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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 Jul 1976

Vol. 84 No. 13

Brussels Summit: Statement by Taoiseach.

With your permission, a Leas-Chathaoirleach, I would like to make a statement.

Since the Paris Summit of December, 1974, it has been the practice of the heads of Government of the member countries of the European Communities to meet three times a year. The purpose of these meetings is to ensure the development and overall cohesion of the activities of the Communities and of the work of political co-operation which is carried on separately from the ordinary business of the Communities under the Treaties.

I need not say that the meetings which have been held have been varied in their effectiveness. Some have been highly successful—like that in Dublin in March, 1975, dealing with the British renegotiation of the terms of entry to the Communities. Others have not been notable for substantive conclusions. However, I think it would be a mistake, simply on this account, to underrate the significance of these meetings—between the heads of the Government of some of the most powerful nations in the world, working towards the common goal of European Union, in accordance with understandings and procedures laid down in the founding and accession Treaties.

Irrespective of views on the nature and purpose of these meetings, I think that the Council meeting held in Brussels on 12th and 13th July was notable for its effectiveness and brevity. In a meeting time of little more than a working day it reached decisions or orientations for decisions of great importance to this country and for the future of Europe. It was one of the more satisfactory Councils, so far as we are concerned, both in its tone and conclusions.

The first decision of importance related to direct elections to the European Parliament. Obviously many countries have a direct and vital interest in this. The allocation of seats to the different countries of the Community was the subject of a number of different proposals by the Parliament itself, by the Irish Government, the British, the French and the Luxembourg Presidency. The accord reached yesterday gives this country 3.66 per cent of the total of number of seats—the same approximately as in the original Parliament proposals. But this is not the main point. The benefit lies in the fact that instead of ten members, as at present, or 13 under the Parliament's proposals, we will now have 15—and, because of the increase, we will be better able to serve on various committees and in the work of the Parliament itself. The numbers allocated to other countries are 81 each for France, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom, 25 for the Netherlands, 24 for Belgium, 16 for Denmark and six for Luxembourg.

The Government will be considering in the next few months the question of constituencies, methods of elections and other technical issues. It seems likely that the first elections will be held in May or June, 1978, as I originally proposed at the Paris summit in December, 1974.

There was considerable discussion at the Council of the situation in Northern Ireland. We urged the case for a minimum of three seats for the area. The British proposal, involving 78 seats for each of the four larger countries, which provided the main basis of discussion at the meeting, was amended to increase this figure to 81, substantially to enable that Government to allocate a third seat to Northern Ireland. This makes it possible to make arrangements for the Northern minority to be represented in the European Parliament, together with representatives of the majority, according to their respective voting strengths.

Fisheries was the second item of major importance to Ireland. There are two principles underlying our approach. The first is the need for conservation. The future of the industry is being undermined by gross overfishing off our shores, which is rapidly destroying fish stocks. This depletion is not confined to stocks such as herring which we have known for some years were declining. As I mentioned at the European Council last week, information emerged at a meeting of the North-East Atlantic Fisheries Commission in Portugal to the effect that in the past two years one non-member country—the Soviet Union—took over 500,000 tons of mackerel in the waters around Ireland, Scotland and southern England, the so-called western area. Because of this the Commission's scientists consider that not more than 250,000 tons or so should be taken by all countries in this area in 1977 in the interests of the conservation of the stock.

Effective conservation measures are now extremely urgent. The quota system administered by the North-East Atlantic Commission has not, regrettably, proved effective in conserving stocks in the North Atlantic area. I am disturbed at the fact that at last week's meeting of the Commission agreement was not reached on national quotas in a number of very important North Atlantic fisheries in 1977. The issue is further complicated by the stated intention of some States, including America and Canada, to declare an exclusive economic zone of 200 miles shortly. This action would mean that countries which have traditionally fished in those waters would soon move to other areas, including the areas around the countries of the Community.

