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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Jul 1972

Vol. 73 No. 6

Restrictive Trade Practices (Confirmation of Order) Bill, 1972: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The purpose of this Bill is to confirm an order which I have made under the Restrictive Trade Practices Act, 1953, on the recommendation of the Fair Trade Commission relating to the supply and distribution of motor spirit.

The commission's recommendation is contained in their report of a public inquiry which my predecessor requested following representations made to him by the Irish Motor Traders' Association (now the Society of the Irish Motor Industry) who wished to have restrictions applied to growth in numbers of motor spirit retail outlets.

A previous inquiry relating to motor spirit was carried out by the commission in 1961. That inquiry was mainly concerned with the solus system—the system under which a retailer undertakes to handle one brand of motor spirit exclusively. It was found that the system had certain advantages but that it should be subject to regulation because it encouraged an excessive increase in the number of outlets. The then Minister for Industry and Commerce made an order in 1961 designed to regulate the system and the following year the commission agreed certain guiding principles with the petrol companies with the object of limiting the increase in number of retail outlets.

The report of the recent inquiry states that the pattern of supply and distribution of motor spirit has not changed significantly since 1961. There are at present six companies supplying the market; only one of these is wholly in Irish control. The three largest companies—Esso, Shell and Texaco—are subsidiaries of the companies which formed the consortium operating the Whitegate refinery; two others buy their requirements from these three and the sixth imports motor spirit.

One trade association—The Society of the Irish Motor Industry—caters inter alia for the retail motor trade, including petrol retailing. The society has two classes of members—wholesalers and retailers. Distribution of motor spirit has become more efficient since 1961 by reason of such developments as increased tanker sizes, reduction of number of depots, round-the-clock operation of road tanker fleets and assistance to dealers to enable them to increase storage capacity, with the result that prices, exclusive of duty, are virtually unchanged.

Altogether 25 witnesses were examined in the course of the inquiry. They included representatives of the Society of the Irish Motor Industry, the petrol companies, motor spirit retailers, the Private Motorists Protection Association, various public bodies and the Department of Local Government. Growing control by the petrol companies of the retail trade through ownership of outlets is the salient fact to emerge from the inquiry. While the total number of dealer outlets seemed to have stabilised itself between 1962 and the time of the inquiry in 1970, and to that extent the guiding principles which had been agreed with the petrol companies had been successful, the number of company-owned retail outlets had been increasing unduly and the proportion of total sales of motor spirit through these outlets had increased from 16 per cent to 31.1 per cent.

The commission felt that if this trend were to continue unchecked the petrol companies would be likely to secure substantial control over retail distribution in the foreseeable future. Such control would introduce a degree of rigidity into the market which would be likely progressively to reduce competitive pressures and which would lend itself more readily to restrictive practices such as market sharing and pricing arrangements. They considered, therefore, that the exigencies of the common good demanded that for a limited period these companies should neither purchase nor construct additional company-owned outlets. They recommended that all the petrol companies be invited to observer this pause on a voluntary basis on the understanding that it would apply to newcomers as well as to existing companies but if they were not prepared to do this the pause should be statutorily imposed. They also recommended that the maximum period of five years allowed for solus agreements under the 1961 Order should be increased to ten years because the five year limitation had proved self defeating in shifting the interest of the petrol companies away from dealers to the development of company-owned outlets.

Additional recommendations were that the 1961 Order should be amended to prohibit any differentiation in the terms and conditions of supply of motor spirit between company-owned outlets and independent retailers; to extend the present obligation on the petrol companies to furnish information in respect of their own outlets to include information on facilities afforded to independent retailers; and to modify the existing prohibition on price discrimination to allow a surcharge to be made by petrol companies to retailers in respect of deliveries below a specified minimum size.

I accepted the recommendations of the commission and invited the petrol companies to observe a voluntary pause in the construction and acquisition of company-owned stations. Some of the companies were not prepared to do this, however, as they felt that statutory control would be more effective and more equitable. I, therefore, decided to make an order to give effect to the commission's recommendations and I informed the petrol companies accordingly.

