Firstly, I propose to explain to Senators the main features of this proposed legislation. Having done so, I will then talk about various other aspects of youth employment, some of which extend outside the scope of my ministerial responsibilities.
When one comes to look at the broad subject of employment of young people in our society, it must be acknowledged that there is a scarcity of hard facts. The official statistics do not contain enough data about the employment experience of young people. While it may be true to say that the worst examples of exploitation of young people in employment relate to the last century, there is nevertheless evidence from intermittent complaints that all abuses have not been removed. From time to time my Department receive complaints about the employment of children and young persons over long hours and at times for low wages. There are also complaints about late night employment of young people. In the circumstances I have considered it desirable to give priority to the introduction of this Bill dealing with the conditions of employment of young people in advance of general legislation on hours of work and related subjects about which I have been consulting the social partners.
It may assist in understanding the general philosophy behind the legislation if I attempt to explain further in general terms the aims of the Bill. These could be summarised as follows:—
(1) To extend the scope of the legislative protection given to young people in employment.
(2) To raise the protective standards incorporated in the legislation in accordance with modern trends and international standards for the employment of young people.
(3) To improve the enforcement of legislative provisions relating to the employment of young people.
(4) To enlist the support of all sections of the community in the observance of this protective legislation.
(5) To increase the available information about the employment conditions of young people.
(6) To contribute towards awakening the interest of the community in the creation of a better working environment for our young people.
Coming to the detailed provisions of the Bill, I should firstly mention that under its definitions those in the 15 to 18 age group are regarded as young persons while those under 15 are deemed to be children. The term employee used in the Bill relates to both categories.
The provisions of the legislation will have very wide application and will cover young persons in almost all types of employment. There are limited exceptions in respect of a few categories of workers, where the nature of their activities would pose serious problems of application. These exceptions are confined to young persons employed as fishermen, light-house-keepers, out-workers, seafarers, and members of the Defence Forces, though I should add that these categories together with all others will be covered by section 4 which specifies the minimum age for employment. I am taking power to bring excluded categories within the scope of the legislation if this appears to be desirable at a future time.
As I have indicated already, there is a deficiency in the statistics available in this area. While such data cannot be related directly to the scope of the Bill, it has been estimated that approximately 65,000 young employees in the age group 15 to 18 years would be covered by its provisions. Many of these have already had the protection of the earlier statutes but approximately one third of that total will be brought within the scope of this protective legislation for the first time and the provisions of the Bill in relation to maximum hours, rest intervals and so forth will apply where previously there was no statutory protection.
While the extension of the coverage of the protective legislation to a greater number of young employees is a major improvement in itself, I should also mention that the various standards set out in the Bill have also been improved in favour of the young employee. Compared with the Conditions of Employment Acts, 1936 and 1944, which cover mainly industrial work, there are changes in relation to the minimum age for employment, maximum and normal working hours of young persons under 16 years and in the night work restrictions. The improvements are more marked when this legislation is compared with the Shops (Conditions of Employment) Acts, 1938 and 1942, covering employees in shops, hotels, restaurants and similar establishments. Here the changes relate to minimum age for employment, maximum and normal hours for all young employees and night work restrictions. I should also mention that under section 19, where the hours of work have to be reduced in order to comply with the provisions of the Bill, there would be no reduction permitted in the remuneration due to the employee.
Section 4 of the Bill provides that the employment of children under 15 years shall be generally prohibited. In setting the minimum age for employment at 15, the Bill removes the anomaly whereby the existing minimum age for employment is 14, although the school-leaving age has been raised to 15 years. I recognise that for young people at school, some familiarity with working environment could be an important educational experience. I was therefore disposed to grant a limited exception subject to strict conditions for the employment of children under the age of 15. My idea for this exception is contained in section 4 which permits children over 14 years to do light non-industrial work. In the discussions on the Bill it was suggested in the Dáil that instead of stipulating the age of 14 years it would be preferable if the Minister for Labour had the power to set the age by ministerial order. However I did not accept this suggestion because I felt that the choice of age for this limited exception was a very important one which should be made by the Oireachtas.