The second principle underlying our approach concerns the place and potential of fishing in our economy. Fishing provides a bigger share of GNP and employment in Ireland than in other Community countries, with one exception. It is, moreover, especially important to the poorest and least developed parts of Ireland, and thus has a special significance from a regional policy viewpoint. I made these points at the heads of Government meeting.

Senators will note that the Council issued a statement indicating their determination to protect the legitimate interests of Community fishermen. To this end, the meeting decided to invite the Council of Ministers, at its meeting on 20th July, 1976, to give consideration to a declaration of intent on the extension of fishing limits of the Community to 200 miles.

The question of coastal bands and their extent within the 200-mile exclusive zone will obviously be the subject of further discussion within the Community. I made clear this country's vital concern with a coastal band of up to 50 miles around our coasts.

Terrorism is a difficult subject for obvious technical, legal and political reasons. The Council declared that recent events have again shown that no country, no people and no government can expect to be spared from acts of terrorism, kidnapping and hijacking unless all countries agree to effective counter-measures. The Council asked the Ministers for Justice of the Nine to draw up a Convention on which the Nine will commit themselves to extraditing or prosecuting terrorists and will invite other countries to join in it. I do not wish to go into further detail except to say that I regard the outcome of the meeting on this point as highly satisfactory. In particular, we gained recognition by the nine heads of Government of the principal of trial in the country where a terrorist is caught— as under the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act—as an alternative to extradition.

There was general agreement on the appointment of Mr. Roy Jenkins to succeed Mr. Ortoli as President of the Commission. His appointment will come into effect on 1st January, 1977, but the fact that he is designated now as Mr. Ortoli's successor will enable him to have a say in the appointment of his fellow-Commissioners. This will obviously make for a better Commission and is fully in accord with the proposals I made in my memorandum to the Council before the Rome Summit last December, and the similar proposals of Mr. Tindemans in January last, that member governments should first agree by common accord on a President-designate. I understand that Mr. Jenkins will be visiting the capitals of the Nine to discuss relevant matters.

There was a full discussion on the economic situation in the Community and the world. The constructive results of the recent tripartite conference between governments, employers and unions were generally welcomed. Several speakers emphasised that governments alone could not control the economic situation—they must have co-operation with employers and trade unions in decision-making. Stress was laid on better co-operation between the social partners. I supported this analysis and welcomed the start of a consensus at European level with unions and employers as helpful to similar situations on a national level.

The Dutch Presidency has made certain proposals designed to strengthen the internal economic and financial coherence of the Communities and has suggested that the medium-term economic programme of the Communities should be made to play a role in a periodic review of national programmes. The proposals also referred to economic guidelines for member countries and to exchange rate developments. I emphasised the need to ensure that any guidelines should take full account of the real problems, particularly those of a structural nature, which impede progress towards a more cohesive Common Market. I said that otherwise we would find that we are setting ourselves impossible objectives. With other heads of Government I supported the suggestion for a full discussion of the matter, particularly the Dutch proposals, in the Council of Finance Ministers. This, despite certain Press reports to the contrary. was the extent of the discussion and the scope of the decisions on the economic issues before the Council.

As Senators are aware, a conference of seven countries took place recently in Puerto Rico and discussed matters, some of which were within the competence of the Community—without a Community presence as such. There was agreement at the European Council that in future there should be consultation before any similar conference especially on how Community interests will be defended there and, where Community competences are involved, that Community procedures and obligations would be respected.

At a meeting of officials about the same time as the European Council, which discussed the opening of negotiations for Greek membership, we secured an understanding for which we had been pressing for some months past, that the resources of the Community would be expanded in an appropriate manner to take account of the admission of Greece. We regard this as a very important precedent for any future expansion of the Community.

