When the House adjourned last night I was dealing with the so-called go-ahead business methods referred to by the Minister for Transport and Power, Deputy Childers, in his press conference recently. I mentioned Stillorgan as an example of the go-ahead outlook of the Department. It is hard to estimate at this stage the amount of business and the amount of money which has been lost to the Post Office and the Exchequer through the failure of the Post Office to establish itself in Stillorgan on an equal footing at least with the commercial banks.
I should like to give another example of the go-ahead business methods of the Department in Ballymun. Here we have another, shall I say, huge housing estate, a new town, established on the outskirts of Dublin. As far as the people in Ballymun are concerned they are forgotten completely by the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. Were it not for the fact that the people who planned this new town made the preliminary arrangements, with the necessary engineering construction work, I do not think that the Post Office would have given even the slightest consideration to meeting the essential requirements of the residents in that area. This is a typical example of the lack of drive in this Department and, consequently, a lack of funds or new business which could be available to the Exchequer.
It would be an interesting exercise to estimate the total amount of money lost to the community in both of these areas through the inefficiency of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. When I mention the inefficiency of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs maybe I should reach back further behind this Department and ask would it be possible that it is the dead hand of the Department of Finance that has prevented the Department of Posts and Telegraphs from being a bouncing, energetic Department. Would it be right to say that the Exchequer controls absolutely any attempt at initiative by the Department of Posts and Telegraphs? If that is true, then there is call for an immediate break, or severance, of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs from the Department of Finance.
I do not want to blame the Department of Finance too much for this. If the Minister in charge of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs displayed the same fighting spirit in his Department as other Ministers do in other Departments, the Department of Finance would not be in complete control. The Minister and his officials should stand up to the Department of Finance and say: "We will not accept any further restriction on the initiative we should like to show in seeking new business and giving service to the community."
There is another example which I should like to give the House of the go-ahead methods of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs and their regard for buying Irish goods. We all heard the pre-Christmas exhortation of Senator O'Kennedy last night to buy Irish as much as possible and support home industry. Members of the House are familiar with the telephone directory and most of you are familiar with the classfied list. The Department of Posts and Telegraphs have now made a decision to hand over the publication of a classified list to an American company known as the ITT Group. I am informed that this new arrangement supersedes the present one, and now the classified list, or pink pages, in the directory will be handed over to this American company while the directory itself will be published under the auspices of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. The classified list, known as The Golden Pages, will be published by an American company.
This, to my mind, is an extraordinary decision. First of all, it casts reflection, if we want to go outside the Post Office, on other Irish printing groups and contractors in the printing field. It shows little confidence on the part of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs in Irish industry in that they will allow an American company the franchise, not this year or next year but for the next five years, given to this company. It is no reflection on the American company. However, they must be attracted very much to this contract from which they hope to make good profits. That is what business is. It is extraordinary that, so far, a number of Post Office employees have resigned and taken up employment with this American company because the standard of salaries and wages are far in excess of those available to them in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. In some instances the remuneration is more than double, and nearly treble, that which these people would get in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. In spite of that this American company expects to make substantial profits.
Where is the go-ahead mentality of Posts and Telegraphs? If an American company can afford to double and treble salaries and still make a profit, surely there is something wrong when the Post Office cannot do something about it? I have mentioned this to show the inaccuracies in the statement of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs when he tried to justify the recent Post Office increases. The Minister has stated that it would be impossible to make up the sum of £3 million on new business, on economies or on improvements. I have already suggested to the Minister hidden subsidisation by other Departments in Posts and Telegraphs. I have referred already to the fact that only three-quarter per cent on the total turnover of £74 million is allowed to Posts and Telegraphs for administering that savings service on behalf of the Exchequer. I would imagine that, if we applied ordinary business rules to such transactions, a minimum of 2½ to three per cent would be a reasonable figure. If that criterion were applied, the Department of Posts and Telegraphs instead of getting £500,000 to £600,000 as an agent would be entitled to a figure of £2.5 million to £3 million. That would immediately wipe out the necessity for putting this budgetary tax on the users of the Posts Office. If it were necessary to raise that sum it should be raised directly and not through taxation on the general public and on the users of the Post Office. That is why I criticise the Department of Posts and Telegraphs for not insisting on a proper return and on proper remuneration for the work they do for the various Departments.
In Britain it is an interesting fact, and one on which I should like to quote here from a statement on the British Post Office from a file I had in 1967, that in the course of preparations being made in Britain to get away from the dead hand of Finance, it was stated that "at present the Post Office provides agency services to the Government at cost. In future the prices charged for such services should make a financial contribution to the Post Office". Is that not only reasonable? It means that if that is done the Post Office charges can be more reasonable and at a cheaper rate and then there is no question about it but it will bring more business in turn. That is the position, as I have quoted it, as it was in the British Post Office which was under the dead hand of the Treasury. The position is the same here. It would appear that there is to be no change in it.
