Sea Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1970: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time".

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries (Mr. Fahey)

The purpose of this short Bill is twofold. Firstly, it is to enable An Bord Iascaigh Mhara to continue to borrow money from the Central Fund as it has been doing for many years and secondly it is to broaden the general powers of the board to borrow from other sources.

The Sea Fisheries Act, 1952, under which the board was established enabled the Minister for Finance, on the recommendation of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, to advance money to the board from time to time out of the Central Fund but the Act also restricted to £500,000 the aggregate amount that could be so advanced. After some years it became clear that the upper limit of the borrowings was no longer high enough. The limit was, therefore, raised to £1 million by an amending Act in 1956 and to £3 million by a second amending Act in 1959. The 1952 Act also provided that the board must repay to the Minister for Finance the advances from the Central Fund in half-yearly instalments with interest. A 20 year repayment period is being operated for the repayment of each advance. The board use the funds advanced to them from the Central Fund to give loans for the purchase of fishing vessels and the repayments by the vessel owners provide the funds that enable the board to repay the advances from the Central Fund.

The accumulated amount of the board's borrowings from the Central Fund since their establishment in 1952 has now reached the figure of £2,999,563 or for all practical purposes the limit of £3 million at present permitted by the Acts. The fact that the sum of £1,281,328 has been repaid or written off leaving the board's net indebtedness at £1,718,235 cannot be taken into account because of the wording of the 1952 Act which relates the maximum permitted figure of £3 million borrowing to the aggregate of all the borrowings over the whole period irrespective of what has been repaid.

For the continued development of the fishing industry it is essential that the board should be in a position to continue to make loans available for the purchase of fishing vessels and fishing gear. For that reason it is proposed in this Bill to raise the maximum amount of the board's permitted borrowings to £5 million and to provide that the new figure relates not as heretofore to the total amount borrowed but to the amount the repayment of which is outstanding at any time. The board's borrowings are at present running at about £500,000 a year and so the increase in the upper limit should provide for the board's needs for the greater part of the present decade.

While the foregoing outlines the essential purpose of this Bill, the opportunity is being availed of to provide for a useful amendment to one other borrowing power of the board as it is thought that the amendment may possibly be of advantage at some time in the future. Section 22 of the 1952 Act enables the board with the consent of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries given after consultation with the Minister for Finance to borrow temporarily by arrangement with bankers for current purposes. Those borrowings have in practice been limited to occasional small bank overdraft of sums not exceeding £50,000.

It has been felt that the provisions of Section 22 of the Act are too restrictive in confining the board's borrowings (other than its borrowings from the Central Fund) to borrowings that are temporary, that are only through bankers and that are only for current purposes. In case that at some time in the future more flexibility may be needed, the opportunity is being taken in the Bill to relax these restrictions by means of the provision in Section 2 of this Bill which will enable the board, if it so desires, to negotiate both long term and short term loans. It will also remove the restriction that borrowings must be arranged through bankers and finally it will make it possible for the board to borrow for capital as well as at present for current purposes.

For the benefit of those Members of Seanad Éireann who may not be fully familiar with the role of An Bord Iascaigh Mhara in the fishing industry, I would like to outline briefly what the board's functions are at present. The general powers of the board were set out in the 1952 Act in very broad terms but the primary purpose of the board's establishment can be described as the assistance and improvement of all facets of the sea fishing industry. In its early years the board actively engaged in a number of aspects of the fishing industry including the purchasing, processing and marketing of fish but as the years went by it gradually became clear that some of the board's activities were no longer necessary and that it should concentrate more on promotional and advisory activities. In 1962 the board's role in the furtherance of Government policy in modern conditions was set out in a White Paper entitled "Programme of Sea Fisheries Development". As a result the board has withdrawn completely from active participation in fish processing and marketing and now operates in the role of a development body for the industry. The board's present functions include the administration of a Marine Credit Plan under which grants and loans are given for the purchase of fishing boats and gear; the provision of an advisory service to fishermen to improve fishing techniques and promote co-operation among fishermen: the development of a system of speedy inspection and repair of fishing vessels; the development of markets at home and abroad for fish and fishery products; the encouragement of private investment in worthwhile fish processing undertakings; the operation of three boatyards for the building and repair of fishing boats; and the operation of ice-making plants at some fishing ports where such facilities are not provided by private enterprise.

The success of the board in these fields can be measured by many sophisticated yardsticks but surely the best indication of the thriving nature of our sea fishing industry at present is the ever-increasing demand by fishermen for more and bigger fishing boats. Many fishermen with the requisite experience of sea fishing are anxious to invest their savings in boats of their own while many others who have proved successful in operating their own boats are now anxious to turn over to larger vessels. This active demand for boats is without any doubt the best evidence one could wish to get of the progress being achieved in the industry and of the future that lies ahead for our progressive fishing community. There is no question but that this demand for boats must continue to be fostered by the grants and loans scheme operated by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara. The grants can continue to be made available from funds provided in the Fisheries Vote each year but the scheme of loans for the purchase of fishing vessels can be continued only through the provisions of the present enabling Bill. It is for this purpose that I recommend the Bill to the House.

Mr. McDonald

I should like to welcome the Parliamentary Secretary on his first visit to the Seanad and to wish him well in his important post. I should also like to welcome this opportunity of reviewing the progress of An Bord Iascaigh Mhara—the first time we have had an opportunity of doing so since 1963.

I feel the greatest need in the country, especially in the midlands, at present is that An Bord Iascaigh Mhara should go back in and organise orderly marketing of the end product. In a small country like this it is deplorable that 20, 30 or 40 miles from the coast it is not possible for the housewife to acquire a supply of fresh fish daily. She might have a chance of getting fish in some state or other on a Thursday evening or Friday. This is not good enough. The policy of having a limited number of markets is not one which helps the industry and helps to make fish readily available. I understand that fish from southern and western ports must be transported right across the country to the markets in Dublin and then brought back on the same route. That adds to the cost. It is most distressing for the housewife to hear each morning the very excellent fish market reports when she cannot get fish. This is a good policy on the part of the board and certainly advertises fish and gives many useful hints but the prices announced over the radio are far from the retail price which the consumers pay over the counter. All this unnecessary transport certainly adds to the cost. We have now reached the stage when the cost of transport is greater than the cost of the fish landed on the pier. The board should look at the decision taken in 1962 and endeavour to reorganise the orderly marketing of fish to ensure that the consumption of fish on the home market will vastly increase. I should like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary what the possibility will be of supplies being readily available.

