Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 29 Jul 1975

Vol. 82 No. 10

Turf Development Bill, 1975: Committee and Final Stages.

Section 1 agreed to.

SECTION 2.

Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill".

Mr. McGlinchey

Now that we propose giving extra money to Bord na Móna I feel that the board, with this money, should expand their activities in a certain direction. I certainly agree with everything that has been said about Bord na Móna in the tremendous work they have done. The work has been so good that the time has come when the Minister should give them responsibility for all bog development, irrespective of whether it is for their own operations or not. Not alone should they be looking at the turf production they require but they should encourage bog development in the private sector as well.

A lead is required because of the international situation and the oil crisis, for the production of turf from private bogs. People should be given encouragement to cut their own turf. A system of grants could be operated by Bord na Móna. They are the most qualified body to do this. This is something that I would like the Minister to give particular attention to. Apart from Bord na Móna's own operations, there is no lead as far as turf production is concerned. Possibly, in the past this was not necessary. It was very annoying that the Minister should tell us in his closing speech about the cost of oil production in the future. It will be very necessary in future that a body such as Bord na Móna should not alone expand their own operations but encourage as many people in the private sector as possible to engage in this activity.

I accept what the Minister has just said that with the extra money given to Bord na Móna they must first consider economic bogs. This is a realistic approach. However I think the Minister will accept there are many bogs in this country and, in particular, in my own county that may not be considered economical in so far as Bord na Móna's operations are concerned. They, nevertheless, have a very important role to play in turf production. The people who own these bogs and use them should be given some financial encouragement by way of grant to buy small machinery to develop the bogs not for commercial use but to sell turf in their own neighbourhoods. Great use could be made of these bogs without having to get involved in a major scheme.

An Cathaoirleach

I hesitate to intervene but the Senator is speaking at some length on this topic which is essentially a question concerning the functions of Bord na Móna and certainly it would have been, shall we say, perhaps closer to the Bill on Second Stage. On Committee Stage on section 2 I would be glad if the Senator did not speak at length.

Mr. McGlinchey

I am grateful to the Chair for allowing me to make the point. I think I have made my point.

Mr. P. Barry

This allows Bord na Móna to increase their borrowing from the existing limits of £28 million up to £60 million. In fact, this difference is already being allocated to the third development programme and some other small contingencies. I know that private developers of bogs can hire machinery, co-operatively or individually, from the sugar company to do this but I will discuss what the Senator has said with Bord na Móna, in the context of not wishing to have their attention diverted from the third development programme. They have set themselves a very tight deadline for this and I do not want them in any way to dilute their energies when achieving that deadline.

Mr. Dolan

Have the Government any plans to inject money into Bord na Móna in case they are not able to do what is expected here?

Mr. P. Barry

We are doing that for a specific purpose now.

Mr. Dolan

I also want to mention —I think the Minister also mentioned the point—the need for public buildings, schools, hospitals and so on to get back to using native fuel and, in particular, Bord na Móna fuel and encouraging the development of the smaller bogs, as Senator McGlinchey said. That is tremendously important and it will make the people of this country oil conscious. It will be far better propaganda than all the Minister can say regarding the oil crisis and the price of oil if it is seen that the Government are in earnest, that they are going around seeking out every little piece of worthwhile bog in the country and that they are preventing the foresters from planting it over. That is very important.

Mr. P. Barry

That is quite true. I should like to see as much turf as possible used in public institutions. As regards the point made by Senator Dolan of giving extra money to Bord na Móna to allow them to engage in other activities, I know that there is a school of thought that asks why do the Government come back frequently to the House of the Oireachtas looking for an increase in the borrowing limits of various State companies. In this case we are increasing it from £28 million to £60 million. It is right that State companies should put specific proposals to the Government and that the Government should come into both Houses of the Oireachtas frequently to have the affairs of the particular State companies debated. If, say, we decided to increase from £28 million to £90 million Bord na Móna's limits for borrowing, it might be another five years before Bord na Móna would be discussed here and in the meantime they could spend this money just on my say so and the Minister for Finance's say so as to how they should do it. It is far better that we should come in here frequently and allow the Deputies elected by the people and the Senators to have their say on what should be the correct attitude of Bord na Móna on this. It is much more desirable than giving them large sums of money infrequently and allowing them do as they like with them.

Mr. McGlinchey

I fully agree with what the Minister has just said. Earlier he stated that all the money sought under section 2 has been earmarked for the board's third programme. I certainly accept that this money should be devoted to this purpose. If the Minister found a volume of support for the suggestion I made a few minutes ago that the board's activities should be expanded to accept responsibility for all turf production in this country, I take it that he would come back again to the Oireachtas seeking extra moneys for this purpose?

Mr. P. Barry

Of course if extra money was required I would have to come back.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 2 to 6, inclusive, agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.