Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Dec 1976

Vol. 85 No. 9

Electricity Supply (Amendment) Bill, 1976: Committee Stage.

Section 1 agreed to.

SECTION 2

Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."

Mr. Deasy

I have a number of questions to ask on this section. I am going back to subsection (1) (a) and to the question Senator Dolan has raised about the Bill only applying to people who had already applied under the rural electrification scheme. Even if there was only one case of a child being discriminated against, I think it would justify the Bill being amended. I am sure there are dozens of cases throughout the country. It is unduly harsh to expect children who inherited a house and who probably have been living in that house all their lives to pay the full capital sum.

The Minister said in his summing up, if I heard him correctly, that in respect of new houses the owner will pay the first £300 and will be allowed the remainder in instalments—is that correct?

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): That does not arise on the Bill.

Mr. Deasy

Even if you applied that principle, it would be going some way towards meeting the problem of those people to whom I referred. We may take it that in the case of a change of ownership, the same criteria would apply as if a new house were in question?

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): Yes.

Mr. Deasy

Take, for instance, an old-age pensioner under this section who is quoted an installation fee of £2,000. Would that person have to pay first £700 under the heading of charges such as special charges, or does he pay anything at all? On the Second Stage I gave a hypothetical case of where the charge for installation might be £1,500 and I tried as best I could to explain what I considered to be the meaning of the Bill as regards its interpretation under the old Rural Electrification Act, then from March 31st, 1975, up to the present and from now on—three separate cases. The Minister said I was substantially right, but would he tell me where I was incorrect please?

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): I do not get the Senator's question clearly.

Mr. Deasy

Let us imagine that a person was quoted a fee of £1,500 under the old rural electrification scheme. My reading of the Bill would be that he would have to pay £750 of that as a lump sum, that the first £750 was paid in terms of special charges and fixed charges. When the subsidy was got rid of in March, 1975, then he would have had to pay the whole £1,500 as a lump sum, and under the new scheme he would have to pay the first £700 in terms of fixed charges and special charges but the remaining £800 would be a complete grant.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): Take the case of a man who was quoted a charge of £1,500 under the last rural electrification scheme. On a subsidised basis the cost of connecting his house was £1,500. He would be required to pay first a fixed charge, a special charge, whatever that was, and £750 of a lump sum. That man now will get his house connected on a fixed charge of £36.40 per year without any other payment. I do not like the word discrimination. There is no question of discrimination here. The child is not being discriminated against. All we are saying here is that we set out to cover anybody who was an applicant under the last scheme and who was quoted terms which included a capital contribution. That person will come under this scheme, but if he is dead and his children are living in the house they will come under the scheme. If the house has been sold and some new person is living in it, that new occupant would come under the scheme. In so far as everybody else in the country is concerned all we are doing for them is to say that if they are quoted a connection charge for a new house or for an old house which exceeds £300 they may pay the next £1,000 by instalments over three years of five years at their option. That is a big improvement, and it is something that I am satisfied from my local experience will be welcome. I hope that makes the position clear.

Mr. Deasy

That was not very clear from the statement the Minister made originally when he mentioned new houses.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): I hope I have clarified the position.

Mr. Deasy

Are there designated areas under the Rural Electrification Scheme?

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): No. The position is that the Rural Electrification Scheme applies to the entire country and this Bill applies to the entire country.

Mr. Deasy

Even an urban area? Would it be valid in an urban area?

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): The situation which we are trying to deal with in this Bill would hardly exist in an urban area.

Mr. Deasy

There could be some. Some urban areas cover thousands of acres and you could have an area one mile from a town in the urban area but still in the countryside.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): Certainly the Bill covers the people who applied but refused. The other arrangements cover the entire country, rural and urban.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 3 to 5, inclusive, agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.