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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Jun 1974

Vol. 78 No. 8

Adjournment Debate: Dublin Taxi Service.

I want to raise a problem which is so well known to the citizens of Dublin that it does not need much background, and that is the problem of a shortage of taxis in the city of Dublin. I am not raising it because it has been brought home to the public during the bus strike. This is a perennial problem which has been with us for a certain time. After 11.30 every evening it is as if there were no bus strike. People who do not have their own private cars, such as myself, and who wish to travel any distance in the city experience considerable difficulty in getting taxis either by going to a rank or by ringing one of the radio cab phones.

I should like to emphasise to the Minister the general disquiet at the difficulty in obtaining taxis. This hits one section of the community more than the others. The section of the community it hits are the poorer people—the people who do not own cars and particularly those people who work late in the city and who finish their occupations after 11.30 p.m. when the buses have ceased, if they are running normally —people such as waitresses, hotel porters, barmen and the staff in Leinster House. Every night we sit until 10 o'clock they do not get off until 11 o'clock. I was talking to one of the staff this afternoon who said that sometimes they had to wait for an hour or an hour and a half to get a taxi home. Where there is a shortage of a commodity, the worse off section of the community are those who are made to feel this shortage the most. Members of the Oireachtas probably drive in and out to Leinster House so they will not be faced with this.

This situation is to some extent attributable to the Minister for Local Government and his Department because he has some power to make regulations which would regularise the taxi service in the city. Another group of people who suffer considerably from taxi shortage are tourists. Tourists come to Ireland generally without their own cars: only a very small proportion of our tourists bring cars with them. They arrive, stay in the hotels and to move around they generally use taxis. There are frequent complaints from tourists and indeed from the people in hotels who have to obtatin taxis for them and who get the brunt of their complaints. Therefore, the shortage of taxis in the city of Dublin has a very unfortunate effect on our tourist trade. I have met a number of visitors here who say they are not prepared to come back and certainly not stay in the city of Dublin if the taxi situation does not improve because it has such an inhibiting effect on their movements.

I have travelled a certain amount myself in other European cities and cities in North America and I would say that our taxi service ranks among the worst in any of the major cities I know. Not only are the taxis difficult to obtain but they are also not uniform in their standard of condition of the vehicle, the cleanliness of the vehicle. Generally there is a lack of uniformity, there is a lack of standardisation and there is a lack of service. There is too much of a lackadaisical attitude about our taximen and I feel that anything that could be done by means of public pressure, by means of complaints, by means of action by the Minister to regularise the situation, to improve the standards and the availability of the cars or, in fact, the standards of the cars themselves, the general cleanliness, the general spirit in which the taximen operate, would be worth doing.

Under section 82 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961, the Minister for Local Government is empowered to make regulations governing the basic running of the taxi service. At present in Dublin all taxis are driver owned. In other words, the driver owns the taxis and then a central service is provided—a radio control is provided which people can ring and the radio control contacts the taxi in the area and send it out to the specific address. All but one of the radio control companies are co-ops, in other words, operated by the taximen themselves. Some years ago there were a number of privately owned firms but they have all left the business and the taxi owners, the co-ops, run the radio control in all except one case.

My contention is that, as governed by regulations made by the Minister for Local Government, the situation has been made too favourable to taximen and, as a result of the lack of competition and of the deterioration in standard owing to taximen only taking the road at certain times when is suits them, the service has declined. The provision of taxis in the city is an important facility. Like the position of hotel staff, taximen cannot just expect to work the present popular hours and not to be available at other times of the day, particularly the early morning. There must be some availability if we are to have a service.

The Minister has power to grant licences. He regulates the granting of licences to taximen. There are two licences. You must have a public service licence to drive the vehicle and then the vehicle itself must be licenced. The issuing of these licences is governed by regulations which are made by the Minister under the Road Traffic Act, 1961. Prior to 1970, applications for taxi licences could be made at any time of the year and in Statutory Instrument 138, 1970, applications for a taxi licence could be made only four times in the year, once in each quarter. In Statutory Instrument 225, 1973, this was restricted to the period of one fortnight in the year. This was done by the present Minister for Local Government and it has meant that it is not as easy to get a licence as it was before—the period for licensing is restricted. Certain other regulations have been made. Applicants who have not held licences before have to pay a considerably larger fee —something like £30 as compared to £3 which is the fee for people who have held licences for a number of years. New applicants for taxi licences must have cars of less than two years of age. There is some point in the final regulation because it is an attempt to improve the standard of the car that is being used, but the effect of these Statutory Instruments and the effect of the limitation on the time at which licences can be applied for has been a decrease in the number of applicants and consolidation of a system which is already inefficient.