Before I go on to deal with one of the more important services in the Post Office, the telephone service, I want to comment on Senator FitzGerald's statement here last night with regard to the salaries paid in the Post Office. The Post Office employees are the worst paid section of the public services. They are the Cinderellas of the service. They are the most highly skilled workers in it and the ones who carry the burden of the public criticism. Under the present system, if they apply for an increase in remuneration in their salaries for the work they do they are told "if you get it, the entire service must get it". All the higher echelons in the Civil Service insist that the Department of Posts and Telegraphs are at the bottom rung of the ladder. What has happened? The workers in the Post Office insisted on nine per cent. In my opinion it should be far higher. Immediately the higher echelons of the service insisted on their nine per cent. This is, in my opinion, where the Government failed. They should have put their foot down and said that the Post Office is entitled to this increase but it does not follow that all the higher ranks must automatically get nine per cent. The Government tamely allowed nine per cent to the higher ranks up to the Secretary of the Department and now we have to face this mini-Budget.
Unfortunately, whenever the lowerpaid sections of our community get what they are entitled to, those on top insist on their pound of flesh. I have listened to the Minister for Labour exhorting trade unions to see that because they were very strong they should not use their weight too much to improve conditions of their own members but should cast an eye on the conditions of less well-organised workers. Here we have a position in the service itself where the worker sections demand a justifiable increase and the Government itself then allows the higher echelons to get the same increase. Is there a trace of an incomes policy there? Is there any justification for that? What I am hoping to hear is whether statements made from the Department are accurate when they deal with this mini-Budget. They were not accurate when dealing with the Post Office.
We have the official supplement to Iris an Phoist, published by the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. Many people believe what is printed in that pamphlet is as accurate as the Gospel. They take it for gospel. I think it is only fair that we should shatter their illusion on the accuracy of the supplement to Iris an Phoist.
In that regard I want to deal with the telephone service. In my opinion it should be and is a necessity for industrial, economic and social purposes. It is a "must". Judging by the efforts of the present Minister to deal with telephone communications it would appear that he wants to put it in the category of a luxury at the present time. It is the most important method of communication which is available to business today. Everything that can be done should be done to keep costs in this field down so that more business can be done. Instead of that we have this weak, pathetic Minister for Posts and Telegraphs bowing to the moneyed lords in the Treasury and accepting their grasping control over the communications system. At his press conference which was held at the direction of the Taoiseach, Deputy Childers said he was pleased to announce a reduction in some trunk call telephone charges.
That was the only ray of hope in it. He said it was hoped that this would encourage users to make more use of that service. Is there not a glimmer of commonsense there? He reduced some trunk call charges and hoped by so reducing them people would use the service more. Is it not a pity that he did not apply that commonsense to the rest of the telephone service instead of jacking-up the costs in some instances by no less than 50 per cent? There is a lesson, if he only realised it, to be learned in his statement that by reducing the cost more business would come about. He goes on then to say that "the telephone increases proposed are intended to produce a return of 9 per cent approximately on net assets. This is a reasonable return".
Here we have a Minister of State expecting in the telephone service a return of 9 per cent on net assets. I wonder does the rest of the Government accept that approach in a matter of such vital importance to the community? We have commercial banking concerns today who think they are doing very well if they give 9 per cent for money turned over very quickly. It is regarded as a terribly high rate of interest. The extraordinary thing so far as the Post Office is concerned is that when dealing with savings it has taken three years to squeeze another half per cent return to the borrowers who are now getting 4 per cent for their savings. The Department is not satisfied with 5 or 6 per cent return on net assets. They want a commercial return of 9 per cent. That is outrageous. It is another step in helping to kill a public service. I hope there are other people who will agree with me on that, because I think it is not too late to press for a change to this disastrous programme planned for telephonic communication. These increases are not due until the New Year and I believe that it is not too late to allow commonsense to prevail.
In the course of planning to achieve this 9 per cent profit on net assets returned, a number of hidden charges are made on Post Office users. I should like to refer to a few of those. I have already dealt with the 50 per cent increase in the charges for local calls— calls that are now fourpence and which, at times, are almost impossible to get here in the city. The cost will be sixpence in the New Year. Is this 50 per cent increase to the man in the street justified? It creates the impression that nothing but contempt is felt for him because he can do nothing about it.