Subsequently these companies made representations to me about certain provisions of the proposed order. They asked for exemption from the prohibition on the construction or acquisition of new company-owned stations in certain cases where their arrangements had reached such an advanced stage that withdrawal would result in severe financial loss not only for them but also for independent dealers and other private interests who were involved. I felt that in cases involving the construction of new stations the companies should be given a reasonable opportunity of completing their arrangements and I decided, therefore, that in such cases the order should not come into operation for four weeks after it was made.

I was also asked to provide exemption where a company might dispose of a station and open up one in its place in another location, on the grounds that arrangements of this kind would not result in any increase in the overall number of company stations. I was not disposed to accede to this request but I decided that exemption would be justified in any case where a station was opened up in place of one which had been compulsorily acquired by a local authority or bypassed by a new road, provided the new station was in the same locality. Objections were also made to the proposal to allow petrol companies to levy a surcharge on deliveries below a specified minimum size on the grounds that such a surcharge would bear unfairly on remote areas of the country where the majority of dealers who take only small deliveries at a time are located. I mentioned earlier in my speech that distribution of motor spirit had become more efficient in the last ten years. One of the measures adopted by some of the companies in their efforts to achieve this efficiency was the withdrawal of supplies from retail outlets in certain cases where orders were so small as to make delivery uneconomic.

I felt that while the sale of motor spirit might not provide any substantial income to operators of small outlets, particularly in remote areas, nevertheless, an outlet attached to a shop, hotel or public house, was a convenience for customers and it would be a good thing if the petrol companies could be induced to continue or to recommence supplying such outlets. The surcharge recommended by the commission would, it seemed to me, provide such an inducement and I decided, therefore, that it would, on balance, be unjustifiable that distributors should be prohibited by law from applying it, and the order provides accordingly.

Representations were also made to me that newcomers to the petrol distributing trade would have no chance of getting a share of the market if they were precluded from constructing or otherwise acquiring company-owned outlets. While I was not too happy with the situation where the scope for newcomers to enter the market was restricted I felt, nevertheless, that to allow them to develop company-owned outlets while prohibiting existing companies from doing likewise might constitute discrimination. I also felt that newcomers could obtain a foothold in the market without necessarily constructing company stations or acquiring existing dealer stations. For instance, a new company could buy sites for sale to dealers and could finance the construction of stations on those sites by dealers in return for ten-year solus agreements, or dealers could be induced to sign solus agreements with a new company when their existing solus agreements with other companies came to an end. In any event, if it were found at a later stage that a new company could not enter the market because of the order the position could be reviewed.

In all the circumstances, I decided that the order should apply both to existing companies and any new companies that might enter the market. On 15th June, 1972. I made the Restrictive Trade Practices (Motor Spirit) Order, 1972, giving effect to the Fair Trade Commission's recommendations with the modifications I have already mentioned. The prohibition under the order of the opening of new company-owned stations will remain in force for a period of three years and it is my intention to ask the commission to review the position before the end of that period.

Orders of this kind do not have the force of law unless they are confirmed by Act of the Oireachtas. The Bill now before the Dáil is the confirming Bill which is necessary to give the force of law to the order concerned. With a Bill of this kind, the order which it is proposed to confirm may not be amended by the Oireachtas but must be accepted or rejected as it stands. The matters with which the order deals have been the subject of a detailed public inquiry by the Fair Trade Commission, and their report which was presented to this House sets out the arguments in favour of adopting the provisions embodied in the order.

The Bill has already been welcomed in the Dáil and I can recommend it to the Seanad without reservation.

I have very little to say on this Bill. I take the opportunity to pay tribute to the very distinguished public servant, Mr. John Walsh, who was Chairman of the Fair Trade Commission and who addressed the Minister with this report. The public really do not know how much they owe him and his like, who think in terms of the country's good, without regard to party or any other favour. In saying that I think I am echoing the views of others in this House.

I have read this report and, along with earlier reports of the commission, it has the mark of quality which particularly distinguishes it. It gives me hope that, in so far as this field will be left to the Fair Trade Commission in the European Economic Community, it will be a well-conducted and administered field. It is a matter that ought to have been dealt with earlier, and it should not have taken 13 months to get to this House. The Minister made his order 12 months later. I do not think that private citizens would have been allowed such a long time in which to do their business. This is a very comprehensive and excellent report on a very important matter and it is agreed that it must be considered, but should it need such consideration? If injustice was being done, if inefficiency was there, it has been corrected—but it has been tolerated for longer than it ought to have been.