The limited exception in favour of children over 14 years permits them to be engaged on light non-industrial work during school term for up to two hours a day outside school hours and during holiday periods they may be engaged on such work up to seven hours a day subject to a maximum of 35 hours per week. The additional conditions are that the work must not be harmful to their health or normal development and must not prejudice their attendance or performance at school.
While the formula in the section of two hours daily during school term seems to me to be the most appropriate, I realise that there are diverse views on this question. In the debates in the Dáil it was suggested that alternatively there should be during school term a concentration at week-ends of the permitted working hours for children over 14. I have not finally made up my mind on that suggestion and I would welcome any views which Senators might wish to put forward in relation to it. In addition to that aspect of the subject, I have taken power to vary the provisions regarding working hours of children in the 14-15 age group subject to Affirmative Resolution by both Houses of the Oireachtas. If in the light of future experience it seems that a change would be warranted, I can put a proposal before both Houses and seek their approval to it.
Section 6 also deals with the minimum age for employment and contains a power to specify a higher minimum age for entry in respect of any work which might endanger the health or safety of young persons. This power, which would of course be exercised after consultation with the social partners, gives me a measure of flexibility in dealing with special situations. The provision is in line with the general thinking on the subject of the International Labour Organisation. I have no immediate plans to make use of this power but I would be willing to consider any proposals supported by adequate evidence which were put to me.
Section 5 requires employers to obtain proper evidence of age before they take children or young persons into employment. They are also required to keep records of ages, working times and rates of pay. An important addition was included in the section following consultations with youth organisations and the views expressed by Deputies in the Dáil. This is the requirement that employers must obtain the written permission of parents or guardians before they employ children under the school-leaving age.
On the basis of the case put to me I was prepared to include this additional requirement but I considered that it was unnecessary to have a similar requirement in relation to the 65,000 young persons in the 15-18 age bracket. These general requirements in regard to evidence of age and record-keeping have been strengthened to facilitate enforcement of the legislation. Contraventions by employers and complicity by parents or guardians will be offences. I expect that the application of these provisions will enable me to monitor the conditions of employment of young people more adequately and should the need arise I would be prepared to initiate further corrective measures.
Sections 7 and 8 deal with maximum working hours for young persons and section 9 covers their normal working hours. Normal working hours are those which an employee works before overtime payment becomes due. The maximum hours required is essentially a protective measure and constitutes an absolute maximum beyond which it is unlawful to permit the employees to work. I would like particularly to draw the attention of Senators to the more favourable provisions under both headings for young persons under 16 years.
I consider that these young people, undertaking their first experience of full-time employment, are deserving of special consideration and these provisions should help to assist in their transition into the working environment. There are provisions in section 7 and 9 for averaging hours within the overriding limits in accordance with the terms of collective agreements, employment regulation orders and registered employment agreements but I have not made any such provision in section 8 because it would, in my view, be inappropriate for young persons under 16 years.
The various levels of working hours specified in those three sections represent the best possible compromise following consultations with unions and employers. It will be noted particularly in section 7 that the overriding limits in relation to the maximum hours in a four-week period and the maximum hours per year impose an additional constraint which must be complied with. Indeed the annual maximum limit means effectively that maximum hours must be cut on average to 43 per week for a young person in the 16-18 age group. There can of course be differences of opinion as to whether these are the right levels to specify in the Bill at this point of time.
I consider, having heard a variety of conflicting opinions, that these levels are reasonable. However I have taken power by affirmative Resolution of the Oireachtas to vary the hours specified in sections 7, 8 and 9 in order to take account of future developments in the trends of working hours in employment generally.
Section 10 provides that time spent with the consent of the employer on vocational training during normal working hours shall be deemed to be hours worked by the young person for the purpose of calculating the maximum working hours. I should mention that in the discussions in the Dáil a totally different concept was raised and I should like to explain the distinction in order to avoid any confusion. The other concept discussed related to the right to paid leave for undertaking vocational or training courses solely at the choice of the employee.
This is a totally different concept which would be outside the scope of this Bill. It has been the subject of a convention and recommendation adopted by the annual conference of the International Labour Organisation in June, 1974. These instruments define paid educational leave and leave granted to a worker for educational purposes for a specified period during working hours, with adequate financial entitlements.