One of the ways of rectifying the taxi situation in Dublin is to open it more to private enterprise rather than closing it down. I do not wish to see a change away from the private enterprise system that operates in Dublin, but if one is to have private enterprise why not have the benefits of private enterprise? Private enterprise produces efficient taxi systems in other cities. Why cannot it do the same here? The private enterprise system will be governed by the Minister for Local Government. He is going to make the regulations which will control the system and there is no reason why the regulations under which taximen operate should not be stiffer. For example there could be staggered periods. There is no reason to grant a completely open licence for operation. Taximen could use a sticker and they could operate, say, staggered hours from midnight to 8 p.m. on certain days, from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. on other days, 4 p.m. to midnight on other days of the week. By working a rota system like this and insisting that taxi drivers work certain unpopular hours it would help to cover the hours at which it is difficult to obtain taxis. This sticker system is used successfully in other cities. There is also the familiar scene in other cities where taxis have either a standard appearance or a standard colour.

One of the problems facing the Minister and his Department in attempting to make regulations governing our taxis is that persons take out a taxi licence, operate for a short time and then drop out. Licences could be made more easy to obtain and could be more readily available, provided certain minimum standards were met and if there was some way of ensuring that the people who operated taxis were full-time taximen. For example, one could either say: "O.K., if you are going to operate taxis you must paint your car a specific colour," such as yellow in New York. This has several advantages. It makes it easier for the people who are trying to pick up taxis in the street. The yellow cab can be picked out a long distance from the intending hire passenger.

In London there is the special type of car which is used as a taxi. It has another advantage in that it is driven on cheaper fuel, as it is a diesel burning vehicle rather than petrol. The diesel fuel means that taxi prices are lower than they would be if the car were running on petrol fuel. There is also more mileage. There is an advantage in having this standardised type of cab and there should be no objection to paying a reasonable fare. The fares are set by regulation. The service should be reasonably available. I am not stating that if one goes out at 4 o'clock in the morning and calls for a taxi that one should immediately appear, but in a capital city such as Dublin and which has a large number of visitors we should be able to lay on a 24-hour taxi service.

It is illegal for a taximan to pick up more than one fare on the same journey if the first fare does not wish. He is not permitted to charge two people the same fare for going the same distance. It is being done consistently right across the board. Four people get into a taxi, they are all charged the same fare, and this is illegal as the law stands. There is no reason why a taximan should not be entitled to charge people a fare and split it over the whole cost. Fares can only be raised if we are getting a proper service. The Minister has it in his power to make regulations. He makes regulations as regards the handing out of licences. That is the crucial matter, and our taxi service is far below standard. It would be worth opening the system more to private enterprise and allowing more taxis on to the street provided the minimum restrictions were observed. Then we might provide a better service than the present poor one.

Although Senator West stated the present bus strike did not influence him in putting down this motion, subconsciously I feel this is the reason why it was put down. At the present time people who never use a taxi feel there should be taxis waiting for them every time they want one. Senator West wants to have it both ways. I will attempt to show this in the few minutes I have at my disposal. I am amused at the fellow who comes out of a house anywhere in this city at 3 o'clock in the morning, maybe once a month, puts up his hand and then complains when a taxi does not appear in five minutes. There are a few people like Senator West who complain about the bad taxi service here as compared with the other cities which he has visited.

The Minister must be using a State car all the time.

I have been using one for the past 18 months. Before that I used my own car and before that I used the bus because I could not afford to use a taxi. I am surprised that Senator West does not know that working people do not as a rule use a taxi because they cannot afford them. They will only use a taxi late at night. I would be interested if Senator West would let me know the person in this House who was working late and had to wait an hour and a half for a taxi. This kind of complaint made by one working man against another working man is most unfair. Senator West stated I had power to make regulations governing the operation of taxis. I have no such power. I can make regulations governing the standards but not governing the operation.

The granting of licences.