Taking any view of modern life, the whole operation of the sale of motor spirits is important. In Irish circumstances, apart from the convenience of life for all of us, our second biggest industry—the tourist industry—is involved and one cannot overrate its importance. I think that the Minister's recommendations are good and it is right that he should make this order. The object here is clearly to maintain the advantage which the Minister in his speech has properly drawn attention to. It is to be recognised as a point in favour of what has been going on without control. Petrol prices, exclusive of tax, have remained unchanged since 1962. This is a remarkable thing and is a sign that the system is working very well. It is running against the whole trend of petrol prices.

While what the Minister's order proposes to enact is right, we ought to look at one aspect that did not appear to be covered by the commission's report. Through recognising the works of the company-operated stations, are we creating something similar to a publican's licence? Are we conferring a value on the interests of the half-dozen companies mentioned in the Minister's speech? Through time, these interests will be there to their advantage and will be paid for effectively, as the price of a pub is paid for by the people who drink in it. The price of the petrol station will be paid for in the price of the petrol. I raise that question in a rather uninformed way.

I should like to refer to one or two other points. One related to the order itself. I think this is a wholly admirable procedure which we have under the Restrictive Trade Practices Act, 1953, whereby we have the report of the commission, and then an order. The order does not take the form of law until it is enacted. I should like to ask the Minister if there is any precedent for it in Irish legislation. There may be an answer that occurs immediately. If it does not, that is all right.

Before I make my point on the order, I would be personally interested to know so that my file entitled "Fair Trade Commission" containing all the reports would be brought up to date. Is it possible for somebody to tell me how many reports have been published and how many orders have been made? I notice that this one is not numbered: it is just given the ordinary Statutory Instrument number, but it is not numbered as a series under the Act itself.

I think I shall shortly shut up and end with this point, which worries me a little, regarding the intention of the order. The definition of a company station will be very easy to get out of. A company station means a motor spirits station that is wholly or partly occupied by, or on behalf of, or by a person holding it, or the site upon which it is built, as tenant, lessee, licensee or in any other capacity, from a supplier, and so on. I agree that we have a special definition for a holding company and a subsidiary, so that they take in cases where they are only one-fifth shareholders. You could have a supplier, the shares in which were not held at all by the petrol company, but which were beneficially held by someone who was given a straight salary, being a preference dividend for holding them, and whose profits were under a contract to another company siphoned off to the real supplier, who would not be a supplier for the purposes of the company operating definition. The shares of the company would be subject to a voting contract which would require the shareholder to vote in accordance with and subject to the bidding of the ultimate petrol company. We are baring our teeth and we do not have enough teeth. If we know what we are talking about when we speak of these whales, we really must have a lot of teeth. If you really want to control the petrol companies, you have got to get very precise and exacting legislation to deal with them. We are talking about some of the most powerful capitalist operators in the whole business. In the definitions here, I am assuming that the intention is desirable to realise and achieve this and to put these controls on. You have got to go further if you are definitely going to make them effective.

I would like to welcome the order and refer to one particular aspect of it. The Minister referred to deliveries to rural areas which would not be economic. It is important from a social and tourist point of view in the outline areas where there are small outlets. Perhaps those attached, as the Minister has said, to shops, hotels or public houses, should be supplied. I would be interested to learn from the Minister whether the surcharge, to which he refers, can be determined by him or by the suppliers. This would be an important aspect. Occasionally one comes across a situation in a rural area where you stop for petrol and are told: "The tanker did not arrive yet." It is important from that aspect that the Minister should be satisfied that these outlets will be supplied. The Minister should be the decider with regard to the level of a surcharge in this area.