I regard the outcome of the European Council as a success for Europe and indeed for this country. We achieved the go-ahead for direct elections at the time we proposed, 15 seats for this State, and an additional seat for Northern Ireland; the decision to move towards the establishment of a 200-mile exclusive Community fishing zone; the recognition for the first time in a European forum of the principle of trial in the country where a terrorist is caught, as an alternative to extradition: agreement on the new President of the Commission and acceptance of his role in relation to the choice of other members; constructive discussions on the economic situation; a decision with respect to any future Puerto Rico-type Conferences; and the understanding that the resources of the Community will be expanded appropriately in relation to Greek membership.

In accordance with practice, I shall arrange to have laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas in due course copies of formal declarations or statements made at the meeting.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

As this is a rather unique occasion in the Seanad it might be of assistance to the House if I outlined the following procedure. As there is no motion or Bill before the House the statement by the Taoiseach cannot be made the occasion for debate. As regards the number of statements, if any, which may be allowed neither the Standing Orders nor the practice of the Seanad provide any guidance. However, I have noticed that in such circumstances in the Dáil the Ceann Comhairle has discretion to allow further statements from a spokesman nominated by a party in Opposition. Having considered the matter carefully I have come to the conclusion that I should allow the Leader of the Opposition and a Senator nominated by the Independent Senators, whose name is communicated to me, to make a statement. I should emphasise that such statement should be fairly brief.

I shall be fairly brief. First of all, to go through the essentials in the Taoiseach's statement as far as the Fianna Fáil group in the Seanad are concerned, we totally welcome the decision at the Summit to initiate direct elections to the European Parliament. We have always felt very strongly—indeed this view is I think shared generally across the board among all parties elected to the Houses of the Oireachtas—that direct elections will bring a sense of participation on the part of the people of our country in the whole area of the European involvement, and that the heretofore nominated system from political parties has lacked that special involvement on the part of the people who actually go to a polling station, record their choice, vote for people.

I have always felt very strongly, as a member of the Committee of the European Parliament concerned with processing the whole aspect of European direct elections that has now been finalised by the Summit, that this actual personal involvement on the part of the people of Europe was the basic cement in the whole structure. I feel it will be so and that it will be the real step in making the European Community mean something as far as the people of the Community are concerned and the people of our nation are concerned. In my view it is all important to get this off the ground. It is a very excellent step that has been processed a little bit ahead of time, indeed it is an argument for having Summit conferences that we are having this in 1978 because some two years ago the thinking was that we might not have it for 1980. We will have it now, hopefully, mid-summer 1978.

As regards our 15 seats I will not raise the point one way or the other. We are getting what we deserve, no more, no less. We are getting 3.66 per cent, which out of 410 seats represents the very same percentage as originally recommended by the Committee of the European Parliament. That is all right and I do not propose to make any point about whether we should have had any more or not.

The question of fisheries is a very important aspect, to which the Taoiseach rightly referred. I thought he might have mentioned the regional importance of fisheries. Our strong point along with Britain, who is also seeking to get a 50 mile band within the 200 mile limit, is the regional consideration. Britain will be seeking it, particularly in regard to Scotland.

We should be pushing it very strongly on regional considerations. These particular regional considerations that apply to the north-west of Ireland, the western part of Ireland, the south-western part of Ireland and to the whole western coast of Scotland are considerations that do not apply to any other present member state. They would apply if Norway was in as well. There is a very strong argument on regional considerations for getting this 50 mile band. It is all very well to talk about regional policy, regional considerations and regional funds but here is a practical way to help a regional area through the development of our fisheries, especially the small and medium sized fishermen who operate from Kerry to the Hebrides. It is on that basis that we should pitch our argument. I note that it is not mentioned in the Taoiseach's speech.

It is there.

I am glad it is there. I failed to see it but certainly greater emphasis should be placed on this one. Regional considerations is our strong point in pushing the case in regard to the 50 mile band.