Looking over the recent reports of the board I was more than surprised to see that a large number of trawlers had been seized by the board. Surely if the situation arises where trawlers which the board originally financed skippers to purchase must be seized in the good old-fashioned way of the last century there must be something radically wrong with the system under which these skippers and fishermen get these boats. I would ask that the board should seriously re-examine their policy in this respect and ensure that as many of our young and qualified fishermen or people with skippers' licences as possible should be able to work and pursue their livelihood in this way.

I see from the report also that the number of people employed in this industry, only something like 1,600 people in full-time employment, is indeed very small considering the fact that we have such a very long coastline. In addition there are only 3,700 in part-time employment. That is a total of 5,400 between people in full-time and part-time employment. The board's target should be to greatly increase this figure. The earning capacity of the industry is disappointing. From the figures supplied by the board, approximately £3 million worth of fish were landed this year. To most of us in the midlands the big shock was the fact that the cost of imports of fish amounted to £1.8 million last year. I quite agree that the Senator and John West salmon may have accounted for the greater proportion of this but I feel that a very serious effort must be made to reduce this high proportion of imports.

The few people in this country who, in the past, have helped to foster and build up stocks of fish and game have got little or no recognition from the Government and in fact no protection at all. I very much doubt the sincerity of those who hold fish-ins and shoot-ins. Stocks must surely become depleted if some authority does not look after them and see that the proper nets and so on are used. This highlights the necessity for an improved fishery research programme. The board or the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries should spend more money on fishery research. For our coastline we should have more than one semi-lame vessel attached to this important work. I would ask that the Department and the Parliamentary Secretary should take steps to provide more up-to-date research services so that not only will our fisheries be protected from the point of view of stocking but that these people could also keep an eye to the ever-growing problem of pollution and the effect it is having on the inshore fishing industry. I also feel that our fisheries and our trawlermen should get better protection from the fishery protection service.

Perhaps it may be argued this is a matter for the Minister for Defence but nevertheless adequate protection must be an important element in this industry. It is my opinion that this industry is not being dealt with as enthusiastically as it might and that many of us do not realise the full potential of the industry. It is not that the Department for Defence are not dealing adequately with the matter but rather that our fisheries protection system is not adequate. When I was on holiday last year I saw foreign trawlers fishing within sight of our shores. This is a deplorable situation. The onus is on the Government and on the Department of Defence to provide adequate protection for those young men who are prepared to undertake the purchasing of fishing trawlers which may cost £30,000 or £50,000. Young men who put themselves in that sort of debt are very brave and deserve all the help they can get.

The Department of Agriculture and Fisheries should impress on the Department of Defence the necessity for equipping the Navy to provide adequate protection for the people engaged in this industry. Figures in the last report show that there has been a 50 per cent increase in home consumption of fish since 1953. It is my belief that if distribution were organised in orderly fashion, the figures could be dramatically increased. There appears to be a move away from the theory of fish on a Friday only. People have become more conscious of the high protein content of fish.

If the board are to be congratulated the only activity for which I would congratulate them is on the success they have made of the seafood competitions in the secondary and vocational schools. Those competitions have helped more than anything else to highlight the many attractive ways in which fish can be presented. During the past few years they have instilled into every young lady in those schools a greater appreciation of the very excellent dish that fish can be. At competitions in my own county I have been amazed at the number of entries as I have also been amazed at the expertise which these young girls bring to bear in the preparation of fish dishes. The board and all those girls concerned deserve our appreciation. Those competitions, which are run under the excellent guidance of our teachers, have helped to get away from the fish on Friday only theory.

I hope the board will ensure that as many people as possible will be able to retain their boats. From reading the report of the Dáil debate on this Bill I reached the conclusion that the debate must have been very unsatisfactory because many of the questions posed were not answered by the Minister. I do not propose to ask the same questions here but I hope that when the Parliamentary Secretary is replying to this debate he will give us an assurance that his Department and An Bord Iascaigh Mhara will do all they can to ensure that those of our people who are engaged in the fishing industry will get a fair crack of the whip and that they will ensure also that a greater part of the profits of the industry will go to the people who catch the fish.

It cannot be said that this has happened in the past and the time has come when the board must re-enter, to some degree at least, into the distribution of fish. Markets should be reopened at some of the other ports. This will have the effect of reducing transport costs. I do not wish to complain about the price of meat which I consider to be still good value for money but, nevertheless, it is my belief that there would be greater consumption of fish if it were more readily available throughout the country.

Mr. Honan

Like the previous speaker, I should like to welcome the Parliamentary Secretary to the House. I am sure he will be able to deal with this Bill very satisfactorily. It is very important for us as a nation that we should concern ourselves with the development of a most valuable industry that is readily available to us.

Dr. Belton

Hear, hear.

Mr. Honan

It is not an industry for which grants for fertilisers or drainage or anything else are required. The great Atlantic Ocean and its ancillary seas provide this very remarkable product for us but herein arises a problem. I should like to pay a tribute to An Bord Iascaigh Mhara. In the days when there was no organised fishing business, I, as a youngster, remember reading in the papers the advertising campaign "Let next Friday be a hake Friday". Every paper carried an advertisement to that effect. It must be 30 years since I saw a hake. I wonder where they have got themselves to.

There is a feeling abroad that An Bord Iascaigh Mhara and the people engaged in catching fish and those engaged in marketing them are more concerned with the export market than they are with providing fish for the home market. Many people would say that in providing the money we are being asked to provide this evening, greater attention should be paid to the home market. The board have sizeable sales organisations working outside the country, particularly in the sales operations of shellfish. It has been practically channelled into an export market. Some time ago most people could afford lobsters but they are almost prohibitive today.

However, there were sizeable difficulties in the way of development of the fishery industry here if we consider other countries like Norway and Portugal where they go from there to the coast of Canada and where they follow the cod from one end of the world to another. We have not got the type of boats, the trained personnel or the tradition to do this. I once met a Swede on the west coast of America who was amazed that we could not recruit the expertise which is required here to activate ourselves in the development of the great Atlantic shelf which goes from 50 to 60 miles off the coast of Ireland. Many continental boats find it profitable to come and fish those waters. We find ourselves in the position that while those people are operating outside the new 12-mile limit we have neither the boats nor the people who are capable or willing to undertake the rigours of the Atlantic to pursue this trade.

In Clare we have the Atlantic coastline of something like 90 to 100 miles and we have one of the safest estuarial anchorages possible in the west of Ireland. It was the haven of the continental fleets which came a long time ago from France and Portugal and you could see as many as a couple of hundred boats anchored there in times of storm. However, in our 90 miles of coastline we have not one developed fishing port notwithstanding that we had seamen who sailed around the world in the old wind-jammers a long time ago. We have nobody there now who is prepared to take up fishing because there are no suitable boats available.

