase in the tea prices and they have decided that it will give to these persons, that is, to old age pensioners, widows, blind persons and long duration disability benefit recipients, a compensatory payment of their basic allowance in one single payment which will offset the additional cash cost in one year of the increased price of tea...."

That is exactly what this particular Bill is doing. I am glad that Senator Hawkins and some of his colleagues are concerned about the old age pensioners because it did not seem evident in recent years that they were. The record of this Government in respect of the people catered for in this Bill is second to none and, in that, I include all Governments since the establishment of this State in 1922. Nobody can point to a time when so much was given by way of increase to old age pensioners as has been given this year. An additional 2/6 per week was given to them, plus other classes, in July, costing £1,250,000—and now we propose to devote £250,000 to them. That is no mean sum of money and, when I make that statement, it is not necessarily to be taken as my view, or the Government's view, that the old age pensioners have enough. However, it is the best effort that has been made by any Government since the establishment of this State.

It is interesting to consider, in this connection, the compensation given to old age pensioners in 1952, when, as a result of direct action by the Government at the time, the cost of living increased by 13 points. The compensation given to old age pensioners in respect of that increase in the cost of living was a miserable 1/6 per week.

That statement is not true. The compensation was 4/- per week.

In the words of Deputy MacEntee, the then Minister for Finance, a sum of 1/6 per week was to be given to those people to compensate them for the withdrawal of the food subsidies. A sum of 2/6 was given in the previous year and it had no reference to the 1952 Budget.

It had reference to the increased cost of living, which has been referred to.

I cannot give the actual number of points, but the increase in the cost of living has no relation to the 13 points increase as a result of the 1952 Budget. The compensation we have given this year for the increase in the cost of living that has occurred is far in excess of any increase given during the régime of the Fianna Fáil Government or any Government. The main point is this. People may describe this Bill as a mean Bill and may talk about its inadequacy so far as these people are concerned, but it is £250,000, and it is the first time that the Government have acted directly by giving an increase, where there was an increase in the cost of an essential food commodity, such as tea.

I am conscious of the plight of other people who are in receipt of different social welfare benefits. As I told the Dáil about two years ago, I am having examined the possibility of coming to their assistance. I hope to have that examination completed in a reasonable time.

The method of payment will be by a single cheque to old age pensioners, blind pensioners and widows and orphans on 23rd December. All these people have to do is to produce their pension order books when they will be given an additional amount—the amount to be the same as their weekly payment. Those who are deemed to be chronically ill or who are long-term disability benefit recipients will receive an additional cheque on the week commencing 19th December.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take the next stage?

Might we have agreement to take the next stage now?

I understand it is proposed that the House will meet to-morrow.

Not necessarily.

We would know that definitely by the time the House adjourns for tea and, if so, we would give it——

Even if the House were meeting to-morrow, this is the kind of Bill that is not really amendable, either here or elsewhere. It is amendable only by way of reduction: I take it that no Senator would want that.

We might be able to get the Minister to improve it.

That would not be possible, without a Money Resolution in the Dáil.

It would not be possible to do that in time, as the first payment has to be made by 19th December.

That is not the fault of this House.

I am willing to come to the Seanad on Saturday or Sunday, if need be: it does not make any difference to me.

What about postponing the Committee Stage until after the tea interval to-day?

Ordered: That the Committee Stage be taken at 7 o'clock.
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