In regard to the economy as a whole, I feel that the Taoiseach's speech is on weak ground. The economic situation gets a half paragraph in the Taoiseach's statement. Here we are dealing with something very fundamental where we are out of line with every other member of the Community at the present time. In various ways all the countries in the EEC other than ourselves are tackling the inflation problem, the prices problem and the incomes problem. We are dragging our heels in this area. This is an area that requires political leadership of the first kind that has heretofore been lacking. While the rest of the Community will have inflation rates curbed to under 10 per cent we are running into an inflation rate nearing 20 per cent. That is the crude and cruel situation facing our economy at the present time vis-a-vis the other economies in the European Community.

I feel that the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance are both hiding from the public the fundamental fact that if we are going to solve our economic problems we will require aid from the Community. If we require aid from the Community we will have to observe Government budgetary disciplines that we have not observed heretofore by reason of a profligate attitude on the part of the Government.

I want to quote from the Report of the European Parliament of the 7th July, 1976, page 182, when I had a question down about the Irish economic position within the Community. The reply was given by Commissioner Gundelag reported on page 183: I quote from the second paragraph:

In the latest communication to the Council on Economic Policy to be followed in 1976 and in the budgets for 1977, the Commission recommended that Irish budgetary policy in 1977 should aim, in conjunction with an appropriate incomes and prices policy at a strict limitation on salaries, social transfers and other current expenditure together with possibly a modest increase in taxation. These guidelines are in line with those approved by the Council when fixing the conditions for economic policy in connection with the Community loan to Ireland. This loan demonstrates the Community's willingness to alleviate the Irish short-term economic problems.

That is in reference to the existing loan of £150 million.

If some guidelines will not be followed—here I am specially thinking of the pledge for an incomes and prices policy—other measures will need to be adopted. If not employment and the balance of payments shall be jeopardised.

What the Community is saying in that reply given by Commissioner Gundelach to me last Wednesday in effect is that if the Taoiseach and the Government do not put the national house in order, the Taoiseach, the Government and this country will not get the help needed to pull this country out of its very serious economic and financial problems.

In plain language, that is what that reply means. It was given to me last Wednesday by Commissioner Gundelach of Denmark, who is a responsible and senior member of the Commission emphasising the fact that this Government should get down to the practical business of running this country properly, that they can only run this country properly by observing very positive guidelines and disciplines which for the past three-and-a-half years they have completely ignored and that, as far as the European Community is concerned, the game is up.

He was giving that answer to a member of the party who opposed the Banks Bill.

That is such a petty comment that I do not propose to go down that cul-de-sac. I am engaged in a statesman-like exercise with the Taoiseach of the day. He and I know that we must follow these guidelines and observe these disciplines. If this is not done and if the required political leadership is not given to ensure that the environment is right for such measures, that such guidelines can be adopted and effective action can be taken, we are into a very catastrophic situation as far as the future economic and social development of our community is concerned. These are the realities. I am sure the Taoiseach is aware of them.

It is a question of political will. The Government do not appear to have the political will to exercise the type of attitude that I am advocating. If they do not have the political will, then the answer is to get out. That is the fundamental democratic answer to all situations where government by paralysis develops. If government by paralysis develops and if the people in charge of Government become paralysed in regard to taking the appropriate action that is needed, then there is a place to go. There is always a rest home to go to in Opposition and there are always people willing to take over and to take action. What is needed at present is the political will to take positive action.

I welcome this opportunity of responding to the Taoiseach's statement following the European Council. As you have ruled, there can only be one Independent speaker this afternoon and I should like to thank my fellow Independents for allowing me to fulfil this role. Obviously I do not speak for them but I do speak from their ranks.

I do not share the Taoiseach's enthusiasm for the outcome of this European Council. He has proclaimed it as a success for Europe and a success for Ireland. To some extent success depends on your expectation. If your expectations are very low you can then rate any decisions taken as being a success. In that context the outcome could be looked upon with a certain qualified approval. However, on examination, the Taoiseach's statement does not show that the European Council made significant decisions of key importance either to Europe or, more specifically, to this country.