I would like to welcome this Bill. Between 1962 and the time of the inquiry in 1970, the companies increased their ownership of the retail outlets from 16 per cent to 31.1 per cent, which means that the six companies which are referred to in the Minister's introductory speech, control practically one-third of the petrol retail outlets in this country. Are we reaching the stage where it will be almost impossible for a private individual to be allowed open a filling station in any part of the country. I know that the Department of Local Government enter into this because you have to get planning permission. We know that for a number of years big deals were done in areas where petrol companies came to people who had suitable sites to open up filling stations. They were given big prices for sites and big concessions to get in on that particular location and open filling stations. There is great difficulty in getting planning permission to open filling stations especially on arterial roads. In my county it is an impossibility. We could agree that the main roads are self-sufficient as far as retail filling stations are concerned.

It appears that if there is to be any increase in the number of filling stations they will only be on county roads. I cannot see any great rush by the petrol companies or private individuals to open up retail outlets on county roads because there is neither the traffic nor the demand for petrol on those roads that you are likely to get on the arterial roads.

Senator Brugha mentioned the surcharge. While none of us like discrimination, the Minister was wise in acceding to that request to ensure that retailers in uneconomic parts of the country could be assured of having their demands for petrol catered for. I do not know if it is in operation yet, but in the past if you went outside the Dublin zone you paid 1d per gallon more for petrol. I presume that they were operating the surcharge at that time and it might be no harm if the Minister kept an eye on what the surcharge was likely to be. The retailer was then passing it on to the motorist. I presume that this surcharge may be passed on in the same way. I welcome the Bill. The fact that we will have to stabilise the retail outlets at their present number, means they will become, like the public house licences, very valuable indeed.

I, too, would like to welcome this Bill. With this sudden increase over a few years from 16 per cent to 31 per cent, where companies controlled the outlets, it was significant that they would take complete control of them. I would like the Minister to keep an eye on it because at present if a person wants to open a filling station the company comes completely behind him. They make out the drawing, tell him the amount of money he can have and the facilities they will give him. It would not take much more for them to actually take control of it, possibly under a different name than the wholly-owned ones. In that respect I would like to see a certain check being kept on the private sites. The Department of Local Government will have a certain amount of control, with regard to the opening up of new filling stations, because planning permission is very hard to get. With so many different variations of petrol, the companies should put up the octane rating on each pump. I feel that there is often a little bit of blending by the man who wants to keep his price 1p per gallon lower than the fellow at the other end of the town.

I welcome this order. It is doing some important things, but I feel it should have gone further. Before I discuss the extensions which I feel should have been made, I would like, with Senator FitzGerald, to compliment the people who produced the Fair Trade Commission reports. As a public representative, I get numerous reports through the post. I do not read all of them but those I do read impress me very much. Public servants, not necessarily civil servants, are putting in a great deal of time and are doing a most important job in producing these reports. It is well worth implementing as it is implemented in the order before us.

There are at present six companies supplying the market. Only one of these is wholly in Irish control. This is a natural situation in that there is no petrol to be found in this country as a mineral, so we must buy our petrol from overseas. As the Minister has stated, the large companies are subsidiaries of companies which are part of international companies. The refining for Esso, Shell and Texaco is done in Whitegate so some of the operation of bringing the petrol into a form in which it can be supplied to the motorist is carried out in this country.

It is a worrying feature in a situation like this that the companies outside Irish control during a crisis or an international situation in which the Middle East is closed down as far as petrol supplies are concerned, or if we do not get petrol from America, Ireland will come off worst of all the countries who are being supplied by such international consortia.

The number of company-owned retail outlets has been increasing and the proportion has gone from 16 per cent to 31 per cent. This does not deal with the wholesale outlets but these petrol companies would not be in the business unless it was paying them and clearly they are making more money by increasing the retail outlets and they are getting more control over the trade in this country. This is a bad thing and I, therefore, support the broad principle outlined in this order.

When a company of the size of those mentioned here is in the business which we are discussing, they are in it to make money. We must apply controls before we let a company, especially one which is foreign-based, make considerable sums of money at our expense. We must apply the controls which are necessary to make this country one which we can live in. The extent to which the motorcar is dominating the human being worries me.

The Minister stated in his speech that the companies were recommended to observe a pause on a voluntary basis. The capitalist system being what it is, the chances of companies observing pauses on a voluntary basis is fairly small and the Minister states that some of the companies were not prepared to do this as they felt that statutory control would be more effective and equitable.