It does not matter how much money is provided in this Bill, the fishing grounds available will be the determining factor whether people will take on this hazardous work of fishing off the Atlantic shelf. If we do not provide them with the necessary equipment, such as radar stations from which they can take bearings, and boats suitable for the rigours of the Atantic, they will not take up fishing. Bord Iascaigh Mhara have done a wonderful job in providing inshore fisheries but if we want to get into the big fishing industry we must be prepared to go further afield and we must provide the fishermen with proper equipment, various navigational aids and with the marketing services.

I know there are skippers of many boats who fished off the west of Ireland who could not hope to get ashore on particular days, have their fish prepared and marketed, and who sold their fish on the high seas to some of the people we accuse of invading our territorial waters because they have a better market out at sea than they have ashore.

Take the herring harvest for instance. I should like to say that most of the herring is found in the spawning ground and every herring you get is full of roe. This is the seed they will sow. We are destroying our herring grounds by allowing those areas to be over-fished. The day is not too far distant when we will not have any herring ground at all. I am very fond of herring and I go into one of the fish shops where we get fish, as Senator McDonald said, once a week and I find only tiny little herring there which are only the leavings of what the foreigners buy. When we are talking about providing money for fishing there is also an obligation on some service, whether it is provided by Bord Iascaigh Mhara or otherwise, to see that the people here who provide the money are at least given an adequate supply of fresh fish rather than have us eating the bits and pieces which are left over after the foreigners have taken the cream of the market.

The amount of money provided in this Bill is so small that it is not worth arguing about here. If Bord Iascaigh Mhara want to make a success of the fishing industry they must realise that the Atlantic Shelf is the home of sea fishing and unless we provide harbours, safe anchorages and marketing services along the west coast we will never achieve what this country is capable of achieving in taking our small share from the great fishing industry which exists along the Atlantic Shelf. I know there are quite a number of profitable fishing operations going on in the more sheltered quarters, but when the Portuguese, the French and Spaniards go off to Canada we are here struggling around the coast while all those other fishing people have boats and gear that could provide us with great wealth. We have no great expenditure in this other than helping the fishermen to get trained, providing them with the gear and providing them with the types of boats they want.

This must come out of a tradition which unfortunately we have not got in the west of Ireland. We have not the boats there to create this. I know some of the best sailors in the world went out of the Shannon estuary because we had not safe anchorages there and there was no provision for helping them. All those young people have now left the west coast.

I, as a member of a vocational education committee, know that when scholarships were offered by Bord Iascaigh Mhara to provide young lads along the coast with special training to equip them to be skippers, and thereafter to provide the means for them to become owners of their own boats, they were unable to take advantage of it because there were no shore-based organisations. I mentioned the Clare coast because it is the one I know best, but I am sure there are other places on the west coast in the same position. The Atlantic Shelf is the prize in international fishing.

Mr. McDonald

True.

Mr. Honan

I welcome the Bill but I regret it does not go far enough. While the export market seems to be everybody's prize, Bord Iascaigh Mhara should do everything possible to organise a sales service thus providing that the people who invest the money will get at least a reasonable proportion of catches, in the same way as boat skippers give it to their crews. If we really intend to tackle this matter we must be prepared to make far more money available, to employ more experts with a knowledge of deep-sea fishing, people who are prepared to go to sea and to stay at sea in all kinds of weather.

It is important to realise that the west, the south and parts of the north coasts are exposed to Atlantic gales and that it is in those areas that the great prize is to be taken, not in ducking in and out of small places. With the limited resources various Governments have given to them Bord Iascaigh Mhara have done admirable work. Indeed we are not being over-taxed today by the demands they are making on us.

Mr. Lyons

I wish first of all to welcome the Parliamentary Secretary to the Seanad and to congratulate him on his appointment. I have known him as a Deputy for some time. I know he is a decent man and I hope he will listen to the arguments made on behalf of Bord Iascaigh Mhara. The remarks I will make relate to the whole question of fisheries. I might as well admit at the beginning that a lot of what I intended to say has been covered by Senator Honan.

I see no reason why we on this side should not accept the Bill but I should like to add to that my belief that the board are only scratching the surface of an extremely difficult but extremely rewarding project. The silver harvest of the sea has never been reaped here. Everybody has talked about it during the years because everybody knew that around our shores people from other nations have come to rob us of our birthright and we have been able to do very little about it.

Senator Honan was correct in what he said about deep-sea fishing. There is no doubt that unless we are prepared to go into deep-sea fishing we will not reap the rewards. For that, we must have adequate boats with adequate equipment like radar. Otherwise we shall never reap the full harvest that should be ours. Inland, 40 miles from the coast, one rarely sees fresh fish. We do not see it in Mayo and this should make everybody think. When we do get fresh fish we pay exorbitant prices by comparison with what fishermen get after all the hazards they have to brave.

Bord Iascaigh Mhara may say they are not involved in the marketing of fish. I agree they are not involved but I suggest they should set up a body that would first and foremost investigate marketing possibilities and secondly the question of the method of distribution so that fish can be on the plate of everybody who wants it and not on Friday only. Unless we are prepared to approach this problem in the widest possible context, unless we are prepared to do the thing right, unless we are prepared to invest enough money to make fishing not alone a commercial proposition for the people who engage directly in it but also something which is viable in the social sense, we will not get anywhere. The food value of fish is realised to be second to none and it is unfortunate that we should have allowed our opportunities to pass us by.

Even inshore fishing has not got the facilities it should have been given. Boats on the west coast are exposed to the wide Atlantic but no Department have assumed responsibility for providing the piers, the harbours, the landing slips for those boats. Mayo and other county councils, already overburdened by rates, have to contribute to the maintenance of piers. Admittedly piers are renovated and reconstructed by the Board of Works but their maintenance falls on the unfortunate ratepayers.

Many boats have been lost because they could not tie up in sheltered conditions, because the method of tying up boats is hazardous and out of date. We shall never improve our fishing to any appreciable extent unless we are prepared to invest considerably more in harbours so that boats can come in and unload quickly in modern conditions and so that the fish can be handled quickly in modern conditions and so that storage facilities are brought up to date. Until we begin to do these things we are only nibbling at the problem.

There has not been any worthwhile overall survey of the fishing industry to my knowledge. The Parliamentary Secretary may correct me if I am wrong. We have had no advisory service that could say to individual fishermen: "Here is a field of operations for you. We know that fish abound in a particular area of the coast at particular times. We can tell you the best time to go out. We can give you the navigational safeguards you will need and last but not least we will give you the protection you need when you go out."

I may be told that I am out of order when I speak of protection because it is the Minister for Defence who deals with it, but there is a necessity for the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and his Parliamentary Secretary to learn that we cannot afford to continue to dally with this problem. I know the cost of protection vessels is immense but if we are to do the job properly we must ensure that the best possible type of protection vessel is purchased. I have no doubt that it is possible to train personnel to man such vessels. We already have personnel capable of operating the type of protection vessels we have.