I should like to refer to the development of the European Council. The Taoiseach has referred to it. He referred to the fact that it now meets three times a year and that some meetings, such as the so-called Dublin Summit, which finalised the renegotiation by Britain of its terms of entry to the EEC, are regarded as successful whereas other meetings— for example, the meeting in April— were most unsuccessful. Whether successful or unsuccessful, the development of the European Council is bad for this country and bad for the Community in general. It is a body which purports to be an institution of the Community, but it is not a true Community institution. It is an inter-governmental institution in which there is no proper set agenda, in which the big powers predominate and in which there is all the aura of inter-governmental big-country decisions being taken in the context of what purports to be a Community institution. This sort of development is not in Ireland's interest as a small member of the EEC. Far from supporting the further development of the European Council we should be trying to bring that body within the normal procedures of a Council of Ministers. This would allow the Heads of State and Prime Ministers to attend a meeting of the Council of Ministers where they would not just take "political orientations", where they would take Community decisions, where they record those decisions, and where those decisions are in the interests of the Community and not in the narrow short-term self-interest of the four larger countries in a forum dominated by those larger countries.

I do not welcome the emphasis placed on the success of a European Council as justifying this body. It should be examined critically as intergovernmental in form and as lacking a Community base and a Community identity which undermines the position of a small country such as Ireland and undermines the Community interest in general.

Turning to the first matter which the Taoiseach referred to—the question of direct elections—like Senator Lenihan, I welcome the fact that it was possible to come to a decision on the allocation of seats, although it was clear that the real negotiation was going on between the big powers, which is part of the context of a European Council. It was not really a Community decision. It was a decision between the big powers as to what they would agree to. The Taoiseach is right that it is a breakthrough for the European Parliament and that he can be reasonably satisfied with the combination of 15 seats for Southern Ireland and three seats for the North of Ireland. It was rather shocking that the question of representation for Northern Ireland had to be negotiated at that very late stage; that there was a lack of appreciation that unless Northern Ireland got at least three seats there would not be representation of the two communities at the European level—representation of the minority. It is striking that there was not the political understanding of this at a much earlier stage and an assurance that there would be adequate representation of the two communities from Northern Ireland. A decision on direct elections is only a very small step, the European Parliament still lacks legislative power. It still lacks real control over decision-making, either in the Commission or in the European Council. It still lacks a key place in the overall structure of the Community. It is a small positive step. Now it really depends on the sort of follow-through, both in this country and in the other member states.

I was glad that the Taoiseach made reference to the fact that the Government will be considering in the next few months the question of constitu encies, methods of election and other technical issues. I hope this implies that our approach will be on the basis of defined constituencies rather than on the basis of some list system for the whole country. There would be an immense value in having regional representation linked to the European Parliament and a development of that sort of infrastructure in our political system.

The Taoiseach referred to the question of fisheries as being an item of major importance for Ireland. Nobody in this House would disagree with him. He spoke about the two principles underlying our approach: the need for conservation and our very substantial dependence on the potential of fishing to our economy. But he did not say that good decisions had in fact been taken in relation to fishing. He said that the question of extending the Community's fishing limits to 200 miles had been deferred to a meeting of the Council of Ministers later this month. It looks as though the Community will, as other large states have done, decide on a unilateral basis to extend the economic zone to 200 miles. But what about the key issue of protection of Ireland's fishing industry? That has not been safeguarded and has not been guaranteed. Indeed, the phrase at the end of that section is an extremely oblique one: "I made clear this country's vital concern with coastal band of up to 50 miles around our coasts." But what was the reaction to that? There was no commitment given. Should we not examine our own consciences in this regard? Have we done our home work on our potential of fishing? To what extent are we credible when we say we want a 50 mile exclusive zone? Are we able to fish 50 miles out? Do we know what the potential is? Have we geared ourselves to be credible to the Germans, the French and the British when we argue for an exclusive 50 mile zone; or are we coming in on the coattails of Britain and trying to let them make the running for us instead of being quite sure that we will argue coherently and authoritatively for our fishing industry, specifically related to the regional context, as Senator Lenihan said?