I wonder what is behind a statement such as this. There must be a fair amount of bargaining and discussion but in many of these cases, statutory control will be required before commercial enterprises conform to the standards which we require and which we will continue to require. It is one of the sad but salutary facts of life. We should not be slow in making orders such as this to control commercial enterprises which are there with one aim in view and which do not take any of the other facts into consideration which the average citizen might take.

One of these facts is the contribution to pollution which motor spirit makes through exhaust fumes. I spent a year in Los Angeles, California, and one of the sad things about society there was that whenever you came over the hill into the city of Los Angeles, it was covered by a black-brown cloud which was pollution, a great deal of which came from motor fumes. I noticed coming into Dublin Bay recently, a similar black cloud hanging over the city. Much of this pollution can be avoided if control of the quality and type of spirits supplied is exercised rigorously. This control should be statutory. We must face this as we become more mechanised and more industrialised.

May I interrupt the Senator for a moment. I do not think that controls of this kind could be brought in under the Restrictive Trade Practices Acts. We are dealing with trade practices and not with the quality of petrol and so on.

Surely the quality of the spirits is one of the things covered.

No, that could relate to a variety of other Acts but this Bill is severely limited to restrictive trade practices. Practices, not quality.

I can see that restrictive trade practices is a narrow subject but restrictive trade practices could take into account the actual quality. Senator Crinion mentioned the octane of the petrol supply. This is following the same sort of line. The quality of the petrol is very important.

If certain qualities were restricted to certain people it would be relevant, but the overall sale of petrol does not come under this.

Surely the Cathaoirleach would agree that the highest standards of quality should be applied to everybody.

There are many things the Chair would agree with, but that does not make them relevant under this Bill.

I will move from this point. Senator Fitzgerald mentioned the situation regarding the setting up of petrol pumps. This is becoming similar to that requiring a licence to sell alcohol. The quality there is tightly controlled and the Minister should do whatever he can to control the quality of the petrol we buy. The number of outlets which belong to the large wholesale companies should be restricted. It is not a good thing if they obtain control of all the outlets. The number they have is too high at the moment.

I agree with other Senators in their support of the Minister to disallow levies on petrol supplied in remote areas. The petrol companies are making large profits. A great deal of the money is going abroad and the least we can do in setting our standards and putting on our controls is to ensure that petrol is supplied to the retailers and to the public at a uniform price no matter what the size of the outlet or in what part of the country it is situated. That is tremendously important. It is another step in ensuring that the remote areas in the south, west or north-west are not discriminated against by commercial enterprises whose sole aim is to make a profit.

If we have a system in which we are dealing with such commercial enterprises we have got to be prepared to put statutory controls on them.

I welcome this order. The Minister could have gone further. We will need to face up to the fact that if we are to construct a reasonable society for the majority of the citizens we will need controls of this nature. We will need to examine very carefully the recommendations of the Fair Trade Commission. I welcome this effort which the Minister has made to get some uniformity and to enforce some semblance of order and fairness into the situation as far as petrol outlets are concerned.

Very briefly I should like to welcome the Bill and the aim behind it in preventing this extension of the danger of monopoly. The fact that the growth has doubled from 16 to 30 per cent in eight years is highly significant. I am not happy about the position of levy. The Minister has made the case that firms have cut off supplies to those areas on the grounds that they were uneconomic. I hope that the Minister will aid the development of co-operative buying between private retailers. This could give them a buying power that would be helpful. I hope none of the restrictions imposed on take-overs or the erection of new stations will in any way inhibit the co-operative development or running of retail outlets such as has been done by the grocery and allied trades as their answer to the influx of monopolies.

It is very opportune to restrict the development of new stations. This has to be paid for in the long-term by the community largely by forcing some of their competitors to close or reducing their sales in the neighbouring areas. I hope this principle can be applied in other fields by the Minister. Large stores can only prosper and make money if they succeed in putting many existing establishments, that are doing a good job but cannot withstand the competition of the modern chain store, out of business. The chain store wins and eventually the consumer has to pay for it.