We have a naval vessel carrying out fishery protection. I do not wish to say anything at this stage about our neighbour but the protection of our fisheries is so important that the expenditure of much more money on protection vessels is warranted. Such expenditure is necessary if the Department decide that fishing shall be a viable industry in the future.

Something has been said about our imports of fish and fish products. We ought to export fish. An island country like ours should not import any kind of fish, processed or otherwise. We should be able to meet the requirements of the home market and to export to other countries.

Senator Honan mentioned that the traditional fishermen along our sea coast have lost the art of fishing. They never had the art of deep-sea fishing. They fished from small vessels like currachs which were not fishing vessels at all. Their art was important in its day. Today with all the modern devices and aids like radar people can be trained properly. It is possible to train young fishermen to do any kind of job. They can be prepared for fishing in the most modern way.

Bord Iascaigh Mhara must be complimented on the establishment of the fish cookery competitions. This was an excellent idea. It is one thing to have people trained in the preparation and cooking of fish but quite another thing to get the fish into the household so that people can prepare and cook it. There cannot be any great development in Bord Iascaigh Mhara in the immediate future with the amount of money we are asked for today. I would ask that Bord Iascaigh Mhara should set their sights higher. Bord Iascaigh Mhara should consider what has been said by the other speakers today. The Parliamentary Secretary should bring the views expressed to the notice of the Department and should request them to attempt to do something in the best interests of the fisherfolk and of the nation as a whole.

Mr. Sheldon

I was somewhat nervous of speaking on sea fisheries. Until eight months ago I lived a long way from the sea. I have lived in a sea-port for the past eight months. I have learned a little about the problems which exist. Some of these problems have been touched on already. Bord Iascaigh Mhara have been rightly complimented on the way they have encouraged the use of better and bigger boats. If we are going to fish in earnest we must take more advantage of the Atlantic shelf. We must go out further into the Atlantic. This cannot be done without bigger boats. There is no use having bigger boats unless there is somewhere safe for them to come into. We must examine what has been happening. Last year the amount of money voted by the Dáil for fisheries and harbours was not expended. Money was left over. It is no good saying that the money is not there.

I am living near what was a very great fishing port. As a port it is now practically non-existent. That happened partly because of an unfortunate accident to a foreign vessel. Lloyds refused to insure any boat going to that port. There are thousands of pounds' worth of machinery lying in sheds. This machinery is for dealing with fish. Nobody is doing anything about the situation. Between Killybegs and the Swilly there is only one place with deep water at all times and that is Kincasslagh.

I recommend that the Parliamentary Secretary take a look at the report by the Agricultural Institute on the survey of West Donegal. There is reference to fishing. According to their report the only hope for Donegal is the fishing. Donegal is not suitable for the planting of trees or for agriculture but it is certainly suitable for fishing. This position is dealt with fairly enough in one way and yet, considering it is so important, the report rather slides over it. Sufficient attention is not paid to the fact that there is deep water at all times at Kincasslagh. Mention is made that the lowest tide is 15 feet at the pier. This is in contradistinction to Burtonport where the high water point is 16 feet and the low water point six feet. At Kincasslagh it is reported that the lowest point is 15 feet or even 18 feet. There would be safe anchorage there if there was a breakwater there.

We are not fishing adequately if we are only fishing around the islands on our coast. We must be able to go out west of Tory. At the moment men are risking their lives going out west of Tory in 50-foot boats. It takes seven hours to steam from Killybegs to Tory. A journey to and from Tory takes 14 hours from Killybegs and this is not economic. It takes three hours to steam from Kincasslagh to Tory and yet nothing is happening there. There are many reasons for this. There are many rumours and I am finding it difficult to sort out fact from rumour. The engineers from the Office of Public Works know that Kincasslagh is the only place between Killybegs and Swilly which has deep water at all times. It really only needs a breakwater. The estimated cost of the breakwater varies from £50,000 to £1 million, depending on whom you are talking to and whether they think the breakwater should be built or not. Someone must take a hard look at the position. There are many men in the district who are willing to fish. It would be good if the fishermen had somewhere safe to go. I have spent one winter there. The gales which hit west Donegal are tremendous. One can appreciate the fishermen looking for safety at some stage of their journey.

There is an appalling difference between what the housewife pays for fish and what the fisherman gets for it. This is true of most products. The situation is becoming worse all the time. The housewife demands more packaging and more processing before she will buy and this has all to be paid for. There was a study recently of the various items which went to make up the price of fish on the Dublin market. Some of the items were rather odd. I understand that when one knows the full story a great many of the items seem even more odd. I understand the fishermen are charged 2s for the use of a box. There is nothing to stop them using the same box 20 times, yet every time they have to pay for the box as though it were a new one. Old-established practices like this are hampering our fishing industry.

The board have done a great deal to encourage people to eat more fish by teaching them how to cook it, but there is no point in doing this if the people never see any fish. In County Donegal one is lucky if one sees fish four or five times a year and then only when they were being dumped at the fish meal factory. I do not think we can blame our fishermen for the poor quality of the herrings because most of the herrings which come near the coast are spent. When I lived in Donegal I always managed to find myself a good sized fish but the vast majority were spent. It did not matter greatly to us because most of the fish were marinated and sent abroad.

If we want people to eat more fish —and certainly, economically, we should all eat more fish because it is much cheaper than meat — we must ensure that the present system whereby fish are sent from Donegal to Dublin and then sent back to Donegal again, is stopped because this to me is the last word in stupidity. This is yet another old-established practice which should be broken and I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will do something about it.

Every time the board organises a competition it is not only teaching people how to cook fish but it is increasing the interest in fish. I understand one of the reasons why all the really good brains come from the west coast is because of all the fish caught there.

Dr. Belton

I should like to welcome the Parliamentary Secretary on his first occasion in that capacity here. I hope that what I have to say will not offend him. Like Senator McDonald I support the idea behind this Fisheries Bill. I do not know that we as a nation are educated about the values derived from eating fish. I have relatives all over the country who do not like eating fish and whether this is from lack of education or lack of advertising of fish products I do not know.

Senator Sheldon referred to the monopoly position of those who distribute fish in this country. I feel there is a closed shop in relation to the distribution of fish not only in the country but in Dublin. I do not know whether this is because there is not a sufficient market for the produce or whether the price is so high because of this monopoly that people do not eat fish. It may be that as most people in this country are of a religion which obliges them to eat fish on Friday that they do not want to eat fish. I have some unionist friends in the North of Ireland who eat more fish than we do; in fact, they prefer to eat a fish than meat on many occasions.

