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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 23 Jul 1958

Vol. 49 No. 11

Finance Bill, 1958 ( Certified Money Bill )— Committee and Final Stages.

Sections 1 to 68, inclusive, agreed to.
Schedules agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without recommendation.
Agreed to take remaining stages to-day.
Question proposed: "That the Bill be returned to the Dáil."

I should have liked to have spoken on the different sections of the Bill, but, first of all, I have been abroad and have only just come back and I have not had time to go into details as I would have liked to do. Secondly, I cannot help feeling that proposals and suggestions on the Committee Stage of the Bill in this House are rather futile. Therefore, I shall not delay the House very long and I have taken the line of speaking on the Final Stage on the matters contained in the Bill.

One would expect from a Finance Bill, which is the translation of the Budget into law, that its provisions would go further than merely collecting taxation from the citizens and the business community. It is always felt, and it should be a fact, that the Finance Bill should be an instrument not only for collecting taxation but also an instrument of economic policy, something that would enable the country to expand its economy and create wealth from which more money could be derived by the Exchequer at a lower rate of taxation. If our economy were expanded sufficiently to give a larger national income, we would be able to get the money required to run the State at much lower rates of taxation.

If you ask anybody to-day what he thinks of this Finance Bill or its contents, he will probably say that what strikes him is that it is a further tightening of existing methods of collecting taxes and an extension of the ways of doing it. First, there is a greater squeeze on individuals; there is to be a more rigidly-imposed form of assessing taxation and the Revenue Commissioners are to utilise further the ordinary citizens and business people to do tax collecting for them. That is the broad picture most people see in the Bill. There are reliefs for exporters and industry and some other minor reliefs, but on the whole these reliefs are unimaginative and not the type of thing we in our present circumstances require to create national wealth and achieve the increase in national income we need, if we are to keep our people at home and employ them here.

One of the characteristics of this Bill also is that it seems to be copied straight from the British Finance Act, except that we seem to select the rather penal and petty side of the British Finance Act, without giving the imaginative side or the really broad and visionary side any consideration. To take one outstanding item— surtax—we start surtax at £1,500, whereas in Britain, at present, it is £2,000. There is talk—and serious talk —in financial and business circles of extending the £2,000 to £5,000. I am sorry to say it is an indication of the small-mindedness that we bring to bear on financial and business matters in this country, that it was thought not only by this but by other Governments, that it would be unpopular to extend surtax beyond £1,500. Anybody having £1,500 is supposed to be wealthy and supposed to be able to bear this penal taxation. I would submit that is not correct. I think the surtax figure should have been raised here from £1,500 to at least £3,000.

My point is that we are disappointed that on this occasion, as on every other occasion, no imaginative approach was made through the Finance Bill to bringing about the dynamic industrial economy here which we so badly need. In fact the boot is on the other foot; we have a running-down economy; we go abroad to Paris and elsewhere telling the people we are an undeveloped country, that we are only starting. We cannot always be "only starting", especially after 35 years. This approach is rather pathetic. Western Germany had to start in 1945 having been beaten to the ropes and yet we now find her with one of the most dynamic economies in the world. That is because she used finance weapons imaginatively and by using private enterprise instead of trying to carry on with a half-baked socialist, state-run economy.

On the Fifth Stage, the Senator must confine himself to the contents of the Bill.

With due respect, Sir, I am confining myself to the contents of the Bill, and to the provisions in it. It is admitted by everybody that a Bill of this kind must be aimed not only at the collection of taxes but also at the direction of our whole economy. I say that the provisions in this Bill are not such as to create the incentive and the opportunity to provide the kind of economy that we need in order to pay the taxes imposed by the Bill.

I did not make any suggestion on the Committee Stage because it is my experience—and the business community and vocational bodies feel very strongly on this also—that though representations were made in regard to many of the sections in the Bill, those representations achieved practically nothing whatsoever. The views and suggestions of these bodies were listened to, but I can see no indication in this Bill of their views and suggestions having been acted upon. There is, therefore, a sense of futility and disappointment among our citizens generally, and there is a feeling that among the higher authorities in the Government there is a sort of self-satisfaction and unapproachability. Even if the Minister for Finance happens to be a rather nice person, and meets representatives of the various sections of the community, one may be sure he will not act on anything that is suggested, even by chambers of commerce, and I think it is my duty to draw attention to this fact.

Perhaps the Minister will say that he is awaiting the report of the Commission on Taxation before he gives us a different kind of Finance Bill next year, directed not only at tax collection but at creating a better and sounder economy. If that is so, well and good, but I hope we shall not receive a report from the commission which will not be of much use. Whether it be good or bad, I hope the Minister will have enough experience to do the right thing, without being told by the commission what he should do. Unfortunately, the terms of reference of the commission make it almost impossible for it to make any constructive or imaginative suggestions for the future. I am frankly disappointed, as are business people and citizens in general, with the contents of this Bill. It is a very long Bill but nine-tenths of it is taken up with squeezing more taxation out of fewer people than ever before. Unless we change this conception of Finance Bills, and this mentality, I am afraid we shall not have any improvement in our national economy.

I should like to remind Senator McGuire that the Finance Bill deals with taxation. I do not know what exactly the Senator has in mind with regard to providing some kind of economic policy in it. The only way it could be done would be by changing the incidence of taxation. If any Senator goes through the Bill, he will find there are more reliefs given than new taxes imposed. In fact, no new taxation is imposed. There is, however, provision made that people who are avoiding and evading income-tax will have to pay in certain ranges, if the Bill is successful. It is more rigid in that way, as the Senator says, but I do not think any Senator should object if an attempt is made to make the incidence of taxation more equitable all round.

As I said before, we all detest paying income-tax but it is at least a little more tolerable if we feel everybody has to pay it, and that some people are not getting away with it. The greater part of this Bill is devoted to that end.

It was mentioned in the Dáil, as well as in the Seanad, that surtax commences here at £1,500 and that in Britain it begins at £2,000. There are only a few isolated instances like that where British taxation is more favourable than ours.

It starts at £2,500 in Britain.

It starts at £2,000.

My information is £2,500.

The Senator is wrong.

I may be wrong——

If a man has a wife and two children, it starts at £2,500, but not otherwise. We have also been criticised for pleading in Europe that we are an undeveloped country. If our delegates had gone across to Europe and said we would be able to stand the full implications of the Free Trade Area, I am afraid we would be criticised also. The reason we are pleading that we are an undeveloped country is to allow ourselves a little more time to make the adjustments necessary. It was done in the interests of this country because our manufacturing industries are mostly new and, in some lines, manufacturing business has not yet started. That plea was made so as to give a chance to the business people here to develop their businesses.

It is quite true, as the Senator said, that I did receive representations from chambers of commerce and other organisations of that kind. We discussed the provisions in this Bill and they did not like some of them. I did not see they had made a very good case why those provisions should not be put in the Bill, and I do not see how that matter can be resolved, unless you let the Minister for Finance have the last word. If we were to agree here, by legislation, that the Minister for Finance should not have the last word, I do not know where it might end. I certainly would be very pleased, indeed, if I could do what Senator McGuire says, that is, to give some relief in taxation in the next Budget.

Question put and agreed to.
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