We should keep a close look at motor spirits. The rate of increase there must average at least 7 or 8 per cent per annum which means a doubling over ten years. It is a region where a detailed cost benefit analysis on a regional basis can be done. The Minister could invoke his powers here. The 30 per cent monopoly is held by the three large companies who are themselves subsidiaries of the consortium. In the days ahead with so many amalgamations taking place are we going to find that those three companies have amalgamated into one company? Then we would have one company controlling the total.

Under EEC conditions I understand that importers of motor spirits will be allowed equal competition facilities with those produced at home. I hope that the home-produced petrol will keep its hold on the market. The Whitegate refinery is making a significant contribution in giving employment. While we want to keep monopolies in their place, on the other hand, we also want to get the benefits which such large-scale operations can confer. We cannot afford two oil refineries. With these reservations I welcome the order and hope the Minister will implement it to ensure that co-operation between those outside the group that he seeks to control is encouraged.

I should like to ask the Minister if there is anything in this order which will restrict a private individual from applying for an agency and setting up a petrol filling station. There would seem to be a sufficient number of stations throughout the country. Where there are too many of them, the tendency is that they are reluctant to give service late at night. I would like to see the Minister taking a special interest in the other kinds of propellants such as gas or electricity in an effort to encourage clean air and a clean environment. While it does not come under this Bill it is something we should strive for. With those few words, I welcome the order.

This Bill was welcomed in the Dáil and in general it has been welcomed in the Seanad. Some questions were raised with which I am quite happy to deal. There may have been some misconceptions and I should like to start with those. Senator Jack Fitzgerald and Senator McDonald raised the question as to whether or not this prevented private filling stations from being created. It does not. It specifically spells out and prevents, for a three year period, the erection of company-owned filling stations and the taking over of a privately-owned filling station by a company. As I said in my opening remarks, the report forwarded to me by the Fair Trade Commission indicated that there had been an increase from 16 to 31.1 per cent in the through-put of petrol in private-owned filling stations and that this had arisen possibly on the one hand by reason of the fact that it was more attractive from the company's point of view and on the other hand that the five-year Solus term was not adequate. That is why it is extended from five to ten years.

Senator West, unfortunately, complimented me on bringing in an order to do something which is the opposite of the intention of the order. There were a few remarks on this and it might be as well for me to clear these up.

Senator Alexis FitzGerald noted that I had said in my opening remarks that, arising from the more efficient distribution methods operated by the petrol distributors which in its own way cut down overheads to a great extent, the wholesale price of motor spirit in December, 1970, was virtually at the same level as that which obtained in 1962. This has been brought about by more efficient distribution. Part and parcel of this distribution operation was a decision by the companies to limit the drop. I do not know what the figure is, but I think it is 1,000 gallons. This brought about the type of situation of the small operator anywhere—with a capacity, maybe, for only 500 gallons in his tank—being told by the company, "I am afraid we cannot supply you with petrol unless you put in a 1,000-gallon tank." In order to enable that type of person to be supplied now, or to enable the companies to go back to him again and say "Now we can give you 500 gallons, but you must pay an extra ½p per gallon," the order provides for an additional exception which permits wholesalers to make a surcharge to retailers in the case of any single delivery.

The manner in which I have presented it may have given the impression that it was a straightforward single price; and, with this exception, it is a single price throughout the country. The price of petrol from wholesaler to dealer is the same price across the board.

Senator Quinlan asked could we get over this by allowing a sort of a co-operative movement. I am thinking of the danger we had in the retail distribution field where the big fellow moves in and pushes out the small fellow. It would be ideal if in the normal run of consumer items we could have the type of arrangement where there is a straightforward flat price across the country, where the wholesaler and supplier can sell everything at one price, and then we would not have this divergence of prices achieved through the bulk purchasing the big fellow is able to do as against the small fellow. I do not think that would work in the normal run of manufacturing industry.

In this petrol field we have the situation whereby the man in the far end of Donegal or in Kerry can buy his petrol at exactly the same price as the man in Dublin. This is an ideal arrangement and it is operated in the most efficient manner by the much maligned wholesaler or distributor at a more economic level than he was doing it way back in 1962. This is a tribute to the overall general efficiency of this company.