The member states of the ILO, which feel able to adopt these particular instruments, would be required to formulate appropriate policies in this area. In common with the other member countries Ireland will be examining these suggestions to see to what extent their implementation would be practicable.
I should however emphasise that the proposals contained in the two ILO instruments would have wide-ranging implications in regard to the assessment of potential demand for such facilities, the evaluation of the capacity of our education and training systems to provide such facilities on a wide scale, the financing arrangements, together with related questions such as the integration of these proposals with existing policies in regard to employment, education, training and hours of work. Other questions would arise in regard to the forms of participation by public authorities, social partners and education and training authorities.
Until all these implications have been examined in detail by the various Government Departments and agencies involved, it would be quite impossible to indicate what our approach to these international instruments would be. This is quite clearly an instance where there must be adequate preparatory investigation before we could embark on this new area of activity.
Sections 11 and 12 deal with intervals for rest. Following a period of five hours work, an employee must be allowed an un-paid half-hour break. Before he commences overtime expected to last more than one-and-a-half hours, the employee must get an un-paid break of a half-hour. This particular break may be varied by agreement provided the revised break is not less than 15 minutes and is paid for. In addition, an employee, who works more than five days in a week and more than three hours on a Sunday, must be allowed a 24-hour break without pay every seven days. In this respect, a similar but more restrictive provision in the 1936 Act will continue to apply to young employees engaged on industrial work.
While the provisions in sections 11 and 12 of the Bill set out the minimum legislation standards, they do not debar the negotiation of better terms in regard to rest intervals under the collective bargaining system.
There are restrictions in sections 13 and 14 on the employment of children and young persons at night. The enactment of these provisions will enable us to ratify two ILO conventions on night work.
It will be noted that under the terms of section 13 a young person must stop work at 10 p.m. and must also be given a 12 hours overnight break. I have received representations from employer interests that a later hour than 10 p.m. should be specified. In addition there was some discussion during the Dáil debates as to whether I was choosing the right time for stopping work. However, no specific suggestions about alternative times were put forward. I consider that the hours chosen are reasonable both in relation to our own requirements and to international standards. Nevertheless, I would welcome any views that Senators might wish to put forward. I consider however that we must be rather careful about what we do in this regard so as to avoid possible exploitation of young people in the course of late night employment.
Senators will have noted that I am taking powers in section 16 to grant exemptions by regulations or licence. Having regard to the previous experience of administering similar protective legislation and to the various problems suggested to me by the employers and unions in relation to general hours of work legislation, I consider it essential to have some such powers provided to ensure the Bill will be a flexible instrument of social reform.
Under the provisions of the section I am required to hold consultations with the appropriate workers' and employers' organisations. Following the debates in the Dáil, an additional subsection was inserted with my agreement which will require me to publish notice of my intention to make exemption regulations and to allow a period during which interested persons may make representations. I think it can be said that there will be ample scope for consultations with all interested bodies prior to the granting of exemptions. For my part I should make it clear that such powers of modification would be used only in cases where I am convinced by the evidence presented that special measures are essential.
I should like to direct attention particularly to subsection 5 of this section. This permits of licensing arrangements by me in consultation with the Minister for Education which would meet the requirements of combined schemes for work experience and education or training. There are few such schemes in existence at present since the general concept is at its infancy and many adjustments have to be made to perfect such arrangements. Nevertheless, the subsection will facilitate such desirable developments in the future. Following publication of the Bill it was suggested to me by youth organisations and people involved in child welfare that a special provision along these lines should be made. The subsection recognises that, though the school leaving age is 15, the idea of introducing selected non-academically inclined children to carefully controlled experience of employment before finally leaving school would have much to commend it. The subsection will ensure that the provisions of the Act do not inadvertently constitute a barrier to the development of such schemes. I will refer later to certain other developments which could influence the active promotion of these schemes.
The task of enforcing this legislation would be undertaken by the inspectors of my Department. Over the past year I have increased the number of staff engaged on such enforcement. Section 26 deals with the powers given to inspectors in the execution of their duties and is similar to provisions in other legislation.