When the Parliamentary Secretary is replying I should like him to tell the House the position of the fishmeal industry at the present time. I should also like to know its uses as animal food and fertiliser. Senator McDonald told me that he thought fishmeal used as a fertiliser is too expensive.

Not one speaker referred to the smoked fish industry. I may be peculiar but I like to eat a kipper for my breakfast, but I cannot buy a smoked herring. I do not know why we cannot have a proper smoked fish industry here. I would certainly prefer to eat Irish kippers than Isle of Man kippers but the Isle of Man kippers are more tasty and more palatable. I think I am not an exception. We all do. We even eat tinned stuff at present whether it is palatable or not.

There are many points I should like to make, not alone about our sea fishing but about our inland fisheries also. For instance, we export eels and they come back to us as smoked eels. This is true. I do not understand the logic of this situation. It is quite wrong. When I was in Paris many years ago one of the favourite dishes was pike. Yet we throw pike away. We throw away some of our greatest assets. Rough fishing in this country is not dealt with in the proper way at all.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

The Senator should not remain inland too long.

Dr. Belton

I was waiting for it.

Mr. O'Higgins

The Chair wants the Senator to get on to the cod.

Tomás Ó Maoláin

Come back from Paris.

Dr. Belton

Senator Sheldon and, I think, Senator Honan said that harbours were not adequately equipped and that boats are not adequately equipped for deep-sea fishing. Perhaps they are putting the cart before the horse in this matter. Dunmore East, which I know, is a reasonable harbour and yet it is frequently foreign vessels which come in and land fish there. We had our navy running after them a few times. I am not sure that it is harbours that should be provided at all. I accept that if boats are provided maybe our fishermen will have enough energy to go out and fish and then we should have harbours. This I would accept, but in Dunmore East it is the foreign vessels which land the fish.

What is happening to our 12-mile limit? Are we really entitled to have this 12-mile limit? If we are, surely we should be better equipped to prevent foreign vessels fishing within that 12-mile limit? It is not sufficient to have a 12-mile limit unless we can enforce that limit.

I am very interested in the fishmeal business and I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to deal especially with it because I really want to know about it. It is like the potato alcohol industry in County Louth. We do not know exactly what is happening to that either. I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to refer to this in his reply. I welcome him here and in general I welcome this Bill.

Mr. J. Boland

I have a fair amount of sympathy always with people who must make their living from the sea which surrounds the Irish coast. I feel that to some extent they suffer because of the fact that the organs of Government which administer the affairs of the sea are the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Department of Defence and, consequently, in the view of many people, the fishery service administered by the Department of Agriculture and the coastal protection service administered by the Department of Defence usually end up as rather the poor relation in the operation of those Departments. This may or may not be true but it is certainly the view held by many members of the general public.

In common with many other Members who spoke I would, of necessity, have to speak on this problem very much as a layman with a layman's approach to the whole business of fishing and indeed viewing it from the consumption end rather than the end at which the product is produced, although there is quite a sizeable part of County Dublin which adjoins the sea and there is a fairly big fishing industry in parts of County Dublin. One of the things we should remember is that fish is one of the few harvests we can reap without having to sow. The product is there for us and so long as we can utilise the best methods of reaping that product and properly marketing it we are getting something for which we do not have to pay.

I agree with the many speakers who have deplored the absence of a proper deep-sea fishing industry around this coast. It is rather galling for all of us, as Irish men and women, to go to virtually any of our ports and see boats from other countries unloading fish which was, more likely than not, caught in Irish waters, being bought by Irish or other middlemen and being sold, perhaps to the Irish public usually at a better price than the Irish fisherman has got and from a boat which is obviously far superior and crewed by people who are obviously far better off than their Irish counterparts. This is what is concerning most Members of this House and perhaps most Members of the other House who spoke on this problem.

We must ensure that the methods whereby fish are caught and marketed and the price obtained for the fish are at an optimum. I do not think that situation obtains at present. I agree very strongly with the Members of this House who spoke out against the seemingly unfair practices which still prevail in this industry in relation to the way fish is purchased from the fishermen and eventually placed on the market for the consumer. It seems to many members of the general public, whether this is right or wrong, that the people who make most money with the least amount of effort out of the fishing industry are the middlemen and the people who have to work hardest at this most dangerous and hazardous occupation and who make least out of it are the fishermen.

Obviously, this is the type of problem with which those Senators who have spoken are concerned. An Bord Iascaigh Mhara should direct their thoughts towards the idea of endeavouring to have controlled retail prices for various types of fish at various times of the year or, alternatively, to having a guaranteed price for various types of fish to be paid to the fishermen. This price should obtain all the year round and if it should appear that the middleman is then exploiting the market the board should purchase the fish at the ports and harbours and place it on the retail market.

I was amazed to hear the Parliamentary Secretary say that some years ago the board drew out of the business of fish marketing so that they could concentrate on the development of sea fishing. Allied with this is the problem of the revision of adequate harbour facilities. I know that this responsibility does not rest with the board or, indeed, with the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries but as a public representative for County Dublin I am aware of the delays in carrying out such improvements. There is a scheme presently in progress at Skerries but that scheme is the result of 25 or 30 years of constant representation and complaints. If we are serious about developing the fish industry we cannot have a situation whereby development of harbours is held up.

There is also an important social aspect of this industry. Many of our small coastal towns and villages rely on the fishing industry to a large extent. When deciding on schemes in order of priority, the Board of Works and An Bord Iascaigh Mhara should consider this social aspect. I support Senator Honan on the suggestion of developing our fishing industry into a deep-sea industry, an industry in which would be employed the most modern techniques so that our fishermen could compete with foreign trawlers who are at present fishing in Irish waters. We must face the fact that the 12-mile limit as far as the general public are concerned, and, indeed, as far as most of the fishermen are concerned, is a complete farce. We have not the ships to enforce the limit and many of our own trawlers would not think of venturing out much further than that limit anyway.

Senator Belton referred to a matter which at first may have seemed a little strange but in which, I realise, there is a fair amount of truth. It relates to the problem of marketing. A characteristic of Irish people is that they naturally rebel if they are told what they should do. I often think that if the representatives of an alien power a few hundred years ago had told us that we must be Catholics, by this stage, we would at least be members of the Protestant faith and, in all probability, we would be agnostics. However, because we were told that we must not be Catholics we took to the hills and valleys to practise our religion. In the same way, because we are told that we must eat fish on Fridays, a natural reaction has built up in the Irish people against eating fish on any other day of the week. The Irishman will ask himself why he should eat fish on a Wednesday when he must eat it on a Friday. Anything that smacks of compulsion is abhorrent to many Irish people and I would hope that the representations which, I understand, one of the Minister's parliamentary colleagues made recently to the ecclesiastical authorities will not go unnoticed.