Senator Jack Fitzgerald and Senator McDonald made a few remarks which I would like to comment on. It would be very wrong if the impression were created through publicity given to this Bill that as from today no further petrol filling stations can be erected. This is not so. Certainly no more petrol filling stations for the next three years can be erected or taken over by companies.

Senator Alexis FitzGerald was rather worried about the definition of a company station. He mentioned that, if he had a criticism to make on the Bill, it was the fact of its being so late in being introduced. One of the contributing factors to this was my endeavour to ensure that the parliamentary draftsmen would try to make as wide as possible a definition of a company station in order to avoid the loopholes the Senator mentioned.

The delay in introducing legislation was anticipated by the chairman so justifiably complimented by the Senator.

The report, at paragraph 158, page 56, says:

In the event that the pause is a voluntary one, we recommend that it should apply for a term of two years from the date of publication and the report of the inquiry. If the pause has to be imposed on a statutory basis, this would involve a certain delay in its implementation which would afford an opportunity to petrol companies to purchase or build additional outlets.

This was anticipated by them, and it goes on to recommend a voluntary basis of two years, a statutory basis of three years, in order to make up for any damage that would be done arising from the negotiations that would have had to be put in train.

In the Dáil allegations were made about some companies that had "jumped the gun" in this regard and seemed to have got some inside information that this order was going to be made. All the petrol companies would have had the fullest information about this because the report was placed before the House and became general property.

The officials of my Department and myself made the effort to try and arrange this voluntary standstill. Somebody questioned the reasons why the petrol companies were not willing to enter the voluntary agreement. They were fearful of the fact that any new company would not feel tied to the voluntary arrangement to which they would not have to subscribe. They would be more certain of success if it became a statutory restraint.

Senator Alexis FitzGerald wanted to know if we were applying a value on a company-owned station and the possibility of it becoming as valuable as a licensed premises. If there is no restriction against the private individual, apart from the planning restrictions, from within my Department to erecting a petrol filling station, the question of the company-owned station becoming valuable does not arise. We have not had any occasions yet where the companies have been endeavouring to sell their sites. They need somebody to operate their station and, depending on their turnover, the manager is paid a figure based on that amount.

Senator Alexis FitzGerald also wanted to know how many orders there had been. There have been 15 orders. Two of these 15 orders were amendment orders. It is quite possible something may have been wrong with the original order and an amendment order was introduced subsequently. Effectively then, there would have been 13 orders arising from a fair trade investigation.

Senator Alexis FitzGerald wanted to know—in relation to Article 4— if we were baring our teeth and it might transpire that we had not enough teeth. My understanding of the definition of company station is such that I feel we have teeth to bare in this regard.

Senator Ruairí Brugha realised that the surcharge on petrol in isolated areas might have the effect of people not getting petrol. He quoted the case of calling to the petrol station in the country and being told that the tanker did not arrive.

I did not mean that. I meant that it was justifying the surcharge so that there would be petrol.

There is the problem where, if the tank holds only 1,000 gallons and the minimum drop is 1,000 gallons, there will be a gap between the time when the person empties the tank and the refill arrives. The only solution to that is to get planning permission to put in another tank.

Can the Minister determine the level of the surcharge?

As set out in the order, it must be reasonable—provided that the surcharge is reasonable and justifiable, having regard to the cost of such deliveries. Under the Prices Bill, which I hope to get through the House next week, I would have the power arising from any recommendations made to me by the National Prices Commission in this regard.

Will the Minister be informed of this?

One gets it one way or the other. Senator Crinion mentioned the point—also referred to by Senator West—of the obligation of indicating the octane value on each pump. I have not power at the present time to enforce this requirement. I hope to have the power in the future for this type of requirement under the consumer protection legislation which I am preparing at the moment. The problem of pollution might be a matter for another Minister.

It is a problem for all of us.

Collective responsibility, let us say.

The question of future supplies was also referred to but this is the immediate problem of the Minister for Transport and Power.

I have endeavoured to deal with all of the matters raised. Generally, this Bill has been welcomed and I appreciate the constructive comments made.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take the remaining Stages today.
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