Sections 21 to 23 deal with prosecutions and penalties. In line with a general consensus among Deputies during the debates in the Dáil, the penalties have been set at £100 for a first offence with £10 per day for a continuing offence. For a second or subsequent offence the fine would not exceed £200 plus £20 per day.
I would ask Senators to read these provisions concerning prosecutions and penalties along with those sections 5 and 25 concerning evidence of age and the keeping of records. From such examination I think it would be clear that I have considerably strengthened the formal provisions related to the enforcement of this legislation. Nevertheless, I do not in any respect underrate the magnitude of the task which will be involved and I would therefore welcome the co-operation of all sections of the community in ensuring that the very necessary provisions of this legislation will be observed.
I intend to monitor closely the additional data on employment conditions of young people which can be obtained under the mechanisms created by the Bill and if necessary I will be ready to bring forward proposals for additional legislative measures. Following enactment of the legislation I also intend to arrange for publicity material setting out its provisions in simple terms. This will be made widely available so that all sections of the community may join me in what I hope will be a voluntary co-operative effort towards ensuring observance of this law.
You will have noted that power has been given to me under various sections to alter the standards set down there. This gives a necessary measure of flexibility to the legislation which is desirable so that it can be adapted to changing hours of work and other conditions of employment. I have nevertheless been conscious that the Oireachtas must play its appropriate role in relation to major alterations. Consequently there is a requirement in section 27 that drafts of orders in relation to major alterations in the sections dealing with non-application of the Act, hours of employment of children, maximum hours and normal hours must be laid before each House of the Oireachtas with a view to securing their approval by means of affirmative resolution. In this way, it will not be necessary to introduce amending legislation on each occasion when a change would be warranted.
The rights of parents and guardians in regard to their children in employment were discussed at some length when the Bill was before the Dáil. In response to representations by Deputies and by youth organisations, I have ensured that the specific role of parents and guardians is recognised in two sections. In section 22 they had the option to initiate proceedings in relation to an alleged offence under the Act. In section 17 their right to bring proceedings for recovery of money due to an employee is also recognised. On the other hand I should point out that parents and guardians have serious obligations under sections 4 and 5 of the Bill in relation to the minimum age for employment requirements, the giving of their written permission for the employment of children and the correctness of age evidence produced. I confidently expect that parents and guardians by playing their parts in these matters will help to ensure that the employment of young people is in accordance with the terms of this protective legislation.
Early on, I acknowledged that there were many aspects of youth employment which, though important, were outside the scope of this Bill. The discussions during the Dáil debates and the representations which I received from interested groups indicated that one of my aims, namely, arousing interest in the employment of young people, was being achieved. Many of the subjects raised in these discussions were not merely outside the scope of the Bill but even went beyond my own ministerial responsibilities.
In response to the considerable interest already around concerning the diverse aspects of youth employment, I have already indicated my intention of holding a seminar which will examine the whole range of problems associated with youth and employment. I intend to invite a wide range of interested groups to be present. I would hope that the participants from their specialised experience will be able to give an indication of the range of problems and the possible priorities. The seminar or meeting may also be able to develop ideas concerning the kind of co-ordinating links needed between the efforts of Government agencies and private organisations.
One of the topics raised during the Dáil debate on the Bill reflected a further idea of mine. This was a suggestion that an advisory committee would be set up representative of various interests. This suggestion was related to the specific scope of the Bill but my own idea is that the advisory committee would have wider terms of reference which would cover other aspects of the youth employment question. I do not wish to comment in more detail on the possible functions of the advisory committee until after I have had the benefit of the views of the interested groups at the proposed meeting which I referred to earlier. However, I consider it desirable to give Senators a full outline of my thinking for further action in this general area.
Finally, I should say that I would welcome the suggestions of Senators on any aspects of the Bill which they consider might be improved. If there is general agreement in favour of such changes, I would be happy to agree to their being made. In taking the Bill generally, I consider that it represents a positive legislative advance in the conditions of employment of children and young persons. I would, therefore, recommend the Bill to the House and look forward to the passage of all its Stages.