Let us look at some of the hidden charges in so far as the Post Office is concerned. All the installations and equipment in the Post Office are on the basis of rentals and, in so far as major installations are concerned, this is as it should be. If major equipment is placed in business premises or in houses, there is a rent, as we all know, but there are plenty of items that are considered as subsidiary apparatus that are let on a rental basis too, and I cannot understand the necessity for this. For instance, if a person wants to put in an extra plug or socket in his house for a telephone—if the plug or socket is required for any other purpose, such as the ESB, it can be purchased, but if it is required for the telephone it must be rented from the Department of Posts and Telegraphs —the charge will be 15/- a quarter. That charge is now going up by 33? per cent which will bring it up to £1. The plug or socket will never be owned by the person who rents, though it may last for a very long time. Is this not a hidden charge?
Take another simple item. When the telephone is being installed the standard length of cable supplied with the telephone is, as far as I know, eight feet, but if it is necessary for anybody to have a longer cable he must pay rent for the flex for every foot after eight feet, starting at 2/3d, and they will pay that charge for as long as they continue to use the cable. Surely that is another hidden charge—one which Deputy Childers, the Minister for Transport and Power, does not disclose to the public.
Regarding management in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, I am sure Deputies and Senators get their telephone accounts regularly but I wonder if Members of this House are aware that in many parts of the country the bills for the July period have not yet been received by telephone users? In many cases there are delays up to 12 months before some people get their telephone bills.
We will take as an example the temporary renting of a telephone for some occasion, say, a carnival—I might have said for some political purpose but I do not know as much about that as other people who are Whips and so on. Very often, three, six or nine months can elapse before a bill is made available by the Department. I know of cases where the people concerned have applied for the bill but it has not yet been made available to them and they have applied so that they could wind up their accounts and present them at their committee. It will be appreciated that these bills could be very high if calls might have been made to America and such places. Is this an example of the efficiency of the management of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs?
Let us look now at the service itself. Apart from what the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs has to say on this, I should like to say that the service is very bad in many instances. That is not to say there have not been improvements because there have been certain improvements, but it would be more honourable for the Minister and for his colleague, Deputy Lalor, to admit to the public the serious weakness of the telephone service. It would be much better if they would face the facts rather than to be utilising their positions to bluff and hoodwink the public.
On 29th October of this year, a question was raised in Dáil Éireann by Deputy Richie Ryan, asking Deputy Lalor to account for the delays to users of the telephone service here in Dublin. The answer given by Deputy Lalor would appear to have been directed to giving the impression that the delays were only minor and that the service, on the whole, was excellent.
I wish to give two concrete examples of what is happening in that particular field. I am glad the Taoiseach is here because the facts I am giving now are accurate and can be stood over. First, I will give the figures for a provincial telephone exchange and these figures have been taken from the diary of the exchange. Members will have to bear with me with regard to this provincial exchange if I do not not name it and the reason I do not name it is because, by the time I would have finished my speech, one of the bullyboys from the Department would be at that exchange and it would be God help the staff. They would have to undergo investigation and interrogation comparable to that of Nazi Germany because these are the tactics that are adopted by these bullyboys in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.
I refer to a night after 6 o'clock in the month of August in an area where tourism was of prime importance and where hoteliers had been suffering from apoplexy trying to assure their guests that they would get them through as soon as possible.
Many of those tourist areas have visitors who want to ring up their families in England and elsewhere and it could be a very fruitful source of income to the Department of Posts and Telegraphs if the service were given. On a night in August, this is the report which was given. The following are extracts from the diary for Friday, 18th August:
9.40 p.m. Unable to raise Exchange.
10.11 p.m. Unable to raise Exchange.
10.30 p.m. Unable to get Exchange.
11.00 p.m. Unable to get Exchange.
11.30 p.m. Unable to get Exchange.
Those are definite inquiries and complaints. The people in the exchange were asked for an explanation from the postmaster in the major exchange. The answer was:
Very heavy pressure.
20/30 lines called.
Continuous great delay in answering.
One operator busy booking.
Delay in booking.
Staff on duty unable to cope with traffic.
Short eight telephonists.
This is in a small provincial exchange where there was a shortage of eight telephonists. Those remarks refer to 8 to 9 p.m. From 9 to 10 p.m. the remarks were:
Extreme pressure.
25/30 lines called.
Continuous delays.
Subscribers complaining about delay in answering.
Delay in connecting cross-Channel calls due to lines congested.
From 10 to 11 p.m. the remarks were:
Extreme pressure.
Great delay in answering.
30/35 lines called.
Short the same number of telephonists.
