Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 22 Jun 1960

Vol. 52 No. 17

Intoxicating Liquor Bill, 1959—Report and Final Stages.

Government amendment No. 1:

In Section 14 (being the new section inserted in Committee), subsection (1) (c) (ii), before "in" where it first occurs to insert ",either, partly on that site or."

Minister for Justice (Mr. Traynor)

This small amendment relates, of course, to the new section inserted yesterday on the Committee Stage by Amendment No. 20.

As the House will recall, the amendment made provision for the granting of a new licence where the licensee pulls down an old public house and re-builds on the same site or close beside it. The existing law makes such provision only where the existing premises are burnt down or otherwise accidentally destroyed.

In moving his amendment yesterday, Senator O'Quigley mentioned that in a case which came up in the circuit court very recently—within the last couple of weeks I think—the Judge made the point that if premises are re-built partly but not wholly on the same site, it is difficult to say either that they are on the same site or that they are in the immediate vicinity—that they come, so to speak, somewhere between. This was mentioned to the draftsman last evening and while he has no real doubt that the present draft is in order, he agreed, in view of the remark attributed to the circuit court judge, to make this amendment in order to put the matter beyond any need for argument. Accordingly I commend the amendment to the House.

Mr. O'Quigley

I think the amendment is in order and I greatly appreciate the trouble the Minister has taken in this matter. It will relieve very severe hardship in a couple of cases for which there was no remedy except the method which the Minister has so kindly agreed to.

Amendment agreed to.

Government amendment No. 2:—

In Section 14, (being the new section inserted in Committee), subsection (1) (d), before "remains" where it first occurs to insert "any".

Mr. Traynor

This is just a drafting amendment. It brings in the word "any".

Amendment agreed to.

Bill received for final consideration.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Dr. O'Donovan

I should like to wish the Minister well with this Bill. It is by no means as radical an alteration in the customs of the trade as that made by the late Kevin O'Higgins in 1927 but there is a new idea in it, one idea at any rate and perhaps another minor idea, and I hope it will go as well as the Minister thinks it will.

Tomás Ó Maoláin

I should just like to say that we are very happy that the Bill will soon be law. One enterprising publican in rural Ireland has already issued a calendar for 1960 which he subtitles "The Year of the Liquor Bill". As Senators are aware, it is an old tradition with the people in rural Ireland to express their happiness in story and verse whenever the occasion for doing so arises. The happiness of the great majority of the people in rural Ireland who like to take a drink on the liberalisation of our drinking laws has found expression in verse on this particular calendar and no remarks of mine could say it better. I think the Seanad might like to hear it.

An Cathaoirleach

There is no reference to poetry in the Bill.

Tomás Ó Maoláin

It is in reference to the Bill and it epitomises the pleasure which publicans and drinkers and Guards will have in——

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator will be able to relate it to some section of the Bill?

Tomás Ó Maoláin

Yes. It relates to all sections. This is the verse:—

The licensing laws will soon be changed,

We think it's for the best,

At last the poor old publican

Will sometimes get a rest.

Although it won't do any good

To say you're bona fide,

Whenever you have a drink in a pub,

You'll know you're justified.

They're going to let you have a drink

When coming home from Mass,

And you won't upset your Mrs.

When you have your bit of gas,

You'll have your drink and then go home

To dinner boiled or fried,

When the family greets you with a smile

You'll know you're justified.

When you've helped to wash the dishes

Or to do the drying up.

And have gone to see the ball game

You might like another sup,

You needn't dodge round corners—

You can walk right in with pride

And call aloud for large ones

And know you're justified.

An Cathaoirleach

I am afraid the Senator must get the ballad printed and put it on sale.

Tomás Ó Maoláin

There is only this verse left:

We hope there won't be any crib,

With Sergeant or with Guards,

We're finished now with hiding

Behind barrels in backyards,

So we need only play the game

For it cannot be denied

When a Guard must use his pencil

He'll be really justified.

I should like to congratulate the Minister on a fine piece of work and wish the Bill and its operation success.

Mr. Traynor

If I am in order, I should like to thank both the Senators and the Deputies who have participated in this discussion. There can be no question whatever about the fact that the Bill which is leaving this House now is a Bill that has been greatly improved as a result of the discussions in the other House and in this House. That can best be realised by the fact that there have been something in the region of 30 amendments to the Bill. These amendments, in the main, arose out of suggestions, discussions and amendments put down by Deputies and Senators. What has happened here in this House has been similar to what happened in the other House. We had suggestions such as those made by Senator O'Quigley and Senator Louis Walsh which, while they drew our attention to certain matters, in the form in which they were submitted we realised they could not be made law. With the aid of the draftsman, however, we were able to accept them.

I should like, also, to say that I do not regard this Bill as the perfect instrument which some people might think I thought it was. I do not for a moment believe it is the perfect instrument. I do not suppose there is anything in this life that cannot be perfected to a greater degree. No doubt the law will be improved again at some later stage but this Bill is an effort to resolve the present situation which we know to be a bad situation. My great hope is that it will be improved and I hope the optimism of the poet in the poem we have just heard will be realised. If the law is properly enforced, it will not be just as simple as the poet thinks it will be. However, it is good to see that even in that particular form someone thinks that this Bill is a great improvement.

I am satisfied that it will produce a reasonably good number of amenities which have not existed up to the present. My only hope is that these amenities will not be abused. There could be excellent work done in this regard if there is proper co-operation between the publican and the client. If the client does not insist on remaining on the premises when he should not be there, and if the publican does not serve drinks to his client when he knows full well that the client cannot consume the drink in the time allotted to him, all will be well.

With that kind of co-operation, I am quite satisfied that things will go as they should. I should also say that the publican should realise that in serving drink around closing time he is endangering himself. I would also like to impress on the customer that he will probably find himself in court if he endeavours to stay in a licensed premises beyond the time that he should. I am hoping and urging that between the publicans and their customers there will be observance of the law and that they will make it easy for the Garda Síochána to deal with the matter fairly and without favour to anyone.

Once again, I would like to thank the Senators for the most business-like manner in which they have dealt with this Bill. I am very grateful.

Question put and agreed to.