The Parliamentary Secretary said in his speech that a sum of £1,281,000 has been repaid or written off from the board's borrowing from the Central Fund. I would be interested to know how much of that amount had been repaid rather than written off. Too often statements like this are made about two matters that have no bearing whatever on each other. There is a great difference between an amount borrowed and repaid and an amount borrowed and written off and to bulk the two together is not very enlightening as to how efficient a State or semi-State body may happen to be.

When he is replying, the Parliamentary Secretary may be able to tell us approximately how many boats are now in operation in Irish ports and how many are operating or have operated with the financial assistance of the board either in the present or in the past. What is even more important, perhaps he can tell us how many of these boats are capable of venturing out and engaging in deep sea fishing.

Finally, I should like to agree with the other Members of the House who spoke of the difficulty from the point of view of the general public living as someone suggested, 40 miles or more from the coast, in obtaining fresh fish. I live a lot less than 40 miles from the coast and the only time that I enjoy really fresh fish is when I or some member of my family drives out to Howth and buys the fish from the fishermen as they come in. Apart from the satisfaction of knowing that the fish is really fresh I also have the satisfaction of cutting out the middleman. The Parliamentary Secretary should endeavour to do the same.

Mrs. Farrell

First of all, I should like to welcome the Parliamentary Secretary to the House and to congratulate him on his appointment. As a land-lubber from an inland county he has a problem on his hands when dealing with fisheries. However, I have no doubt that he can go to Waterford and study everything about fishing that can be studied there.

I speak as an admiral of the Nebraskan Navy's landlocked fleet and so I am in a very unique position here this evening as I also come from a seaport town. I grew up in a town where there is a song about the fishing fleet at anchor. I remember as a young child going down with my basket for what used to be handed out then, free prawns. Now when we go to buy prawn cocktail we pay dearly for it. I am very pleased to see the advances that have been made in the fishing industry in this country since I was a child in that seaport town.

Bord Iascaigh Mhara are to be congratulated for the work they have done for the fishing industry but a lot of work needs to be done for the fishermen. Many of the Senators who spoke have mentioned the high price of fish as distinct from what the producer gets but I think this is common to all producers. We have farmers with exactly the same complaint. I believe the answer lies in the co-operative fishing ventures which are now being started but since the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries handle fisheries and are also in a way responsible for the co-operative movement of this country, the fostering of fishermen's co-operatives is something which should be engaging the active attention of the officials of the Department.

When we talk about the silver harvest of the sea and the fact that fish are there and all we have to do is go out and pick them up we are neglecting perhaps a very important facet which is that the research services are there to examine the fishing industry and make recommendations on it. We have various centres around the coast where there is a certain amount of research carried out but I feel in this respect the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries are not doing as much as they might. I understand that certain recommendations have been made about this and the actual people in the service do not approve of a number of those recommendations, that they themselves have prepared a case as to how the research service should be implemented and developed. I would recommend to the Parliamentary Secretary, if that report has not yet reached his desk, to make an effort to get a copy of it. If he cannot get it I will give it to him because it is a document which is well worth studying.

When we in this House speak about fishing we forget about the indiscriminate dumping of nuclear fall-out and we also talk about conservation. This is Conservation Year. Are we protecting the waters around our coast and conserving them? There is a large amount of dumping being done and if it is not controlled and if we are not informed of what is happening we could finish up with contaminated fish and then no matter how good you cook it it is still contaminated.

I support the Senators who say that if Bord Iascaigh Mhara are not now concerned with the marketing and processing of fish then a board should be set up to deal with this because it is, as some Senators have said, rather ludicrous to see us sending fish out of the country, not alone our eels but our herring, and seeing them come back processed. Surely this is a valuable industry where we could set up our own processing plants and export our fish processed. The continental countries bought our herring salted in barrels down through the ages. We should certainly be gone past salting the herrings and sending them out in barrels. They should be sent out in a sophisticated manner.

May I say in congratulating Bord Iascaigh Mhara for teaching the people how to use fish, that in the compliments there were two bodies forgotten? The board might dream up a scheme of promotion but unless they have the co-operation of the Irish Countrywomen's Association — I never fail to get a plug in for them when I can — and the domestic economy teachers in the schools throughout the country who worked hard to teach those children and to help those women to put on their competitions, Bord Iascaigh Mhara could be trying from now until doomsday to promote the eating of fish and they could not do it.

The Irish Countrywomen's Association have played a large part in this and I would like this placed on the records of this House. I am sure anybody who speaks to the officials in Bord Iascaigh Mhara will be told this is true. I speak now as an ICA woman. We have put on courses in our adult education colleges of a week's duration and taught the people how to cook and present fish but then we come back to our own towns and find the distribution of fish is very bad indeed.

I was reared on fish but I am now at a stage when I very seldom eat it. It is not because I do not like fish but because by the time the fish reaches us on a Thursday afternoon or Friday morning I often wonder how often it has been thawed out, frozen and thawed out again. I am afraid sometimes to eat it. We have taught our people how to cook fish. Even with the prices which are now being charged for it is still a cheap food but we cannot get it readily available and we cannot get many varieties of fish. Very often we are sold dabs for plaice. This has often happened to me. We are not always getting the product we are told it is.

Senator Sheldon made a point that the housewives were looking for more packaging and more sophisticated products and that this is why you cannot get fresh fish. I doubt this because the housewife is presented with sophisticated packaging and either she buys that or she has not anything to buy. I perhaps am an old-fashioned housekeeper in that I like to see what I am buying. Although we welcome processed food, easy-to-prepare food, we also welcome food in its natural state when we can get it. This is not always possible.

I am glad to see that money is being made available for trawlers. I was in Killybegs recently and it was heartening to see all the trawlers there. For too long we regarded the fishing industry as a Cinderella. There is no doubt that fishing could be the source of one of our greatest exports in years to come but if this is to be so we will have to get serious about it and see how many millions of pounds we can allocate to fishing. When we think of the total amount allocated to the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries, the subvention to fishing is not very big.

Mr. Mícheál Cranitch

Ar dtús ba mhait liom fáilte a chur raibh an Rúnaí Parliaiminte. Fear maith é agus sé an rud a deirfhinn ná go bhfuil súil agam go mbeidh seal fada buan aige in a phost.

It is running late and practically every aspect of the fishing industry has been dealt with. There are some points I should like to make, however. Somehow, fishing has not been very prominent in our literature, in our poetry, our songs, even though we are an island. Most islands have some wonderful fishing lore, fishing songs, fishing ballads, et cetera. Somehow we seem to be particularly bereft in this respect, in spite of the fact that we have off our coasts what one would call a silver harvest. I was glad to hear a couple of years ago, when it was decided as part of major policy to develop five of our principal fishing ports, Castletownbere, Dunmore East, Howth, Killybegs and Galway, of the wonderful development that has taken place in those places. It augurs well for those in charge of fishing development and for those who have to do the fishing.