The Russian robbers are being stopped.

Hopefully, yes, there will be better conservation. I agree, there may be a unilateral extension to 200 miles with the result that others will be policing our area to ensure that there is no exploitation by the Russians. The next matter is terrorism. The reference by the Taoiseach to this is brief to the point of being cryptic. It is rather difficult to understand the precise nature of the discussion which took place between the nine Heads of Governments. I do not agree that it would, in principle, be desirable to have the concept or principle of trial in a country where a terrorist is caught, as under the Criminal Law (Jurisdiction) Act, as an alternative to extradition. That would undermine the civil liberties interest. It would undermine the protection of the individual concerned. I would prefer a system where the types of offences for which extradition could be obtained between countries did not allow an exception for "terrorist" acts, in other words, it would be better to narrow down the types of offences for which a country will not extradite. We should not extend the principle where a person can be prosecuted where caught rather than where the act was purported to be committed and where the evidence would be. There is not enough in the statement by the Taoiseach to get the full sense of it but I do not accept that the principle is a good one to extend at Community level.

I welcome the fact that there has been explicit reference to Mr. Roy Jenkins as the new President of the Commission although I think this is a watered-down version of what had been intended. Indeed, Mr. Tindemans had proposed in his report on European union the creation of the position of president of the Commission as a key person in choosing the rest of the members of the Commission in order to heighten the political role of the Commission. All we know now is that Mr. Jenkins will be consulted when he visits the capitals "to discuss relevant matters." Presumably, he will come to Dublin and have discussions with the Government. I would urge the Government to be prepared to give a lead in ensuring that whoever goes to the Commission from Ireland next January will be somebody of considerable calibre, chosen after due consultation with Roy Jenkins to form part of a homogeneous, effective, political commission which can keep Europe on a right course at this very difficult point.

The Taoiseach then referred to the economic situation. His statement here lacks credibility in particular because he refers to the "constructive results" of the recent tripartite conference between Governments, employers and unions, which he welcomes. That particular tripartite conference itself lacked credibility because it agreed on achieving full employment by 1980. There was an underlying cynicism in this approach, indeed, there was a lack of substance in a one-day meeting of that sort approaching the very difficult problems of ensuring comparable rates of employment between the different member states. I do not know what is meant by a reference to "economic guidelines for member countries and to exchange rate developments". In the debate on the Appropriation Bill today there has been enough gloom to make one wonder to what extent that proposal is a real proposition for this country.

I shall be brief about the other points. The Puerto Rico conference, although referred to, seems to have been accepted by the small countries. They seem to accept that conferences like Rambouillet and Puerto Rico will continue, that the big powers will continue to exercise a solo role apart from the Community in these, after some sort of consultation with their Community partners beforehand. I regret this.

On the question of enlargement to admit Greece, the Taoiseach refers to the fact that we made the point at a meeting of officials that there should not be further enlargement unless the resources of the Community would be expanded "in an appropriate manner". That is too nebulous, too vague. We should be much more explicit. We should make it clear that there should not be further progress in expanding the community unless there is willingness politically, at the level of the Heads of Government, to ensure that the regional fund, the social fund, FEOGA Guidance and Guarantee Section are enlarged proportionately to keep pace with the further political enlargement of the Community. This is not just to safeguard Ireland's interests as, at present, the poorest member: it is to ensure that the Community continues as a viable entity.

For all these reasons, although I am glad that the Taoiseach has taken the opportunity of coming into the House to make a statement, I do not share his view that this European Council has been a success either for Ireland or for Europe. It has not been the dramatic failure that the European Council last April was, but, as a way of doing business, it is not in our interest to have continuous European councils of this sort. We should insist on operating through the ordinary meetings of the Council of Ministers, with power to take political decisions and we should also ensure that our position is more explicitly safeguarded at these meetings.

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