Let me explain it. The licensing period has not reduced the number of taxis—the number of new entrants is as many as before, when it scattered over the year. The difference is that people coming in now stay in the business. Before, a person could come in, pick the cream of the business for a couple of months and get out again and the people who were trying to make a living out of it were left without their living for the rest of the year.

But does the Minister——

The Senator has had 20 minutes. Please permit me to make my reply. Senator West talked about the rota system. I have no power to tell a taximan when he should work. I am amused at the suggestion that it is a private enterprise but that the State should have the right to tell them what to do. State intervention is not welcomed by private enterprise. I have no power to regulate the time taximen work.

I will give figures of the numbers of taxis here. They endeavour to operate when they make the most money. A taximan is entitled to have a decent living just as much as a Member of this House. The taximan who is operating and giving a good service should be encouraged and we should not encourage others to enter that service who will not be prepared to carry out the minimum regulations which are laid down. Until the regulations were put in by my predecessor and continued by me, the standard of taxi service which was being given was not as good as it now is. The type of taxi which is being introduced now into the business must be not more than two years old. The old rattle-trap which was to be seen in the streets of Dublin some time ago is gone.

The standard of cleanliness is laid down by my Department but it is the Garda who are responsible for insisting on this being carried out. If complaints are made they should be made to the Garda. Regarding the question of complaints in general, there are not so many of these. Complaints sometimes come from tourists. Complaints very often come from hotels, for instance, but it could happen that the people who are running the taxi service at the hotel had an arrangement, as they have in practically every city in the world, with a taxi or taxi service. If that taxi was not available they might not be very keen on going to a lot of trouble to look for another taxi elsewhere. This may be one of the causes of complaint.

With regard to the question of the co-op service, I am delighted to see the taximen forming more co-ops and running their own service. I do not see any reason at all why a third party should sit back and pick up the cream and pay as little as he can get away with to those who are operating the taxi service.

There seems to be a misunderstand-about the number of taxis in operation, and in fairness I should give the figures to the House. Dublin, which has a population of 750,000 approximately, has 1,437 taxis—522 persons per taxi. Glasgow has 1,000 persons per taxi—there is no question of a set figure with which one can compare— Leeds has 3,249 persons per taxi; Sheffield has 2,185 per taxi; Antwerp, 3,116; Stockholm, 625; Gottenburg, 956; Toronto, 1,000; Winnipeg, 625; London has 800 persons per taxi. Senator West referred to the good taxi service in London compared with here. There are 800 persons per taxi in London and 522 in Dublin. Birmingham has 5,476 persons per taxi; Liverpool, 1,812; Manchester, 1,686; Nottingham, 1,268; Belfast, 1,464 and Derry, 960 persons per taxi. In fact there are more taxis in Dublin in proportion to the population than in all of the other cities I have read out.

But is the service as good?

This again is the type of thinking; if you go abroad everything is better but if you come back to Ireland the services are worse. This is the sort of thinking with which I do not agree and I cannot agree. I think from my limited experience that the taxi service in Dublin is as good as can be expected.

There is one thing which is causing a certain amount of trouble—again the Garda are doing their best to cope with it—and which has become too prevalent. A person may go out with a taxi at night with his day's takings in his pocket, some bright boy will hire the taxi, bring him a little bit outside the city and take it from him. Then we hear people say: "Why do we not have taxis available all night? Why does every taximan in Dublin not line up in O'Connell Street even though he may get only one fare?" I cannot introduce a regulation which will say that taxis should ply between this hour and that hour—even if I could I would be very slow to do it—because it could mean that somebody with a taxi would get a stint which would turn up two fares for him and he would not stay very long in the business.

I know that the Dublin taxi service is not perfect. At the present time because of the big demand on it there is naturally more criticism of it. The ordinary reasonable person would agree that it would be a mistake to go back to the days when anybody who felt he would like to have a fling at it entered the taxi service, stayed in it for a while, got what he could out of it and then disappeared. There was no way of saying that there was a set number of taxis.

I share with Senator West the desire to have a good taxi service in this city but I believe every effort is being made by the very decent people who are operating the taxi service in this country—and that includes the co-op people—to produce the best possible service. I think they are doing reasonably well. I would ask those who are complaining about it to realise that if they were put in the same position they would probably not be inclined to do the things which the taximen have to do to give that service.

The Seanad adjourned at 10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 27th June, 1974.

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