Other fishing ports, too, have been very active, places where the tradition still lives of the naomhóg and the currach. When I think of the extraordinary feats of endurance of those in the lonely naomhóga off the Kerry coast and the curracha off the coast of Galway, I believe that, given the gear, our fishermen would rank among the best in the world.

Bord Iascaigh Mhara are to be congratulated on the work they have done since they were established in 1952. For that reason I welcome the Bill and I say that whatever money is voted towards the board by way of assistance is indeed money well spent.

There are two main points I wish to make. The first is concerned with one of the greatest dangers to us and to the fishing industry. Everybody seems to be speaking about pollution, pollution at sea as well as on our rivers and on our land, pollution from factories and big industries now situated along our coast and, one might say, on our islands. I have in mind Bantry Bay. Pollution will occur in these places to an ever increasing degree. Cognisance will have to be taken of it and the earlier the better so that if a remedy can be found it will be found in good time.

The second point is in connection with the three-mile, the six-mile and the 12-mile limits. It is a burning question at the moment. It is something that will have to be faced because we are very vulnerable. We need a number of high grade boats specially built for protection purposes and even with a good fleet of those boats — I have in mind ten, 12, 15 or maybe 20 —cruising around the coast it will be very difficult to keep an eye on those enterprising trawlermen from certain countries which I will not name. It is a matter for the Department of Defence but I suggest, and I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary will take note of it, the necessity to keep in close touch with the Department of Defence because there is little use having a silver harvest off our coast and fishermen anxious to reap it if they cannot be protected from the 20th century marauding of our fishing preserves.

Cáit Ní Eachthéirn

Níl a lán le rá agam. Ba mhaith liom i dtosach fáilte a chur roimh an Rúnaí Parlaiminte. Fear stuamach, ciallmhar é agus tá súil agam go ndéanfhaidh sé go sármhaith ina phost nua. Baineann an Bille seo leis na daoine sna báid móra, ach ba mhaith liom cupla focail a rá i dtaobh na ndaoine mbeaga, na daoine sna sráid-bhailte le hais na fairrge.

I want to make a plea for the small men. It has been said that the money being provided is for the bigger trawlers. One of the points I wish to make is that Bord Iascaigh Mhara should be asked to earmark some of the money for the provision of piers in our smaller coastal villages. It is no use having 60-footers off the Kerry coast if we have no piers for them. I compliment the board on the great work they have been doing.

I suggest that when a decision has been made as to who should get a boat the man with a fishing background should get priority. There can be men from inland who have been trained, but at the same time I think those who have fishing backgrounds, whose parents have made a living from fishing, should get priority. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will bear these points in mind.

Mr. Gallanagh

I, too, welcome Deputy Fahey and the Bill. I was reared in a fishing village in that picturesque county, Donegal, in Swilly, and as a boy I went out to the harbour in the morning when the herring boats were in. There were 60, 70, 80, sometimes 150 herring boats from Scotland, England, France, and a few from Ireland, tied up there. It was a very flourishing industry. A lot of the herrings were exported to Germany. There were local kippering stations. Two fishings a year took place, one in May and one in December. A lot of employment was given because all the fish were processed there and exported. Coopers and others concerned in the business were there. It is a sad thing to say that today if Lord Ullin's daughter came there would hardly be a man to row her over in a ferry. There is no activity except for the odd man who owns his own boat and goes out occasionally to fish.

While we are talking about fishing, fishing boats and fishery protection we must get down to fundamentals. We have not got any fishermen in this country. If we had 100 boats tomorrow I do not think we could get crews to man them. There are small men around the coast who own boats. It does not pay the fishermen to send their fish to the market except in places like Dunmore East and Killybegs. One meets local fishermen who sell their fish locally at the best price they can get.

We must do a complete survey of the fishing industry. We must have surveys of the coastal waters and of the harbours. A survey of the manpower available for those extra protection ships, if provided, must be made. Training schemes could be started in co-operation with our neighbours. If boys realised that there was a good living for them — and it would need to be a good living for them when they must spend days and nights fishing—they would become fishermen.

Fishermen used to fish on all nights except Fridays and Saturdays. They generally went off on Sundays. Men would need to be well paid for such work. People regard fishing as a pleasant pastime like fishing for salmon or fishing along the coast for pleasure. Fishing competitions and festivals are popular but they are not the things that matter. We must try to combat the fact that in this country today a great deal of fish is being imported in the form of fish-fingers. If we have to compete with a market like that we must have sturdy boats to go far out and the fish they catch must be properly processed. We must look into the other possibility of doing something about this industry and of being serious about it.

Mr. O'Sullivan

I wish to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary on his appointment. I wish him every success. I welcome this Bill. A sum of £5 million is a clear indication of the progress which has been made in our fishing industry. It is a tribute to Bord Iascaigh Mhara and their employees. They must be congratulated on the efficient manner in which they are carrying out their duties.

I come from a seaport area at Castletownbere in West Cork. I am particularly interested in the fishing industry. The greatest single step in improving our fishing industry and in making it a worthwhile one was the selection of the major fishery ports. Castletownbere has been selected as a major fishery port. I cannot remember the early 1920's but I am told it was then a port which was extensively used for mackerel and herring fishing. When the American market was withdrawn from this country that industry died. As a result of the Government decision to select major fishery ports around the coastline Castletownbere, Dunmore East, Killybegs and Howth have given the fishing industry a great and wonderful prospect. It is gratifying to go down to Castletownbere in the evening and see there a port which was dead in the 1930's and the 1940's today busy with 15 to 20 trawlers coming in and landing their catches. They have still to send the majority of the catch to Dublin to be marketed. That has always been a major problem. I feel that a marketing system can be established. At present in Castletownbere the fishermen have formed themselves into a co-operative society for the marketing of their produce. The Government have given considerable assistance by way of grants and technical advice for the establishment of auction sheds. This is a wonderful achievement. I believe the same position applies at Dunmore East. The fish from Howth naturally goes to the Dublin market.

I do not agree with the Senator who said that we do not have fishermen to man our boats. In my own town, where fishing was almost extinct, we have 15 to 20 trawlers operating from the harbour each employing five or six fishermen at very lucrative rates of pay. We are hoping that with the introduction of a fishmeal plant at Castletownbere there will be an all-round improvement for those men. During the months from November to perhaps March they have to go to the fishing grounds off Dunmore East or to west of Cork harbour and land their catches there. With the provision of a fish processing factory which is being provided with the help of State grants there will be no fears for the fishing industry in Castletownbere. The fishmeal plant will be able to cater for the entire fishing needs of the area.

