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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 26 Aug 1971

Vol. 71 No. 7

Army Pensions Bill, 1971: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I do not propose to delay the House in replying to the debate on the Bill which is a simple, straightforward one. It is designed to provide allowances for the widows of military service pensioners and Connaught Rangers pensioners. I am grateful to the Senators who have spoken on the Bill and for the welcome they have given it. The interest shown is indicative of the warm respect and goodwill that exists for the people who were involved in the War of Independence.

The general complaint was that the allowances could have been greater and I agree that it would be highly desirable to allocate higher allowances. Nevertheless, what has been given is a breakthrough and it is a worthwhile measure both in the sense of a contribution to the welfare of the widows concerned and, more important, it is a gesture of appreciation of the State to the husbands of these widows. One of the important features of this Bill is that there is no means test attached to it and the rate of allowance is one-half of the late husband's pension with a minimum allowance of £52.20 per annum. There is no veteran's widow who has not some other means and this allowance will help to supplement those means. I want to stress that this allowance will not be taken into account as means in assessments for the purpose of widows' and old age pensions.

There have been some criticisms and at this point I shall concern myself with those and with the points raised by the different speakers. Senators Russell, O'Brien, Gallanagh, Boland and O'Higgins urged that provision should be made for the widows of men who rendered military service but who, for one reason or another, did not apply under the Military Service Pension Acts or left it too late to apply. It cannot be disputed that all those people had adequate opportunity to apply for pensions. At this point it is appropriate to limit the Bill to the widows of those who are in receipt of military service pensions. There may be some good men who rendered service and for their own reasons did not apply, but at this point it would not be possible to reassemble the statutory tribunals for assessing pensions and assessing the value and length of service of the individuals concerned. It would be necessary to recreate the standards applied by the tribunals of that period and at this point, 50 years later, that would be impossible. I strongly sympathise with the point of view put forward by the Senators and I would be only too pleased to implement it if I thought it were practicable.

Senators Russell, Belton and Boland commented on the provision regarding widows who remarried. This provision applies to the proposed allowances a condition which governs the payment of allowances granted under the Army Pensions Acts to the widows of Old IRA disablement pensioners. This is not an unreasonable provision. The view is that the scheme should apply to widows only and that when widows remarry they are no longer widows, and it is not proposed to amend the scheme at this juncture.

Senators Russell, Boland, O'Higgins and Lyons raised the question of free travel for veterans' widows, and wives unaccompanied by their husbands. This is a point which has been raised many times in the past and it must be recognised that the scheme of free travel is tied to the corresponding scheme of free travel for old age pensioners. Any extension of this scheme would have to be provided for by the Minister for Finance in future Budgets.

Senator Belton wished to know where provision is made to bring military service pensions of less than £52 per year up to that amount. Some service pensions were, in fact, less than £52.20 a year and provision was made for their increase up to that figure by the Minister for Finance in this year's Budget. This also answers a point made by Senator Boland who thought there would be an anomalous position between widows getting a minimum allowance of £52.20 a year and pensioners in receipt of less than that amount. Accordingly, as from the 1st October next the lowest military service pension will be at least equal to the minimum widow's allowance.

Senators Russell, Belton and Boland were not too happy about the application forms being sent out for widows' allowances. They felt that the inquiries would be too searching and would pry into individuals' private affairs. I can assure the Senators that such is very far from being the case. The information being sought is of the minimum nature, simple information in relation to marital status, name and address, pension number of the pensioner, et cetera. There will be no investigation whatsoever into the means of the individuals concerned.

Senator Boland was concerned as to the machinery for granting future increases on the allowances to be paid under this Bill. Future Budget increases applicable to the generality of public service pensions and allowances will be applied to these widows' allowances by order to be made by the Minister for Finance under section 7 of the Army Pensions Act, 1968, so adjustments will be made at the appropriate times in the future. Concern was also expressed by Senators Boland and Owens regarding the bringing to notice of the entitled people that this particular allowance was available, that is, the tracing of qualified personnel. Every effort will be made to ensure that the scheme will be brought to the notice of the general public through Press advertisements. It is hoped to ascertain the names of entitled applicants through the examination of existing pension records in my Department; and we would also seek the co-operation of both Houses in bringing the scheme to the attention of people in their constituencies. In general, we will ensure that no stone will be left unturned to ensure that nobody is omitted.

The question of income tax on the new allowance was also raised by Senator Boland. The answer is "Yes"; the allowances will be subject to income tax the same as for other service pensions and allowances. For my part, I regret that it is not possible to exempt these allowances from income tax. Senator Boland also asked for some statistical information in regard to the amount of pensions which will be payable. He inquired as to what the maximum allowance under the new scheme will be. I can tell him that the figure is £591 a year. The cost of widows' allowances for a full year is estimated at £220,000. The estimated number of widows involved is roughly 3,300. There are 7,344 military service pensioners and 12 Connaught Ranger pensioners still alive and in receipt of pension.

Senator O'Higgins raised a technical point in regard to the terminology used in the Bill. He was rather critical of the use of "may" when "shall" might be used. This is the traditional way of drafting in the Army Pensions Acts and there is no likelihood that the Minister would refuse to grant an allowance to a widow who is eligible for it. The Senator suggested that there should be a very positive "shall", but this should not be a source of worry.

These are the main points raised by the speakers. Again, I say that the scheme is designed more as a token of recognition and appreciation of the participants of the fight for freedom of whom we are all very proud. We cannot do enough for these men and for their widows. Our existence and freedom today is due to the heroic men who put their lives on the line in that period. I can assure the House that for the future my attention and interest will be directed at improving the lot of the diminishing and dwindling number of survivors, both men and their wives.

I should like to thank the Minister for his very detailed reply to the debate.

Question put and agreed to.
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