The summing up in the exchange was:
It will be seen from an extract in the exchange diary that conditions in the exchange on that particular night were difficult and because of the shortage of staff there was great delay in answering. From 10 to 11 p.m. there was a shortage of nine operators.
That is a provincial exchange. We had the Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Lalor, dealing with the position here in the city. He sought to suggest that the number of operators employed after 6 p.m. varies from hour to hour and from day to day and the average number on duty during a peak period each evening after 6 p.m. during a certain period last year was 180.
Let us take the actual position in the Dublin exchange in the month of August. The figures I have available here are again taken from the diary of attendance. Those are the figures which should count. This is the actual record of the position in the Dublin exchange for two separate weeks in August. The first week is from the 4th to 10th August and the second week from 11th to 17th August. I am dealing with the list of attendance of telephone attendants who were on after 6 p.m. It cannot be denied from the start that during the summer months here in Dublin it oftens takes eight and nine minutes before there is an answer from the exchange. If an unfortunate person wants to make a telephone call that person must wait up to nine minutes before the exchange even answers. That cannot be denied and I want to tell the reason.
During the first week I mentioned in August the part-time telephonists attended at 7 p.m. and 8 p.m. and went on until midnight or a little later. The majority were on from 7 p.m. until 11 p.m. In the month of August this was the list:
4th August— |
180 part-time attendants,that is night telephonists, were listed for duty, 81 attended. |
5th August— |
180 listed, 77 attended. |
6th August— |
177 listed, 85 attended. |
7th August— |
175 listed, 97 attended. |
8th August— |
179 listed, 87 attended. |
9th August— |
185 listed, 89 attended. |
10th August— |
179 listed, 87 attended. |
11th August— |
181 listed, 72 attended. |
12th August— |
180 listed, 103 attended—the number went up slightly |
13th August— |
175 listed, 104 attended. |
14th August— |
176 listed, 111 attended. |
15th August— |
178 listed, 96 attended. |
16th August— |
176 listed, 91 attended. |
17th August— |
179 listed, 79 attended. |
It will be seen that during the second week I mentioned the figures of attendance from 11th to 17th August were up somewhat on the previous week. I want to bring home to the House the fact that this rise, small though it was, was significant, because during that second week there was a break in the weather and it began to rain. As soon as the weather disimproved the attendance for part-time attendants, or night telephonists, went up. It can be traced exactly like a graph according to the weather conditions.
You may ask why that is? I do not think Members of this House know that the attendance of part-time night telephonists is purely optional, they need not come in at all. Most of those people of that 180 employed during the day are teachers, trade unionists and all sorts of people. They take on night telephone duties from 7 p.m. until 12 p.m. approximately and if they feel like going to a dance they go to it. If the weather is fine they will go for a swim. If it is raining they will go in and do a couple of hours duty. Attendance is optional. There can be no denying this fact. That is the reason why there is such an outrageous disregard for the people here in Dublin during the summer months when the City is packed with tourists.
When the Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Lalor, was queried about the number of calls made in a recent period, not during the months to which I referred, he said the number of effective trunk calls dealt with each evening during a certain period averaged 5,040 trunk calls. I have given the figures here where the attendance was approximately 50 per cent of the men listed. On the basis of pressure and delays of nine minutes for calls the number of trunk calls could be doubled each evening from 5,040 to over 10,000 trunk calls. Would anybody here estimate for me the loss of revenue to the Department and the Exchequer involved in this disregard for public services?
It is a well-known fact, and I am sure Members of this House will agree with me, that 50 per cent of the people who ring up and find there is a delay, that they cannot get through, forget about the call altogether, so we have no true indication of the exact loss of business involved at all. Many of those people are visitors who go away from this country disgusted with that particular aspect of our services. I want to tell the House why it is the Department of Posts and Telegraphs are dependent on part-time operators for night services at the Telephone Exchange.
About three years ago what we call the full-time night telephonists who depend on night telephone work for their living sought better conditions in the Department. They sought to establish their own union. They were hounded and kicked and some of them were even described as commies. They were put up in Mountjoy by the Minister. Even young telephonists who sought to support them were sent to Mountjoy. From that day to this the Department's vendetta became clear, they were to get rid of the full-time permanent night telephonists and replace them by temporary night telephonists. In so far as the full-time permanent night telephonists were concerned, the Department embarked on a vendetta to reduce their numbers and replace them by night telephonists. That is wrong. We would have a far better service if the people employed in it were full-time and dependent on it. If we hear charges of discourtesy and laziness it is against the part-timers that these charges can be levelled, not the full-time operators. Instead of carrying on this vendetta and having a so-called cheap service it is essential to reorganise the service and to give proper conditions in it.