The selection of the major fishery ports was the greatest single step taken to provide properly for the fishing industry. The fishermen engaged in the industry are more than satisfied and are loud in their praises of the selection and development of these ports.

There is a point which applies very much in seaboard areas and that is the shellfish industry. This is one industry which is being very badly hit at the moment. During the years it has been the practice for the small farmers to engage in shell-fishing such as lobster fishing, cray-fishing et cetera, as an extra means of helping their finances. The Department of Agriculture and Fisheries have failed to provide landing facilities. If piers and slips were erected this could be a very lucrative industry and of immense value to small farmers because it would help to raise their standard of living. I understand the Department are carrying out a survey of the whole coastline but it is taking a long time and because of the magnitude of the problem it will take a considerable time to implement the recommendations. As we have so much coastline I think the Department should allocate a specific amount of money annually to the various county councils for piers and slips.

Another industry which could be very lucrative to small farmers is salmon drift net fishing. Here again small farmers are restricted because most of our rivers and coastline are owned by absentee landlords. The Kenmare River which runs from Kenmare to the Bull Rock is owned by three absentee landlords. There are at least 250 small farmers who could benefit considerably if they were allowed to operate drift fishing nets there. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to look into this question.

In relation to fishery protection, I think it would be a good thing if a fast speed boat were to be provided at each of our major fishing harbours. We have to accept that our fishing fleet fishes out of the major harbours and a fast speed boat would be able to patrol the coastline and thereby protect our industry. I have no doubt that the development of major harbour fishery boards will mean that the fish will not have to go to Dublin and then be distributed all over the country afterwards.

Mr. Fahey

First of all I should like to thank the House sincerely for the welcome it extended me on my first visit here. Indeed, the Senators' kind words made my visit all the easier. I should also like to thank those who spoke for the constructive way they approached this Bill. I was particularly pleased to hear that all Senators were so keen to develop our fishing industry in a way I too believe it should be developed. There is a silver harvest waiting to be reaped. I believe if our fishermen are given proper equipment and proper training they will leave nothing for the foreign boats to come in and take from us. I sincerely hope we will be able to develop things so that this may become a reality.

A large number of points were raised by Senators and as it would be impossible for me to deal with all of them in any detail I shall do my best and I hope I will satisfy the House with my replies. Senator McDonald referred to the necessity for having a constant supply of fish available, especially in the midlands. I am glad to be able to tell the Senator that this is something which is being dealt with. We know it will take some time to find a complete answer to the problem but the situation where fish come to Dublin and then go down to the midlands arises because of the difficulty that the fishermen are in. The fish are their property until they are sold and as far as Bord Iascaigh Mhara are concerned they are trying to get advice across to them to try and get the fish sent directly to the best markets available.

Senator McDonald and others mentioned the imports of fish into this country. All I can say is that there is not one fishing country in western Europe, with the exception of Iceland which has a very small population, that does not import fish. When one talks about importing fish one must remember that it is not just one product but a wide range of species which are imported either during times of local shortage due to bad fishing conditions or because the particular species are not available. It is not a matter for criticism: what really matters is that we have good home and export markets for all the fish we catch. I do not agree that research is neglected. This is something which is going on all the time and is being given constant attention. The Department have two fishery research vessels and employ an inshore team to work with them.

Reference was made to the number of boats seized because of repayment problems but I should like to point out that the numbers involved are very small in proportion to the total. Of course, there will always be failures in any industry and many reasons can be given for the failures. It may be because of the crew and the skipper of a particular vessel or it may be some other reason. One cannot expect everything to be a 100 per cent success.

Senator Sheldon mentioned the orderly marketing of fish. As I have said, we are dealing with this problem, perhaps not as speedily as we would like to, but nevertheless we believe we are making good progress. Senator Sheldon also mentioned the question of ports and landing places in Donegal. He suggested that I should have a special look at that problem. I assure him I certainly will.

Senator Belton mentioned foreign vessels landing herrings at Dunmore East. I should like to point out to the Senator that no foreign fishing vessels land herrings at Dunmore East. The landings are by the Irish fleet and any foreign boats there are luggers and they are there for the purpose of transporting Irish caught fish to the continent after it is landed at Dunmore East.

Senator Belton also mentioned the question of the fishmeal factories. The Killybegs fishmeal factory has been in operation for many years and has been working at full capacity. We have no fish supply difficulties there. The Mornington fishmeal factory was opened only last year. Fish supplies there have been meagre but we hope the supplies will increase. We hope they will increase because we import fairly substantial amounts of fishmeal. I want to say too that we import eels for smoking in this country.

Dr. Belton

We import them?

Mr. Fahey

We import them. Senator Belton also asked whether we are entitled to our 12-mile fishery limit. We are, of course, legally entitled to our 12-mile fishery limit. The maintaining of this fishery limit has been a problem, I know, but I will bring the Senator's remarks to the attention of the Minister for Defence who is responsible for this end of the business.

Senator Boland referred to the accounts of Bord Iascaigh Mhara. I should like to say, for his information, that the accounts as presented to both Houses of the Oireachtas for the year ended 31st March, 1969, give the figure of the amount written off on the board's loans from the Central Fund as £403,584 and that the Fisheries Vote for the current year provides for an additional £387,000 to clear off all the bad debts on the board's books.

Senator Farrell spoke of the co-operation Bord Iascaigh Mhara have been getting from the Irish Countrywomen's Association and from the domestic economy instructresses throughout the country. I assure the Senator this is greatly appreciated by Bord Iascaigh Mhara. She also mentioned the question of dumping. This dumping is only being done under international supervision and the health authorities are also keeping the matter in check. As far as the board are concerned at present there are no fears whatever with regard to the contamination of fish.

Senator Honan mentioned the size and quality of herrings. All I can say is that this is, of course, a free economy. I suppose if the Irish price were better preference would be given to the home market. As it happens we are very small consumers of herring and so the vast bulk of herring landings go for export. Senator Honan also mentioned the size of our fishing vessels and their ability to compete with foreign vessels off our shores. All I can say is that Irish fishing vessels are gradually getting bigger, the majority of them are now 75 feet long. Taking our fishing vessels as a whole, they are on a par with other European vessels. The same applies to gear.

I hope I have covered the main points that were made. Again I want to thank Senators for the way they received me here and to say that I look forward to coming here as often as I possibly can during the next four years.

Bill put through Committee, reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.

The Seanad adjourned at 9.50 p.m. until 10 a.m. on Thursday, 4th June, 1970.

Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 3 Jun 1970